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Should the Flyers trade their 5th best forward?

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Old
01-06-2012, 05:10 PM
  #1
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Should the Flyers trade their 5th best forward?

Moderators, please don't merge this with any of the other JVR threads that nobody reads any more, everyone should see this.

Keep in mind that many people believe James Van Riemsdyk is playing with an injury. It seems like everyone on this forum wants JVR traded for a defenseman. Apparently he's invisible/garbage/etc.

This is how the Flyers' scoreboard would look if everyone played the same amount of even strength and powerplay time as Claude Giroux:

Goals:

HARTNELL - 19
GIROUX - 18
JVR - 14
JAGR - 14
READ - 14
SIMMONDS - 11
BRIERE - 10
TALBOT - 10
VORACEK - 6
COUTURIER - 6


POINTS

GIROUX - 47
HARTNELL - 37
JAGR - 36
READ - 28
JVR - 27
VORACEK - 26
BRIERE - 25
SIMMONDS - 19
TALBOT - 18
COUTURIER - 16

If you eliminate powerplay time completely, it looks even better for JVR:

GOALS

GIROUX - 13
JVR - 11
READ - 11
HARTNELL - 10
TALBOT - 10
JAGR - 9
BRIERE - 9
VORACEK - 6
COUTURIER - 6
SIMMONDS - 5

POINTS

GIROUX - 28
JAGR - 26
HARTNELL - 25
JVR - 21
READ - 19
VORACEK - 19
TALBOT - 18
COUTURIER - 16
BRIERE - 15
SIMMONDS - 13

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01-06-2012, 05:13 PM
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So if you change reality, he looks better?

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01-06-2012, 05:14 PM
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if JVR gets us Weber, yes.

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01-06-2012, 05:14 PM
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If you want the big name defenseman some one has got to go and IMO Giroux, Schenn and Couturier shouldn't be going anywhere. That leaves only JVR and Voracek for forwards with high value. I don't see much interest in Voracek soo...

Also the reason JVR isn't getting that amount of power play time is because he hasn't been good enough.

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01-06-2012, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
So if you change reality, he looks better?
That's not changing reality, it's accounting for differences in TOI.

JVR has about 224 less minutes of playing time than Claude Giroux, so you can't say he's "invisible" because he has scored less.

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01-06-2012, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Left Circle OneTimer View Post
Also the reason JVR isn't getting that amount of power play time is because he hasn't been good enough.
Based on what? Look at the even strength numbers, he would be second in goal scoring.

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01-06-2012, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryzgalovsky View Post
That's not changing reality, it's accounting for differences in TOI.

JVR has about 224 less minutes of playing time than Claude Giroux, so you can't say he's "invisible" because he has scored less.
taking away important aspects of the game to compensate for his deficiencies isn't reality.

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01-06-2012, 05:19 PM
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well if were gunna trade for a top end dman, we need to give up a top end player aswell..


i'd say as trade bait, that both JVR and Schenn are the 2 guys who might be on the block..

Briere a distant 3rd.

but really i dont see Briere being traded away.

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01-06-2012, 05:20 PM
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if JVR gets us Weber, yes.
What about for someone like Gleason?

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01-06-2012, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryzgalovsky View Post
That's not changing reality, it's accounting for differences in TOI.

JVR has about 224 less minutes of playing time than Claude Giroux, so you can't say he's "invisible" because he has scored less.
The reality is that he hasn't played as much as Giroux or others, because overall he hasn't been as good. He's also likely facing inferior defensive competition. Whether it be due to injury or what, the fact remains that he isn't getting the same as time as Giroux. There's likely a good reason for it.

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01-06-2012, 05:21 PM
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if they traded briere we would would never win another playoff series. lol

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01-06-2012, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by bryzgalovsky View Post
What about for someone like Gleason?
nope. two different levels.

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01-06-2012, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
The reality is that he hasn't played as much as Giroux or others, because overall he hasn't been as good. He's also likely facing inferior defensive competition. Whether it be due to injury or what, the fact remains that he isn't getting the same as time as Giroux. There's likely a good reason for it.
Yeah, even though he's second in even strength scoring, "he hasn't been as good."

He hasn't gotten time on ice because he's injured or because there's no room on the Giroux line for him, not because he sucks like ignorant people like to believe.

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01-06-2012, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by bryzgalovsky View Post
Yeah, even though he's second in even strength scoring, "he hasn't been as good."

