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Bobby Ryan from Anaheim (Jim Matheson, Edmonton Journal)

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Old
01-08-2012, 03:33 AM
  #51
Ryadem
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Ryan is a fine talent and a very good player, but scoring isn't this team's problem. The defense is what needs to be addressed. Timonen has stepped up into Pronger's leadership role very nicely, but to me there is still a hole in the defense that needs to be filled.

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01-08-2012, 05:59 AM
  #52
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Bobby Ryan may just be the most overrated player in the NHL. Guy plays on the best line in hockey and still can't manage PPG pace. While the 30+ goals are nice, it's not like we need anymore goals on the team.

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01-08-2012, 11:20 AM
  #53
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Better idea. Just wait until he becomes a free agent and sign him. He's a free agent the year Briere comes off the books..... In reality, the only trade the Flyers should and probably will be making is for a defenseman.

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01-08-2012, 11:22 AM
  #54
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Better idea. Just wait until he becomes a free agent and sign him. He's a free agent the year Briere comes off the books..... In reality, the only trade the Flyers should and probably will be making is for a defenseman.
The single best plan I've heard yet.

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01-08-2012, 12:21 PM
  #55
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I would do it if we had another plan to get back a defender or two. For instance...

If they trade Schenn and Coburn for Ryan (I think Schenn is more logical because of log jam at center on this team), then make some trades for some solid defenders (Gleason and Grossman) I would be ok with it.

Ryan-G-Jagr
Hartnell-Briere-Voracek
Simmonds-Couts-Read
Rinaldo-Talbot-Harry Z

Timonen-Mez
Carle-Gleason
Grossman-Bourdon/Gus

The defense isn't exactly the best in the league, but its solid. I would be very happy if the team looked like this. That being said, I don't see any of this happening.

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01-08-2012, 12:29 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I would do it if we had another plan to get back a defender or two. For instance...

If they trade Schenn and Coburn for Ryan (I think Schenn is more logical because of log jam at center on this team), then make some trades for some solid defenders (Gleason and Grossman) I would be ok with it.

Ryan-G-Jagr
Hartnell-Briere-Voracek
Simmonds-Couts-Read
Rinaldo-Talbot-Harry Z

Timonen-Mez
Carle-Gleason
Grossman-Bourdon/Gus

The defense isn't exactly the best in the league, but its solid. I would be very happy if the team looked like this. That being said, I don't see any of this happening.
Problems:

1. Where is JVR if you traded Schenn? Did you trade him for Gleason and Grossman?
2. We should not be trading Schenn because its about time we moved Briere to RW.
3. Ryan is not worth a top-3 defenseman more than Schenn.
4. That defense is atrocious.

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01-08-2012, 01:15 PM
  #57
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jvr + carle for ryan+sbisa ? i love ryans game and would realy dig having him here but thats about the only deal i could see working

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01-08-2012, 01:17 PM
  #58
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JvR cooter ryan

Legion of America


Last edited by tuckrr: 01-08-2012 at 01:31 PM.
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01-08-2012, 01:33 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I would do it if we had another plan to get back a defender or two. For instance...

If they trade Schenn and Coburn for Ryan (I think Schenn is more logical because of log jam at center on this team), then make some trades for some solid defenders (Gleason and Grossman) I would be ok with it.

Ryan-G-Jagr
Hartnell-Briere-Voracek
Simmonds-Couts-Read
Rinaldo-Talbot-Harry Z

Timonen-Mez
Carle-Gleason
Grossman-Bourdon/Gus

The defense isn't exactly the best in the league, but its solid. I would be very happy if the team looked like this. That being said, I don't see any of this happening.
Log jam at center? We only have 5 real centers and no prospects at the position. One is 34 and one is career 4th liner .

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01-08-2012, 01:45 PM
  #60
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I like Ryan as a player, but it just doesn't make sense for us.

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01-08-2012, 01:58 PM
  #61
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Log jam at center? We only have 5 real centers and no prospects at the position. One is 34 and one is career 4th liner .
Cousins schenn couturier..

Talbot is on pace for 20g

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Old
01-08-2012, 02:07 PM
  #62
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I don't think the Flyers are in a position to trade Schenn or Couturier. They are cheap and under control of the team for years to come. They also play a position we are not deep at, and are clearly amongst the two most talented young centers in the league. Each one compliments the other and not one of them is redundant.

The flyers have already made it apparent that Couturier is not available , id like for Schenn to step up and show the front office that he shouldn't be available as well.

