It would be nice if Columbus decides to rebuild, but it isn't going to happen =/ I would probably go after Carter though. He's been shifted and playing on the left a lot in Columbus and has been playing well. No one can complain about his contract either... Johnson + Loktionov + Hickey + Penner + 2nd for Carter.
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"It has not been a good day. I lost my glasses early this morning and I had to go buy a pair of 79 dollar reading glasses today. 79 bucks. You can literally get them at Costco, three-for-20." - Darryl Sutter's response to going up 2-0 in the series.
It would be nice if Columbus decides to rebuild, but it isn't going to happen =/ I would probably go after Carter though. He's been shifted and playing on the left a lot in Columbus and has been playing well. No one can complain about his contract either... Johnson + Loktionov + Hickey + Penner + 2nd for Carter.
It is going to take the Ownership to fire the GM for a full rebuild in Columbus. The current GM is trying to save his job. It wouldn't surprise me if Columbus tries to add at the Deadline.
It would be nice if Columbus decides to rebuild, but it isn't going to happen =/ I would probably go after Carter though. He's been shifted and playing on the left a lot in Columbus and has been playing well. No one can complain about his contract either... Johnson + Loktionov + Hickey + Penner + 2nd for Carter.
I don't think Carter is right for LA, he will go on scoreless streaks just as much as some of these kings players. I do feel tho that penner needs to go. We should've never gave colton tuebert for him
They would have taken Clifford + Schenn. How do you think Lombardi would have fit Brad Richards on our roster? Makes you think...
They'd have accepted Clifford says who? Link.
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Don't get condescending. Money fits better than you think, go to cap geek. I am not going to spend the time on this frivolous argument, especially when I don't care about Nash, but the salary structure is much more flexible than you give it credit for. That is the advantage of signing our core long term and having the flexibility that Lombardi has designed for us all these years. The man is good with numbers, hence why he could go after Brad Richards...
Not condescending at all. You should know this. And he may have went after Richards, but that was before Gagne was involved. Doubt we get both and fit them in. Not to mention Richards cap hit is below $6.7 while Nash is at $7.8 million. Before we signed Gagne, DL was trying to added Richards, likely at around the same cap hit he has now $6.7 million. To get Nash, barring trading a salary back that comes off the books next year, he'd have to fit in bottom Gagne's $3.5 million and Nash's $7.8 million. Big difference between $6.7 million and $11.3 million.
How are we more flexible? You yourself admit you can't be bothered to go to capgeek and punch a few numbers, yet can repeat the same BS over and over that we have a bunch of cap space. Show me how we do and still have the room to add Quick's long term likely $7 million deal (Rinne money).
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29 teams would not be interested in Penner, only contenders with cap space would and only for nothing. The "people" you are referring to is just a couple dozen people spouting off on HFBoards. Go ask the people in the league, or Columbus fans, and see what they have to say about the matter.
Now who has something going over their head? Read what I wrote. I said all teams would have interest. Once you factor in his cap hit and production, the number of teams would drop. Just...like...Nash.
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Still on pace for 25 on the worst team in the NHL, leading his team in goals. I'd also argue that his supporting cast isn't the best ever. Doesn't matter, because he is still putting them in the net regardless. Doesn't mean he is Lecalvalier all of a sudden because scoring in Columbus isn't as easy as it used to be and he gets double teamed every night.
Agreed. It is impressive. Just not for a $7.8 million cap hit.
And when in the last seven seasons has he not been double teamed? What's different about this year?
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Columbus has only scored 6 more goals than us. We have a much better supporting cast and can give him much more ice.
Nash is 2nd on Columbus in ice time among forwards and tops in powerplay time for anyone who has played more than two games this season. We complain that we don't score because we don't have an elite sniper. COlumbus has two and they have six more goals. Yeah, that convinces me our problem is lacking a guy like Nash.
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I don't care if he is putting up 30 assists. If he is consistently putting up 30+ on a god awful team that is sinking, his numbers look pretty darn good to me. He doesn't have the luxury of playing with Ribiero and Benn every night for 3 seasons, ironically the year he shot up in production...
I assume the "he" you are referring to playing with Ribiero and Benn is Eriksson. Eriksson first "shot up in production" in 2008-2009. Benn was in the WHL that year. Research.
From that list, I think Prospal (who has been mentioned in this thread already I think) and Travis Moen would be solid veteran additions to the lineup, and wouldn't cost an arm and a leg to acquire. I think going after a big fish like Parise doesn't make sense as a deadline move; given the uncertainty of the contract situation. Both Moen and Prospal are playing for teams well outside the playoff hunt, and I think could be had for prospects / picks.
In terms of salary, they are making around $4.1M combined. So with the partial season discount factored in, I think the Kings would have to move some salary to fit them in; but I'm not sure how much.
