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Will Bryzgalov ever be worth his contract?

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Old
01-09-2012, 03:22 AM
  #951
BillDineen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Luckily, the Bryz experiment is unfolding in a manner that might keep Snider from doing that again.
Snider is getting up there in age, he might not be in position to make the same type of decision in 9 years.

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01-09-2012, 03:24 AM
  #952
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Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
Snider is getting up there in age, he might not be in position to make the same type of decision in 9 years.
I don't mean in 9 years, I mean right now concerning defensemen.

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01-09-2012, 04:22 AM
  #953
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Screw Gleason, or anyone else.

Suck it up and wait until the offseason, then acquire one of Suter or Weber. Preferably Weber. IMO, that's where I'd like to see assets go. Let's be honest with ourselves; this isn't a Cup team anyways. Not this year. The best thing Homer can do is set them up for the future, methinks.
I don't think we're a cup winning team this year either, but going some ways in the playoffs would be an invaluable experience for some of our younger guys. Not only our rookies, but also for guys like Voracek and Simmonds who've never been past the first round. I still hope we add another dman before the deadline, but I don't want to trade any roster players, and I want to keep our first rounder. A pick and/or Phantoms body for someone like Gleason is still a trade I would like to see happen.

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01-09-2012, 04:31 AM
  #954
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I find it pretty laughable how all of a sudden all people here start claiming that they never wanted Bryz and how much better Vokoun or Theodore or somebody else would have been.

Bryz used to be the best available goaltender on paper but we signed him to a horrible contract.
You just can't give away a 9 year deal to a player who has not even played a single game for your organization!

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01-09-2012, 05:13 AM
  #955
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Okay, before anymore nonsense gets said about our defense and the "terrible" job they've been doing...

SHOTS AGAINST PER GAME
1. St. Louis - 26.6
2. Pittsburgh - 26.8
3. Detroit - 27.2
4. New Jersey - 28.1
5. San Jose - 28.1
6. Montreal - 28.7
7. Philadelphia - 28.9

GOALS AGAINST PER GAME
23. Philadelphia - 2.98
24. Toronto - 3.15
25. Columbus - 3.15
26. New York (I) - 3.15
27. Anaheim - 3.20
28. Ottawa - 3.28
29. Carolina - 3.33
30. Tampa Bay - 3.35
While I'm not disagreeing with you, it doesn't help your case when NJ is listed #4 in the league in shots against yet their defense is one of the worst Ive seen in a long time. This is a known fact by the way...

There's a difference between giving up shots and giving up QUALITY shots. I only watched the NHL.com highlights but you guys gave up some serious scoring chances which led to goals. I think the only one that was really on Bryz was Karlssons goal.

On the other hand I understand that you would really love for this guy to make some game changing saves which could really 'steal' a game for you once in a while, not just make the ones he's supposed to.

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01-09-2012, 05:34 AM
  #956
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The debate we should have been having in this thread was if Bryz was simply a good, consistent goalie or was he the great goalie he is paid to be and stealing the occasional game.

Instead for some bizarre reason, while some are pointing out he has not even been an average goalie, some are still defending him. What they are defending does not make any sense. "Winning" an argument that he has been average, is still losing.

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01-09-2012, 06:16 AM
  #957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
The debate we should have been having in this thread was if Bryz was simply a good, consistent goalie or was he the great goalie he is paid to be and stealing the occasional game.

Instead for some bizarre reason, while some are pointing out he has not even been an average goalie, some are still defending him. What they are defending does not make any sense. "Winning" an argument that he has been average, is still losing.
One can accept that he is a mental case and will never be a great goaltender for this team and expect the worst for 8! more years

OR

Back him up and hope he will turn it around and the team will not be stuck with his untradeable contract until Armageddon.

Two options. You chose...

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01-09-2012, 07:30 AM
  #958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
The debate we should have been having in this thread was if Bryz was simply a good, consistent goalie or was he the great goalie he is paid to be and stealing the occasional game.

Instead for some bizarre reason, while some are pointing out he has not even been an average goalie, some are still defending him. What they are defending does not make any sense. "Winning" an argument that he has been average, is still losing.
Not at all. Taking an untenable position just makes for a boring discussion and insincere debate. I would rather people actually debate their genuine beliefs, which is what you're getting.

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01-09-2012, 07:58 AM
  #959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Luckily, the Bryz experiment is unfolding in a manner that might keep Snider from doing that again.
I'd say the damage has been done though. His tantrum already cost us a few players. I'm really worried it's gonna cost us Bob, too.

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01-09-2012, 11:09 AM
  #960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRTtoZ View Post
While I'm not disagreeing with you, it doesn't help your case when NJ is listed #4 in the league in shots against yet their defense is one of the worst Ive seen in a long time. This is a known fact by the way...

