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Winter Classic altercation (December 2012: fan sentenced to house arrest)

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Old
01-05-2012, 01:19 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
Sorry, but I completely disagree with this. It absolutely does matter, because cities have their reputations for a reason (for the record, I don't think NY fans are much better than Philly fans in this regard). While every fan base has its idiots, certain ones have a much higher percentage of idiots.

Someone in our thread about this incident on the Rangers board brought up a very good point, that being that most Southern cities (and Midwestern cities too, for that matter) are far more accommodating to out-of-towners than those of us in the Northeast (specifically NY, Philly, and Boston). Kind of sad when you think about it.
You are 100% incorrect. Think about population size. It's pretty much a numbers game.

Incidents occur more frequently in larger cities with higher population sizes.

Those guys could've run into any member of the HF Flyers' board theoretically and been fine. They ran into a small percentage of fans that would beat them up regardless of sport involved just because they were drunk from Philly and the other guys were from NY. It will happen in every city to the percentage of population size. I guarantee it.

Philadelphia's reputation is ********.

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01-05-2012, 01:24 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
You are 100% incorrect. Think about population size. It's pretty much a numbers game.

Incidents occur more frequently in larger cities with higher population sizes.

Those guys could've run into any member of the HF Flyers' board theoretically and been fine. They ran into a small percentage of fans that would beat them up regardless of sport involved just because they were drunk from Philly and the other guys were from NY. It will happen in every city to the percentage of population size. I guarantee it.
Oh really? Because I've spent quite a bit of time in NY, Philly, and Boston, but also Dallas and Houston. And yet I've seen and heard a ton of more stories about incidents like this from the NE cities than the Texas ones. Chicago and Detroit too, for that matter. Or when was the last time you heard about a bunch of Phoenix fans jumping an out of towner? (assuming they weren't checking him for his papers )

As for Philly's reputation, I won't get into it on the Flyers' board because I know the vast majority of people here are not people who embody that poor reputation, but I refuse to believe the whole "Broad Street Bullies" culture that Bill Clement talked so proudly about at the Classic and the city embraces doesn't help lead to incidents like this.

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01-05-2012, 01:30 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
It doesn't matter WHAT city it is. I'd personally avoid wearing the opposition's gear in any hometown hangout after my team had handed them a high-profile, frustrating loss. It's a risk, because every fanbase has idiots. You never know if one of those idiots is standing behind you totally hammered, slowly deciding to blame you for the way things went.

I'm a big guy, 6' 3" 240 lbs and when I was younger I would never wear any Flyers gear when I went to a game at MSG. I didn't want to be harassed by anyone and didn't think it would be a good idea. I've worn it to Devils games and have had a few things said towards me but it was never a big deal.

I know everyone has the right to support their team but at what point do you think it's a good idea to wear Rangers gear to Geno's and Pat's , where there are going to be a bunch of drunk idiots.

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01-05-2012, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
Oh really? Because I've spent quite a bit of time in NY, Philly, and Boston, but also Dallas and Houston. And yet I've seen and heard a ton of more stories about incidents like this from the NE cities than the Texas ones. Chicago and Detroit too, for that matter.

As for Philly's reputation, I won't get into it on the Flyers' board because I know the vast majority of people here are not people who embody that poor reputation, but I refuse to believe the whole "Broad Street Bullies" culture that Bill Clement talked so proudly about at the Classic and the city embraces doesn't help lead to incidents like this.
The Broad Street Bullies were the baddest hockey team around when hockey was a "baddest wins" sport. The entire reason the Bullies emerged and were assembled was because the original Flyers were getting beat around so much.

And while that "mindset" embodies a team and an atmosphere of one of if not the largest hockey fanbase in the United States, it does not increase the percentage of drunken sports *******s that a city has.

The Broad Street Bullies were a team, not a people. The people loved the team, but only the morons turned the game into a real life thing.

The Bullies themselves were vicious on the ice but weren't getting into brawls at the local pubs with Rangers fans.

You might get talked to more or bood more in Philadelphia about wearing your Rangers jersey, but that's not the issue at hand. That doesn't mean you're anymore likely to get beat up by some idiots.

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01-05-2012, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
No offense, but you can't lament about Philly being unfairly stereotyped by incidents like this, and then say that an out-of-town fan made an error in judgment by going to a restaurant in Rangers gear. If that's true, then it means that Philly deserves that stereotype.

