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#40|Jan. 8, 2012|Flyers at Senators |5:00 p.m. ET

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01-08-2012, 10:27 PM
  #951
CSKA1974
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Originally Posted by PhillyFlying View Post
3rd blown 2-goal lead in the last 4 games.
And that is very troubling.

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01-08-2012, 11:19 PM
  #952
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IMO, Patrick Roy, Lundquist, and Tim Thomas would not have good numbers on the current Flyers team with the current coach's system.
Brian Boucher and Sergei Bobrovsky say hello. They posted a .916 and a .914 save percentage respectively playing behind the same system with the defense just as mistake prone (at least in the second half).

I think a defensive system would help, but it's absurd to pretend that no goalie could play in Laviolette's system when garbage like Leighton and Boucher had no problem.

If there is any problem it's that the Flyers lost/got rid all of their best defensive forwards and lost Pronger due to injury.

That doesn't give Bryzgalov a free pass for playing like an AHL goalie, however.

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01-08-2012, 11:21 PM
  #953
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This team reminds me a lot of the 09-10 Caps in many ways, but without that Ovechkin guy.

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01-08-2012, 11:43 PM
  #954
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Brian Boucher and Sergei Bobrovsky say hello. They posted a .916 and a .914 save percentage respectively playing behind the same system with the defense just as mistake prone (at least in the second half).

I think a defensive system would help, but it's absurd to pretend that no goalie could play in Laviolette's system when garbage like Leighton and Boucher had no problem.

If there is any problem it's that the Flyers lost/got rid all of their best defensive forwards and lost Pronger due to injury.That doesn't give Bryzgalov a free pass for playing like an AHL goalie, however.
Exactly. And therefore the system has to be adjusted. One can't use the battle plan that was successful before, if the ship sprung a leak. That's all I have been saying.

I am not advocating that Bryz is the best thing that hapenned to Flyers since sliced bread. He has to man up or yield to Bob. But, by the same token, no one shoud get a "free pass" when the team is not performing.

I want this team to win and I want it to win big. I really do not care which goalie hoists the Stanley Cup as long as the team wins it.

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01-09-2012, 12:01 AM
  #955
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the system is not the problem. the goals that both goalies are allowing have little to do with the system. goals that ECHL goalies should stop are going in.
a 2 goal lead again gets blown up late in the game. inexcusable.
Someone mentioned Boucher and Bobrovsky last year and the save percentage over .910.
I am beginning to wonder if Bryzgalov can handle the pressure. nevermind the fact that he seems weak mentally when he gives up a bad goal.
another soft goal today. Yet some people think that is ok and acceptable to only allow 1 soft goal per game

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01-09-2012, 02:11 AM
  #956
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This team reminds me a lot of the 09-10 Caps in many ways, but without that Ovechkin guy.
I was actually going to go there in one of my previous responses. Except this team has more of the pride and desire, just not quite the horses. Maybe one of the previous 2 Caps teams.

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01-09-2012, 02:16 AM
  #957
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agreed, bourdon had a horrible pinch today that led to that 3 on 1.not to mention carle scoring on his own goaltender.... we need one more good d man to pair with mez and to bring gus up. then if bryz still lets up 4 goals consistantly i'll start blaming bryz. until then i can't pin it on a goalie when he has inconsistant team d played in front of him.
Bourdon was trying to support Jagr there right as Karlsson was winning the puck from Jagr...bad timing. Bourdon, for his part, skated hard and got back in time to cover the trailing man of the three attackers. Carle took the pass on the remaning 2 on 1 and well, Bryz couldn't make the save. It wasn't the best moment to pinch but I've seen worse...at least he got back to cover.

IMO, Bourdon doesn't deserve any more blame than most of the other D corps. As a rookie, he's going to make mistakes, but I think he makes lots of good plays too, like bodying guys coming across the blueline, blocking shots and shot attempts, making decent passes out of the zone, and he's starting to get more shots lately.