There's a difference between giving up shots and giving up QUALITY shots. I only watched the NHL.com highlights but you guys gave up some serious scoring chances which led to goals. I think the only one that was really on Bryz was Karlssons goal.

On the other hand I understand that you would really love for this guy to make some game changing saves which could really 'steal' a game for you once in a while, not just make the ones he's supposed to.
You can't convince me. I'm the one who created that argument about Tampa's defense last year, and people on HFboards said I was out of my mind. HFboards is filled with hypocrites.

That said, I know full well that there are discrepancies between quality of shots, however that doesn't seem to be the case here.

While there is a case to be made about the defense blowing it for Bryzgalov in the last two games and even against NY in the WC, the difference between Bryzgalov's consistent GAA and Bobrovsky's consistent GAA as a goalie used intermittently though often through that same period of time displays a huge issue with the "defense giving up too many quality chances" argument.

This is also not a Tampa or New Jersey defense scenario. We have Timonen, Coburn, Meszaros, and Carle; as legitimate a top 4 as you can find in the NHL.

The truth is we don't play a system geared toward Bryzgalov, and on top of that, Bryzgalov is going through a disastrous slump.

Bob was playing fine before. Our "bad" defense didn't effect him. Bryz has just sucked.

Then in the last two games, when Bryz hasn't sucked, our defense has sucked against a pretty slick offense. Karlsson is a monster. Reminds a lot of how Mike Green was used in Washington when the Caps offense was unstoppable. A lot of people think that was Ovechkin's show, but it was really Green's doing. Since he got hurt, there's been a drastic change. I need to watch more Ottawa, but I think Karlsson may actually be the key to their offense and their recent success. Even still, it's a slick offense that can get at you in a number of ways. Blown leads are never excusable, but it's not like we gave up to the Isles.


Back to the Flyers: We could use a physical stay at home vet to get Lilja off the freaking ice. Bourdon is young, and I'd like to get someone more stable than him, but for now he's fine. The rest of our defense is fine. Carle has stepped up in Pronger's absence, Coburn is still solid, Meszaros is the man, and Timonen, last I checked, is still Timonen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dats81 View Post
I find it pretty laughable how all of a sudden all people here start claiming that they never wanted Bryz and how much better Vokoun or Theodore or somebody else would have been.

Bryz used to be the best available goaltender on paper but we signed him to a horrible contract.
You just can't give away a 9 year deal to a player who has not even played a single game for your organization!
I wanted Vokoun, but I would've been okay with Bobrovsky -- Boucher. The ONLY thing I didn't want to do was spend money.

We not only spent money, we spent money on a guy I didn't want.


Last edited by CS: 01-09-2012 at 11:14 AM.
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Old
01-09-2012, 11:36 AM
  #961
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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
I'd say the damage has been done though. His tantrum already cost us a few players. I'm really worried it's gonna cost us Bob, too.
It's a 9-year contract. It's already cost us Bob.

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01-09-2012, 11:52 AM
  #962
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It's a 9-year contract. It's already cost us Bob.
What I should have said is 'I'm worried it's going to cost us a goalie who is going to be better than him' (Bob)

Bob hasn't reached that point yet, but I don't really think there's that much of a difference between the two, and Bob's ceiling is higher.

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01-09-2012, 12:39 PM
  #963
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
What I should have said is 'I'm worried it's going to cost us a goalie who is going to be better than him' (Bob)

Bob hasn't reached that point yet, but I don't really think there's that much of a difference between the two, and Bob's ceiling is higher.
I knew that going in and was ok with it. I had no problem with losing a goalie with a higher ceiling than the new guy if the guy we were getting was going to play at a level that would bring the team a Cup (i.e. a higher level than Bob is at now). That still may happen, but if it doesn't, it will be a shame to lose a guy like Bob.

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01-09-2012, 12:40 PM
  #964
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Bryzgalov + 2nd/3rd to Columbus for CLB 2nd in 2012. Please?

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01-09-2012, 12:49 PM
  #965
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does anyone here truely beleive there is another team in this league that would touch that contract ???

unless there is someway to cancel it (i dont know if thats possible) then we are like the Canucks, stuck with a headcase Goalie..

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01-09-2012, 12:51 PM
  #966
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Bryzgalov + 2nd/3rd to Columbus for CLB 2nd in 2012. Please?
Does Bryz have value? Might have to be Gauthied: Bryz + 2nd for future considerations.

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01-09-2012, 12:51 PM
  #967
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I know its early in his contract and I am still confident he will turn it around (flame on...), but I think if things continue to go this way, Bryz seems like the type of player who would be happy to waive his NMC just to get away from Philly. Finding a team that will take him on the other hand...

But for real I think it is too early to talk about getting rid of him, even if he continues to suck for the remainder of this season. He has shown (maybe not here) that he can play at a high level.

