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Jagr not known for his speed?

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Old
01-05-2012, 10:50 AM
  #26
livewell68
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Originally Posted by begbeee View Post


Bure never won this. Gartner holds the record. S. Niedermayer put some interesting numbers.
I don't think Pavel Bure ever participated in this event, I could be wrong though. His brother Valeri did and he was known to be fast in his own right but the slower of the two brothers.

I was always under the impression that Pavel Bure was too cocky and felt that maybe this event was below him?

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01-05-2012, 11:05 AM
  #27
ChrisKreider20
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Jagr was faster in the mid-nineties. He then put on a ton of weight in the dead puck era when speed became less effective. He switched his game to puck possession.

You tend to lose some of your speed when you weigh 240.

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01-05-2012, 11:16 AM
  #28
begbeee
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Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
I don't think Pavel Bure ever participated in this event, I could be wrong though. His brother Valeri did and he was known to be fast in his own right but the slower of the two brothers.

I was always under the impression that Pavel Bure was too cocky and felt that maybe this event was below him?
Did you even watch the video?
Bure participated in NHL All-Star Game in 1993, 1994, 1997, 1998, 2000 and 2001. He never won fastest skater skills competition.

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01-05-2012, 11:17 AM
  #29
the edler
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a fastest skater event doesn't tell you everything, first of all there's no puck, second you don't skate around the whole rink like that in a game, in a game there's more on acceleration and shorter spurts

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01-05-2012, 11:22 AM
  #30
begbeee
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Originally Posted by the edler View Post
a fastest skater event doesn't tell you everything, first of all there's no puck, second you don't skate around the whole rink like that in a game, in a game there's more on acceleration and shorter spurts
Maintain such speed with puck is of course the most important part of speedskating skill. However, it's not like in this competition he skated with some scrubs and I feel that Bure's skating became a little bit overrated.

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01-05-2012, 11:47 AM
  #31
the edler
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bure was at his fastest from 91 to 94, before his torn acl

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01-05-2012, 11:50 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
I think Fedorov and Coffee could give Bure a run for his money.
Indeed.

Red Bull tastes better thought.

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01-05-2012, 11:51 AM
  #33
begbeee
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Originally Posted by the edler View Post
bure was at his fastest from 91 to 94, before his torn acl
Well, he didnt win in 1993 and 1994, so my point still stands.

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01-05-2012, 12:24 PM
  #34
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When I think of Jagr's skating, it's not his speed that I think of. (Although he was certainly a fast skater). It's his strength and his balance. Mark Messier was the model for power skating throughout the 1980s; he was often the guy who was viewed as being the top power skater in the league. Jagr might have been even more powerful on his skates. He had that deep knee bend. When you combined his strength on his skates, his overall power, his balance and his puck skills, it was almost impossible to dislodge the puck from him.

As for Bure: he wasn't the fastest pure skater out there. He was never as fast as Gartner or Coffey, or even as quick as his Soviet linemates Fedorov and Mogilny. What separated Bure was that the puck didn't slow him down. With the puck, he was as quick as anybody we'll ever see. There are a variety of reasons for that. He was an incredible stick-handler, and he had an incredible passion and desire for scoring goals. He knew how to score and he absolutely wanted to score. Unfortunately, it often came at the expense of his team.


Last edited by God Bless Canada: 01-05-2012 at 12:30 PM.
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01-05-2012, 01:59 PM
  #35
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He is not slow but he is not that exploding. The low crouch, the strength and the long reach are more what I think of when I think Jagr.

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01-05-2012, 02:30 PM
  #36
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Okay just to set the record straight, Bure in my opinion is the fastest skater between either one of Fedorov and Selanne (I assume we all agree Jagr isn't in this discussion). Fedorov comes a close second and Selanne comes a close 3rd. The eye test year in and year out told me that Bure was the faster skater.