I'm thinking something like AMart + 2nd would get Prospal. And perhaps a Manchester player (Dwight King?) or the rights to Moller plus a 4th rounder would get Moen. What do you guys think?
I've secretly hoping LA signs Moen this off-season already. Big guy, knows his role, plays smart, good leadership and will do pretty much what is asked of him, just don't ask for more than 15-20 points a season. I don't think we need him before the off-season though. Offense is our issue and he doesn't do that.
As for Prospal, I'm the one who brought him up IIRC and I suggested a 2nd. A 2nd is fine, no need to add A Mart to this. That'd be to much.
You know as well as I that saying that we wouldn't have been able to trade for Richards if we had traded for Kovalchuk is equally as ridiculous.
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Originally Posted by kingsfan
Not condescending at all. You should know this. And he may have went after Richards, but that was before Gagne was involved. Doubt we get both and fit them in. Not to mention Richards cap hit is below $6.7 while Nash is at $7.8 million. Before we signed Gagne, DL was trying to added Richards, likely at around the same cap hit he has now $6.7 million. To get Nash, barring trading a salary back that comes off the books next year, he'd have to fit in bottom Gagne's $3.5 million and Nash's $7.8 million. Big difference between $6.7 million and $11.3 million.
How are we more flexible? You yourself admit you can't be bothered to go to capgeek and punch a few numbers, yet can repeat the same BS over and over that we have a bunch of cap space. Show me how we do and still have the room to add Quick's long term likely $7 million deal (Rinne money).
Because I don't want to spend hours of my morning working on a frivolous argument to appease you because you don't know how operations in the NHL work. Just because you factor in the CBA and cap fluxuations doesn't mean it is impossible to add a star player. Take a page out of the Rangers book. We are a cap team now, you are going to have to get used to the idea of being flexible. I've already clearly shown that it isn't that we "might" afford him next season, it is that we will. I already made that chart for you. I am not going to do any more of your work for you. It is time for you to make a chart that proves otherwise, because mine is already out there that proves it works.
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Originally Posted by kingsfan
Now who has something going over their head? Read what I wrote. I said all teams would have interest. Once you factor in his cap hit and production, the number of teams would drop. Just...like...Nash.
Still on pace for 25 on the worst team in the NHL, leading his team in goals. I'd also argue that his supporting cast isn't the best ever. Doesn't matter, because he is still putting them in the net regardless. Doesn't mean he is Lecalvalier all of a sudden because scoring in Columbus isn't as easy as it used to be and he gets double teamed every night.
Agreed. It is impressive. Just not for a $7.8 million cap hit.
And when in the last seven seasons has he not been double teamed? What's different about this year?
It is not an Excel page. There are real people involved. Maybe he just doesn't want to do it, having a hard time getting motivation on a piss-poor team? I don't know. What I do know is that his ability has not diminished and greatly exceeds many of the names being thrown out here yet and being an armchair GM, crunching on Cheetos, and looking at charts tells you little when it comes to acquiring talent. A man can have an off year and score 4 goals less you know... That doesn't diminish him as a hockey player. That is like saying Malkin sucks and is overpaid and overrated because his totals dropped a couple years. Sheer ridiculousness.
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Originally Posted by kingsfan
Nash is 2nd on Columbus in ice time among forwards and tops in powerplay time for anyone who has played more than two games this season. We complain that we don't score because we don't have an elite sniper. COlumbus has two and they have six more goals. Yeah, that convinces me our problem is lacking a guy like Nash.
Look at the team they are playing on. You've got to be kidding me. Because they aren't putting up 50 a piece in Columbus, therefore, they will fail in LA? And you question my logic? That would be like me saying that he is only within 2 goals of Eriksson, therefore I can say the same about anyone who plays for Dallas. As if team goals is indicative to the individual player.
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Originally Posted by kingsfan
I assume the "he" you are referring to playing with Ribiero and Benn is Eriksson. Eriksson first "shot up in production" in 2008-2009. Benn was in the WHL that year. Research.
I did research. It is called a mistake. I accidentally looked at the wrong year line when looking at the three players. So he played with Ribiero and Ott/Richards/Morrow. He still has a better supporting cast, defense that can get him the puck, and the best puckhandling goaltender in the league behind him.
I am not saying I don't want Eriksson. I absolutely do. I am arguing that Nash's skillset is more desirable and of a much greater need to the Kings over Eriksson's. They have several guys that can pass the puck extremely well and chip in some goals. They don't have anyone who ritually has that drive to the net and has a pure shot and goal scoring sense. We need someone that can hit the corner under pressure and not fling the puck wide all day long. Nash is that guy more than anyone.
