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01-04-2012, 03:37 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
Do you mean the Flyers defense? The one that's 21st in the league in GA?

If you do then I disagree. They don't have any top end talent past Pronger who is out for the season and may be done completely. Although Timonnen is still decent, he is a billion years old. Carle is good but he is not top end talent

Even presently I'll take a top 5 of Staal-Girardi-McDonagh-MDZ-Sauer over their top 5 of Timmonen-Carle-Meszaros-Coburn-Lilja any day of the week. Doubt there are many who wouldn't
You don't think the GA stat has perhaps a little to do with their lackluster goalie situation? I think our D will be leaps and bounds better in a few years, but right now it's pretty even.

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01-04-2012, 03:42 PM
  #102
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I know you specifically weren't, but that's my point. So many people are becoming so ridiculously enamored with the idea of the home-growns that are producing, that they are making assertions that the Rangers are better off not even looking at Parise if he comes available, if it means having to ship out one of a Dubinsky-level player, because Dubinsky is a home-grown. If you get the opportunity to make a dramatic upgrade, while getting an in-their-prime top player at their position, which just happens to be the most glaring need on the current team, you do it, even if it ultimately costs one of the home-growns. The difference between a Dubinsky and a Kulemin/Patches/etc level player isn't enough to justify forcing Dubs out of a roster spot, but the difference between Dubinsky and Parise most definitely is, especially knowing that Dubinsky could bring in some good, cheap pieces or picks. It's not as if the Rangers would be giving these players up for nothing.
I don't think the problem is shipping out Dubinsky. Its the fact that the additional money that it would take to sign Parise over and above Dubinsky's contract is money that is needed to sign guys like Stepan, Del Zotto, Anisimov, etc...

It is one thing to ship out Dubinsky if it wouldn't have any impact on signing any of our other younger players. I would be all for that considering how good Parise is. Moving one player wouldn't be that big of a deal. However, if it means having to ship out Dubinsky, Stepan and Anisimov or Del Zotto for capspace to sign Parise then I'm not for that. Chemistry and being a close knit group goes a long way. Adding skill is always important and any chance to upgrade a teams skill at minimal cost is almost always a smart move. But to dismantle this team that is growing together for Parise is not something I would do and in my opinion is what would be required.

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01-04-2012, 03:45 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
It is one thing to ship out Dubinsky if it wouldn't have any impact on signing any of our other younger players. I would be all for that considering how good Parise is. Moving one player wouldn't be that big of a deal. However, if it means having to ship out Dubinsky, Stepan and Anisimov or Del Zotto for capspace to sign Parise then I'm not for that. Chemistry and being a close knit group goes a long way. Adding skill is always important and any chance to upgrade a teams skill at minimal cost is almost always a smart move. But to dismantle this team that is growing together for 1 player is not something I would do.
That right there is just it, though. The only reason for Dubinsky to move would be to free up the space for Stepan, Anisimov, Del Zotto, and the rest to get their raises. ONE of them would have to be sacrificed to get Parise on this team, but the rest would all safely get their raises. Parise isn't greater than all of Dubinksy+DStep+MDZ+Ani+Sauer, but individually? If one goes to get Parise, the team is miles better. Unfortunately for Dubinsky, he is the most likely candidate. He is streaky, he makes the most money, and he plays the position that Parise would be filling. Good player, but you make room for the great player at the expense of the good one.

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01-04-2012, 03:48 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Dfence033 View Post
That right there is just it, though. The only reason for Dubinsky to move would be to free up the space for Stepan, Anisimov, Del Zotto, and the rest to get their raises. ONE of them would have to be sacrificed to get Parise on this team, but the rest would all safely get their raises. Parise isn't greater than all of Dubinksy+DStep+MDZ+Ani+Sauer, but individually? If one goes to get Parise, the team is miles better. Unfortunately for Dubinsky, he is the most likely candidate. He is streaky, he makes the most money, and he plays the position that Parise would be filling. Good player, but you make room for the great player at the expense of the good one.
Thats the thing. It wouldn't just be Dubinsky. It would be Dubinsky and one or more of the other players I mentioned which is why I can see what people are saying. It would cost more then 4 million to bring in Parise that is where other players would have to be sacrificed because of their increasing contract demands.

I disagree with the sentiment of those who are saying "don't move dubi because he is a homegrown". It should be don't dismantle the team because they have grown together. They are two different things and again, I believe the latter would be what it takes (dismantling the team) to bring Parise in.

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01-04-2012, 06:31 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
You don't think the GA stat has perhaps a little to do with their lackluster goalie situation? I think our D will be leaps and bounds better in a few years, but right now it's pretty even.
I guess if you count the fact that Staal is not 100% and Sauer is out then maybe

Phily has been having goalie issues for seemingly forever now. How about they start looking at the way they play and their defense. A good defense makes bad goalies look good. Or at least decent

Anyway, a bad goalie doesn't account for the massive difference in GA between the two teams. If it was a 5, maybe 10 spot difference then it might be understandable. But we're 19 spots ahead of them.

And how is their defense offensively superior? Del Zotto is on pace for about the same amount of points as Timmonen. McDonagh is not too far off Carle. Girardi has more points than Meszaros. Sauer/Stralman/Eminger cancel out Coburn/Lilja, etc...

Pronger is a monster but he's 37, out for the season, and there is really no guarantee he is going to play next season because of his recent injury history and age.

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01-04-2012, 06:41 PM
  #106
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With Pronger OUT of the lineup I don't see how anyone takes the Flyers D over ours right now. It's not a push imo.