But back to Jagr. How fast was he? I'd say he was pretty fast in his prime. A lot of that had to do with his shiftiness too. When you can stick handle the way he can you certainly look faster. Like Lemieux I always felt Jagr had gears. He had a nice long stride. It also helps just how strong he was on his feet and how impossible it was to knock him off the puck. That is another example of how a player can look faster on the ice. When no one can take the puck from you, you'll look faster.

But I think he had pretty good breakaway speed. Not of the Bure mold, but in all honesty you didn't see Jagr get caught from behind on a breakaway either very much.

Maybe some will disagree with me saying this, but I think his skating in his prime is comparable to what we see with Crosby today. Crosby is fast, and has strong legs, but there are others that have more straightaway speed. Same for Jagr. You'd never call him slow on the ice and if anything you probably called him a strong skater rather than a fast one, at least that's how I'd identify him. But to just ask the question about speed, yeah, Jagr was pretty fast.

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01-05-2012, 05:23 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the edler View Post
a fastest skater event doesn't tell you everything, first of all there's no puck, second you don't skate around the whole rink like that in a game, in a game there's more on acceleration and shorter spurts
Also, not all the fastest skaters wanted to participate in the speed skating event (or gave their all) due to risk of injuries (they had/were still somewhat recovering from lingering injuries in mid-season). To get a better picture, you also need to take a look at the speed skating results from each team's internal competitions, which were held before the all star game.

And as you said, some skating styles suited better than others for the all-star game competition's 'around the rink'- skating.

For me, Bure was the fastest in terms of actual in-game situations' speed and even moreso acceleration, especially if you consider how often he had the puck in those situations. Coffey wasn't far behind, but he more often had the advantage of starting with the puck at lower than top-speed, thus giving him more time and space to get settled before reaching full speed.

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01-05-2012, 05:57 PM
  #38
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I remember Kariya would never participate in the fastest skater competition. People wanted him to, but he didn't do it a whole lot. Neither did Bure from what I remember much. I remember guys like Niedermayer, Amonte, etc. doing it once in a while. Ovechkin has done it. Can anyone believe Bill Guerin once won the thing?

But the most notable winner was Mike Gartner. Hard to believe in this era of power skating and such that no one has beaten his All-Star game record set in 1996 when Gartner was 36 years old

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01-05-2012, 05:59 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by gary69 View Post
Also, not all the fastest skaters wanted to participate in the speed skating event (or gave their all) due to risk of injuries (they had/were still somewhat recovering from lingering injuries in mid-season). To get a better picture, you also need to take a look at the speed skating results from each team's internal competitions, which were held before the all star game.

And as you said, some skating styles suited better than others for the all-star game competition's 'around the rink'- skating.

For me, Bure was the fastest in terms of actual in-game situations' speed and even moreso acceleration, especially if you consider how often he had the puck in those situations. Coffey wasn't far behind, but he more often had the advantage of starting with the puck at lower than top-speed, thus giving him more time and space to get settled before reaching full speed.
I'm glad you brought this up. Jagr actually did sustain an injury at this event in 1994; his first groin injury, which would become a reoccurring problem for the rest of his career. He never really skated the same way after this, he started to use his speed less and less as his career went along not to re-aggravate his groin.

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01-06-2012, 12:57 AM
  #40
Moonrock77
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Originally Posted by begbeee View Post
Did you even watch the video?
Bure participated in NHL All-Star Game in 1993, 1994, 1997, 1998, 2000 and 2001. He never won fastest skater skills competition.
What's funny is that I watched the video, heard the name Pavel Bure but still believed it was Valeri after reading that post.

It's like "what you just saw never actually happened".

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01-06-2012, 01:57 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
I don't think Pavel Bure ever participated in this event, I could be wrong though. His brother Valeri did and he was known to be fast in his own right but the slower of the two brothers.

