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2011-12 All Purpose Kings Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread II

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Old
01-07-2012, 11:20 PM
  #326
The Black1963
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
I know, but if he does waive it, it's going to be for a significantly greener pasture. He's been playing for a loser virtually his entire career. He wants a shot at a cup.
No, actually he basically said if Columbus wanted to trade him for better players, he would support that, more or less. At least he didn't mention anything about which teams he would or wouldn't go to. But even then, I think you're underestimating the kings as a team and organization. I think a lot of players would still come here to play.

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01-07-2012, 11:31 PM
  #327
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No, actually he basically said if Columbus wanted to trade him for better players, he would support that, more or less. At least he didn't mention anything about which teams he would or wouldn't go to. But even then, I think you're underestimating the kings as a team and organization. I think a lot of players would still come here to play.
If he didn't care about where he was traded, then he wouldn't have a NMC to begin with.

And I didn't say he wouldn't come to Kings. I was implying that we can't take it for granted that he would, and the same goes for a lot of other possible big name trade targets who have NMCs/NTCs.

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Old
01-07-2012, 11:42 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by KingLB View Post
Outside of Buffalo (and look where they are) how many teams have more than 6 guys that were legitimately groomed in their teams minor league affiliate?

Sad thing is about Buffalo...they were way better last year without bringing in outside talent.

of the guys who have sucked hard this year for Buffalo, Regher, Ehrhoff, and Lieno are among the leaders.

There are definitely two routes you can take when building a team, but you have the right mix of talent.

Let's keep using Buffalo for example, and also Detroit. Both successful teams since the lockout...look at the diverse players they have drafted.

Skill:

Detroit - Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kindl, Filppula, Hudler (he takes a beating but he is a skilled player)

Buffalo - Roy, Ennis, Pominville, Vanek, Myers, Adam

Character/Grit:

Detroit - Helm, Abdelkader, Kronwall, Ericsson

Buffalo - Stafford, Gerbe, Gaustad, McNabb, Kassian, Kaleta


It's a REAL good balance. Buffalo has built completely through the draft and have had some very good seasons with basically all home grown players. I would say this is the first season they have tried to add to the team from outside sources and it has backfired miserably.

Detroit doesn't draft many grit/character players but they take the time to fill out their roster via free agency with those types of players, EX: Bertuzzi, Drew Miller, Stuart, Cleary

So King LB I believe your quote is incorrect. There are tons of teams that groom skill guys in the minors. Chicago is another example, as is the Rangers, Edmonton, Vancouver, and San Jose. Most of their rosters are home grown talent.

The Kings however, have really built bass ackwards then say Detroit. Detroit, again, drafts skill and builds character and grit via free agency. The Kings have taken the exact opposite approach.

Kings

Skill - Kopitar, Doughty, Loktionov, Voynov, (Toffoli, Vey, Deslauriers, Kitsyn, Kozun, do not count..they have yet to see if it translates)

Grit/Character - Brown, Clifford, Simmonds, Dwight King, Lewis, Acevedo, Nolan, Westgarth, Campbell, Meckler, Cliche, Clune...

You see what I mean. Now the Kings have the ultimate task of finding skill guys in the FA market or via trade instead of a team like Detroit or Chicago who only needs to add sandpaper and character via free agency. Cheap easy contracts, who won't be overpaid for.

Look at the names Chicago signs in the offseason. Jamal Mayers, Dan Carcillo, Sean O'Donnell

The Kings are forced by virtue of poor balanced drafting (at the fault of both Dean Lombardi AND Dave Taylor who too has left the pipeline sparingly thing on skilled players...) to find players of skill through trade and free agency.

As you have seen that does not work out.

Penner, Gagne, Williams, Hunter, Stoll, Modin, Halpern......Then you get guys like Richardson, Fraser (more grit and character...)

As much as the Kings want to say their pipeline is rich, and in many aspects it very much is, at the same time we are asking a lot of the aforementioned skill guys who have yet to step forward to do so and soon because there are so few of them.

Look how pissed people are about Hickey and Lewis. You expect skilled players with a top 30 pick right? Not character players. Not project players. Wether or not they turn into primetime NHL stars at some point is seriously at question.

I think Lombardi has done well at drafting LATE ROUND skill..IN THE LAST THREE YEARS. But nothing else beside that. This pipeline was rich with players yes, but it's rich with grinders and character guys. And right now this won't cut it.


