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Enforcer philosophy - Canucks vs Wings

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Old
01-08-2012, 09:50 PM
  #51
DJOpus
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Originally Posted by Crows View Post
Actually as soon as the Canucks got up in the game last night they stopped that stuff and started to play hockey and also dive to get powerplays.

Really the only time the bruins pushed the canucks around in the SCF was when they were up by 4-5 goals .
We won the game and lost both Ebbet and Salo. I'd rather send a message in a loss... Because were both going to win our divisions either way.

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01-08-2012, 09:54 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
We won the game and lost both Ebbet and Salo. I'd rather send a message in a loss... Because were both going to win our divisions either way.
Well, I'm glad you're not our coach/GM. Because with that line of thinking, we very well might not win our division.

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01-08-2012, 09:57 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by BLAME CANADA View Post
We aren't beating Boston by fighting back, we'll bet them on the PP. They will slow down the cheap stuff if our PP is run strong that's our key to beating them, as their key is to get the Canucks to play tougher than we are, we can't go toe to toe with them with cheap shots and fights we'll get destroyed, we just don't have the players to go that route with them.
We don't have to worry about them being better fighters if we just don't fight them. If the officials and the league take care of the cheap shots then we can beat them on the PP. If they don't, we need a response from the guys on the 4th line who are getting paid very handsomely to do the job.

If you think the guys on the 4th lines job is to play a solid two way game then I think you're living under a rock. They are their to be physical, provide energy with that physical play and stick up for their teammates. AV has said it, and it's pretty common knowledge tbh.

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01-08-2012, 09:57 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by ganja View Post
Exactly. What did Vancouver to do Marchand? Nothing. Why? Watch the replay, Chara right inbetween him and everyone else. No response.
a response wouldnt have fixed sami salo, but they did literally win the ****ing game because they didn't respond

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01-08-2012, 10:00 PM
  #55
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I think the question is whether or not this would help the other guys on the team. Would having a physically intimidating force out there like Neil or someone make our guys tougher by association? We have some big bodies with good speed and last year in the playoffs we saw how physical this team can be...I just can't help but wonder if a guy who could cover our players backs might bring out a bit more in our physical game, and on the forecheck on a more consistent basis.

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01-08-2012, 10:09 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
We don't have to worry about them being better fighters if we just don't fight them. If the officials and the league take care of the cheap shots then we can beat them on the PP. If they don't, we need a response from the guys on the 4th line who are getting paid very handsomely to do the job.

If you think the guys on the 4th lines job is to play a solid two way game then I think you're living under a rock. They are their to be physical, provide energy with that physical play and stick up for their teammates. AV has said it, and it's pretty common knowledge tbh.
That's a lot different from what your saying, your saying these guys need to goon it up and take runs at their star players knees and take them out all that will do is for them to take out our stars and we don't have the toughness to play ball with the Bruins in that way.

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01-08-2012, 10:12 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Bobby Lou View Post
I think the question is whether or not this would help the other guys on the team. Would having a physically intimidating force out there like Neil or someone make our guys tougher by association? We have some big bodies with good speed and last year in the playoffs we saw how physical this team can be...I just can't help but wonder if a guy who could cover our players backs might bring out a bit more in our physical game, and on the forecheck on a more consistent basis.
anyone like neil, brought in, would be told to "play hockey" and whatever strength people think we'd gain by adding him would be overshadowed by a culture of dudes who dont want to waste time after whistles. it wouldnt accomplish anything

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01-08-2012, 10:21 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
anyone like neil, brought in, would be told to "play hockey" and whatever strength people think we'd gain by adding him would be overshadowed by a culture of dudes who dont want to waste time after whistles. it wouldnt accomplish anything
Agreed.

Also, Chris Neil would be a liability. He is top ten in the NHL in MINOR penalties taken.

The Canucks are 27th in the league in PIMS and need to focus on staying out of the box...otherwise Kesler, Higgins, Burrows expend way too much energy killing penalties.

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01-08-2012, 10:22 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Tank Hankerous View Post
Agreed.

Also, Chris Neil would be a liability. He is top ten in the NHL in MINOR penalties taken.

The Canucks are 27th in the league in PIMS and need to focus on staying out of the box...otherwise Kesler, Higgins, Burrows expend way too much energy killing penalties.
''Max Lapierre is a liability because he takes too many penalties and talks to much and will never fit in''


How'd that work out?