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01-08-2012, 02:11 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
I don't think the Flyers are in a position to trade Schenn or Couturier. They are cheap and under control of the team for years to come. They also play a position we are not deep at, and are clearly amongst the two most talented young centers in the league. Each one compliments the other and not one of them is redundant.

The flyers have already made it apparent that Couturier is not available , id like for Schenn to step up and show the front office that he shouldn't be available as well.
I agree 100%


















But.




















BOBBY ****inG RYAN!!!!!


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01-08-2012, 02:13 PM
  #64
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Cousins schenn couturier..

Talbot is on pace for 20g
cousins? So we trade away who was the best prospect in the world not already playing in the NHL coming into this season in hopes that a 3rd rounder becomes a top center for us 4 years from now?

Maxime Talbot is shooting 18%. He shot 6% last year and 4% the year before. Even in his best seasons he has always been a 4th liner and that isn't about to change in Philly unless our team has gotten that bad to the point where a 4th liner on other teams is our 3rd or even second liner on our team.

The guy is just starting to find his game. 3 points in his last 3 games on the 3rd line. Give him time.

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01-08-2012, 02:32 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
1. Where is JVR if you traded Schenn? Did you trade him for Gleason and Grossman?
Ha, I left him off by accident. I figure picks and prospects could get Gleason and Grossman.

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2. We should not be trading Schenn because its about time we moved Briere to RW.
I'd be fine with that down the line, but I think if we are in win now, Schenn+ for Ryan is ok with me.

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3. Ryan is not worth a top-3 defenseman more than Schenn.
I'd say its about fair value. What do you think is fair value for Ryan? Keep in mind I said I would only do this if we are getting more defensive help back in return (either form Anaheim or elsewhere). I only mentioned Grossman and Gleason because those names have been thrown out there in rumor mill. I would not do this trade if it was just Ryan for Schenn and Coburn and we were done wheeling and dealing.

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4. That defense is atrocious.
I don't think its atrocious. I'd put that defense right in the middle of the pack of NHL defenses.

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01-08-2012, 02:39 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I'd say its about fair value. What do you think is fair value for Ryan?
JVR/Voracek/Couturier/Schenn + 2nd/3rd/Cousins (which I would be against)

or Simmonds + 1st (which I might be okay with if we didn't need to draft defense)

or Read + high 1st (which we don't have)

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Keep in mind I said I would only do this if we are getting more defensive help back in return (either form Anaheim or elsewhere).
Gleason and Grossman don't solve our long-term problems. We have a long-term problem at defense to begin with and then you trade away one of the two or three only long-term solutions we do actually have in our possession at the moment by moving Coburn.

It's a terrible idea.

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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I only mentioned Grossman and Gleason because those names have been thrown out there in rumor mill. I would not do this trade if it was just Ryan for Schenn and Coburn and we were done wheeling and dealing.
I would not do Ryan + Gleason + Grossman for Schenn and Coburn.

Schenn is stellar and Coburn is far too vital to our future. That's why he got extended.

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I don't think its atrocious. I'd put that defense right in the middle of the pack of NHL defenses.
It's pretty bad dude.

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01-08-2012, 02:43 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
JVR/Voracek/Couturier/Schenn + 2nd/3rd (which I would be against)

or Simmonds + 1st (which I might be okay with if we didn't need to draft defense)

or Read + high 1st (which we don't have)

or 1st + Read + Cousins (which would make me happy, but ANA wouldn't do it)
Fair enough.

Quote:
Gleason and Grossman don't solve our long-term problems. We have a long-term problem at defense to begin with and then you trade away one of the two or three only long-term solutions we do actually have in our possession at the moment by moving Coburn.

It's a terrible idea.
Grossman and Gleason are both UFAs. Opens up the door to go after Weber or Suter in the offseason.

Quote:
I would not do Ryan + Gleason + Grossman for Schenn and Coburn.

Schenn is stellar and Coburn is far too vital to our future. That's why he got extended.
Fair enough.

Quote:
It's pretty bad dude.
It's not that bad. Timonen and Mez is a good top pairing. Carle-Gleason is probably an average second pairing. Grossman-MAB/Gus is better than Parent-Karjicek from 2010.

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01-08-2012, 03:09 PM
  #68
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cousins? So we trade away who was the best prospect in the world not already playing in the NHL coming into this season in hopes that a 3rd rounder becomes a top center for us 4 years from now?

Maxime Talbot is shooting 18%. He shot 6% last year and 4% the year before. Even in his best seasons he has always been a 4th liner and that isn't about to change in Philly unless our team has gotten that bad to the point where a 4th liner on other teams is our 3rd or even second liner on our team.

