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The reemergence of Brandon Dubinsky

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Old
01-09-2012, 03:00 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
Now that we have a team that could make some noise in the playoffs, I'm eager to see how Dubi will perform in the postseason. Despite the offensive woes that our team has had in the playoffs in recent years, Dubinsky has put up a respectable 15 points in 22 playoff games. He embraces the physicality that is necessary to endure the playoff grind and that sort of play will be extremely useful if this team is to make a deep run.
This is a great point. 15 pts in 22 PO games on some truly awful offensive teams for a player who is only 25 is damn, damn good. Let's see what he can do when the cast is much better and when the other teams' D have to deal with multiple top lines.

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01-09-2012, 03:03 PM
  #27
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He was playing well all season, but just not to the standards of his 4 mill per contract.

I've been a pretty big Dubinsky critic, but he's playing much better right now and much improved.

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01-09-2012, 03:09 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
The team is reminding me of the Devils of the 90's. Players all come up together and play together. The result is a team that is much better than the sum of it's parts.
Good observation, was thinking the same watching this team take shape the last two seasons.

From the net on out

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01-09-2012, 03:11 PM
  #29
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He wasn't scoring goals, but his value has always been as a two-way guy, capable of matching up to superstars and being gritty enough to get involved with Crosby or Ovechkin while still doing his thing. He's a fan favorite for that, but he's really a 40-60 point guy who people expect more out of because he can earn a lot of time and attention.

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01-09-2012, 03:25 PM
  #30
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Dubinsky = CORE PLAYER

He had a rough start to the season.

No more, no less.

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01-09-2012, 03:34 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by RL605 View Post
He was playing well all season, but just not to the standards of his 4 mill per contract.

I've been a pretty big Dubinsky critic, but he's playing much better right now and much improved.
The problem is way too many critics are only capable of using the formula of points = contract value all while simultaneously using small sample sizes to justify their criticism.

The guy was our best offensive producer last season, and he did that while being a guy who isn't just an offensive guy who only produces points.

This season he just couldn't get an early goal to get him going. Then he got shoved down with Boyle and Prust. Not really a situation conducive for increasing your offense.

If Dubi scores 10 goals this year and continues doing everything else he is doing and this team makes a deep run in the playoffs, why do people care about his contract? I'll never understand this. All that matters is fitting your roster under the salary cap. How you do that isn't relevant and once it's done all that matters is winning. If the team wins, who cares if player X makes $2 million and player Y makes $4. There is nothing so far in Dubi's career that shows us that he won't be worth his contract over the next four years. We were freaking 20 and 30 games into this contract one year removed from him posting 25 goals and 54 points or whatever it was. That's without looking at everything else he brings into this team. It's just a joke.

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01-09-2012, 03:54 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Some of the same people who would trade Dubinsky have always been out to move Girardi too. Where would the team be today if that would have happened? Dubinsky is our power forward--he may not be the best power forward in the league but he is a pretty good one. I consider him an essential player to the teams success. Rangers did fine when he wasn't producing goals early on--now that he's starting to score--maybe they'll do even better.
Or, just as importantly, Dubinsky is getting going right at a time that Anisimov is struggling a little bit offensively. Both of them are streaky players, though. If Dubinsky can pick up a little offensive slack, then you can say the same thing about other players from earlier in the season. This is the great thing about depth. A deep team can afford to have their best LW slumping in the goal-scoring department, but still playing well otherwise, and continue to be successful. A shallow team, like our teams of the past, cannot.

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If Dubi scores 10 goals this year and continues doing everything else he is doing and this team makes a deep run in the playoffs, why do people care about his contract? I'll never understand this. All that matters is fitting your roster under the salary cap. How you do that isn't relevant and once it's done all that matters is winning. If the team wins, who cares if player X makes $2 million and player Y makes $4..
Well, would ya look at that? We completely agree on something. I've been saying for years that I barely think about the salary cap during the season, as far as that current season is concerned.