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01-08-2012, 10:23 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by BLAME CANADA View Post
we don't have the toughness to play ball with the Bruins in that way.
You keep saying that but it doesn't make it true. We do have a team that can hit with the Bruins and they have to be able to stick up for their teammates. What they don't have to do is fight, at least not the fights they can't win.

If the Bruins come out taking runs at the twins, or smacking them around after the whistle, or whatever else and it's not being called then we need to do the same to Krejci and Begeron and Seguin and it should be the guys on the 4th line that do it. AV knows the game, he does a good job getting the 4th line out at the end of the top players shift once in a while. Unfortunately, we have had a lot of guys on this team that couldn't figure out their role.

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01-08-2012, 10:26 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by BLAME CANADA View Post
That's a lot different from what your saying, your saying these guys need to goon it up and take runs at their star players knees and take them out all that will do is for them to take out our stars and we don't have the toughness to play ball with the Bruins in that way.
If you haven't noticed they already take runs at our stars and rough then up all the time...we need to make it unworthwhile for them to continue doing that.

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01-08-2012, 10:29 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
If you haven't noticed they already take runs at our stars and rough then up all the time...we need to make it unworthwhile for them to continue doing that.
We did. By winning the game.

Any coach that isn't focused on getting the win is a bad coach. If we keep doing this to teams, they will have to retool their plans.

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Old
01-08-2012, 10:30 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
You keep saying that but it doesn't make it true. We do have a team that can hit with the Bruins and they have to be able to stick up for their teammates. What they don't have to do is fight, at least not the fights they can't win.

If the Bruins come out taking runs at the twins, or smacking them around after the whistle, or whatever else and it's not being called then we need to do the same to Krejci and Begeron and Seguin and it should be the guys on the 4th line that do it. AV knows the game, he does a good job getting the 4th line out at the end of the top players shift once in a while. Unfortunately, we have had a lot of guys on this team that couldn't figure out their role.
Your way off and if you think Vancouver can match Boston for a hard hitting goon type game it'll just be the same results of last year as in we get injured, hurt and lose and spend the offseason in the hospital.

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01-08-2012, 10:33 PM
  #64
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There's no need for an enforcer if our players stick up for themselves after the whistle, which they did on Saturday. It didn't fare well, but that's not the point. Just showing that you won't take sh** from the other team is good enough. Most of the time, post-whistle scrums involve face-washes and stickwork. It doesn't have to take an enforcer to do this.

Having one enforcer isn't going to scare off the Bruins, who can roll out Shawn Thornton, Milan Lucic and Zdeno Chara. If our one enforcer takes on Lucic, who takes on Chara? Thornton? We can't try to out-enforce the Bruins. Their enforcers are also very skilled players. If we want to match enforcer-for-enforcer with them, it means having an entire 4th line made up of very unskilled players who will be a liability 4 or 5 minutes every game. How scary would it be when this line is out for a defensive zone faceoff against the opposition top line in the playoffs?

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01-08-2012, 10:35 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
If you haven't noticed they already take runs at our stars and rough then up all the time...we need to make it unworthwhile for them to continue doing that.
So over playing a hockey game and scoring goals you want to retaliate and go cheap shot them to put them on the PP in the SCF? no that's not how your going to win. We need to make them pay on the PP and keep the trash talking/pesting under control, keep THEIR emotion cool. Make them pay for their mistake don't go and play their game and put us a man down and watch them score on the PP and hurt our players.

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01-08-2012, 10:37 PM
  #66
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I know this is a bit of a stretch maybe, but what about Sean Avery? He has offensive skill, and can go. Maybe overload on the pest scenario, but worth a try? Too much drama into the lockeroom? Could he be disciplined? Too risky? He seemed to try and tone it down before he was released from the Rangers.

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01-08-2012, 10:39 PM
  #67
Taco Fingerhat
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I know this is a bit of a stretch maybe, but what about Sean Avery? He has offensive skill, and can go. Maybe overload on the pest scenario, but worth a try? Too much drama into the lockeroom? Could he be disciplined? Too risky? He seemed to try and tone it down before he was released from the Rangers.
NYR are the only team that could even come close to taming Avery, and they demoted him. Not worth our time.

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01-08-2012, 10:43 PM
  #68
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Interesting point about the nux having more agitators than Detroit, hence why they might need a goon. Will have to think on that a bit. Could be something to it.





