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Old
01-06-2012, 04:14 PM
  #51
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It's just a broad term to describe key players. Does he make or break the team? No, but he is a fairly important player to the Rangers.

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01-06-2012, 04:18 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I disagree wholeheartedly that Anisimov has anywhere near the impact on Gaborik's resurgence as Stepan. In fact, I think hes been along for the ride more than anything, making him the most expendable.

Lets be clear, Im not saying to get rid of him or anything like that...Im calling him the most likely to go, because hes someone with value that I wouldnt really mind parting with.
You're wrong.

Anisimov's two way play is a big reason that line is able to maintain possession of the puck.

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01-06-2012, 05:34 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by APuckHog View Post
#1 center?

Only the crazy people said that.
Lol you're probably right. I'm a Leafs fan, crazy people is all you have to say.

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01-06-2012, 05:42 PM
  #54
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He's very well liked within the organization. Highly doubt he will be moved.

He's become expendable around here again because Dubinsky has scored a few more goals lately. That and posters always want to tweak the line up even when things are going great.

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01-06-2012, 06:02 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
You're wrong.

Anisimov's two way play is a big reason that line is able to maintain possession of the puck.
I agree that AA's defensive presence on that line has enabled Stepan & Gaborik to have more confidence to take chances on the rush and in the offensive zone....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
He's very well liked within the organization. Highly doubt he will be moved.

He's become expendable around here again because Dubinsky has scored a few more goals lately. That and posters always want to tweak the line up even when things are going great.
I just think fans need to remember to temper their evaluations & subsequent expectations in relation to the player's cap hit.... AA at around $2 mil cap hit and putting up 40-50 points while providing above average defensive play and contributing on the PK is a very good value.... On the flip side, if AA was being paid Dubinsky $$$, fans would look at him in a different light, and rightfully so. As long as he has a cap friendly contract, AA is an asset to this team.... I'm not ready to pencil him in long term yet the way we might do with players like Callahan, McDonagh, Stepan, etc.... Right now he's a good fit.... Needs to work on bringing more consistency to his game in terms of being effective out on the ice...

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01-06-2012, 07:28 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
You're wrong.

Anisimov's two way play is a big reason that line is able to maintain possession of the puck.
Anisimov's 2-way play and defensive prowess are some of the biggest exxagerations on this board.

Hes a solid 2-way player. Certainly not some noteworthy catalyst.

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01-06-2012, 07:34 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Anisimov's 2-way play and defensive prowess are some of the biggest exxagerations on this board.

Hes a solid 2-way player. Certainly not some noteworthy catalyst.
Agreed.

I get accused of trying to get rid of him, but he's really just the player with value who LEAST fits the identity of this team. Dubinsky and Cally epitomize the ranger identity, and I'd still feel this way even if they produced half as much as they do. They are gamers. I want them in the playoffs. Anisimov just doesn't have the it factor that dubi, Cally, step all have in spades.

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01-06-2012, 07:52 PM
  #58
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Anisimov's ceiling is probably going to be 55-60+ points with solid two-way play (not trying to overstate it; he's solid and he will get better - the defensive game always develops for longer than the offensive skills). As he gets a bit older, I imagine he'll become a little more physical, but he'll never be a really physical player. He'll probably become a little bit tougher to play against in the corners and along the boards though.

I don't know why you wouldn't want that to be a long-term fixture. Those are, realistically, very good 2nd line numbers. These boards are plagued by the belief that 80+ points equate to a first liner, 60+ points equates to a 2nd liner and 40ish points is a third liner. The reality, however, is that there are 90 "first line" forwards in the NHL at any given time and only 48 forwards in the entire league broke 60 points last year. Anisimov is on pace for about 46 points this year and still has room for improvement. Combine it with good two-way play and I see absolutely no reason why we would want to let a homegrown player go in favor of anyone else unless it's in a package that brings in an elite player.

Anisimov's two-way play will improve. Combine that with 50+ points a year and you've got a great player who has grown up in our system. I think too many people simply have unrealistic expectations for what makes a "first liner" or "second liner". There is no question that AA will be, at least, a 50 point player. Last year only 97 players, including defenseman, broke 50 points, league wide. AA's production is a lot better, relative to the NHL, than you think. Factor in his two-way game and the fact that he is likely to improve both offensively and defensively, and that he's homegrown and part of the Rangers family that we've got developing here... he's a much better value than you think and, as I said, unless it's part of a package to bring in a truly elite player, I see no reason to even consider excluding AA from the long-term picture. Moving a homegrown kid who will give you 50+ points and good two-way play in favor of an outsider who might score 65 and be a defensive liability (for example) doesn't make sense to me.