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01-09-2012, 04:13 PM
  #33
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If Dubi scores 10 goals this year and continues doing everything else he is doing and this team makes a deep run in the playoffs, why do people care about his contract? I'll never understand this. All that matters is fitting your roster under the salary cap. How you do that isn't relevant and once it's done all that matters is winning. If the team wins, who cares if player X makes $2 million and player Y makes $4. There is nothing so far in Dubi's career that shows us that he won't be worth his contract over the next four years. We were freaking 20 and 30 games into this contract one year removed from him posting 25 goals and 54 points or whatever it was. That's without looking at everything else he brings into this team. It's just a joke.
Well put. I've often wondered why this is so hard to grasp. People can choose to be blind to things like chemistry. In the real world, moving players around and hoping that chemistry remains is very elusive. The value of having a group that stays together, learns and grows together can not be overstated but is often under valued.

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01-09-2012, 04:27 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by ruckus View Post
The problem is way too many critics are only capable of using the formula of points = contract value all while simultaneously using small sample sizes to justify their criticism.

The guy was our best offensive producer last season, and he did that while being a guy who isn't just an offensive guy who only produces points.

This season he just couldn't get an early goal to get him going. Then he got shoved down with Boyle and Prust. Not really a situation conducive for increasing your offense.

If Dubi scores 10 goals this year and continues doing everything else he is doing and this team makes a deep run in the playoffs, why do people care about his contract? I'll never understand this. All that matters is fitting your roster under the salary cap. How you do that isn't relevant and once it's done all that matters is winning. If the team wins, who cares if player X makes $2 million and player Y makes $4. There is nothing so far in Dubi's career that shows us that he won't be worth his contract over the next four years. We were freaking 20 and 30 games into this contract one year removed from him posting 25 goals and 54 points or whatever it was. That's without looking at everything else he brings into this team. It's just a joke.
Im one of Dubinsky's biggest fans and had no problem with him being demoted to the 3rd line, or being questioned from the fanbase on his lack of offensive production in accordance to his contract. The ones that wanted to ship him out, I agree, are idiots.

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01-09-2012, 05:26 PM
  #35
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When people say that he was doing everything right in the beginning of the season, and by sheer bad luck he wasn't scoring, they are wrong. The Dubinsky that we've seen over the past few weeks is not the same Dubinsky we saw earlier in the year. Now Dubinsky is doing what he does best, he's taking the puck to the net and good things are happening. I applaud him for that. But I'm not going to pretend like it was just a matter of time for him. He needed to make the decision to play like this and I'm glad he has.

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01-09-2012, 05:58 PM
  #36
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I love that when he fell into a scoring rut, Torts took him and said "**** it, focus on defense. We can afford to have you not scoring, but we can't afford to have you weak on the other side of the puck". Even when in a massive slump, he managed to contribute, and be useful to the team.

Of course, everybody only focuses on scoring, so this got over looked.

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01-09-2012, 08:10 PM
  #37
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Dubi is a hell of a two way player ,does a log I things consistently well such as HIT,carry the puck with speed up the ice , cycle , fight occasionally , one thing he consistently dies poorly is SHOOT THE PUCK . he doesnt have a pure scoters shot . It's funny when he puts it on net and hits the top corner , unfortunately he can't do this consistently . If Dubi could shoot the puck better more accurately he'd be an all star fo sure . Glad to see him crashing the net again and playing between the circles not just kicking it around behind the net .

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01-09-2012, 08:20 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
I love that when he fell into a scoring rut, Torts took him and said "**** it, focus on defense. We can afford to have you not scoring, but we can't afford to have you weak on the other side of the puck". Even when in a massive slump, he managed to contribute, and be useful to the team.

Of course, everybody only focuses on scoring, so this got over looked.
If he became a 4 million dollar third liner he wouldn't be a very good player.

50 point Dubi with the whole package is worth the contract.

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01-09-2012, 08:24 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by ruckus View Post
The problem is way too many critics are only capable of using the formula of points = contract value all while simultaneously using small sample sizes to justify their criticism.

The guy was our best offensive producer last season, and he did that while being a guy who isn't just an offensive guy who only produces points.

