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2011-12 All Purpose Kings Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread II

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01-07-2012, 09:35 PM
  #301
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
You guys are saying that now because we're going through some tough times. I still think DL's going to push for the cup this year.
I think he will as well, and he will end-up making deal"s" that will harm the long term future of the team. This team is more then Iginla from competing for the cup.


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01-07-2012, 09:36 PM
  #302
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You guys are saying that now because we're going through some tough times. I still think DL's going to push for the cup this year.
No, I'm not. This team is not even close to being a Cup contender. They are in no position to start trading first round picks for players who may or may not have a few years left in the tank, and most certainly won't guarantee a Cup. This team's problems go far deeper than what one player can provide. Iginla won't magically make Kopitar stop shooting into goalies' chests or Williams stop blowing all of the scoring chances he gets or make the Kings stop playing a stationary perimeter game. He won't make the entire team all of a sudden learn how to make quick, crisp passes. He won't make them learn how to support each other on attack.

The Kings have zero offensive potential in the system minus Toffoli, and even he's a question mark. To chuck him and two valuable first round picks (which the Kings could use to improve the offensive talent in the system) for a player who might make a marginal difference, and is heading toward the twilight of his career, is a franchise-sinking move.

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01-07-2012, 09:40 PM
  #303
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And that is why Dean must go. 6 years and nothing but "potential". It's time for a new leadership group that isn't in love with the 90's.

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01-07-2012, 09:40 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by ScoreZeGoals View Post
I think he will as well, and he will end-up making deal"s" that will harm the long term future of the team. This team is more then Iginla form competing for the cup.
Especially now that he's on the hot seat. He's going to care less about trading away future 1st to win now.

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01-07-2012, 09:44 PM
  #305
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And that is why Dean must go. 6 years and nothing but "potential". It's time for a new leadership group that isn't in love with the 90's.
To be quite honest, how many players on the current roster were groomed under Lombardi's development program who came out of Manchester?

Both Quick and Bernier, Martinez, Voynov, Lewis, Loktionov. That's it. No top six forwards. So in six years, you have six players to show for on the roster that came up through Manchester, the biggest prize being Quick.

If only they placed more of an emphasis on skill over "character."

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01-07-2012, 09:46 PM
  #306
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You all have embraced the Darkside, Long live Herby/PSP.

LoL I kid I kid, But yes Dean needs to go sooner rather than later.

Now that I say that, The Kings are going to go on a scoring tear watch

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01-07-2012, 09:47 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
No, I'm not. This team is not even close to being a Cup contender. They are in no position to start trading first round picks for players who may or may not have a few years left in the tank, and most certainly won't guarantee a Cup. This team's problems go far deeper than what one player can provide. Iginla won't magically make Kopitar stop shooting into goalies' chests or Williams stop blowing all of the scoring chances he gets or make the Kings stop playing a stationary perimeter game. He won't make the entire team all of a sudden learn how to make quick, crisp passes. He won't make them learn how to support each other on attack.

The Kings have zero offensive potential in the system minus Toffoli, and even he's a question mark. To chuck him and two valuable first round picks (which the Kings could use to improve the offensive talent in the system) for a player who might make a marginal difference, and is heading toward the twilight of his career, is a franchise-sinking move.
I'm pretty sure Iginla will make a bigger impact than marginal difference. And as for your "twilight of his career" statement, I wonder for how many years has Selanne heard that.

We gave up a 1st, a 3rd and Teubert for Penner. We're basically giving up the same for Iginla as we did for Penner.

To me, this deal's a slam dunk for the kings.

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01-07-2012, 09:48 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
You all have embraced the Darkside, Long live Herby/PSP.

LoL I kid I kid, But yes Dean needs to go sooner rather than later.

Now that I say that, The Kings are going to go on a scoring tear watch
Obviously you're being a bit facetious, but personally, I wouldn't bet much money on it. This team is way past "small sample size" and "unlucky." They are what they are, and that's a 2 goal-per-game team.

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01-07-2012, 09:54 PM
  #309
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Johnson, Bernier, Loktionov and Stoll or Penner for Nash and something else.

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01-07-2012, 09:55 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
I'm pretty sure Iginla will make a bigger impact than marginal difference. And as for your "twilight of his career" statement, I wonder for how many years has Selanne heard that.

We gave up a 1st, a 3rd and Teubert for Penner. We're basically giving up the same for Iginla as we did for Penner.