The guy is just starting to find his game. 3 points in his last 3 games on the 3rd line. Give him time.
I didn't say give schenn away...if we get bobby Ryan its a steal

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01-08-2012, 03:21 PM
  #69
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I didn't say give schenn away...if we get bobby Ryan its a steal
As high as i am on Bobby Ryan, i wouldn't trade Schenn for him.

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01-08-2012, 03:40 PM
  #70
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As high as i am on Bobby Ryan, i wouldn't trade Schenn for him.
agree 100%. Schenn's ceiling is greater than what Ryan is now. i fully expect Schenn to be a better player than Ryan in 2 to 3 years. JVR is more along where Ryan is at. i would not trade Coburn either.

like someone said, we all love Ryan, but lets just wait until Briere comes off the books and Ryan becomes a UFA and then sign him then.

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01-08-2012, 03:57 PM
  #71
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agree 100%. Schenn's ceiling is greater than what Ryan is now. i fully expect Schenn to be a better player than Ryan in 2 to 3 years. JVR is more along where Ryan is at. i would not trade Coburn either.

like someone said, we all love Ryan, but lets just wait until Briere comes off the books and Ryan becomes a UFA and then sign him then.
Do you really expect Schenn to become a 70 pt Center in2-3 years?

I think that is alot considerding the fact that he will be playing at most on 2nd line.

Considering Giroux scores at a PPG we would have two centers at or above 70 pt's a game?

Ill say this. Schenn is valuable to us for a variety of reasons, including a cheaper contract and a more valuable position. But none of us have seen anything from him at the NHL level to conclude him being better than Ryan in 2-3 years.

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01-08-2012, 04:05 PM
  #72
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As high as i am on Bobby Ryan, i wouldn't trade Schenn for him.
Whaaaa? If ducks offered Ryan for Schenn.. Sign me up ASAP before offer expires. A lot of you guys aren't giving Ryan his due. Ryan has more value than Mike Richards to most fans outside of Philly. I trade schenn or JVR + in a heartbeat for him. The guy is a beast, has a nasty shot and dangles with the best of them. I'd be reluctant to give up couturier, I hold him in n higher regards than JVR or schenn, I have a man crush.

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01-08-2012, 04:09 PM
  #73
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Whaaaa? If ducks offered Ryan for Schenn.. Sign me up ASAP before offer expires. A lot of you guys aren't giving Ryan his due. Ryan has more value than Mike Richards to most fans outside of Philly. I trade schenn or JVR + in a heartbeat for him. The guy is a beast, has a nasty shot and dangles with the best of them. I'd be reluctant to give up couturier, I hold him in n higher regards than JVR or schenn, I have a man crush.
Having him and JVR are redundant imo. So if we were to get ryan id want to trade JVR for him and a pick but not another roster player and especially not READ, but im sure Anaheim would want Read.

As far as Schenn for Ryan you have to do that deal in terms of pure value, though It would weaken us up the middle no doubt.

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01-08-2012, 04:12 PM
  #74
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Not interested in Bobby Ryan. We don't need to break up a great group of forwards for a prima donna.

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01-08-2012, 04:58 PM
  #75
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Do you really expect Schenn to become a 70 pt Center in2-3 years?
I expect Schenn to be a 50-70 point center in 2-3 years (relative to playing time) as much as I expect Ryan to be a 50-70 point winger in 2-3 years.

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I think that is alot considerding the fact that he will be playing at most on 2nd line.
We base our game around depth, maximizing the minutes to production ratio. Regardless of what you want to call him, Schenn will be maximizing our minutes to production ratio with his line within 2-3 years particularly when teams are keying on Giroux and possibly Couturier.

Wingers don't cause match-up problems. Depth down the middle causes match-up problems. Therefore I consider Schenn more valuable to us than Ryan.

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Considering Giroux scores at a PPG we would have two centers at or above 70 pt's a game?
Three. You forgot Couturier.

Odds are down the road they each take minutes and points away from the others, but they'll all be maximizing our minutes to production ratio which is awesome for us.

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Ill say this. Schenn is valuable to us for a variety of reasons, including a cheaper contract and a more valuable position. But none of us have seen anything from him at the NHL level to conclude him being better than Ryan in 2-3 years.
He doesn't need to be better. He just needs to be as good a center, or perhaps a little lesser, as Ryan is a winger to be more valuable to us than Ryan.


Look at that...I determined Schenn to be more valuable, and I didn't even venture into the eventual defensive capabilities of a Giroux -- Couturier -- Schenn trio down the middle and the weight it carries in terms of helping out our future and rapidly diminishing elite blueline.

Schenn for us > Ryan for us

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