Either way, let's all hope that these dirtbags are caught soon. A man and his kid? Despicable.

You shouldn't do that in ANY city was my point. I wouldn't show up in, let's say, Brooklyn, sporting Eagles gear, after they beat the Giants in a huge game, at a famous food place in line with a bunch of drunken Giants fans. It's not a smart thing to do.

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01-05-2012, 01:36 PM
  #31
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As clarification, I do not place any of the blame on the victims for dressing a certain way; that's their right. It's still all on the idiots who decided to assault them. I'm trying to say that wearing certain things in certain places can increase the risk of being (extraordinarily) inconvenienced.

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01-05-2012, 01:37 PM
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So again, why do we hear so much more about incidents like this in the Northeast than we do from places like Houston or Phoenix, which have just as many if not more people than NY, Boston, and Philly? To say that the mentality of our cities is no worse than others around the country is just naive, plain and simple.

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01-05-2012, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
So again, why do we hear so much more about incidents like this in the Northeast than we do from places like Houston or Phoenix, which have just as many if not more people than NY, Boston, and Philly? To say that the mentality of our cities is no worse than others around the country is just naive, plain and simple.
Go to Forbes.com and look up the revenues for hockey---actually look up the revenues for all sports teams in the NE vs the rest of the country. There will be a few exceptions for the vast part of this social experiment...

Greater Population Per Volume = Denser Volume of Sports Fans = Greater Chance of Meeting the "Wrong" People

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01-05-2012, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Go to Forbes.com and look up the revenues for hockey---actually look up the revenues for all sports teams in the NE vs the rest of the country. There will be a few exceptions for the vast part of this social experiment...

Greater Population Per Volume = Denser Volume of Sports Fans = Greater Chance of Meeting the "Wrong" People
City-wide persona based on "toughness" = Higher percentage of the "wrong" people

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01-05-2012, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
City-wide persona based on "toughness" = Higher percentage of the "wrong" people
There is no city-wide persona of "toughess" anymore than there is one in NY or Boston.

Hell, and you guys didn't even have the Broad Street Bullies show you the way.

Come on buddy, if you really still think Philadelphia is filled to the brim with drunken morons who want to beat you up and the wives of those drunken morons who want to beat you up then you've never been there.

However, I do like the fact that you guys are all afraid of us. It entertains me greatly.

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01-05-2012, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyrs21 View Post
I'm a big guy, 6' 3" 240 lbs and when I was younger I would never wear any Flyers gear when I went to a game at MSG. I didn't want to be harassed by anyone and didn't think it would be a good idea. I've worn it to Devils games and have had a few things said towards me but it was never a big deal.

I know everyone has the right to support their team but at what point do you think it's a good idea to wear Rangers gear to Geno's and Pat's , where there are going to be a bunch of drunk idiots.

This right here is exactly what is wrong with Philly, and shows the Philly mindset. While it sounds like your a pretty straight up individual, the only reason it is a stupid idea to wear an opposing jersey at one of the more famous food spots in Philly, is the risk of getting beat up.

When is the last time you heard of someone getting beat up at Shake Shack in nyc for wearing a Flyer Jersey? There should be no fear of this

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01-05-2012, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
So again, why do we hear so much more about incidents like this in the Northeast than we do from places like Houston or Phoenix, which have just as many if not more people than NY, Boston, and Philly? To say that the mentality of our cities is no worse than others around the country is just naive, plain and simple.

Because in most southern states you are able to carry a gun

I know I would be nice to everyone

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01-05-2012, 01:51 PM
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This right here is exactly what is wrong with Philly, and shows the Philly mindset. While it sounds like your a pretty straight up individual, the only reason it is a stupid idea to wear an opposing jersey at one of the more famous food spots in Philly, is the risk of getting beat up.

When is the last time you heard of someone getting beat up at Shake Shack in nyc for wearing a Flyer Jersey? There should be no fear of this
I didn't grow up in Philly. I grew up in Richmond, yet I also wouldn't do the same thing. The risk is there, and I'm not a fan of unnecessarily increasing risk to myself...though really, my main fear is having someone throw things at my expensive jersey.

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Because in most southern states you are able to carry a gun

I know I would be nice to everyone
It's pretty awesome.