To me, this deal's a slam dunk for the kings.
So how exactly is Iginla going to fix all of the problems I listed above? Iginla hasn't been able to carry a sub-par Calgary team to the Cup the last several seasons (or ever); what makes you think he'll do any differently with an underachieving Kings' team that has major depth issues?

And you can pull out one example of a player who plays well late into their 30s, but the fact is that a large majority of players decline drastically at that age. Selanne is the exception, not the rule. That's not even taking into consideration that Selanne plays an entirely different style than Iginla. Iginla plays a style that wears one's body out quicker over time, and he's not 25, he's (almost) 35. You don't blow your load on an aging star is closer to the end of his career than he is to his prime. That is not proper asset management.

What happens when Iginla retires without helping lead the Kings to a Cup in the next couple seasons and the Kings have absolutely nothing to replace him with in their system? As much as I hate to quote a Dean Lombardi saying right now, but that's "black hole" if I've ever seen it.

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01-07-2012, 10:05 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
So how exactly is Iginla going to fix all of the problems I listed above? Iginla hasn't been able to carry a sub-par Calgary team to the Cup the last several seasons (or ever); what makes you think he'll do any differently with an underachieving Kings' team that has major depth issues?

And you can pull out one example of a player who plays well late into their 30s, but the fact is that a large majority of players decline drastically at that age. Selanne is the exception, not the rule. That's not even taking into consideration that Selanne plays an entirely different style than Iginla. Iginla plays a style that wears one's body out quicker over time, and he's not 25, he's (almost) 35. You don't blow your load on an aging star is closer to the end of his career than he is to his prime. That is not proper asset management.

What happens when Iginla retires without helping lead the Kings to a Cup in the next couple seasons and the Kings have absolutely nothing to replace him with in their system? As much as I hate to quote a Dean Lombardi saying right now, but that's "black hole" if I've ever seen it.
If you can't see the difference between our team and the flames, I don't know what to tell ya.

Arnott 37, Jagr almost 40.

In any trade there's risk & reward.

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01-07-2012, 10:07 PM
  #312
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If you can't see the difference between our team and the flames, I don't know what to tell ya.

Arnott 37, Jagr almost 40.

In any trade there's risk & reward.
I think Iggy would make a difference, it just wouldn't be enough. One LW/RW does not slot everyone were they should be.

Realistically they Kings need Two, or move Brown to LW. But you still need another Top six forward. Also a bottom six guy.(thanks Bud Holloway and Dean)

Iggy is just not enough.

Parse and Gagne going down, plus Penner have really screwed the Kings this season.

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01-07-2012, 10:09 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
If you can't see the difference between our team and the flames, I don't know what to tell ya.

Arnott 37, Jagr almost 40.

In any trade there's risk & reward.
And you don't mortgage the future for a player on the tail end of his career. He still is a good player, I'm not denying that. But he is not the answer. The Kings have many, many more holes than a scoring right wing.

How is this team anywhere close to being a Cup contender?

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01-07-2012, 10:11 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
To be quite honest, how many players on the current roster were groomed under Lombardi's development program who came out of Manchester?

Both Quick and Bernier, Martinez, Voynov, Lewis, Loktionov. That's it. No top six forwards. So in six years, you have six players to show for on the roster that came up through Manchester, the biggest prize being Quick.

If only they placed more of an emphasis on skill over "character."
Outside of Buffalo (and look where they are) how many teams have more than 6 guys that were legitimately groomed in their teams minor league affiliate?

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01-07-2012, 10:15 PM
  #315
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Guys, I'm not saying Iggy's the answer but he'd fill a big void imo. We can realistically add Bourque and Moen and we'd have a whole new identity to this team.

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01-07-2012, 10:17 PM
  #316
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Guys, I'm not saying Iggy's the answer but he'd fill a big void imo. We can realistically add Bourque and Moen and we'd have a whole new identity to this team.
We'll just have to agree to disagree then because I don't think we'll ever be on the same level on this one.

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01-07-2012, 10:22 PM
  #317
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We'll just have to agree to disagree then because I don't think we'll ever be on the same level on this one.
We'll have this discussion again after the trade deadline.

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01-07-2012, 10:31 PM
  #318
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Outside of Buffalo (and look where they are) how many teams have more than 6 guys that were legitimately groomed in their teams minor league affiliate?
Boston had Bergeron, Marchand, Krejci, Rask, Boychuk, McQuaid come up through Providence, as well as Caron, Hamill and Kampfer who have all appeared in games with the Bruins. If you include them, that's nine players having gone through their minor league club.

Detroit with Hudler, Filppula, Kronwall, Howard, Helm, Abdelkader, Kindl, Emmerton, and Ericsson. That's nine players.