It's easy to point to the rook for blame when he makes any mistakes but I don't think Bourdon is the cause, per se, of the d sucking (at times)...that said, one can certainly make an argument that having to play Bourdon in place of Pronger is a big factor. His presence is sorely missed. Ideally, you want a reliable and experienced veteran to take his place but we don't have that (yet). Honestly, I don't mind playing Bourdon for now. I like his game and think it's good to get him some NHL experience even if it means dealing with the occasional rookie gaffe. Now, if the team starts losing a bunch and Bourdon's bad play is part of that, then things change.

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01-09-2012, 06:28 AM
  #958
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The coach's job is to implement a system that is best for his personnel. Obviously Laviolette has not done so. Four goals allowed in a third period = bad coaching.

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01-09-2012, 06:37 AM
  #959
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And that is very troubling.
That is very system. Systems surrender leads.

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01-09-2012, 07:18 AM
  #960
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isn't chief the coach on the defensive side of the team? isn't it about time to point some of the blame for blown leads, turnovers and defensive break downs(i think carle scoring on his own net constitutes as a break down) on chief and his lackluster defensive coaching? if i remember correctly we named hatcher as some kind of player development coach for the flyers, i think its time to give him a chance and see what he can do with these guys.

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01-09-2012, 07:37 AM
  #961
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I think it would be best if we did what we could not not deflect blame from where it belongs - on the coach.

Teams who are routinely outworked, who are repeatedly caught out of position, who yield such a high number of odd man rushes, and who routinely give up leads are just not well coached at all.

Coaches are supposed to assess their personnel, assess the opposition, and implement a game plan that considers both. Obviously, this Laviolette guy isn't very good at that.

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01-09-2012, 07:48 AM
  #962
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
I think it would be best if we did what we could not not deflect blame from where it belongs - on the coach.

Teams who are routinely outworked, who are repeatedly caught out of position, who yield such a high number of odd man rushes, and who routinely give up leads are just not well coached at all.

Coaches are supposed to assess their personnel, assess the opposition, and implement a game plan that considers both. Obviously, this Laviolette guy isn't very good at that.
i will say this, you do make a convincing argument.

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01-09-2012, 07:52 AM
  #963
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
I think it would be best if we did what we could not not deflect blame from where it belongs - on the coach.

Teams who are routinely outworked, who are repeatedly caught out of position, who yield such a high number of odd man rushes, and who routinely give up leads are just not well coached at all.

Coaches are supposed to assess their personnel, assess the opposition, and implement a game plan that considers both. Obviously, this Laviolette guy isn't very good at that.
Aren't you the same guy who repeatedly blamed the players when people called out John Stevens for not even having a gameplan? The bolded is exactly what people said about Stevens.

The biggest problem I see with the composition of the roster (I'm excluding the goalies because we can all see the problem there) is our lack of defensive prowess up front. Giroux is not gonna be our shutdown guy because we need him to score, and we can't look to Briere for that. Our best shutdown line is going to have Couturier centering it, and that's unfair to put on a rookie, but it's going to be our only hope.

I can't see this being anything other than a restructuring year, so we might as well let the rookies grow as much as possible.

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01-09-2012, 08:05 AM
  #964
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Carle with -4. Wtf?

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01-09-2012, 08:07 AM
  #965
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Carle with -4. Wtf?
carle had a bad game with some turnovers, good ( bad ) old carl from first part of season was back :s

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01-09-2012, 08:11 AM
  #966
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i'm really starting to wonder if the absents type A personality of pronger is being missed a little more than we think. i don't see anyone else on the team calling people out(remember pronger ringing out giroux for bad defense even though he had a 2 point game?) and keeping people focused on the ice(24 7 period 3 start joking andlaughing about goal celebrations before the puck dropped instead of being focused on keeping thay 2 to one lead). i think this is a team without leadership(kimmo and danny are by example guys) and without a mature sense of focus during the game.

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01-09-2012, 08:26 AM
  #967
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Haven't read all the comments in this thread but when talking about turnovers and bad defense (which I certainly won't argue against), you need to include everyone that was guilty...Simmonds, Briere, Jagr and Lilja were turnover kings last night. Hell, Simmonds turned the puck over three times in their zone on the same shift. And for the amazing game Briere had the night before, he just got muscled off the puck way too many times. Even Giroux had a terrible game...had no impact whatsoever.

