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Should the Flyers trade their 5th best forward?

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Old
01-06-2012, 07:01 PM
  #26
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5th best? according to what? points? JVR might have a lot of points but for many games out there he is frankly invisible. You don't see him getting many scoring chances and he's just not there when trying to help out defensively. There are many more forwards than just 4 on this team that I'd say have been better than JVR.

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01-06-2012, 07:04 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryzgalovsky View Post
When you consider that almost nobody good came out of the draft that year, nobody was expecting him to be that good.
??

Kane, Alzner, Couture, Shattenkirk, Pacioretty, Blum, Subban, Benn. Those are just the bigger names. But I guess you're right, nobody good came out after JVR at number 2

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01-06-2012, 07:07 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Philadelphia Ducks View Post
??

Kane, Alzner, Couture, Shattenkirk, Pacioretty, Blum, Subban, Benn. Those are just the bigger names. But I guess you're right, nobody good came out after JVR at number 2
Apart from Kane, who out of those is better than JVR?

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01-06-2012, 07:12 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by bryzgalovsky View Post
Apart from Kane, who out of those is better than JVR?
Benn, Couture, Subban, Shattenkirk

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01-06-2012, 07:15 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Philadelphia Ducks View Post
Benn, Couture, Subban, Shattenkirk

No._______

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01-06-2012, 07:17 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by bryzgalovsky View Post
No._______
No to Shattenkirk i hope? The rest are clearly better than JVR up to this point and Benn is already the best player on a team that has forwards like eriksson, Ribiero and Morrow.

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01-06-2012, 07:18 PM
  #32
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I was waiting for Van Useless to find a few gaping empty nets so I could enjoy this thread!

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01-06-2012, 07:18 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by bryzgalovsky View Post
No._______
lol ok
Have fun with those blinders on.

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01-06-2012, 07:37 PM
  #34
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This thread and this board seem to be uneducated about JvR....

Since a young age, James has never been a real "creator" or "playmaker"...people its so simple, if James is put with an elite passer he will perform.

Who'd he play with in the playoffs? Giroux?

Who'd he play with in the WJC? Schroeder and Wilson (two high profile speedsters).

Hell in his two years of high school he played with the first line.

Lets face it Flyers fans, Danny Briere does not look very good in even strength ice times this year lol, not sure what it is but #48 seems a step slow 5 on 5.

Put him on a line with Giroux, he puts up close to a point per game. His skill set does not match Briere and Simmonds.

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01-06-2012, 07:46 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by usahockey22flyers View Post
This thread and this board seem to be uneducated about JvR....

Since a young age, James has never been a real "creator" or "playmaker"...people its so simple, if James is put with an elite passer he will perform.

Who'd he play with in the playoffs? Giroux?

Who'd he play with in the WJC? Schroeder and Wilson (two high profile speedsters).

Hell in his two years of high school he played with the first line.

Lets face it Flyers fans, Danny Briere does not look very good in even strength ice times this year lol, not sure what it is but #48 seems a step slow 5 on 5.

Put him on a line with Giroux, he puts up close to a point per game. His skill set does not match Briere and Simmonds.
Where were you the beginning of the season?

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01-06-2012, 07:47 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usahockey22flyers View Post
This thread and this board seem to be uneducated about JvR....

Since a young age, James has never been a real "creator" or "playmaker"...people its so simple, if James is put with an elite passer he will perform.

Who'd he play with in the playoffs? Giroux?

Who'd he play with in the WJC? Schroeder and Wilson (two high profile speedsters).

Hell in his two years of high school he played with the first line.

Lets face it Flyers fans, Danny Briere does not look very good in even strength ice times this year lol, not sure what it is but #48 seems a step slow 5 on 5.

Put him on a line with Giroux, he puts up close to a point per game. His skill set does not match Briere and Simmonds.
So for a 2nd overall pick to perform up to expectations we just have to put him with arguably the best player in hockey right now. When a player is picked that high he's suppose to pick up the players around him and be able to dominate on his own, he doesn't need to have the best players in the world around him to play that good.

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01-06-2012, 09:00 PM
  #37
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'Canes fans were tweeting about Flyers scouts at their game tonight, checking in on Gleason.

Wonder how JVR is going to like North Carolina...

EDIT: Flyers scouts also spotted at the Preds game. Weber?

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01-06-2012, 09:06 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by SedinSandwich View Post
'Canes fans were tweeting about Flyers scouts at their game tonight, checking in on Gleason.

Wonder how JVR is going to like North Carolina...

EDIT: Flyers scouts also spotted at the Preds game. Weber?
When was that?

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01-06-2012, 09:20 PM
  #39
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Yesterday...

