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Hockey Stick length and lie

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Old
01-09-2012, 10:57 AM
  #1
nyk16
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Hockey Stick length and lie

Hello. I am new to this website. Please forgive me if I am not posting correctly. Here goes....

I have been told that in order to detemine proper lie, you look at the pattern of tape wear on the bottom of the stick. If it's on the heel, consider a lower lie. My problem is that I miss passes when the puck slides under the toe of my blade, and I have tape wear only on the heel so there is definately a problem. However, I'm already using a low lie (Warrior 4 lie). I know that shortening the stick may help solve the problem, but my stick length while wearing skates is up to my bottom lip so it looks like I do have the right length. I play D so I would like to keep this length if possible.

Any comments/suggestions would be appreciated. Thx.

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01-09-2012, 11:03 AM
  #2
Leo Trollmarov
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Stand up. Sounds like you play hunched over if it is the right length and you're still getting heel wear.

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01-09-2012, 03:30 PM
  #3
shawn1331
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Kind of sounds like bad technique and practice will improve of that, unless it's an issue you've only had with this one stick.

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01-09-2012, 04:16 PM
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ponder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyk16 View Post
Hello. I am new to this website. Please forgive me if I am not posting correctly. Here goes....

I have been told that in order to detemine proper lie, you look at the pattern of tape wear on the bottom of the stick. If it's on the heel, consider a lower lie. My problem is that I miss passes when the puck slides under the toe of my blade, and I have tape wear only on the heel so there is definately a problem. However, I'm already using a low lie (Warrior 4 lie). I know that shortening the stick may help solve the problem, but my stick length while wearing skates is up to my bottom lip so it looks like I do have the right length. I play D so I would like to keep this length if possible.

Any comments/suggestions would be appreciated. Thx.
That's actually a very long stick. I'd say the general range for stick heights is:
- chin height on skates is quite long
- collar bone/upper chest on skates is quite short
- around adam's apple on skates is pretty standard

This is for higher level players, for some reason new/inexperienced players tend to keep their sticks way longer (many just never bother cutting them in the first place), but you won't find many guys at all (dmen or forwards) who play/played high level hockey that play with a stick higher than around chin height on skates. Some defensive dmen will use longer sticks, but if you want to develop good puck handling abilites, and a good shot, try a stick around adam's apple height on skates.

Also, re: tape wear in general, don't look at your tape wear after a game. In a game you're mostly skating around with 1 hand on the stick, there's going to be more heel wear even with the right lie. Go to a stick and puck session, constantly stick handle and shoot, and check out your tape wear after that. After a stick and puck the wear should be roughly mid blade.

I disagree with the poster who said "stand up." You don't want to hunch your back or anything like that, but you DO want a nice deep knee and ankle bend, skating with straight legs takes away from your speed, agility and balance. If anything, just try re-positioning your hands a bit so you keep the blade a bit closer to your body (this will be much easier to do with a shorter stick), but don't go standing up straight, keep a deep knee/ankle bend at all times. This should basically be your standard hockey stance:



Also note how Crosby/Sakic can easily pass their top hand in front of their body while stick handling. With a long stick your top hand gets trapped on your hip, and can't easily pass it in front of your body, which really limits what you can do with the puck. A shorter stick gives you much more freedom, if you can't stick handle like this, then your stick is too long.


Last edited by ponder: 01-09-2012 at 04:25 PM.
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01-09-2012, 04:56 PM
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hyster110
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he said he played d, so how tall are you, i use a stick that goes up to about my bottom lip on skates and i can stickhandle just fine. i am only 5"10

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01-09-2012, 05:56 PM
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Jarick
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It's a taller stick than average, so a lower lie than average would be needed to keep it flat on the ice. Honestly you have three options:

1. get a lower lie (custom)
2. cut the stick
3. close up the blade by turning your top hand over

Of course the latter is going to mess up your mechanics, but you can adjust. I've been using a 6 lie for a while and while standing with one hand on the stick the toe's in the air, but while playing and shooting it's fine, because I closed it up and adjusted.

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01-09-2012, 06:16 PM
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Man Bear Pig
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The rule of thumb I always used was around nose level for playing D and around chin level for forward. Pretty straight forward.

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01-09-2012, 09:18 PM
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r3cc0s
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most people play with a 5-5.5... 4 deg lies aren't easy to find

these days, people play with a longer stick... specificially kids coming up thoughthe midget/JR systems

I grew up playing a very short stick, cutting the end off when the stick is flat on the ice, when standing straight (on skates) and arms relaxed.

if you go by this rule, and you have an upright lie (i.e. 5.5 or 6) you'll have a pretty short stick, but your hands will be in the "proper" stickhandling position (i.e. both hands right in front with a 12" seperation)

when you get used to this, it promotes a better skating position... wider stance with a deep knee bend and you'll find yourself able to make gains easier for puck handling, pass recieving though better feel and control...