I was always under the impression that Pavel Bure was too cocky and felt that maybe this event was below him?
Pavel actually did participate in the event a few times throughout his career. When his Vancouver Canucks hosted the event in 1998, there was a minor controversy regarding his competitor's stick positioning. Bure would have won based on body position, but Amonte extended his arm and his stick and triggered the motion detector first. Had Bure done the same, he would have won without question. Instead, he had his arm drooped down.



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01-06-2012, 04:54 AM
  #42
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Jagr is fast, but i dont think these players are giving 100% in this competition.There is no way he is that close to Fedorov.

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08-11-2014, 02:25 PM
  #43
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No, Lindros was more like 6'5" 240 and according to the stories, Eric had to do extra cardio just to keep his weight below 240. One of his teammates once joked that if Lindros just picked up a weight, he would put on 5 lbs of muscle heh.

Jagr was more in the 6'2"/6'3" 225 range.
They are not and were not even remotely close in size no matter what the "official" stats list them at.
The eye test, even from 100 feet away, is won pretty handily by Lindros.

Jagr was a beast but Lindros was a monster and a freak of nature.


I have to ask though, what exactly are you asking? Whether or not Jagr was a speed demon...he wasn't. He was fast for a big man but he wasn't in the same class as a Bure or Selanne for acceleration or agility at top speed.




Not sure I would have him top 5 all-time either but he's definitely up there and quite a bit ahead of where Jagr would place.
If lindros is 6'5" the Lemieux must be 6'6"

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08-11-2014, 02:59 PM
  #44
Fred Taylor
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Originally Posted by Gino37 View Post
If lindros is 6'5" the Lemieux must be 6'6"
I always thought that Lindros was 6'4" and that Lemieux was actually 6'5"

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08-11-2014, 03:00 PM
  #45
tarheelhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
Jagr had a pretty good top end in a straight line and he was a powerful skater but he didn't have the acceleration.
I think this is a good way to characterize it.

You didn't often see Jagr just blowing past defensemen a la Bure, Cournoyer, Orr, Fedorov, etc. Those were guys who could just dust an opponent if they didn't allow a respectful distance.

But... when the Pens got the puck in their own zone and headed north-south up the ice, Jagr was quite often the spearhead of the attack. And imagine as a defenseman, a reasonably fast forward coming at you with the strength and puck skill that Jagr possessed. It commanded respect in a different way, and allowed him a bit of space to build up that momentum.

The 2 ton truck analogy is a good one. Bure etc were like Ferraris. They would win a race from blueline to blueline. The dump truck might take a bit longer to get where it's going, but by that time it's also going REALLY FAST and even harder to stop.

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08-11-2014, 03:25 PM
  #46
livewell68
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Originally Posted by Fred Taylor View Post
I always thought that Lindros was 6'4" and that Lemieux was actually 6'5"
Actually both Lindros and Lemieux were 6'4.

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08-11-2014, 04:04 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by begbeee View Post
Well, he didnt win in 1993 and 1994, so my point still stands.
Jeremy Roenick, 4 for 4.

Ergo, Roenick > Bossy for best sniper ever.

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08-11-2014, 04:24 PM
  #48
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Teemu is one of my favourite players of all-time, but there's no way he's one of the top five fastest players to ever play in the league.

Russ Courtnall is probably the fastest guy I've seen lace em up, and outside of Bure, the top-5 is probably one tool guys like Courtnall. We forget about em, cause they didn't put up amazing numbers, and they never or rarely make it into the all-star game skills comps either.

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08-11-2014, 04:47 PM
  #49
livewell68
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My top for fastest hockey players are

1. Federov

2. Coffey

3. Bure

4. Richard

5. Orr

Followed by Gartner, Bondra, Selanne, Kovalchuk, Gaborik and Niedermayer.

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08-11-2014, 05:30 PM
  #50
Fred Taylor
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Originally Posted by livewell68 View Post
Actually both Lindros and Lemieux were 6'4.
Could have sworn I've seen Lemieux listed as 6'5" before, while I've never seen that for Lindros. Lemieux also just appeared to be a tad bit taller.

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