And to say that we simply can't afford him is not true. You can make changes in your roster to accommodate him easily, not that many are really necessary, given that if you dumped a salary like Penner or Stoll's, he would already fit on this team for this year and the next... Still. It is not as doomsday dire as you make it out to be.
You know as well as I that saying that we wouldn't have been able to trade for Richards if we had traded for Kovalchuk is equally as ridiculous.
Right. Because there's no difference between Simmonds and Clifford at all. Ones on pace for 22 goals this seson and the other has half his fanbase calling for him to get sent to Manchester, but you're right, your opinion, once again not supported by a link which I find odd considering Mods are supposed to expect posters to provide them.
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Because I don't want to spend hours of my morning working on a frivolous argument to appease you because you don't know how operations in the NHL work.
Thanks once agin for your assumption, but I know well enough how these things work. Been involved in more than you'll even know, something I can tell by your insight on these matters.
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Just because you factor in the CBA and cap fluxuations doesn't mean it is impossible to add a star player. Take a page out of the Rangers book.
And you get the impression AEG would let DL bury a $6.5 million salary in the minors where?
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We are a cap team now, you are going to have to get used to the idea of being flexible. I've already clearly shown that it isn't that we "might" afford him next season, it is that we will.
LMAO. You don't have time as you put it above, but now you've "shown" me? You've shown nothing, just spouted off about cap space and flexibility. I've shown you the complications, you've shown nothing.
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I already made that chart for you. I am not going to do any more of your work for you. It is time for you to make a chart that proves otherwise, because mine is already out there that proves it works.
What chart. If you did post one then in all honesty, I completely missed it.
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It is not an Excel page. There are real people involved. Maybe he just doesn't want to do it, having a hard time getting motivation on a piss-poor team? I don't know.
Great, yeah, we need that. Sign me up.
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What I do know is that his ability has not diminished and greatly exceeds many of the names being thrown out here yet and being an armchair GM, crunching on Cheetos, and looking at charts tells you little when it comes to acquiring talent. A man can have an off year and score 4 goals less you know... That doesn't diminish him as a hockey player. That is like saying Malkin sucks and is overpaid and overrated because his totals dropped a couple years. Sheer ridiculousness.
Man, this is like watching a dog chase his tail. For the approximately 10th time, I have never said I wouldn't want Nash or that I think Nash isn't as skilled as a guy like Eriksson. I do. But when you add in the cap hit and the expected return the Jackets would want, I'd rather go someone else. Not once did I said Nash sucks. I said he's overrated for what he brings, overpaid and would cost way to much to acquire. I stand by all three assertions.
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Look at the team they are playing on. You've got to be kidding me. Because they aren't putting up 50 a piece in Columbus, therefore, they will fail in LA? And you question my logic? That would be like me saying that he is only within 2 goals of Eriksson, therefore I can say the same about anyone who plays for Dallas.
Yep, that's exactly what I said. Great reading comprehension. They are both on a team that has added pieces and are viewed as key cogs of what was expected to be an enhanced offense (adding Johansen, Carter and Wisnewski) and they have a total of six more goals as a team than we do.
To assume a guy will come in and then proceed to produce substancial more is worthy of a though.
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As if team goals is indicative to the individual player.
Then why did you bring it up? I quoted you referring to COlumbus scoring 6 more goals than us. If it's not reflective, why did you use it to support your argument?
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I did research. It is called a mistake. I accidentally looked at the wrong year line when looking at the three players. So he played with Ribiero and Ott/Richards/Morrow. He still has a better supporting cast, defense that can get him the puck, and the best puckhandling goaltender in the league behind him.
I can agree on better linemates to some extent, though I think Huselius is comparible offensively speaking. Don't agree about the defense and puckhandling goalie though. But that's all opinion.
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I am not saying I don't want Eriksson. I absolutely do. I am arguing that Nash's skillset is more desirable and of a much greater need to the Kings over Eriksson's.
See, this is where I think we are in once sense arguing the same point. I agree, word for word, with what you have said above. If they were 100% equal on all accounts, I'd prefer Nash as well.
Where I differ is the fact that cap hit makes him virtually undesireable to me. If his cap hit was only for this year and next I might actually buy into it and be willing to make the deal, similar to how I support getting Iginla. It's the beyond next year part I don't agree with. Fitting him, Richards, Kopitar, Doughty, Johnson and Quick into a cap that could start to stagnant is my concern. That's $37.3 or so, assuming Quick gets $6 million cap hit annually for six players, leaving $27 million for the remaining 14. Add in Brown's $3.1 million and whatever Voinov would be asking, and that number starts to drop a fair bit. We'd be like the Lightning after they won the cup, a great starting line up, but bareboned after unless the cap keeps going up and AEG was willing to keep spending to the cap.
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And to say that we simply can't afford him is not true. You can make changes in your roster to accommodate him easily, not that many are really necessary, given that if you dumped a salary like Penner or Stoll's, he would already fit on this team for this year and the next... Still. It is not as doomsday dire as you make it out to be.