It's really sad to say, and I shouldn't be having to say this...but we'll probably be a force in a couple years if those guys pan out. If. And that is scary as **** to me. Rebuild #2 starts soon if we flounder and don't turn it around honestly. The Kings system has built a wealth of good solid players. But it's too much of the same type of player on a team that already has too many of that type of player.


Last edited by Jason Lewis: 01-07-2012 at 11:49 PM.
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Old
01-08-2012, 12:21 AM
  #329
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
Sad thing is about Buffalo...they were way better last year without bringing in outside talent.

of the guys who have sucked hard this year for Buffalo, Regher, Ehrhoff, and Lieno are among the leaders.

There are definitely two routes you can take when building a team, but you have the right mix of talent.

Let's keep using Buffalo for example, and also Detroit. Both successful teams since the lockout...look at the diverse players they have drafted.

Skill:

Detroit - Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kindl, Filppula, Hudler (he takes a beating but he is a skilled player)

Buffalo - Roy, Ennis, Pominville, Vanek, Myers, Adam

Character/Grit:

Detroit - Helm, Abdelkader, Kronwall, Ericsson

Buffalo - Stafford, Gerbe, Gaustad, McNabb, Kassian, Kaleta


It's a REAL good balance. Buffalo has built completely through the draft and have had some very good seasons with basically all home grown players. I would say this is the first season they have tried to add to the team from outside sources and it has backfired miserably.

Detroit doesn't draft many grit/character players but they take the time to fill out their roster via free agency with those types of players, EX: Bertuzzi, Drew Miller, Stuart, Cleary

So King LB I believe your quote is incorrect. There are tons of teams that groom skill guys in the minors. Chicago is another example, as is the Rangers, Edmonton, Vancouver, and San Jose. Most of their rosters are home grown talent.

The Kings however, have really built bass ackwards then say Detroit. Detroit, again, drafts skill and builds character and grit via free agency. The Kings have taken the exact opposite approach.

Kings

Skill - Kopitar, Doughty, Loktionov, Voynov, (Toffoli, Vey, Deslauriers, Kitsyn, Kozun, do not count..they have yet to see if it translates)

Grit/Character - Brown, Clifford, Simmonds, Dwight King, Lewis, Acevedo, Nolan, Westgarth, Campbell, Meckler, Cliche, Clune...

You see what I mean. Now the Kings have the ultimate task of finding skill guys in the FA market or via trade instead of a team like Detroit or Chicago who only needs to add sandpaper and character via free agency. Cheap easy contracts, who won't be overpaid for.

Look at the names Chicago signs in the offseason. Jamal Mayers, Dan Carcillo, Sean O'Donnell

The Kings are forced by virtue of poor balanced drafting (at the fault of both Dean Lombardi AND Dave Taylor who too has left the pipeline sparingly thing on skilled players...) to find players of skill through trade and free agency.

As you have seen that does not work out.

Penner, Gagne, Williams, Hunter, Stoll, Modin, Halpern......Then you get guys like Richardson, Fraser (more grit and character...)

As much as the Kings want to say their pipeline is rich, and in many aspects it very much is, at the same time we are asking a lot of the aforementioned skill guys who have yet to step forward to do so and soon because there are so few of them.

Look how pissed people are about Hickey and Lewis. You expect skilled players with a top 30 pick right? Not character players. Not project players. Wether or not they turn into primetime NHL stars at some point is seriously at question.

I think Lombardi has done well at drafting LATE ROUND skill..IN THE LAST THREE YEARS. But nothing else beside that. This pipeline was rich with players yes, but it's rich with grinders and character guys. And right now this won't cut it.


It's really sad to say, and I shouldn't be having to say this...but we'll probably be a force in a couple years if those guys pan out. If. And that is scary as **** to me. Rebuild #2 starts soon if we flounder and don't turn it around honestly. The Kings system has built a wealth of good solid players. But it's too much of the same type of player on a team that already has too many of that type of player.
Very well thought out. Good work

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Old
01-08-2012, 06:33 AM
  #330
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I'm starting to become of the opinion that we don't only need a scoring winger, but we are also desperately missing someone that can play in front of the net. Our offense is a lot of shooting from the point and last year it worked because we had Smyth and Handzus who could play well around the net. This was especially highlighted by Jim Fox yesterday showing how, while Brown was standing there, Sanford was never really screened. Anyone can stand there, not everyone can actually effectively screen, tip, and slam home rebounds while being mobbed around the crease.