This season he just couldn't get an early goal to get him going. Then he got shoved down with Boyle and Prust. Not really a situation conducive for increasing your offense.

If Dubi scores 10 goals this year and continues doing everything else he is doing and this team makes a deep run in the playoffs, why do people care about his contract? I'll never understand this. All that matters is fitting your roster under the salary cap. How you do that isn't relevant and once it's done all that matters is winning. If the team wins, who cares if player X makes $2 million and player Y makes $4. There is nothing so far in Dubi's career that shows us that he won't be worth his contract over the next four years. We were freaking 20 and 30 games into this contract one year removed from him posting 25 goals and 54 points or whatever it was. That's without looking at everything else he brings into this team. It's just a joke.
Except we paid him 4 mill to be his 50-60 point potential like many think he is.

Like Blueshirtblitz said above, a 50 pt Dubi along with his solid defensive/PK effort is worth the contract. If Dubi isn't scoring and just doing that, he's just a 3rd line grinder, someone we could have found for about half the amount. Cap space means everything especially in a hard cap sport. Again, I am happy with how Dubinsky has played lately, though.

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01-09-2012, 08:39 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
If he became a 4 million dollar third liner he wouldn't be a very good player.

50 point Dubi with the whole package is worth the contract.
I agree that he wasn't playing up to his contract, but it's admirable that he handled it by maximizing the positives of his game. If he stayed that way all season, it'd be a problem, but it looks like he's all better, so as far as slumps go, his went about as well as one can go.

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01-09-2012, 09:26 PM
  #41
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The team is reminding me of the Devils of the 90's. Players all come up together and play together. The result is a team that is much better than the sum of it's parts.
Actually I was thinking the same thing today TB. Divided on the back of an envelope players who came up through the system and those who came here via trade or as professional free agents.

Through the system Lundqvist (2000 draft), Callahan, Dubinsky (2004 draft) Staal, Sauer (2005 draft) Anisimov (2006 draft) Girardi (first pro contract 2006-free agent) Hagelin (2007 draft) Del Zotto, Stepan (2008 draft). All core players with maybe the exception of Hagelin who hasn't been around too long.

Additionally McDonagh (2007 draft by Montreal) and Erixon (2009 draft by Calgary) have only played as pros in the Rangers organization.

That is a lot of in house development and vastly different from the Rangers approach 10 years ago.

Another addition--I expect Kreider to be a Ranger some time next year if not right out of training camp. Miller and McIlrath should also be key players some day. There are a few others who might as well.

Watching these players develop has been a lot of fun and the idea of trading two or three of them for some underachieving young stud like Bobby Ryan is not the way to go. These guys have grown up together. They play for each other. They adopt other young players onto the team like Prust, Boyle etc. We have Richards and Gaborik to lead the offense and these guys proving they'll play their hearts out for each other. It's a good way to go.

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01-09-2012, 10:11 PM
  #42
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honestly, with the way the team is playing, don't touch a single thing. the players i'd like to see on our team will cost way too much and potentially disrupt the team too much. I'm worried about RFAs next summer. If we can get a Zach Parise to sign, sweet, but I also look forward to Mr Kreider.

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01-09-2012, 11:26 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
If he became a 4 million dollar third liner he wouldn't be a very good player.

50 point Dubi with the whole package is worth the contract.
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Originally Posted by RL605 View Post
Except we paid him 4 mill to be his 50-60 point potential like many think he is.

Like Blueshirtblitz said above, a 50 pt Dubi along with his solid defensive/PK effort is worth the contract. If Dubi isn't scoring and just doing that, he's just a 3rd line grinder, someone we could have found for about half the amount. Cap space means everything especially in a hard cap sport. Again, I am happy with how Dubinsky has played lately, though.

He's got 21 points and he's been pretty down offensively. If he finished with 40+ year and shows up in the playoffs and this team wins, who cares? I still think he lives up to the contract. It's a four year deal. Not a 35 game deal. He's what, 25 years old? All the knocking him and always wanting to trade him stuff is insane.