He hasn't gotten time on ice because he's injured or because there's no room on the Giroux line for him, not because he sucks like ignorant people like to believe.
maybe there is no room on the PP unit or grioux's line because he hasn't been playing as well as he should?

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01-06-2012, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by BAUCE View Post
maybe there is no room on the PP unit or grioux's line because he hasn't been playing as well as he should?
his stats show that he has been playing as well as he should

or at least as good as/better than everyone who isn't on the top line

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01-06-2012, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryzgalovsky View Post
Yeah, even though he's second in even strength scoring, "he hasn't been as good."

He hasn't gotten time on ice because he's injured or because there's no room on the Giroux line for him, not because he sucks like ignorant people like to believe.
...Yeah, he hasn't been as good. Have you been watching him? There's a reason he's 15th on the team in GFON/60.

Edit: "5th Best Forward" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement or high praise, either.

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01-06-2012, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by bryzgalovsky View Post
his stats show that he has been playing as well as he should

or at least as good as/better than everyone who isn't on the top line
Watch a game okay? If we can ship him for weber or suter we do it the second its offered and do not look back.

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01-06-2012, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
...Yeah, he hasn't been as good. Have you been watching him? There's a reason he's 15th on the team in GFON/60.

Edit: "5th Best Forward" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement or high praise, either.
Yeah, I have been watching every game so far, and people see what they want to see. Just like people still hate Hartnell and will claim that all of his goals/assists are the work of Giroux.

This team has one of the best offenses in the league, and that means TOI is getting shared more evenly, so naturally everyone's production is limited beyond the top line.

He'll get shipped to another team, heal up, and then I'll laugh whenever people try and pin it on Holmgren when he goes on to be as good as predicted.

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01-06-2012, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by bryzgalovsky View Post
Yeah, I have been watching every game so far, and people see what they want to see. Just like people still hate Hartnell and will claim that all of his goals/assists are the work of Giroux.

This team has one of the best offenses in the league, and that means TOI is getting shared more evenly, so naturally everyone's production is limited beyond the top line.

He'll get shipped to another team, heal up, and then I'll laugh whenever people try and pin it on Holmgren when he goes on to be as good as predicted.
And we would care why if we got Weber?

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01-06-2012, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryzgalovsky View Post
Yeah, I have been watching every game so far, and people see what they want to see. Just like people still hate Hartnell and will claim that all of his goals/assists are the work of Giroux.

This team has one of the best offenses in the league, and that means TOI is getting shared more evenly, so naturally everyone's production is limited beyond the top line.

He'll get shipped to another team, heal up, and then I'll laugh whenever people try and pin it on Holmgren when he goes on to be as good as predicted.
I mean, good for you I guess. I'm not in the "trade him for anything!" party...unless it's for Weber, and I agree that it's likely he'll be damned good when he puts it together and is healthy. This year, though, he isn't terribly great and he isn't healthy.

Normally if you said "hey, how about trading a middle of the pack forward?" my first response would probably be "sure, who would be coming back?"

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01-06-2012, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Left Circle OneTimer View Post
And we would care why if we got Weber?
We lose some of our offense and gain defense in front of a goalie who's going to let easy shots in regardless who's in front of him. In fact the less shots he faces it seems like he's more likely to let one in.

Which means we'll lose even more often.

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01-06-2012, 05:54 PM
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... and then I'll laugh whenever people try and pin it on Holmgren when he goes on to be as good as predicted.
As good as a 2nd overall?

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01-06-2012, 06:01 PM
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As good as a 2nd overall?
When you consider that almost nobody good came out of the draft that year, nobody was expecting him to be that good.

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01-06-2012, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by bryzgalovsky View Post
We lose some of our offense and gain defense in front of a goalie who's going to let easy shots in regardless who's in front of him. In fact the less shots he faces it seems like he's more likely to let one in.

Which means we'll lose even more often.
Read this and preferably whats in the other link if you have time. Im sure Bob will appreciate Weber/Suter or Bryzgalov if he ever decides to be decent.

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=4...7&postcount=38

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01-06-2012, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
...Yeah, he hasn't been as good. Have you been watching him? There's a reason he's 15th on the team in GFON/60.

Edit: "5th Best Forward" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement or high praise, either.
Top 6 Forward - sounds nicer... having said that. He is still VERY young.... if we trade him, it should/better be for someone more than Gleason if we are going the D route.

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