These are all things Vanek (as a few people have discussed earlier in this thread) does especially well, although that is trade proposal I don't know if I'm willing to attempt and get flamed for.

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Old
01-08-2012, 08:48 AM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
Sad thing is about Buffalo...they were way better last year without bringing in outside talent.

of the guys who have sucked hard this year for Buffalo, Regher, Ehrhoff, and Lieno are among the leaders.

There are definitely two routes you can take when building a team, but you have the right mix of talent.

Let's keep using Buffalo for example, and also Detroit. Both successful teams since the lockout...look at the diverse players they have drafted.

Skill:

Detroit - Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kindl, Filppula, Hudler (he takes a beating but he is a skilled player)

Buffalo - Roy, Ennis, Pominville, Vanek, Myers, Adam

Character/Grit:

Detroit - Helm, Abdelkader, Kronwall, Ericsson

Buffalo - Stafford, Gerbe, Gaustad, McNabb, Kassian, Kaleta


It's a REAL good balance. Buffalo has built completely through the draft and have had some very good seasons with basically all home grown players. I would say this is the first season they have tried to add to the team from outside sources and it has backfired miserably.

Detroit doesn't draft many grit/character players but they take the time to fill out their roster via free agency with those types of players, EX: Bertuzzi, Drew Miller, Stuart, Cleary

So King LB I believe your quote is incorrect. There are tons of teams that groom skill guys in the minors. Chicago is another example, as is the Rangers, Edmonton, Vancouver, and San Jose. Most of their rosters are home grown talent.

The Kings however, have really built bass ackwards then say Detroit. Detroit, again, drafts skill and builds character and grit via free agency. The Kings have taken the exact opposite approach.

Kings

Skill - Kopitar, Doughty, Loktionov, Voynov, (Toffoli, Vey, Deslauriers, Kitsyn, Kozun, do not count..they have yet to see if it translates)

Grit/Character - Brown, Clifford, Simmonds, Dwight King, Lewis, Acevedo, Nolan, Westgarth, Campbell, Meckler, Cliche, Clune...

You see what I mean. Now the Kings have the ultimate task of finding skill guys in the FA market or via trade instead of a team like Detroit or Chicago who only needs to add sandpaper and character via free agency. Cheap easy contracts, who won't be overpaid for.

Look at the names Chicago signs in the offseason. Jamal Mayers, Dan Carcillo, Sean O'Donnell

The Kings are forced by virtue of poor balanced drafting (at the fault of both Dean Lombardi AND Dave Taylor who too has left the pipeline sparingly thing on skilled players...) to find players of skill through trade and free agency.

As you have seen that does not work out.

Penner, Gagne, Williams, Hunter, Stoll, Modin, Halpern......Then you get guys like Richardson, Fraser (more grit and character...)

As much as the Kings want to say their pipeline is rich, and in many aspects it very much is, at the same time we are asking a lot of the aforementioned skill guys who have yet to step forward to do so and soon because there are so few of them.

Look how pissed people are about Hickey and Lewis. You expect skilled players with a top 30 pick right? Not character players. Not project players. Wether or not they turn into primetime NHL stars at some point is seriously at question.

I think Lombardi has done well at drafting LATE ROUND skill..IN THE LAST THREE YEARS. But nothing else beside that. This pipeline was rich with players yes, but it's rich with grinders and character guys. And right now this won't cut it.


It's really sad to say, and I shouldn't be having to say this...but we'll probably be a force in a couple years if those guys pan out. If. And that is scary as **** to me. Rebuild #2 starts soon if we flounder and don't turn it around honestly. The Kings system has built a wealth of good solid players. But it's too much of the same type of player on a team that already has too many of that type of player.
Good post!