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01-06-2012, 08:03 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
Anisimov's ceiling is probably going to be 55-60+ points with solid two-way play (not trying to overstate it; he's solid and he will get better - the defensive game always develops for longer than the offensive skills). As he gets a bit older, I imagine he'll become a little more physical, but he'll never be a really physical player. He'll probably become a little bit tougher to play against in the corners and along the boards though.

I don't know why you wouldn't want that to be a long-term fixture. Those are, realistically, very good 2nd line numbers. These boards are plagued by the belief that 80+ points equate to a first liner, 60+ points equates to a 2nd liner and 40ish points is a third liner. The reality, however, is that there are 90 "first line" forwards in the NHL at any given time and only 48 forwards in the entire league broke 60 points last year. Anisimov is on pace for about 46 points this year and still has room for improvement. Combine it with good two-way play and I see absolutely no reason why we would want to let a homegrown player go in favor of anyone else unless it's in a package that brings in an elite player.

Anisimov's two-way play will improve. Combine that with 50+ points a year and you've got a great player who has grown up in our system. I think too many people simply have unrealistic expectations for what makes a "first liner" or "second liner". There is no question that AA will be, at least, a 50 point player. Last year only 97 players, including defenseman, broke 50 points, league wide. AA's production is a lot better, relative to the NHL, than you think. Factor in his two-way game and the fact that he is likely to improve both offensively and defensively, and that he's homegrown and part of the Rangers family that we've got developing here... he's a much better value than you think and, as I said, unless it's part of a package to bring in a truly elite player, I see no reason to even consider excluding AA from the long-term picture. Moving a homegrown kid who will give you 50+ points and good two-way play in favor of an outsider who might score 65 and be a defensive liability (for example) doesn't make sense to me.
In a vacuum, I'd agree with you. But when looking at this rangers team, we're pretty solid throughout the lineup, but the one thing that could put us over the top is a top LW. You have to give to get, and I'm willing to lose Anisimov and Sauer and a prospect/pick if it means getting bobby Ryan, who is a young proven 30+ goal scorer still oozing with potential, and signed to a GREAT contract for his production. Nobody's suggesting we trade Anisimov for the sake of trading him, but he's likely the odd man out BECAUSE of all the positives you listed. He has value. He's on a good contract. He's young. He has potential to improve. He has a great skillset. For those reasons, he's attractive to other teams, and if we can make a clear upgrade, I wouldn't hesitate to include Anisimov in a bigger package to put us over the top.

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01-06-2012, 08:08 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
In a vacuum, I'd agree with you. But when looking at this rangers team, we're pretty solid throughout the lineup, but the one thing that could put us over the top is a top LW. You have to give to get, and I'm willing to lose Anisimov and Sauer and a prospect/pick if it means getting bobby Ryan, who is a young proven 30+ goal scorer still oozing with potential, and signed to a GREAT contract for his production. Nobody's suggesting we trade Anisimov for the sake of trading him, but he's likely the odd man out BECAUSE of all the positives you listed. He has value. He's on a good contract. He's young. He has potential to improve. He has a great skillset. For those reasons, he's attractive to other teams, and if we can make a clear upgrade, I wouldn't hesitate to include Anisimov in a bigger package to put us over the top.
Well every thing in my post SAYS that the only way it would make sense is in a package for a clear upgrade. The OP seemed to want to suggest that AA was disappointing compared to expectations, which I wanted to make clear should not be the case. I'd hate to move AA at all, on a personal level, because I just like him a lot, but if the package was for the right player, of course you have to be on board.

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01-06-2012, 11:44 PM
  #61
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Artem has continued to develop his game

He has improved the physical aspect of his game, his faceoffs are still not where it needs to be at 46.3% however.

Moving him to the wing has given him the opportunity to focus on creating offense, while his numbers are not eye popping he is a legit threat to score now. His snap shot in Pitt tonight beat MAF cleanly and AA created that chance by himself sandwiched by Pitt defenders. I think that one play is a clear indicator of his ability to score in the NHL.