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01-05-2012, 01:53 PM
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Oh really? Because I've spent quite a bit of time in NY, Philly, and Boston, but also Dallas and Houston. And yet I've seen and heard a ton of more stories about incidents like this from the NE cities than the Texas ones. Chicago and Detroit too, for that matter. Or when was the last time you heard about a bunch of Phoenix fans jumping an out of towner? (assuming they weren't checking him for his papers )
So you are basing this argument on only your personal experience? Is your influence so great that you can make generalizations that cities such as Dallas and Houston arent as bad as ones up north?

I too have lived in Dallas (17 years), as well as Philly (12 years), and I can tell YOU that I have seen Dallas fans act worse than northern fans more frequently.

Now, does this mean its true because I saw/heard it? no.
There are two types of sports fans:

1. idiots who get so worked up over a sporting event (because they failed as athletes) they go out and pick fights with opposing fans.

and

2. Normal everyday fans who love their team with a passion, but recognize its just a game and respect human life.

These two types of fans are in every city.

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01-05-2012, 01:55 PM
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There is no city-wide persona of "toughess" anymore than there is one in NY or Boston.

Hell, and you guys didn't even have the Broad Street Bullies show you the way.

Come on buddy, if you really still think Philadelphia is filled to the brim with drunken morons who want to beat you up and the wives of those drunken morons who want to beat you up then you've never been there.

However, I do like the fact that you guys are all afraid of us. It entertains me greatly.
Uh yeah, hence me lumping NY and Philly in the same breath in nearly every one of my posts in this thread. Frankly, I can't even stand most of the fans at Rangers games because so many have the a--hole mentality and love to boo their own players. I guess I'm just the one who's actually able to admit it rather than sticking my head in the sand and acting like the reputation is just unfair persecution.

Fantastic job putting words in my mouth though.


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01-05-2012, 01:57 PM
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This right here is exactly what is wrong with Philly, and shows the Philly mindset. While it sounds like your a pretty straight up individual, the only reason it is a stupid idea to wear an opposing jersey at one of the more famous food spots in Philly, is the risk of getting beat up.

When is the last time you heard of someone getting beat up at Shake Shack in nyc for wearing a Flyer Jersey? There should be no fear of this
It is also whats wrong with Dallas, and shows the Dallas mindset. (Also, shows the LA mindset when the Giants fan got beat up). I lived there for a long time, and got threatened, and hit a few times because I was supporting someone other than the Cowboys.

it is definitely not JUST Philly.

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01-05-2012, 02:00 PM
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Uh yeah, hence me lumping NY and Philly in the same breath in nearly every one of my posts in this thread.

Fantastic job putting words in my mouth though.
You wanna go?

Let's take this to Geno's.



Seriously though, idiots exist in every city and in no small number. Larger cities with denser populations will obviously have more idiots and therefore more incidents whether or not they get reported on ESPN.

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01-05-2012, 02:13 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Flyrs21 View Post
I'm a big guy, 6' 3" 240 lbs and when I was younger I would never wear any Flyers gear when I went to a game at MSG. I didn't want to be harassed by anyone and didn't think it would be a good idea. I've worn it to Devils games and have had a few things said towards me but it was never a big deal.

I know everyone has the right to support their team but at what point do you think it's a good idea to wear Rangers gear to Geno's and Pat's , where there are going to be a bunch of drunk idiots.

I'm an average guy, 5'9' 195 lbs (with some muscle not fat, lol!!) and I went to the Flyers Rangers game at MSG on 12/23. This time, along with my other time going, I chose to wear my Flyers jersey and have felt physically threatened. Only by me walking away and or shrugging things off/being a good sport was a fight avoided. Keep in mind that my latest time going, my girlfriend was with me and bought me tickets to the game as a Christmas gift and she was also wearing a Rangers jersey (sorry guys!!). I was totally respectful to everyone and simply sat and watched the game while cheering the Flyers. The guy and his friends were harassing me and took it way over the line. After each of the first two Rangers goals, he would stand up and turn around while yelling obscenities at me/in my face while flipping me off. I simply responded with "Let's Go Flyers" and clapping over and over again.

After the third goal, he did it again and that's when my girlfriend stood up and told him to sit down because he was a %*$in' loser!! (priceless moment btw because she's a very nice person). Only then did he shut up and stop harassing me. I guess it's pretty embarassing when a girl in your team's sweater calls you a loser HA! A lot of Rangers fans are just as bad as they claim Philly is and they are what they hate!