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Old
01-08-2012, 09:23 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by ScoreZeGoals View Post
I think he will as well, and he will end-up making deal"s" that will harm the long term future of the team. This team is more then Iginla from competing for the cup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
Especially now that he's on the hot seat. He's going to care less about trading away future 1st to win now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
You all have embraced the Darkside, Long live Herby/PSP.
Being a visionary is a blessing - and a curse

If the Lombardi era ends soon, I have 2 hopes:

1. That he doesn't make those expensive panic moves sacrificing what little talent he has accumulated in a futile attempt to save his job, and

2. That the new management group is given a MUCH shorter timeline to produce tangible results WITHOUT AEG interference

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Old
01-08-2012, 09:41 AM
  #333
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Seems like Buffalo is shopping Derek Roy, depending on what they wanted back, he could be useful.

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01-08-2012, 11:48 AM
  #334
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What about Kulemin? Yes, he has had a bad year but he is a character player who can score and wouldn't cost an arm and a leg for.

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01-08-2012, 12:02 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by Richie to Brownie View Post
What about Kulemin? Yes, he has had a bad year but he is a character player who can score and wouldn't cost an arm and a leg for.
Having watched Kulemin, yea, I would take a chance on him,

Stoll and a 3rd, for Kulemin, absolutely.

Toronto fans might not agree, but they need centermen, they are relying on oft-injured Connolly, Bozak, and Grabovski as their centers, that's a painful trio.

Then you run a lineup of,

Penner - Kopitar - Williams
Kulemin - Richards - Brown
Richardson - Lotkionov - Lewis
Clifford - Fraser - Hunter/Westgarth


Last edited by sjmay*: 01-08-2012 at 12:03 PM. Reason: added a lineup
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01-08-2012, 12:58 PM
  #336
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Seems like Buffalo is shopping Derek Roy, depending on what they wanted back, he could be useful.
I like Roysies game. But he is first and foremost, a passer. And I think people would get frustrated with him here. Especially if he was on a line with Kopitar and Brown or something. Roy only averages about 25 goals a season.

Who knows though, on our team maybe he would free up a bit and start shooting a little more. But as it is right now he is normally a dish man for the committee scoring in Buffalo.


Stafford and Roy would be really nice to have though.

Maybe Stoll/Williams/Martinez or something of the like.

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01-08-2012, 01:02 PM
  #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie to Brownie View Post
What about Kulemin? Yes, he has had a bad year but he is a character player who can score and wouldn't cost an arm and a leg for.
I would be interested, but I don't think Toronto lets him go cheaply at all.

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01-08-2012, 01:05 PM
  #338
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I would be interested, but I don't think Toronto lets him go cheaply at all.
Yea Kulemin is way too young and coming off a 30g season. They would ask for something like Jack Johnson knowing Burke.


or maybe Brayden Sch.....oh waaaaiiiit...



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Old
01-08-2012, 01:22 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Having watched Kulemin, yea, I would take a chance on him,

Stoll and a 3rd, for Kulemin, absolutely.

Toronto fans might not agree, but they need centermen, they are relying on oft-injured Connolly, Bozak, and Grabovski as their centers, that's a painful trio.

Then you run a lineup of,

Penner - Kopitar - Williams
Kulemin - Richards - Brown
Richardson - Lotkionov - Lewis
Clifford - Fraser - Hunter/Westgarth
Why would TOR want Stoll and his expiring contract for Kulemin?

We definitely need to offer them something better than that.

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01-08-2012, 01:28 PM
  #340
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Why would TOR want Stoll and his expiring contract for Kulemin?

We definitely need to offer them something better than that.
Again,

Toronto is not deep at Center as they like to believe, in my opinion of course.

They have, Bozak, Connolly, Grabovski, and Steckel, as their centers.

The only one I would play reguarly above Stoll is Grabovski.

Connolly is made of glass, he will probably go down about 2 more times for the year,

Bozak is playing well above is head, and no one really knows if he can repeat it.

They need to stabilize the middle, and Stoll can do that for him, he's shown that he can put up points.

Kulemin is still a question mark, he put up 30 last year, playing on the same line, is doing nothing this year, he is what would you call a high risk high reward.

I don't give anything of significant value for him, ie, Voynov, Lotkionov, Martinez, until he proves he can do it over and over again.

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01-08-2012, 01:28 PM
  #341
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Why would TOR want Stoll and his expiring contract for Kulemin?

We definitely need to offer them something better than that.
They will want Jack Johnson. They need puck movers in Toronto something fierce.

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01-08-2012, 01:33 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Again,

Toronto is not deep at Center as they like to believe, in my opinion of course.