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01-09-2012, 11:49 PM
  #44
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He's got 21 points and he's been pretty down offensively. If he finished with 40+ year and shows up in the playoffs and this team wins, who cares? I still think he lives up to the contract. It's a four year deal. Not a 35 game deal. He's what, 25 years old? All the knocking him and always wanting to trade him stuff is insane.
Well i'm not saying he's not living up to it, but if he didn't right the ship it would've been a very bad start to the 4 years. I expected him to get back on track, but during the stretch where we lost, what, 4 1-2 goal games in the span of 6 games it would've been fantastic to have the real Dubi back.

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01-10-2012, 12:24 AM
  #45
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What's interesting to me is that despite his scoring issues early this season he really wasn't playing awful. Now like most things on this board, and especially now that things are going well, it's all about giving Torts credit for even something like this. I said from the beginning that there was never any reason for Dubi to not to stay on the line with Richards and Callahan. Despite his lack of offensive production he was playing well enough to stay on that line and be given a chance to break through. Now what I know will happen is everyone will credit Tortorella for demoting him and making him work his way back, but what's interesting is that even though it's clear that Dubinsky and him have a decent relationship (and Dubi himself is going the right thing and trying to credit Tortorella), his quotes recently actually say the opposite. I only bring it up because it speaks to my point that I was trying to make early in the year. Dubi talked about not having any confidence issues last year because he got off to a hot start and because of that continued to play big minutes every game. It's easy to be confident when you're always on the ice and being given a chance to contribute. This season he was playing fine, just not finding the back of the net. Instead of allowing him to ride it out with Richards and Callhan, two players who would help get him out of an offensive rut, Dubinsky was demoted and paired with linemates who weren't going to help him offensively. This only increases the lack of confidence because you're taking a player whose biggest issue was finding the back of the net, and now putting him with guys who decrease his chances of that even further. Dubinsky needs to be with Callahan. They just work together. They always have. With Richards in the middle it's going to be fine. He's had patience with Step and Arty and Gabby despite their cold streak. He didn't do the same with Dubinsky when he struggled.

It's one of the reasons I always advocate for rolling four lines or at least giving every one semi-credible ice time. Players rely on their confidence and when your coach shows none in you it's very difficult. It's probably why Torts likes guys like Mitchell and Rupp so much.
1. Dubi was playing bad away from the puck when Feds was on the Richards line.

2. When he got better Hags was doing more offensively.

3. Dubi was put on the Richards line
a. His continued work away from the puck which included moving his feet
b. Hags regressed offensively which is expected of a rookie.

If Dubi doesn't move his feet he is useless. When he moves his feet he is a bull...(See last game Rangers played in FL.) That's the Dubi that can help this team taste Stanley Pie. Not saying his confidence isn't key, but when he started moving his feet, he played better and his confidence grew.

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01-10-2012, 12:51 AM
  #46
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Except we paid him 4 mill to be his 50-60 point potential like many think he is.

Like Blueshirtblitz said above, a 50 pt Dubi along with his solid defensive/PK effort is worth the contract. If Dubi isn't scoring and just doing that, he's just a 3rd line grinder, someone we could have found for about half the amount. Cap space means everything especially in a hard cap sport. Again, I am happy with how Dubinsky has played lately, though.
I see that kind of thinking and I just have to shake my head. I find it hard to believe that's all people saw in Dubi the first 25 games or so. Don't get me wrong it was easy to see we were dealing with a guy that had problems in his game and in his head. But I also saw a guy that could make game winning plays, like the game in Calgary, create space for team mates, bang, battle and play great D. The important thing was that we knew he had much more in him and had proven it in the past. It was only a matter of time before he had his game back to where it needed to be.

The idea that he's easily replaceable at half the price just mystifies the hell out of me in all sincere honesty.

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01-10-2012, 01:42 AM
  #47
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I see that kind of thinking and I just have to shake my head. I find it hard to believe that's all people saw in Dubi the first 25 games or so. Don't get me wrong it was easy to see we were dealing with a guy that had problems in his game and in his head. But I also saw a guy that could make game winning plays, like the game in Calgary, create space for team mates, bang, battle and play great D. The important thing was that we knew he had much more in him and had proven it in the past. It was only a matter of time before he had his game back to where it needed to be.