It's actually better to start with a shorter stick, then move up... but these days its much more costly to do that

I actually just put a plug in 2 of my sticks, and added maybe an inch and a 1/2 to the length... but even at that... it takes some time to get used to.

The only... and I mean only, reason why I did this, was to get better flex out of my stick for snap shots and the wood plug also helped balanced my previously blade heavy sticks (as they were cut down so much)


I also "can" use a long stick (even one up to my eyebrows), and much like most kids who play with a longer stick, you have to play with a wider seperation of their hands... the bottom hand is where it should be, where as the top hand may not quite chicken wing, but is up higher than what traditionally was taught...
You can definately get used to this... alot of pro's play a long stick (such a Ryan Clowe), but I still think that the best stick handlers use a short stick (again like collarbone short stick)

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01-09-2012, 11:16 PM
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ArrogantOwl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r3cc0s View Post
You can definately get used to this... alot of pro's play a long stick (such a Ryan Clowe), but I still think that the best stick handlers use a short stick (again like collarbone short stick)
Datsuyk actually uses a relatively long stick.

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01-09-2012, 11:30 PM
  #10
LatvianTwist
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Weird. I play with a stick up over my eyes and I've never had a stick-handling/passing issue at all.

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01-09-2012, 11:31 PM
  #11
hyster110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r3cc0s View Post
most people play with a 5-5.5... 4 deg lies aren't easy to find

these days, people play with a longer stick... specificially kids coming up thoughthe midget/JR systems

I grew up playing a very short stick, cutting the end off when the stick is flat on the ice, when standing straight (on skates) and arms relaxed.

if you go by this rule, and you have an upright lie (i.e. 5.5 or 6) you'll have a pretty short stick, but your hands will be in the "proper" stickhandling position (i.e. both hands right in front with a 12" seperation)

when you get used to this, it promotes a better skating position... wider stance with a deep knee bend and you'll find yourself able to make gains easier for puck handling, pass recieving though better feel and control...

It's actually better to start with a shorter stick, then move up... but these days its much more costly to do that

I actually just put a plug in 2 of my sticks, and added maybe an inch and a 1/2 to the length... but even at that... it takes some time to get used to.

The only... and I mean only, reason why I did this, was to get better flex out of my stick for snap shots and the wood plug also helped balanced my previously blade heavy sticks (as they were cut down so much)


I also "can" use a long stick (even one up to my eyebrows), and much like most kids who play with a longer stick, you have to play with a wider seperation of their hands... the bottom hand is where it should be, where as the top hand may not quite chicken wing, but is up higher than what traditionally was taught...
You can definately get used to this... alot of pro's play a long stick (such a Ryan Clowe), but I still think that the best stick handlers use a short stick (again like collarbone short stick)


my guess is he is using a warrior, those are the only sticks who mention 4 lie, which is basically a 5 lie for any other stick.

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01-10-2012, 09:12 AM
  #12
LarryO
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If you want a real 4 lie, BASE makes them in almost all of their patterns. I was in a similar situation though I cut my stick just below the chin. You might also want to practise receiving passes nearer to the heel of the stick, or consciously raise the butt end of your stick when you receive a pass so the blade lies flatter on the ice.

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01-11-2012, 02:25 PM
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nyk16
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Many thanks to all for their comments/suggestions. There is so much here I hadn't considered - very informative.

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01-11-2012, 03:41 PM
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hyster110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyk16 View Post
Many thanks to all for their comments/suggestions. There is so much here I hadn't considered - very informative.
also take into account the curve when cutting your sticks, for example, if you use a sakic lets say with the rounded bottom, and you switch to a getzlaf, the square toe on the getz will make the blade a bit longer, so when cutting your sticks (if you use different or switch curves) measure from the heel of each

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10-21-2013, 05:18 PM
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Ok I know this is an old thread, and nyk16 has probably already bought his stick and maybe a few more since he posted. I find HFBoards to be quite interesting and just registered so I thought Id chime in.

The more upright you skate (back on your heels), the LESS of a lie you need ie: a stick shaped like a capital "L" would have a lower lie - a stick with a higher lie " _/ "is for skaters who skate with their knees bent, & back hunched down low to the ice.

So a tall stay at home d man would want a lower lie - a 4 or 5 max.

A faster forward (winger) might want a stick with a large lie - say a 6 _/ verses an upright lower lie L shape. That way when skating with knees bent and back hunched for explosive speed would want to have the blade flat on the ice to receive passes and get a shot away.

A center man may want a 5 so as to be able to stick handle in traffic, closer to the body.

A big thing to keep in mind besides wearing out the heel of your stick, is that when you are fighting for the puck close to your skates, or trying to receive a pass close to your skates, if you have a 6 _/ vs a 4 upright L shape, you will tend to pull your stick in, and have mostly toe on the ice rather than full blade.