He is not a #1 center at this point in his career and I don't think many rangers fans ever believed he was a #1.

If AA plays a good defensive game and puts up say 50 points this year I would say it was a very fine season for him, although he is on pace for about 47 points.

If he improves his faceoffs he will become a league leading 3rd liner with the upside of 2nd liner. I think we all hope he reaches 2nd line potential because it will allow NY to focus on acquiring more talent to fill out the areas of "temporary" need rather than a core position which I believe Artem is.

Further having guys like Artem around allows NY to continue bringing up kids and playing them in situations that develop talent instead of throwing prospects out there. Manny Malhotra comes to mind... healthy competition is good for the team and Artem clearly has a relatively high ranking in the NY pecking order.

I am really looking forward to seeing him play in the playoffs

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01-06-2012, 11:56 PM
  #62
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The problem with Anisimov is all about his inability to win faceoffs. He can't do it, and the team seems to have given up on him ever learning how (having Dubinsky take his draws in the past, and full on moving him to the wing this season).

The problem with that is that there really isn't a long-term future for Anisimov on the left wing. If Dubinsky and Kreider aren't manning the left side of the top-6 within two years, something has gone wrong. The PERFECT place for Anisimov is 3rd line center. Stepan and Richards have the first two lines locked down. Boyle can do what he does from the fourth line. A third line of Hagelin/Anisimov/X would be ideal...if AA could win faceoffs.

The team needs to decide what they see as AA's role going forward, and get him as much work as possible in that role. If they see him as a winger, I don't see him as part of the long-term plan. If they see him as a center, they haven't been doing him any favors (he's got to take the draws to learn how to win them).

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01-07-2012, 12:00 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donpaulo View Post
Artem has continued to develop his game

He has improved the physical aspect of his game, his faceoffs are still not where it needs to be at 46.3% however.

Moving him to the wing has given him the opportunity to focus on creating offense, while his numbers are not eye popping he is a legit threat to score now. His snap shot in Pitt tonight beat MAF cleanly and AA created that chance by himself sandwiched by Pitt defenders. I think that one play is a clear indicator of his ability to score in the NHL.

He is not a #1 center at this point in his career and I don't think many rangers fans ever believed he was a #1.

If AA plays a good defensive game and puts up say 50 points this year I would say it was a very fine season for him, although he is on pace for about 47 points.

If he improves his faceoffs he will become a league leading 3rd liner with the upside of 2nd liner. I think we all hope he reaches 2nd line potential because it will allow NY to focus on acquiring more talent to fill out the areas of "temporary" need rather than a core position which I believe Artem is.

Further having guys like Artem around allows NY to continue bringing up kids and playing them in situations that develop talent instead of throwing prospects out there. Manny Malhotra comes to mind... healthy competition is good for the team and Artem clearly has a relatively high ranking in the NY pecking order.

I am really looking forward to seeing him play in the playoffs
See, I don't get this mentality. He's on pace for 46 points this season. He'll definitely be a 50 point player at his peak, if not a bit better and may even hit 50 this year if he heats up a bit. You go on to say that if his faceoff numbers improve, he'll be a great third line/borderline second line center.

The top two lines are composed of 6 players. There are 30 teams in the NHL, thus 6x30=180. 180 top six players. Last season, in the entire NHL, only 97 players, including defensemen, scored 50 points or more. Artem is already a top six player. The expectations people have for what constitutes a "first line player" or a "second line player" are totally out of touch with reality on this website. There are not even close to a full 180 forwards (to fill out all the top-sixes in the league) in the NHL who can consistently put up 45+ points a year, especially not while turning in a decent defensive effort. AA is basically already doing that, at 23 years old and he still has room to improve. He is, without a doubt, a top six player in this league, as is. Now, what ROLE a player is given by a coach is an entirely different thing. But in terms of having the credentials to play in the top six, AA qualifies (even if he has to play on the wing) on at least half the teams in the NHL, as is.

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01-07-2012, 12:07 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
You're wrong.

Anisimov's two way play is a big reason that line is able to maintain possession of the puck.
Not to mention anytime gabby or stepan get in trouble with the puck they dump it behind for anisimov to take care of buisness.

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01-07-2012, 12:20 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
He most certainly has the potential to score 70 points and be great defensively (a 1st line center).
How's about we let him get a 50 point season under his belt before we turn him into Brad Richards...