My thought is that in order to succeed vs. Boston, the team needs to get better 5 on 5. That is the primary focus. Do that, and everything else will be righted. If the team can't, then it's going to continue to have problems vs. the B's.


Put another way: it's not about team toughness at all, it's about dictating the flow of the hockey game. That's essentially what needs to be done. And it's what the B's do well. They play a very aggressive style which gives them an edge against teams at even strength. They play knowing that they will take penalties. Other teams play avoiding trying to take penalties. This is a huge shift in focus. If the penalties are evened out during the course of a game, then the B's have just dictated the flow of the game without paying a price. On the flipside, If the nux are better able to dictate the game at even strength via skill, then they will have taken the B's biggest advantage away from them.


Basically, become a better team and the B's will have to adjust, but don't adjust to them.

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01-08-2012, 10:48 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by yoss View Post
I know this is a bit of a stretch maybe, but what about Sean Avery? He has offensive skill, and can go. Maybe overload on the pest scenario, but worth a try? Too much drama into the lockeroom? Could he be disciplined? Too risky? He seemed to try and tone it down before he was released from the Rangers.
How much more hated do you want us to be? Avery is such a bad idea.

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01-08-2012, 10:51 PM
  #70
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Remember how exciting it was when Odjick first broke into the league? I definitely think Vancouver could use a guy like that.

Many playoff games enforcers sit in the press box depending on the opposition and the series, but I think it still probably makes the other team think twice about taking liberties.

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01-08-2012, 10:52 PM
  #71
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We don't need an enforcer. They're a waste of of a spot and will contribute little to our puck possession style of play. I liked that we gave as good as we got last game. We didn't always do that in the SCF, but rather looked to the refs to bail us out. Much less bailing out is going to happen in the playoffs. That's just the reality of the situation. If we want to beat the Bruins - and this is a huge hypothetical since we haven't a) made the playoffs, b) got the SCF or c) Bruins do likewise - we simply need to crack their defense 5 on 5 with more regularity. The re-vamped second line with Booth is a good start. So is Cody Hodgson playing with quality linemates on the third. But it will fall to the Sedins to find a consistent way through.

That's where this hypothetical matchup will be decided: 5 on 5. We put pressure on them 5 on 5, they either surrender a goal or they take a defensive penalty and we beat them on the PP. We put pressure on them 5 on 5 and they think twice about the chippy stuff after the whistle because they're exhausted from being hemmed in their own zone. We put pressure on them 5 on 5 and guys like Shawn Thorton aren't even in the equation.

A lot of this falls on the coaching staff. They need to tell the players what to key in on - I'd say finding ways to keep the Bruins from gaining possession down low with crisp quick outlets - and even with the refs largely swallowing the whistle, this team has, in its current configuration with minor tweaks, what it takes to go all the way (luck and health notwithstanding).

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01-08-2012, 10:53 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
''Max Lapierre is a liability because he takes too many penalties and talks to much and will never fit in''


How'd that work out?
Agreed. When you are a top team guys want to play for you and will change their game accordingly. I personally would love Neil or a similar type of player at the deadline.

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01-08-2012, 10:54 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Taco Fingerhat View Post
NYR are the only team that could even come close to taming Avery, and they demoted him. Not worth our time.
Yes but he has some skill, who knows what kind of team chemistry he might add. I think it would be an interesting experiment at least. Put him on an immediate Cup contender? That might persuade him to be disciplined.

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01-08-2012, 10:55 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by BLAME CANADA View Post
How much more hated do you want us to be? Avery is such a bad idea.
lol fair enough. I'm more just brainstorming, not saying it is a good idea. Might be hard to make a case for Avery. You never know though, Vancouver is a different team.

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01-08-2012, 10:59 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by BLAME CANADA View Post
We aren't beating Boston by fighting back, we'll bet them on the PP. They will slow down the cheap stuff if our PP is run strong that's our key to beating them, as their key is to get the Canucks to play tougher than we are, we can't go toe to toe with them with cheap shots and fights we'll get destroyed, we just don't have the players to go that route with them.
doesnt matter if the nucks are good on the pp which makes teams pay. they will still eventually wanna try dirty tactics to hurt the canucks no matter what. what if at some point in the playoffs, refs are gonna put their whistles away. given vancouver's reputation of whinning/diving they don't get alot of respect. half their roster are guys the refs "tend to call on." lappy/burrows/kesler.

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