The stick companies did away with the numbering system about 20 years ago in favor of professional endorsement patterns that didn't make a lot of sense. its good to see that the lie system is coming back at least with a few companies.

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10-21-2013, 06:25 PM
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Nope, some companies are taking away lie numbers because consumers are getting confused. Every brand measures it differently. You'd have the exact same curve (clone) like the P92/Sakic/Hall/P87A/RNH/W03 etc. but Warrior would label theirs a lie 5 with a 4 also available, Easton would label theirs a 5.5, Bauer a 6 etc. And then scale down for JR sticks.

Everyone should completely do away with numbers and just focus on optimizing stick length and eyeballing how the blade sits when on skates and in an athletic position.

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10-21-2013, 06:32 PM
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Sparkey
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Except stick length is a different measure. Longer stick = harder shot and easier to poke/sweep check, but you give up stick handling ability & vice versa.

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10-21-2013, 06:37 PM
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AIREAYE
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See, that's part of the problem. While stick length has its own set of attributions to play, too many people separate it from consideration when trying to address lie issues.

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10-21-2013, 11:47 PM
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LarryO
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BTW, Sparkey, you have the lie values reversed. A higher lie value like a 6 will be more upright than a lower lie value like a 4.

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10-22-2013, 01:36 AM
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hockeyisforeveryone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AIREAYE View Post
See, that's part of the problem. While stick length has its own set of attributions to play, too many people separate it from consideration when trying to address lie issues.
That is deep. I'm sure each curve, manufacturer, and stick is unique you can't grab a 200$ carbon fiber stick and just cut it off where you think you're used to.

Players like Jarick have posted a good amount about their experience with different brands, curves, lengths, etc. It takes time (like season to season) to find what is truly preferable for your style of game.

I've used nothing but a Zetterberg curve for 4 years and that alone has been a challenge to find the right length! I started shorter then went longer, cut back a 1/2 inch and then a full inch on my new 75 flex ST. My wear pattern is exactly on the bottom of the rocker but who knows I may take another 1' off to experiment.

It's not the end of the world to cut off too much and later add in a plug to play with. It's worth it to more quickly find what feels right for you.

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10-22-2013, 11:08 AM
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Sparkey
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oops! I do have them reversed... duh.
Here is a good video explaining lie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-etQAgIs48

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10-22-2013, 11:22 AM
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AIREAYE
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And once more, that video, while explaining the basics, is missing some key points (which I get, since it can confuse their customers).

- Warrior WAS the ONLY major company offering 3 marked lies in their SR sticks. 4 in Fedorov/Savard/Burrows as well as a special Draper 4 for example, 5 in Draper/Kopitar for example and a special lie 6 in Draper. They won't be marking their lies going forward. Recent Warrior sticks only had lie 4s and 5s marked, no more 6s. They were losing sales to misinformed consumers who thought all Warrior lies were LOWER.
- Everyone else had DIFFERENT measurements (Warrior Draper = Bauer P92= Easton P3, different lie markings)
- No mention of stick length
- No mention of down-scaling for JR sticks

Think about it, how can one accurately compare a 'lie 5' when choosing between brands when they're all different?

Also, the ultimate objective in picking the right lie is getting the blade to sit flatter on the ice. Getting the right length is more of a factor than blindly throwing out lie numbers.

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10-22-2013, 12:46 PM
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Jarick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkey View Post
Ok I know this is an old thread, and nyk16 has probably already bought his stick and maybe a few more since he posted. I find HFBoards to be quite interesting and just registered so I thought Id chime in.

The more upright you skate (back on your heels), the LESS of a lie you need ie: a stick shaped like a capital "L" would have a lower lie - a stick with a higher lie " _/ "is for skaters who skate with their knees bent, & back hunched down low to the ice.
Welcome!

You have the lie values mixed up...higher lie is more vertical and lower like is more horizontal.

Usually you will want a higher lie if you favor a shorter stick, because the blade will be closer to the body and you need a more upright angle to keep the blade flat on the ice. With a longer stick, you can use a lower lie as the blade will be further away from the body.

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10-23-2013, 02:49 PM
  #24
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cut the stick to my mouth when not on skates.

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02-04-2014, 09:23 PM
  #25
ted diamonte
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Originally Posted by LarryO View Post
BTW, Sparkey, you have the lie values reversed. A higher lie value like a 6 will be more upright than a lower lie value like a 4.
ok I just got off phone with guy at CCM in charge of custom sticks. I told him my toe was up in air. He said go from 5 to 6.5 lie. Further, he said that they( RBZ sticks) are hand made so you can compare them and perhaps get the lie you want. I guess the RBZ does not come with different lies. Any comments?

My thought is that if you stand there and toe is in air you've got a problem that only gets worse in a lower hockey position. But I don't see stick companies caring about issue at all?


Last edited by ted diamonte: 02-04-2014 at 09:36 PM.
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