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@Cellblock303 Cellblock 303
Scouts in attendance for tonight's #Preds #Stars game: #NHLJets, #RedWings, #Avs, #CBJ, #Flyers and #Canes. #NHL

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01-06-2012, 09:33 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SedinSandwich View Post
'Canes fans were tweeting about Flyers scouts at their game tonight, checking in on Gleason.

Wonder how JVR is going to like North Carolina...

EDIT: Flyers scouts also spotted at the Preds game. Weber?
I like Gleason. But he can be had for a pick and a prospect.

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01-06-2012, 09:56 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
I like Gleason. But he can be had for a pick and a prospect.
and by pick you mean 3rd or later right?

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01-06-2012, 10:21 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryzgalovsky View Post
No._______
There are people on this board who would drive out to San Jose to pick up Couture and bring him back here.

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01-06-2012, 10:22 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Left Circle OneTimer View Post
Where were you the beginning of the season?
It's called Chemistry. Him and Jagr play similar styles.

I'd be intrigued to see James-G-Read.

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Old
01-06-2012, 10:51 PM
  #44
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Plain and simple? Would I consider trading Jvr? Yes, as long as its in a package for a top flight top pairing defenseman such as weber or suter.

Would I trade Jvr for Gleason? Absolutely not, and I'd hope homer wouldn't be that stupid.

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01-06-2012, 11:14 PM
  #45
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Just being practical and looking at certain team dynamics, here's my take on the possibility of certain players being traded:

Couturier: Is our best defensive center/forward, is only 19 years old, shows 70+ point upside along w/ Selke caliber defense. He is on the ice whenever Lavvy needs our guys to shut down the opposing team's offense. He's also our best or 2nd best PKer. He plays an important role on this team and I don't think he's replaceable. He is also roommates w/ Danny B. Just don't see the Flyers upsetting that arrangement or getting rid of a stud 19 year old like Couturier. Highly unlikely he is moved.

Schenn: Is our best offensive prospect, is only 20 years old and has gigantic upside. In the past few games, he's proven quite responsible defensively and has been winning draws... something this team could really use. He also has a goal and an assist in his last 2 games and seems to be heating up offensively. Additionally, he is ROOMMATES W/ CLAUDE GIROUX. I seriously doubt this team does anything to mess w/ Claude's living arrangement @ this point. When you add in the fact that he was the center-piece of the Richards deal, I don't see him going anywhere for anything less than a giant overpayment.

Danny B: No movement clause + complicated situation w/ his ex wife / over custody of kids + Couturier as roommate = NO CHANCE HE IS TRADED.

Scott Hartnell: One of the locker room leaders of the team, perfect chemistry w/ Giroux, etc. I just don't see him being moved after he stepped his game up, cut out the stupid penalties and has been doing everything his coach has asked of him. I actually see him as a potential future captain (but that's just my opinion).

--------------------------------------------------------------

Of our "most valuable" assets that would be capable of netting us a #1 (or potential #1) defenseman, the only guys that are left are JVR & Voracek.

JVR: 22 years old, hasn't taken that next step forward like some have wanted, although in fairness, he is injured and before said injury, he had 8g, 16pts in 19 games. The organization still thinks very highly of JVR IMO and they just gave him a giant long-term deal. I think they would be very hesitant to move him, considering all of these factors.

Voracek: 22 years old, was thought of as an underachiever (for his talent level) in Columbus. He seems to have taken that next step here in Philly as he has been amazing on the puck, has worked incredibly hard on the back-check, and on many nights has looked like the best player on the ice (even including G). But, he's an RFA this offseason, the Flyers didn't draft him / have no ties to him, and his value has definitely gone up since acquiring him. If we were to make a trade for a #1, I see him as the most likely piece to be going elsewhere, unfortunately.


------------------------------------------

Looking at everything, I just think it's way, way, way more likely that we acquire a guy like Gleason than someone like Weber or Yandle or OEL or (insert other #1 defenseman here). I just don't see the Flyers as being willing to give up the top-end talent necessary to acquire one of these guys, and rightfully so. We have an excellent young team here... no reason to blow it up (again).

Now if somehow the Predators are out of it and Suter is available @ the deadline as a rental and he commands a normal "rental" price (1st + roster player + mid prospect), then all bets are off about what I said about acquiring a #1. I could see us trading something like 1st + Simmonds + Akeson for Suter.

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01-06-2012, 11:14 PM
  #46
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They just signed him to a 6 year extension. The flyers can't keep signing guys that long term and then immediately trading them. Eventually they will get a reputation and it will come around to bite them in the ass.