Once again, it's not so much next year, though it is partially, it's when Quick's extension kicks in. That's when we could be in a very tight cap situation.
Obviously in my mind, you are completely missing the point of my arguments, and in yours I am missing the point of your arguments. Let's just leave it at that. I don't have time for this and am tired of flooding the board with nonsense. You are beginning to take this too personally. I should have realized it sooner and apologize that I allowed the frivolity to continue this long.
Can't........can't.........can't both of you guys just get along?
MOM AND DAD ARE FIGHTING AGAIN!!!!!
Please, please for the sake of the children can't you both stop fighting?
I think you guys were just having a semi heated debate and that nothing personal was meant by anyone but then I have had my hands slapped for less around here.
I've secretly hoping LA signs Moen this off-season already. Big guy, knows his role, plays smart, good leadership and will do pretty much what is asked of him, just don't ask for more than 15-20 points a season. I don't think we need him before the off-season though. Offense is our issue and he doesn't do that.
As for Prospal, I'm the one who brought him up IIRC and I suggested a 2nd. A 2nd is fine, no need to add A Mart to this. That'd be to much.
I was just thinking about this last night. Moen, making 1.5 million and only 29 years old, has 9 goals in 38 games with 2 fights and is a +2. I really like him coming to LA and hope the Kings make a run for him. He brings that 3rd line presence we haven't had since Handzus, Poni and Simmonds....a guy you can shuffle up and down but can do the dirty work...unlike Penner.
I was just thinking about this last night. Moen, making 1.5 million and only 29 years old, has 9 goals in 38 games with 2 fights and is a +2. I really like him coming to LA and hope the Kings make a run for him. He brings that 3rd line presence we haven't had since Handzus, Poni and Simmonds....a guy you can shuffle up and down but can do the dirty work...unlike Penner.
Serious question. What is your ideal bottom 6? If you could choose anyone around the league, what would your bottom 6 look like?
Serious question. What is your ideal bottom 6? If you could choose anyone around the league, what would your bottom 6 look like?
As Sydor25 suggested, looking at Boston's bottom six is a good example. Let's analyze the players and what unique skill set they each possess.
Kelly-Peverley-Pouliot
Paille-Campbell-Thornton
Chris Kelly is a defensive specialist and hardworking two-way forward who has always been able to chip in around 30 points.
Rich Peverley is a skilled playmaking center who is also capable of moving up in the lineup if need be.
Pouliot is a bit of an inconsistent forward but he has managed to score over 10 goals in each of his last two seasons and is on his way of having a third consecutive season with 10+ goals. He's a bottom six forward who can provide offensive production in spurts.
Gregory Campbell is all hustle and heart. He doesn't put up big numbers on the board but his hard work does at times result to points.
Paille is yet another forward with a history of registering points in a limited amount of ice time. He's a speedy forward who is constantly on the puck.
Shawn Thornton is one of the toughest players in the league who is also capable of skating a regular shift. He's not your average stiff and provides an intimidating presence and a bodyguard for the Bruins.
If I were to make the perfect bottom six lineup based on 2012 free agents (excluding the names I mentioned above), I would go with the following group:
Moen-Hecht-Dvorak
Prust-Pahlsson-Tootoo
Other potential candidates to consider for bottom six roles:
Gaustad
Moore
Asham
Glass
Wellwood
Nielsen
I'd love a guy like Nathan Gerbe on our team. Crashes and bangs like a bottom six forward but has some insane agility and pretty good skill with the puck. Would look good on our third line.
I hope Dean throws his chips at Vanek. Seems like a perfect fit to me. The Sabres are set in goal so Bernier's not a chip and they have a ton of money in their defense already so I don't think they'd want a blueliner back. I just don't know if we have the value up front to give. I think they'll be looking for a top forward prospect already in the NHL, another top forward, and a pick. From the Lightning, for example: Brett Connolly, Teddy Purcell, and a 2nd. We couldn't match something like that without giving up a core player.
They have a bunch of little people to choose from. I doubt they move Vanek for what LA can offer. Not sure they make a great trading partner right now.
Something tells me that Calgary will become our newest trading partner. Adding grit and skills of Iginla and Bourque could be the identity this team needs.
Something tells me that Calgary will become our newest trading partner. Adding grit and skills of Iginla and Bourque could be the identity this team needs.
I'd love to see that happen but can't imagine what it would take for the Kings to pull it off.
Something tells me that Calgary will become our newest trading partner. Adding grit and skills of Iginla and Bourque could be the identity this team needs.
Im going to make my first nutty proposal for Iginla and Borque.
Bernier, jj, hickey, williams, and 1st and stoll for borque and iginla