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01-07-2012, 12:25 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
See, I don't get this mentality. He's on pace for 46 points this season. He'll definitely be a 50 point player at his peak, if not a bit better and may even hit 50 this year if he heats up a bit. You go on to say that if his faceoff numbers improve, he'll be a great third line/borderline second line center.

The top two lines are composed of 6 players. There are 30 teams in the NHL, thus 6x30=180. 180 top six players. Last season, in the entire NHL, only 97 players, including defensemen, scored 50 points or more. Artem is already a top six player. The expectations people have for what constitutes a "first line player" or a "second line player" are totally out of touch with reality on this website. There are not even close to a full 180 forwards (to fill out all the top-sixes in the league) in the NHL who can consistently put up 45+ points a year, especially not while turning in a decent defensive effort. AA is basically already doing that, at 23 years old and he still has room to improve. He is, without a doubt, a top six player in this league, as is. Now, what ROLE a player is given by a coach is an entirely different thing. But in terms of having the credentials to play in the top six, AA qualifies (even if he has to play on the wing) on at least half the teams in the NHL, as is.
I think the main issue is that a lot of posters here live in two worlds.

1) The NHL from their childhood, where a bunch of guys scoring 35-50 goals and 95-115 points was the norm.

2) The Playstation world.

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01-07-2012, 12:28 AM
  #67
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I think the main issue is that a lot of posters here live in two worlds.

1) The NHL from their childhood, where a bunch of guys scoring 35-50 goals and 95-115 points was the norm.

2) The Playstation world.
Yeah. I tend to think it's more of the playstation effect myself, but you have a point about the old NHL as well. Either way... the expectations are way out of whack.

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01-07-2012, 12:39 AM
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Yeah. I tend to think it's more of the playstation effect myself, but you have a point about the old NHL as well. Either way... the expectations are way out of whack.
I mean think about it...in 93-94 Gretzky had 38 goals AND 92 assists. Eight guys went over 100 points and two more had 99 points. 181 guys had 40 or more points. And that was in a league featuring 26 teams. That's 26x6=156 Top-6 players. So back then you could legitimately call 40 points a third line player.

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01-07-2012, 12:45 AM
  #69
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The term 'top 6 player' isn't necessarily a term used to just describe the top 6 players on a team, or the top 180 forwards in the league. Yes technically with 30 teams you need 180 top 6 players, but not all those players are 'top 6 players.'

PAP is the perfect example. He has a 50pt season and plays on a top line, however if you took a poll of HF, there would be very few people who would describe him as a 'top 6 forward' or select him in that spot on a team wanting to make a cup run. yes he's put up the numbers, but quite a bit of that has to do with the fact that he is playing top line minutes with legitimate top 6 players. Likewise, AA will likely put up top 6 type #s as he's given the ice-time.

IMO, in an ideal world, on a cup contender, AA would center a 3rd line, or pinch hit on the 2nd as required. With the salary-cap, it's very hard to get the ideal, but that doesn't mean that everyone playing on the top 2 lines is a 'top 6 forward'.

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01-07-2012, 01:22 AM
  #70
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IMHO Arty has been a superb fit for this team. He has improved every year as a pro, moved seamlessly from center to wing, and has been effective with 4th line bangers, or elite first line scorers. We have enough grit, this guy gives us size, skill, smarts, good skating and way above average defensive awareness.

I may be in the minority here, but I think he has a far higher offensive upside. He has some slick hands, but for some reason this season has struggled with the puck on his stick down low.

He is keeping his head up better, seems coachable and from what I hear is super well liked in the room. Every team needs a player like this, let's just hope he learns a little of the Gabby shake and bake and crazy sweet release. Call me crazy, but I think this guy could become a star in this league.

Plus that machine gun routine against Tampa was just epic!

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01-07-2012, 01:38 AM
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The term 'top 6 player' isn't necessarily a term used to just describe the top 6 players on a team, or the top 180 forwards in the league. Yes technically with 30 teams you need 180 top 6 players, but not all those players are 'top 6 players.'

PAP is the perfect example. He has a 50pt season and plays on a top line, however if you took a poll of HF, there would be very few people who would describe him as a 'top 6 forward' or select him in that spot on a team wanting to make a cup run. yes he's put up the numbers, but quite a bit of that has to do with the fact that he is playing top line minutes with legitimate top 6 players. Likewise, AA will likely put up top 6 type #s as he's given the ice-time.