The idea that he's easily replaceable at half the price just mystifies the hell out of me in all sincere honesty.
Hence, a grinder.

Let's not overrate Dubi here. I love him, great team player, don't want to trade him, but let's not act like he's irreplaceable.

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01-10-2012, 09:06 AM
  #48
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We have Richards and Gaborik to lead the offense and these guys proving they'll play their hearts out for each other. It's a good way to go.
It is. Like those Devils teams, defenseman out of the system just fit in, when slotted. Like thsoe Devils teams, suddenly prospects that are brought in (Hagelin) contribute. And, like those teams, the "right" prospect decision is made as opposed to the wrong one. With Jessiman and Lee Fardleau still on the mind, it is nice to see Hagelin, Steppan and even a Bickel. Sign the right depth, spot the right young depth and bring in the "right' UFA. Richards, unlike Holik or Bure or Jagr or Lindros or Carter or........(insert name), was the "right" signing and only augumented what was already here.

When the core grows up together and plays together for so long, they play for each other and defend each other.

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01-10-2012, 09:42 AM
  #49
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Kudos to Dubinsky for doing things the right way and playing himself back into the top six. He's been great the last few games. Now, let's see if he can keep it up for the rest of the year and the playoffs.

I'll fully admit to being very critical of Dubinsky this year, and I reserve the right to be skeptical of his consistency until he proves otherwise. I'm not even referring to his point production. I'm talking about being a physical presence on the ice every single shift. That's when he's at his best, and he doesn't bring it to the table night after night.

He's got the potential to be a 30-30 power-forward, and the only thing getting in his way is himself. The issue with Dubinsky has always been the same. When he's in a scoring role, he thinks he's a skill player instead of a banger. He'll get bumped down, rediscover his game, and then he'll show flashes of what he could become once his ice time is increased again.

I certainly don't want that to be misconstrued as me "hating" or that I want him to fail in any way, shape or form, but let's be honest here; if he was a FA signing at the contract he got, and had the start that he did, people would be going bonkers. You can't turn a blind eye to the money he got just because he's a home grown player. PKing, faceoffs, and 40 points does not equate to $4.2M per year. I don't care who drafted you. Now, the type of player Dubinsky could, and should be? $4.2M per year is a steal.

Anyone who thinks those Bobby Ryan rumors didn't light a fire under Dubinsky's ass is kidding themselves.

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01-10-2012, 09:54 AM
  #50
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Well, would ya look at that? We completely agree on something. I've been saying for years that I barely think about the salary cap during the season, as far as that current season is concerned.
I understand when people are upset with a Redden type contract or a Drury of last year. I can get it. But even last year the team was playing well at times with Drury out of the lineup. Yes, we all understand that money spent on one player means less money for another, but the one thing that is never taken into consideration by people is whether or not that money would be spent effectively. When people flip out about a contract they just assume whoever else the money would have gone to would have improved the team. They don't think about the fact that it could be a Kotalik or Frolov.


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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Im one of Dubinsky's biggest fans and had no problem with him being demoted to the 3rd line, or being questioned from the fanbase on his lack of offensive production in accordance to his contract. The ones that wanted to ship him out, I agree, are idiots.
I think people just have this desire to always want to make trades and changes. They understand he is a valuable trade chip and since people dislike him the most for whatever reason he's lumped in almost every trade offer. It's just dumb. More than just winning, I want to win with the players who we developed and grew with. There's something more satisfying about that.


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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
If he became a 4 million dollar third liner he wouldn't be a very good player.

50 point Dubi with the whole package is worth the contract.
Well i'm not saying he's not living up to it, but if he didn't right the ship it would've been a very bad start to the 4 years. I expected him to get back on track, but during the stretch where we lost, what, 4 1-2 goal games in the span of 6 games it would've been fantastic to have the real Dubi back.[/QUOTE]

But that's the thing. This jumping to conclusions. What has Dubi done to show that he's just a third line player? He's gotten better each year like almost all of our young players. He's just 25 years old. