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Old
01-06-2012, 08:06 PM
  #151
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That's a tech? Wow, the NBA has become a ***** league.

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01-06-2012, 08:12 PM
  #152
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Rough night for Demar.

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01-06-2012, 08:26 PM
  #153
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I hate seeing no name players taking crucial jumpshots in the 4th quarter. "Just pass it to Will!", ie Andrea.

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01-06-2012, 08:27 PM
  #154
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games like that should be expected from this team, especially with it being a short season. growing pains.

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01-06-2012, 08:34 PM
  #155
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Blow it up. Trade everybody. Fire Casey.


Side note: Even in the loss, the Raptors held New Jersey to 39% shooting and under 100 points.

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01-06-2012, 11:11 PM
  #156
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This looked like last years team on the floor tonight . I guess the scrubs looked at the Nets record and thought they could get theirs tonight .

Jose put up good numbers but he really needs to understand that the offense has to go through Bargs or this teams going to lose . I don't know how many times Bargs would go mins without touching the ball on offense . Jose looked like he was trying to get everyone the ball but Bargs tonight .

DD struggled tonight but he has to still play D even if his shot isn't falling . No ones going to be hot every night but younger players tend to let it effect there overall game when there not putting up points .

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01-07-2012, 01:07 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
except that he's had 7 boards in 3 of the 6 games so far. Not great totals by any means, but Casey has in fact generated an improvement in Bargnani's rebounding effort.

New Jersey is just a particularly strong rebounding team.
Meh, getting seven boards in half your games is not something worth noting. His 6 rebounds a game has to be the lowest among 4's in the NBA. It's just a frustrating part of his game that I think he could fix with effort and more will.

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01-07-2012, 02:13 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Eytinge View Post
Meh, getting seven boards in half your games is not something worth noting. His 6 rebounds a game has to be the lowest among 4's in the NBA. It's just a frustrating part of his game that I think he could fix with effort and more will.
Dirk avg'd like 7/game last yr lol

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Old
01-07-2012, 09:21 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
This looked like last years team on the floor tonight . I guess the scrubs looked at the Nets record and thought they could get theirs tonight .

Jose put up good numbers but he really needs to understand that the offense has to go through Bargs or this teams going to lose . I don't know how many times Bargs would go mins without touching the ball on offense . Jose looked like he was trying to get everyone the ball but Bargs tonight .

DD struggled tonight but he has to still play D even if his shot isn't falling . No ones going to be hot every night but younger players tend to let it effect there overall game when there not putting up points .
Why am I not surprised you posted this?

You go on about how DeMar needs to play defense, and the only Bargs mention is that he didn't get the ball enough.

Kris Humphries got 9 (!) offensive rebounds. 9. Are you going to blame that on DeMar too?

Ridiculous.

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01-07-2012, 11:13 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by 91Kadri91 View Post
Why am I not surprised you posted this?

You go on about how DeMar needs to play defense, and the only Bargs mention is that he didn't get the ball enough.

Kris Humphries got 9 (!) offensive rebounds. 9. Are you going to blame that on DeMar too?

Ridiculous.
I've said before that both DD and Bargs need to get touches consistently . DD had a rough night and since it was the guards that lit us up who should take the blame . Also i didn't blame DD for anything and i wasn't the one who limited him to only 27 mins last night .

D-Will blew by whoever was covering him and that made the bigs come over to cover for them and this left no one on Hump . The Nets had 4 more o-boards as a team than us and when you consider they shot only 38 % there's going to be a few extra boards to grab . We switcthed to zone to limit D-Wills damage and they knocked down a bunch of 3's .

Losing to teams with strong guards is nothing new for us . It's pretty typical actually .

Hump was the only player on the nets with more than 5 boards last night . We didn't lose because of rebounds we lost because we couldn't limit d-wills penetration .

On O Jose refused to move the ball to Bargs . He was looking for anyone but Bargs . DD forced a few shots early and Jose did nothing to try to get him an easy bucket to try to get him going .

You seem to think that DD has some Kobe lite potential and if he takes enough shots he will develop into some star type player . Your going to be very disppointed because he doesn't have 1st option star type upside .

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01-07-2012, 11:15 AM
  #161
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i think we should trade for durant

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01-07-2012, 11:32 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
I've said before that both DD and Bargs need to get touches consistently . DD had a rough night and since it was the guards that lit us up who should take the blame . Also i didn't blame DD for anything and i wasn't the one who limited him to only 27 mins last night .

D-Will blew by whoever was covering him and that made the bigs come over to cover for them and this left no one on Hump . The Nets had 4 more o-boards as a team than us and when you consider they shot only 38 % there's going to be a few extra boards to grab . We switcthed to zone to limit D-Wills damage and they knocked down a bunch of 3's .

Losing to teams with strong guards is nothing new for us . It's pretty typical actually .

Hump was the only player on the nets with more than 5 boards last night . We didn't lose because of rebounds we lost because we couldn't limit d-wills penetration .

On O Jose refused to move the ball to Bargs . He was looking for anyone but Bargs . DD forced a few shots early and Jose did nothing to try to get him an easy bucket to try to get him going .

You seem to think that DD has some Kobe lite potential and if he takes enough shots he will develop into some star type player . Your going to be very disppointed because he doesn't have 1st option star type upside .
You completely ignored my post, so I really shouldn't be re-posting, but I can't get over how ridiculous this post is.

My post was about Bargnani, and your inability to notice his deficiencies (ie. rebounding/defense), while constantly noticing and discussing DeMar's. Your post was a ramble about rebounding not being an issue, and Bargs being some sort of god, while DeMar isn't Kobe lite. Knock-knock buddy, why are you rambling on about this? It doesn't make sense.

Where the hell did I say anything about DeMar taking more shots would allow him to achieve unrealistic expectations? Please, find that for me. Actually, don't, you'll never find it, and I wouldn't want to waste your 'oh-so-precious' time.

I didn't, and wouldn't, say that DeMar played a great game last night, because he didn't, but I'm going to give you something to ponder; neither did Bargnani.

Sorry to break it to you, but Bargnani has his deficiencies.

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Old
01-07-2012, 12:04 PM
  #163
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I wouldn't bother, hotpaws constantly rips on DD.

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Old
01-07-2012, 03:15 PM
  #164
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So i'm ripping on DD because i think that even if he's not having a good offensive night i should expect him to give an effort on D ?

Now if you want to talk about Bargs D thats fine . Playing D is much more than just rebounding . His man D is good , his help D is mediocre but improving and they also have him playing up top for the most part and he is doing what the coach is asking of him .

Bargs is avg 5.4 defensive rebounds a game which 32nd in the league . There are only 12 players that avg 7 or more defensive rebounds at this moment .

Where Bargs has been piss poor is his offensive boards . The reason for this is his poor rebounding instincts combined with playing outside as well as Casey having him get back on D instead of going to the offensive glass .

Now in saying this i'm not trying to imply that Bargs is actually a decent rebounder . I'm just pointing put that he's not as bad as some people think . Also , the reason i broke down his rebound stats is that you mentioned Bargs D .

I also didn't ignore your post 91Kadri91 . You mentioned Humps 9 O boards to slag Bargs . The fact is however that Bargs wasn't the only one covering him and Casey usually has Bargs up top so your blame should go elsewhere . I also didn't say rebounding wasn't an issue but the nets only grabbed 4 more O-boards than we did and 5 overall . This isn't what i would call getting killed on the glass . Also don't forget they shot a brutal 39% from the field which gives them a few extra boards to go after .


Last edited by hotpaws: 01-07-2012 at 03:30 PM.
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Old
01-07-2012, 04:04 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
So i'm ripping on DD because i think that even if he's not having a good offensive night i should expect him to give an effort on D ?

Now if you want to talk about Bargs D thats fine . Playing D is much more than just rebounding . His man D is good , his help D is mediocre but improving and they also have him playing up top for the most part and he is doing what the coach is asking of him .

Bargs is avg 5.4 defensive rebounds a game which 32nd in the league . There are only 12 players that avg 7 or more defensive rebounds at this moment .

Where Bargs has been piss poor is his offensive boards . The reason for this is his poor rebounding instincts combined with playing outside as well as Casey having him get back on D instead of going to the offensive glass .

Now in saying this i'm not trying to imply that Bargs is actually a decent rebounder . I'm just pointing put that he's not as bad as some people think . Also , the reason i broke down his rebound stats is that you mentioned Bargs D .

I also didn't ignore your post 91Kadri91 . You mentioned Humps 9 O boards to slag Bargs . The fact is however that Bargs wasn't the only one covering him and Casey usually has Bargs up top so your blame should go elsewhere . I also didn't say rebounding wasn't an issue but the nets only grabbed 4 more O-boards than we did and 5 overall . This isn't what i would call getting killed on the glass . Also don't forget they shot a brutal 39% from the field which gives them a few extra boards to go after .
I would go more in-depth, but there's only a couple relevant points in your post.

First of all, I'm well aware there's much more to defense then just rebounding, but unlike you, I'm able to tell the difference between good and not-so-good defense. Bargnani is a fairly good man-to-man defender. His help-defense, however, is nowhere near mediocre, it's simply awful. That, however, can be covered up (to an extent) with a good defensive system (which we've seen). This brings me to my second point.

You claim that rebounding is a team responsibility which is, to an extent, true. It's funny though, that you fail to realize that defense is also a team responsibility.

Our defensive system is set-up in a way that helps our bigs. We (the Raptors) collapse on the inside, making it very difficult for opposing teams to get easy baskets by clogging the lane, and forcing passes to the outside. I, personally, really like this system, however it can leave the perimeter wide-open, which was shown in last nights game. It's the teams responsibility to be aware if this and help each other out, not one player's.

Oh well, continue living in your dream world, in which DeMar is an NBA D-Leaguer and Andrea Bargnani is the next coming of Larry Bird.

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Old
01-07-2012, 04:14 PM
  #166
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Not sure about last night's game, but there was only 14,468 in attendance for the Cavs game the other night.

Anyone else find that a little troubling?

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01-07-2012, 04:21 PM
  #167
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I wouldn't bother, hotpaws constantly rips on DD.
Yeah, I really shouldn't.

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01-07-2012, 04:33 PM
  #168
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i think we should trade for durant
and Howard while we're at it.

And again, on RealGM there is another multi-page thread about Westbrook on the raptors forum. Save yourself the heartbreak, he's not coming here. He will resign in OKC, when all is said and done.

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01-07-2012, 05:16 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by 91Kadri91 View Post
I would go more in-depth, but there's only a couple relevant points in your post.

First of all, I'm well aware there's much more to defense then just rebounding, but unlike you, I'm able to tell the difference between good and not-so-good defense. Bargnani is a fairly good man-to-man defender. His help-defense, however, is nowhere near mediocre, it's simply awful. That, however, can be covered up (to an extent) with a good defensive system (which we've seen). This brings me to my second point.

You claim that rebounding is a team responsibility which is, to an extent, true. It's funny though, that you fail to realize that defense is also a team responsibility.

Our defensive system is set-up in a way that helps our bigs. We (the Raptors) collapse on the inside, making it very difficult for opposing teams to get easy baskets by clogging the lane, and forcing passes to the outside. I, personally, really like this system, however it can leave the perimeter wide-open, which was shown in last nights game. It's the teams responsibility to be aware if this and help each other out, not one player's.

Oh well, continue living in your dream world, in which DeMar is an NBA D-Leaguer and Andrea Bargnani is the next coming of Larry Bird.
So most of my points are irrelevant because they go against your opion that Bargs is among the worst defensive rebounders in the NBA ?

Our team D gets exposed because overall we're below avg man D defenders . Jose's our worst and gets torched by any good pg . There is no system that can cover up when the oposition is getting in the paint at will . If we had a dominate Big defender this would cover up this problem wthout having to collaspe our entire D but since we don't we get burned when they kick the ball out .

Also , I have always said defense is a team game , but everyone has to contribute or the D falls apart .

One last thing about rebounding , I couldn't care less if all our bigs avg 3 boards a game and just concentrated on boxing out and letting our smalls grab the boards . To me this would limit the other teams O boards more than just trying to out jump the other team for rebounds .

The problem you have with me and my opinion about DD is that you don't think there's any middle ground between superstar and scrub . I think DD's absolute ceiling is just below a star level player . I don't know if will get there but i do believe he could easily be a quality piece on a winning team if he becomes a slightly better and more consistent defender as well as a rebounder and improves in his understanding of how to fit into the flow of our teams offense as opposed to trying to become a great iso player ( which i don't think he will ever become ) .

My views on Bargs are that he'll never become a good overall rebounder . His D boards aren't that bad which i have already shown .His man D has for the most part has always been good . His help D is mediocre not awful regardless of your opinion . ( for some reason it seems when the D breaks down it's always his fault which is flipping retarded ) .

I don't think he's the second coming of Bird but he's played great so far this year . On offense his eff. is way up and he's moving the ball extremly well and finding his teamates for quality looks . He's not forcing shots and not just settling for j's . He's driving to the basket hard and getting to the line . He draws fouls and double teams which opens up the floor for his teamates . He's upped his entire game this year and i'm giving the guy some credit after him being the whipping boy for years . Alot of fans have hated this guy for so long they can't accept that he's gotten off to a great start . It's still very early so it remains to be seen if he can keep it up however .

This isn't a DD vs. Bargs battle for control of the team like you seem to think it is . Neither of them are good enough to take over the team and lead us anywhere . We still need alot of help and that should be coming this off season in J-Val and the draft pick .

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01-07-2012, 05:37 PM
  #170
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and Howard while we're at it.

And again, on RealGM there is another multi-page thread about Westbrook on the raptors forum. Save yourself the heartbreak, he's not coming here. He will resign in OKC, when all is said and done.
The funnier thing isn't that Westbrook won't be trade to the Raptors, it's that Westbrook is entirely the wrong fit for this team.

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01-07-2012, 05:40 PM
  #171
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The funnier thing isn't that Westbrook won't be trade to the Raptors, it's that Westbrook is entirely the wrong fit for this team.
This.

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01-07-2012, 05:54 PM
  #172
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The funnier thing isn't that Westbrook won't be trade to the Raptors, it's that Westbrook is entirely the wrong fit for this team.
Allthough Westbrook is a bit of a chucker, a guy like him is exactly what we need. He gets to the basket. Gets FTs From there he creates.
Maybe a Rondo would be better for us but a Rondo needs the huge scorers to play the way he does. Westbrook IMO doesn't need that. He can shoot, pass, drive, and create.

I get frustrated watching Jose knowing he can't drive and he looks to pass 50 times before taking a shot. He runs out the clock and then he gives a last ditch effort to someone. Historically he does this. Now he's improved that this year but I'm not falling for him after years of poor play.

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01-07-2012, 07:19 PM
  #173
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Lol, Philly is showing very little interest in rebounding. 2 different sixers just stood there and gawked while Amir got a free putback.

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01-07-2012, 07:41 PM
  #174
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I was just about to post that Carter has done very little over the last few games to make an impact, then he made that pretty solid putback shot. Also Davis looks good again tonight so far.

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01-07-2012, 07:43 PM
  #175
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Barbosa ****ing sucks. He is talented but so dumb.

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