It seems like every night, I'm cursing Lilja's name at least 5 times...is he really as bad as I'm seeing he is or am I just crazy?

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01-09-2012, 08:34 AM
  #968
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turnovers are killing us and leaving the d out of posistion and the goalie high and dry.i don't know how they can fix it(maybe have them do suicides until they thow up like n miracle?) but there are a lot of good players making bad fundamental mistakes. they hav e to get back to basics and stop passing the puck like the team with the prettiests goals and not the most goals wins. not a lot of battles being won( the 5th goal came from 2 flyers losing a puck battle with one sen behind our own net) and the insane turnovers in all ends of the ice have to stop.

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01-09-2012, 09:07 AM
  #969
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I find it difficult to blame the "system" when we have players constantly trying to make blind passes, "rim around the board" passes, and backhand passes to break out of our defensive zone ... that's not a system failure or a coaching failure, that is pure laziness on the part of every player wearing a flyers crest

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01-09-2012, 09:41 AM
  #970
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It seems like every night, I'm cursing Lilja's name at least 5 times...is he really as bad as I'm seeing he is or am I just crazy?
nope, ur not crazy he is that bad or worse..

def. a player vying for the most useless player on the roster trophy..

Shelley must be nervous.

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01-09-2012, 10:15 AM
  #971
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nope, ur not crazy he is that bad or worse..

def. a player vying for the most irrelevant player on the roster trophy..

Shelley must be nervous.
There, fixed it for you, haha.

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01-09-2012, 10:23 AM
  #972
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Personally I don't see how you can blame the coach/system. The teams 24-12-4 not a bad record with a bunch of new players/rookies, #1 dman is out for the season, and the goalie is under performing. Last night there's a lot of sloppy turnovers, and there seems to be a few weak links on this team(Lilja). OD >>> Lilja

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01-09-2012, 10:26 AM
  #973
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missed the game. Did Bryz blow it?
he gave up 5 goals

1. man cruising all alone down the slot, slam dunks in the centering pass
2. point shot through 4 players, rebound to a player off to the side of the net all alone, slides it under a prone Bryz
3. Flyers tip in the centering pass past Bryz
4. Jagr turnover @ OTT blue line, Bourdon pinches for some reason, leads to a 3 on 1, shooter beats Bryz 5 hole
5. Point shot into 4 players, deflects off a Flyer into the corner

Bryz probably should have had the 4th one [despite Jagr / Bourdon mistakes]

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01-09-2012, 10:50 AM
  #974
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The coach's job is to implement a system that is best for his personnel. Obviously Laviolette has not done so. Four goals allowed in a third period = bad coaching.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
That is very system. Systems surrender leads.
Are you sure he has not done so? The team has the 3rd most points in the conference and 2nd most road wins in the league, with their best defenseman only having played 13 games and their $51M goaltender essentially admitting to the media that he is the second best goaltender on the team, and the roster more and more people are admitting is not good enough. You couldn't ask for the team to be in a better position at this point in the season, they should be 6-10.

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01-09-2012, 10:57 AM
  #975
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
he gave up 5 goals

1. man cruising all alone down the slot, slam dunks in the centering pass
2. point shot through 4 players, rebound to a player off to the side of the net all alone, slides it under a prone Bryz
3. Flyers tip in the centering pass past Bryz
4. Jagr turnover @ OTT blue line, Bourdon pinches for some reason, leads to a 3 on 1, shooter beats Bryz 5 hole
5. Point shot into 4 players, deflects off a Flyer into the corner

Bryz probably should have had the 4th one [despite Jagr / Bourdon mistakes]
The 4th one wasn't necessarily a bad goal, but it's the type of save Bryz is being paid to make. Karlsson made a pretty good play to look off Bryz, but to justify his cap hit those are the big saves (and he certainly made some) that the Flyers need from him.

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