Philadelphia with Giroux, Read, van Riemsdyk, Rinaldo, Bobrovsky, Bourdon, Zolnierczyk.

Pittsburgh with Orpik, Kennedy, Letang, Engelland, Vitale, Despres, Lovejoy.

The Rangers have done remarkably well with Callahan, Del Zotto, Anisimov, Dubinsky, McDonagh, Girardi, Hagelin, Bickel, Sauer having all gone through their player development program that are currently on the pro roster.

That's just focusing on some of the top teams, not having looked at other clubs such as St. Louis, Dallas, Chicago, San Jose, etc.

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01-07-2012, 10:34 PM
  #319
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Boston had Bergeron, Marchand, Krejci, Rask, Boychuk, McQuaid come up through Providence, as well as Caron, Hamill and Kampfer who have all appeared in games with the Bruins. If you include them, that's nine players having gone through their minor league club.

Detroit with Hudler, Filppula, Kronwall, Howard, Helm, Abdelkader, Kindl, Emmerton, and Ericsson. That's nine players.

Philadelphia with Giroux, Read, van Riemsdyk, Rinaldo, Bobrovsky, Bourdon, Zolnierczyk.

Pittsburgh with Orpik, Kennedy, Letang, Engelland, Vitale, Despres, Lovejoy.

The Rangers have done remarkably well with Callahan, Del Zotto, Anisimov, Dubinsky, McDonagh, Girardi, Hagelin, Bickel, Sauer having all gone through their player development program that are currently on the pro roster.

That's just focusing on some of the top teams, not having looked at other clubs such as St. Louis, Dallas, Chicago, San Jose, etc.
Wow That's quite the group for the Rangers.

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01-07-2012, 10:41 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
To be quite honest, how many players on the current roster were groomed under Lombardi's development program who came out of Manchester?

Both Quick and Bernier, Martinez, Voynov, Lewis, Loktionov. That's it. No top six forwards. So in six years, you have six players to show for on the roster that came up through Manchester, the biggest prize being Quick.

If only they placed more of an emphasis on skill over "character."
He's had success picking guy like Simmonds and Clifford, that came straight in, but not too many guys on the slow cook.

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01-07-2012, 10:45 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Boston had Bergeron, Marchand, Krejci, Rask, Boychuk, McQuaid come up through Providence, as well as Caron, Hamill and Kampfer who have all appeared in games with the Bruins. If you include them, that's nine players having gone through their minor league club.

Detroit with Hudler, Filppula, Kronwall, Howard, Helm, Abdelkader, Kindl, Emmerton, and Ericsson. That's nine players.

Philadelphia with Giroux, Read, van Riemsdyk, Rinaldo, Bobrovsky, Bourdon, Zolnierczyk.

Pittsburgh with Orpik, Kennedy, Letang, Engelland, Vitale, Despres, Lovejoy.

The Rangers have done remarkably well with Callahan, Del Zotto, Anisimov, Dubinsky, McDonagh, Girardi, Hagelin, Bickel, Sauer having all gone through their player development program that are currently on the pro roster.

That's just focusing on some of the top teams, not having looked at other clubs such as St. Louis, Dallas, Chicago, San Jose, etc.
I'm not 100% sure, but didn't Bergereon make the Bruins at 18? Del Zotto make the Rangers at 19? And Despres was in the Q last year? And JVR/Read came right outta college?

Also if your gonna count Rinadlo/Lovejoy/Engelland why would you not count Westgarth for the Kings?

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01-07-2012, 10:52 PM
  #322
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Overlooked Westgarth, which is rather easy to do. There are guys who made pro, then spent some time in the AHL and came back up to earn permanent spots. It happened with Brown and Bernier on the Kings.

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01-07-2012, 11:05 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Johnson, Bernier, Loktionov and Stoll or Penner for Nash and something else.
Because of his NMC, Nash would actually have to want to come here. (Same goes for a lot of other big names)

How many players would actually want to come play for one the worst offensive teams in NHL history? Not many.

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01-07-2012, 11:12 PM
  #324
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Because of his NMC, Nash would actually have to want to come here. (Same goes for a lot of other big names)

How many players would actually want to come play for one the worst offensive teams in NHL history? Not many.
Nash has already stated he would waive his ntc or nmc.

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01-07-2012, 11:15 PM
  #325
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Nash has already stated he would waive his ntc or nmc.
I know, but if he does waive it, it's going to be for a significantly greener pasture. He's been playing for a loser virtually his entire career. He wants a shot at a cup.

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