They have, Bozak, Connolly, Grabovski, and Steckel, as their centers.

The only one I would play reguarly above Stoll is Grabovski.

Connolly is made of glass, he will probably go down about 2 more times for the year,

Bozak is playing well above is head, and no one really knows if he can repeat it.

They need to stabilize the middle, and Stoll can do that for him, he's shown that he can put up points.

Kulemin is still a question mark, he put up 30 last year, playing on the same line, is doing nothing this year, he is what would you call a high risk high reward.

I don't give anything of significant value for him, ie, Voynov, Lotkionov, Martinez, until he proves he can do it over and over again.
They aren't going to give away Kulemin for a rental in Stoll. It would take minimally a Lokti and even then we probably would need to add.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
They will want Jack Johnson. They need puck movers in Toronto something fierce.
Knowing Tor fans, probably.

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01-08-2012, 01:33 PM
  #343
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They will want Jack Johnson. They need puck movers in Toronto something fierce.
Then they probably wouldn't want Johnson.

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01-08-2012, 01:38 PM
  #344
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They aren't going to give away Kulemin for a rental in Stoll. It would take minimally a Lokti and even then we probably would need to add.




Knowing Tor fans, probably.
Not worth it then, not given the question mark there...hell give them a conditional 2nd, if Stoll resigns, it drops to a 3rd or a name from a pool of prospects,

You don't part with good pieces for a question mark though...

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01-08-2012, 01:48 PM
  #345
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I wonder if a trade like this could spark then Kings.

To: Buffalo
Stoll, Penner, Martinez, and a pick maybe a 3rd

To: Los Angeles
Boyes, and Roy

Richards- Kopitar- Brown
Boyes- Roy- Williams
Richardson- Lokti- Lewis
Clifford- Fraser-Hunter/Westgarth

Then at the deadline and that vetern gritty player we need like a Pahlsson/Moen player.

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01-08-2012, 02:26 PM
  #346
Jason Lewis
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Originally Posted by CandianKingsFan14 View Post
I wonder if a trade like this could spark then Kings.

To: Buffalo
Stoll, Penner, Martinez, and a pick maybe a 3rd

To: Los Angeles
Boyes, and Roy

Richards- Kopitar- Brown
Boyes- Roy- Williams
Richardson- Lokti- Lewis
Clifford- Fraser-Hunter/Westgarth

Then at the deadline and that vetern gritty player we need like a Pahlsson/Moen player.
I'd like to switch the top6 to

Boyes - Kopitar - Williams
Brown - Richards - Roy

and then you might be onto something.

Keep Kopitar and Brown away from each other for the love of god.

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Old
01-08-2012, 02:52 PM
  #347
The Black1963
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We can afford this:

Bourque-Kopi-Iginla
Brown-Richards-Williams
Moen-Richie-Downie
Clifford-Fraser-Anthony Stewart

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01-08-2012, 02:56 PM
  #348
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In my perfect world Kings trade Stoll+pick for Ruutu and Johnson+Bernier+? for Parise+Hedberg. Or Penner+Bernier+young puckmover(Hickey/Deslauries/Martinez)+pick for Parise+Hedberg

With Jack package

Parise-Kopitar-Williams
Brown-Richards-Ruutu
Richardson-Loktionov-Penner
Clifford-Fraser-Lewis

Doughty-Scuderi
Mitchell-Voynov
Greene-Martinez/Drewiske

Quick
Hedberg

And Gagne takes Richardsons spot when hes back, Richie rotates with 4th line


With Penner/Bernier/young D

Parise-Kopitar-Williams
Brown-Richards-Ruutu
Richardson-Loktionov-Lewis
Clifford-Fraser-Hunter

Doughty-Scuderi
Mitchell-Voynov/Martinez
Greene-Johnson

Quick
Hedberg

Gagne takes Lewis' spot when back, and Lewis takes Hunter's spot


One can dream

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Old
01-08-2012, 03:28 PM
  #349
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Eklund:
Quote:
*The Kings and Lightning could pull off a monster of a trade if they could just get one of the key components to waive.
HAHAHAHAHA! Who would we want from them? Malone won't waive!

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Old
01-08-2012, 03:32 PM
  #350
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Eklund:


HAHAHAHAHA! Who would we want from them? Malone won't waive!
Probably St Louis. Wished it was Stamkos.

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