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01-04-2012, 09:52 PM
  #107
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I like the way this team is developing, and I knew it would come along. I just didn't think Richards would help accelerate things this quickly. There's incredible depth at almost every position except for left wing. If you can add a Zach Parise at the cost of a Brandon Dubinsky, you do it. People talk about having ex-Devils and the stink of them, sorry, but Shanahan was a Devil. I don't care if he played in St. Louis, Hartford, and Detroit afterwards, hell, he could have played beer league hockey with one of the posters on here, but he's still an ex-Devil, and he's had a 45 goal 94 point season in Jersey with not a lot of help.

Parise wouldn't kill this team either cap-wise with all of the salary coming off the books, and who says EVERY single one of our prospects is going to pan out. I'm sorry, but if I have the chance to get a proven 35-40 goal scorer, I take him.

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01-04-2012, 10:01 PM
  #108
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No way in hell are they going to trade him to their biggest rival

I want him, but he's not signing here. So many other good teams where he would fit right in. Why would he go to a team he absolutely hates?

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01-04-2012, 10:04 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
No way in hell are they going to trade him to their biggest rival

I want him, but he's not signing here. So many other good teams where he would fit right in. Why would he go to a team he absolutely hates?
I don't think anyone is talking about trading for him, rather signing him in the offseason.

Have you got any quotes etc that shows he hates the rangers?

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01-04-2012, 10:06 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
No way in hell are they going to trade him to their biggest rival

I want him, but he's not signing here. So many other good teams where he would fit right in. Why would he go to a team he absolutely hates?
I think we're all looking to acquire him as a free agent.

How do you know he's not signing here?

Scott Gomez, Bruce Driver, and John MacLean also all said they hated the Rangers. Look at how that worked out. Hell Vladimir Malakhov was an Islander and a Devil before becoming a Ranger. Pat LaFontaine played for the other 2 New York teams before playing his last game in a Rangers jersey. Kasparaitis said he hated the Rangers (Messier in specific as well) and ended up playing Messier and the Rangers for years and LOVED his time here, and was in the alumni game with Mess.

I honestly think you're putting a little too much stock into that.

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01-04-2012, 10:10 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
I think we're all looking to acquire him as a free agent.

How do you know he's not signing here?

Scott Gomez, Bruce Driver, and John MacLean also all said they hated the Rangers. Look at how that worked out. Hell Vladimir Malakhov was an Islander and a Devil before becoming a Ranger. Pat LaFontaine played for the other 2 New York teams before playing his last game in a Rangers jersey. Kasparaitis said he hated the Rangers (Messier in specific as well) and ended up playing Messier and the Rangers for years and LOVED his time here, and was in the alumni game with Mess.

I honestly think you're putting a little too much stock into that.
Its just a hunch. Didn't his father also loathe us? I'm not ruling it out completely... just think it's a longshot

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01-04-2012, 11:27 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
With Pronger OUT of the lineup I don't see how anyone takes the Flyers D over ours right now. It's not a push imo.
it depends on who we have...with Staal healthy we look a helluva lot better than we did before.

Didnt we have a lineup with Bickel, Erixon, and Stralman in it? thats PUTRID.

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01-05-2012, 12:27 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
it depends on who we have...with Staal healthy we look a helluva lot better than we did before.

Didnt we have a lineup with Bickel, Erixon, and Stralman in it? thats PUTRID.
Stralman has actually looked quite good. Has been playing decent minutes as well

Bickel too, but he's a filler for Sauer. He's going to get sent down eventually

Erixon needs a whole year in the AHL. He was pretty much an emergency call up

I'm including Steal because he came back. Sauer is probably back by February

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01-05-2012, 12:37 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
Its just a hunch. Didn't his father also loathe us? I'm not ruling it out completely... just think it's a longshot
His father was a Ranger killer, but I'm not really sure if he loathed the Rangers.

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01-05-2012, 01:27 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
it depends on who we have...with Staal healthy we look a helluva lot better than we did before.

Didnt we have a lineup with Bickel, Erixon, and Stralman in it? thats PUTRID.
It looks putrid but by some miracle it was not.

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01-05-2012, 01:46 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
It looks putrid but by some miracle it was not.
That's because the 3 guys in front of them, Girardi, McD, and MDZ all have played AMAZING this season, taking a lot of pressure off of them, and Stralman and Bickel were brought in to play small minutes but have played far beyond expectations.

The team is a well oiled machine right now, and with Staal coming back is only going to get better.

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01-05-2012, 08:01 AM
  #117
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I thought Parise said he was a Ranger fan at the draft? Am I totally off-base and thinking of someone else?

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01-05-2012, 08:57 AM
  #118
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Parise is good buddies with Stepan fwiw

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01-05-2012, 10:32 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
You don't think the GA stat has perhaps a little to do with their lackluster goalie situation? I think our D will be leaps and bounds better in a few years, but right now it's pretty even.
I rank ours (with Staal healthy)

Staal
Girardi
McD
Sauer
MDZ

I rank theirs

Timmonen
Coburn
Meszaros
Carle
Lilja

Now:

Staal>>Timonnen
Coburn = Girardi
McD>Meszaros
Sauer>>Carle
MDZ>>>Lilja

A healthy Pronger helps them in that moves everyone down. But, I would definitely take our 5 over their current 5. Lilja is not reliable and Carle is soft. None of our 5 are unreliable or soft (now that MDZ has stepped up).

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01-05-2012, 10:37 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
That's because the 3 guys in front of them, Girardi, McD, and MDZ all have played AMAZING this season, taking a lot of pressure off of them, and Stralman and Bickel were brought in to play small minutes but have played far beyond expectations.

The team is a well oiled machine right now, and with Staal coming back is only going to get better.
With Staal and Sauer healthy our #5 defenseman is currently +25. That's a good core.

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