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01-06-2012, 11:49 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
Just being practical and looking at certain team dynamics, here's my take on the possibility of certain players being traded:

Couturier: Is our best defensive center/forward, is only 19 years old, shows 70+ point upside along w/ Selke caliber defense. He is on the ice whenever Lavvy needs our guys to shut down the opposing team's offense. He's also our best or 2nd best PKer. He plays an important role on this team and I don't think he's replaceable. He is also roommates w/ Danny B. Just don't see the Flyers upsetting that arrangement or getting rid of a stud 19 year old like Couturier. Highly unlikely he is moved.

Schenn: Is our best offensive prospect, is only 20 years old and has gigantic upside. In the past few games, he's proven quite responsible defensively and has been winning draws... something this team could really use. He also has a goal and an assist in his last 2 games and seems to be heating up offensively. Additionally, he is ROOMMATES W/ CLAUDE GIROUX. I seriously doubt this team does anything to mess w/ Claude's living arrangement @ this point. When you add in the fact that he was the center-piece of the Richards deal, I don't see him going anywhere for anything less than a giant overpayment.

Danny B: No movement clause + complicated situation w/ his ex wife / over custody of kids + Couturier as roommate = NO CHANCE HE IS TRADED.

Scott Hartnell: One of the locker room leaders of the team, perfect chemistry w/ Giroux, etc. I just don't see him being moved after he stepped his game up, cut out the stupid penalties and has been doing everything his coach has asked of him. I actually see him as a potential future captain (but that's just my opinion).

--------------------------------------------------------------

Of our "most valuable" assets that would be capable of netting us a #1 (or potential #1) defenseman, the only guys that are left are JVR & Voracek.

JVR: 22 years old, hasn't taken that next step forward like some have wanted, although in fairness, he is injured and before said injury, he had 8g, 16pts in 19 games. The organization still thinks very highly of JVR IMO and they just gave him a giant long-term deal. I think they would be very hesitant to move him, considering all of these factors.

Voracek: 22 years old, was thought of as an underachiever (for his talent level) in Columbus. He seems to have taken that next step here in Philly as he has been amazing on the puck, has worked incredibly hard on the back-check, and on many nights has looked like the best player on the ice (even including G). But, he's an RFA this offseason, the Flyers didn't draft him / have no ties to him, and his value has definitely gone up since acquiring him. If we were to make a trade for a #1, I see him as the most likely piece to be going elsewhere, unfortunately.


------------------------------------------

Looking at everything, I just think it's way, way, way more likely that we acquire a guy like Gleason than someone like Weber or Yandle or OEL or (insert other #1 defenseman here). I just don't see the Flyers as being willing to give up the top-end talent necessary to acquire one of these guys, and rightfully so. We have an excellent young team here... no reason to blow it up (again).

Now if somehow the Predators are out of it and Suter is available @ the deadline as a rental and he commands a normal "rental" price (1st + roster player + mid prospect), then all bets are off about what I said about acquiring a #1. I could see us trading something like 1st + Simmonds + Akeson for Suter.
i agree with everything you've said except for the bolded.

voracek is on pace for 50 points and has taken large stretches of time off.

i would hardly say that he's "taken the next step"

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01-07-2012, 12:39 AM
  #48
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i agree with everything you've said except for the bolded.

voracek is on pace for 50 points and has taken large stretches of time off.

i would hardly say that he's "taken the next step"
Voracek in the last 10-15 games has been one of our best players. If he conintues to play like he has he will be very valuable. He seems to be learning alot from Jagr. From someone who watched the jackets last season for a few games, I can tell u he looks like a different player. Last season he was juat like Zherdev. Looks like he has changed and hopefully will keep it up.

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01-07-2012, 12:55 AM
  #49
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They just signed him to a 6 year extension. The flyers can't keep signing guys that long term and then immediately trading them. Eventually they will get a reputation and it will come around to bite them in the ass.
I dont think Holmgren cares about reputation.
I like JVR. But if the Preds want JVR for Weber, I will drive him to the airport.

As far as Gleason goes, a 3rd and a kid off the Phantoms gets it done just so the Flyers can lose a contract.

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01-07-2012, 12:58 AM
  #50
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I dont think Holmgren cares about reputation.
I like JVR. But if the Preds want JVR for Weber, I will drive him to the airport.

As far as Gleason goes, a 3rd and a kid off the Phantoms gets it done just so the Flyers can lose a contract.
i agree that our defense needs an addition

but do you guys think gleason is worth using our limited cap space from LTIR on?

gleason hasn't exactly been good this season or last season, and even canes fans seem to think he's terrible.

i don't know if gleason will help enough to warrant using the extra cap space we have.

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