Anyways, most of the people were cool but there's always some idiots and you have to be smart about where you are when you wear a rival's colors. If I was in some secluded dark area, I would try to take my jersey off or at the very least just keep my mouth shut about everything.

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01-05-2012, 02:49 PM
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I'm an average guy, 5'9' 195 lbs (with some muscle not fat, lol!!) and I went to the Flyers Rangers game at MSG on 12/23. This time, along with my other time going, I chose to wear my Flyers jersey and have felt physically threatened. Only by me walking away and or shrugging things off/being a good sport was a fight avoided. Keep in mind that my latest time going, my girlfriend was with me and bought me tickets to the game as a Christmas gift and she was also wearing a Rangers jersey (sorry guys!!). I was totally respectful to everyone and simply sat and watched the game while cheering the Flyers. The guy and his friends were harassing me and took it way over the line. After each of the first two Rangers goals, he would stand up and turn around while yelling obscenities at me/in my face while flipping me off. I simply responded with "Let's Go Flyers" and clapping over and over again.

After the third goal, he did it again and that's when my girlfriend stood up and told him to sit down because he was a %*$in' loser!! (priceless moment btw because she's a very nice person). Only then did he shut up and stop harassing me. I guess it's pretty embarassing when a girl in your team's sweater calls you a loser HA! A lot of Rangers fans are just as bad as they claim Philly is and they are what they hate!

Anyways, most of the people were cool but there's always some idiots and you have to be smart about where you are when you wear a rival's colors. If I was in some secluded dark area, I would try to take my jersey off or at the very least just keep my mouth shut about everything.

the key statement here is, he sat down after he was called a loser..... Didn't get 5 people to beat the hell out of you..... that's a huge difference

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01-05-2012, 02:54 PM
  #45
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the key statement here is, he sat down after he was called a loser..... Didn't get 5 people to beat the hell out of you..... that's a huge difference
If his girlfriend was a Flyers fan that could have gone very, very differently.

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01-05-2012, 03:05 PM
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If his girlfriend was a Flyers fan that could have gone very, very differently.
very valid point.

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01-05-2012, 03:09 PM
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Just be glad you haven't got the fan problems that the Netherlands and to some extent England has, as England has got better in last ten years.

I support Ajax but live in Utrecht, and if I want to go to watch Ajax play at Utrecht's Stadium I have to go to Amsterdam and get on the coach to Utrecht with the rest of the Ajax fans, and are generally escorted into stadiums by police as away fans, then have to sit in a caged off area in the corner of the stadium, on the opposite side from the Bunnik side, where the hardcore fans (read hooligans), sit. And each game there are fights up and down the street after, with riot police out.

Strange really as the Netherlands is such a crime free and nice, laid back, friendly country in general!

I hope these 'fans' are caught and punished appropriately for their crime. Hate a minority giving a bad name to a whole fanbase. (Have experience of it being a Man City and Ajax fan in football!)

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01-05-2012, 03:29 PM
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very valid point.
Yep. That would have been really bad. I would have ended up walking elsewhere at that point. And please, NY fans have absolutely ganged up on other fans. Please don't give me that self-righteous BS.

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01-05-2012, 03:35 PM
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Its true we have bad fans too. But I will not defend them, at all. Anyone defending these actions with, "well it happens there too" are just as bad.

but for those of you that would like a chance to do something, while searching the victims name, a link to a baby registry came up.

apparently he is a new father just recently having a baby. Some of us of the ranger board have bought some of the stuff on the list, and sent it to the family, from "ranger fans everywhere" and such notes.

here is the link just in case any one on here would like to be a part of this:

http://www.amazingregistry.com/baby-...s=showRegistry

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01-05-2012, 03:41 PM
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Its true we have bad fans too. But I will not defend them, at all. Anyone defending these actions with, "well it happens there too" are just as bad.

but for those of you that would like a chance to do something, while searching the victims name, a link to a baby registry came up.

apparently he is a new father just recently having a baby. Some of us of the ranger board have bought some of the stuff on the list, and sent it to the family, from "ranger fans everywhere" and such notes.

here is the link just in case any one on here would like to be a part of this:

http://www.amazingregistry.com/baby-...s=showRegistry

Please look at my previous posts throughout. I said many times that these guys need to go to jail. I only said that these things happen everywhere and you shouldn't put yourself in a situation like that as an opposing fan.

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