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01-09-2012, 12:58 PM
  #968
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Bob stays at least till the offseason or should especially since Bryz is so off this year. Losing him I think will be a massively regrettable thing but I fear it will happen. If they package him in such a way that it nets us a big time impact D man I will be able to stomach it much better.

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01-09-2012, 12:59 PM
  #969
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We should realize... Right now Bryzgalov has a much value as Huet in hist 1st and 2nd year with Hawks.

If some crazy GM (lets say Columbus) calls about Bryzgalov he should be gone. He clearly does not work here.

Flyers fans should not wait a year for this guy to get his game going. Are you kidding me?

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01-09-2012, 02:09 PM
  #970
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I still think everyone needs to relax. We are starting to see glimpses of the goalie he really is, and he hasn't had one moment this year of being comfortable. Is that acceptable given his contract? No not at all, but he is moving towards being comfortable and confident. Wait until you see him hit that moment. Once you are confident with a new team and comfortable with all the media and fans, he will be able to have a bad game and bounce back. Right now he can't bounce back to where he was with the Coyotes because he isn't there anymore.

That said, all this talk about another team not being interested in him is crazy. If you are a small market team, not only do you have tons of cap space, but you can take a chance on a goalie like Bryz. Bryz is proven on a small market team, just like Luongo was etc. There are no distractions, and when you have a bad game you don't have any fans calling for your head because you don't have any fans.

RELAX! Bryz will be fine, everyone just needs to chill the **** out. He had a great game the other day and at times on Sunday he looked just as good. The only goal that was weak imo was the Karlsson goal.

I think we all need to realize what the real problem with this team is... DEFENSE. I will agree that the biggest problem right now is goaltending, but I honestly think (as well as the organization) that the goaltending will fix itself in time. The real problem is that the defense is getting worse.

We play a system that requires our defense to pinch into O zone, and players like bourdon/lilja aren't capable of playing it. The result is odd man rushes the opposite way, which don't need to be happening. We need to trade for a top 2 Dman immediately or this is going to continue.

Bryz will start stealing games in the 2nd half of the season. Just as soon and Tim Panaccio stops asking him ridiculously stupid questions is my guess..

also: http://video.flyers.nhl.com/videocen...=771&id=148257 his interviews are getting better and listen to Lavvy too... things are getting better

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01-09-2012, 02:14 PM
  #971
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Just as soon and Tim Panaccio stops asking him ridiculously stupid questions is my guess..
We're ****ing doomed! Abandon ship!

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01-09-2012, 02:14 PM
  #972
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I'm going to make my decision when I see how this guy does in the playoffs for us.

If he plays worse than Bob, then this contract is a complete waste.

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01-09-2012, 02:37 PM
  #973
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I still think everyone needs to relax. We are starting to see glimpses of the goalie he really is, and he hasn't had one moment this year of being comfortable. Is that acceptable given his contract? No not at all, but he is moving towards being comfortable and confident. Wait until you see him hit that moment. Once you are confident with a new team and comfortable with all the media and fans, he will be able to have a bad game and bounce back. Right now he can't bounce back to where he was with the Coyotes because he isn't there anymore.

That said, all this talk about another team not being interested in him is crazy. If you are a small market team, not only do you have tons of cap space, but you can take a chance on a goalie like Bryz. Bryz is proven on a small market team, just like Luongo was etc. There are no distractions, and when you have a bad game you don't have any fans calling for your head because you don't have any fans.

RELAX! Bryz will be fine, everyone just needs to chill the **** out. He had a great game the other day and at times on Sunday he looked just as good. The only goal that was weak imo was the Karlsson goal.

I think we all need to realize what the real problem with this team is... DEFENSE. I will agree that the biggest problem right now is goaltending, but I honestly think (as well as the organization) that the goaltending will fix itself in time. The real problem is that the defense is getting worse.

We play a system that requires our defense to pinch into O zone, and players like bourdon/lilja aren't capable of playing it. The result is odd man rushes the opposite way, which don't need to be happening. We need to trade for a top 2 Dman immediately or this is going to continue.

Bryz will start stealing games in the 2nd half of the season. Just as soon and Tim Panaccio stops asking him ridiculously stupid questions is my guess..

also: http://video.flyers.nhl.com/videocen...=771&id=148257 his interviews are getting better and listen to Lavvy too... things are getting better
I agree with that.

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01-09-2012, 02:39 PM
  #974
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Expecting Timmy P to not ask stupid questions is like expecting the sun to turn blue. It probably won't ever happen.

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01-09-2012, 02:42 PM
  #975
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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
I'd say the damage has been done though. His tantrum already cost us a few players. I'm really worried it's gonna cost us Bob, too.
This is already a foregone conclusion, in my opinion, and not one I'm happy about. It's probably one of the main reasons the Flyers signed Hovinen over the summer (he's expected to come across the pond next season).

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