IMO, in an ideal world, on a cup contender, AA would center a 3rd line, or pinch hit on the 2nd as required. With the salary-cap, it's very hard to get the ideal, but that doesn't mean that everyone playing on the top 2 lines is a 'top 6 forward'.
That's because HF posters' idea of what makes a top six forward is completely unrealistic. Ok, maybe you wouldn't put him in the top six on a Cup competitor, but just because he's not your IDEAL top six forward doesn't mean he's NOT a top six forward. Not every team has the luxury of being built for a deep playoff run; half the teams don't even make the playoffs, yet they all need to ice a full roster including six guys on their top two lines. HF posters have taken the idea of the IDEAL in each position and turned it into the standard. The ideal and the standard, however, in reality, are not always in line with one another and there are plenty of forwards who simply ARE top six forwards even if the almighty HF posting populace disagrees. The armchair GMs on this website (myself often included) think way too highly of their own opinions.

Face it, even if your argument that not all "top-six forwards" are truly top-six forwards has merit, the fact remains that 180 players play IN the top six in the NHL (more in reality, because most lineups aren't static/some players get top six PP minutes but not ES, etc.) and barely 90 forwards scored more than 50 points last year. That's barely HALF the number of players populating the top 6 who actually managed to put up 50+ points. No matter how you slice it, there aren't enough IDEAL top sixers out there for every team to fill their lineup with. That's why the standard for a top six player and the ideal, realistically, can't be the same. So while (to use your own words) the numbers don't necessarily mean that "everyone playing the top 2 lines is a top six forward" it remains a fact that what constitutes a top six forward in reality is far different from what HF posters believe is the requisite for being an effective top six player. Count me the teams that have the perfect, ideal top six... as in there isn't a single player in their top six that would be better suited on a third line or lower.


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01-07-2012, 02:05 AM
  #72
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Anisimov may be a 3rd liner center on this team not because his offensive output is that of a 3rd line center, but because he is not displacing Richards or Stepan in the top 6. It's similar to Staal on the Penguins... he's a 3rd line center on the Pens (when Crosby is healthy, of course), but would be considered a 2nd line center on many other teams.

If we can have a 45-50 point center on our 3rd line, that's pretty sweet. It means we have good depth.

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01-07-2012, 09:32 AM
  #73
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Anisimov may be a 3rd liner center on this team not because his offensive output is that of a 3rd line center, but because he is not displacing Richards or Stepan in the top 6. It's similar to Staal on the Penguins... he's a 3rd line center on the Pens (when Crosby is healthy, of course), but would be considered a 2nd line center on many other teams.

If we can have a 45-50 point center on our 3rd line, that's pretty sweet. It means we have good depth.
This is accurate. It doesn't change the fact that in terms of production AA is capable of playing in most top sixes in the NHL, but like I said in one of my posts, the role of the player is still up to the coach and the team he's on. AA might end up centering our third line, giving us great center depth; that may be where he ultimately fits, and it is a little similar to Staal's situation in Pittsburgh. That's where I see him most likely playing on our roster in the long term. It's not the idea of him playing on the third line that I take exception to. It's the notion of people saying "if he scores x more points per year" or "if he improves blah blah" he'll be a good third/borderline second line player. He could be a top sixer on just about any team in the league. Where he fits and what his role will be is a different story.

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01-07-2012, 09:47 AM
  #74
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He needs to work on the release.

We saw how great his wrist shot is last night when he rang one off the crossbar.

It just takes him too long to get the puck off of his stick.

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01-07-2012, 10:21 AM
  #75
jas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
Anisimov may be a 3rd liner center on this team not because his offensive output is that of a 3rd line center, but because he is not displacing Richards or Stepan in the top 6. It's similar to Staal on the Penguins... he's a 3rd line center on the Pens (when Crosby is healthy, of course), but would be considered a 2nd line center on many other teams.

If we can have a 45-50 point center on our 3rd line, that's pretty sweet. It means we have good depth.

It's a role I think he's suited to play. I have envisioned him as this team's equivalent of Jordan Staal ever since the signing of Richards...it gives the Rangers great depth down the middle. I think once we see Kreider and Miller earn spots in the lineup, 3rd line center will be Anisimov's home for the length of his Rangers career.

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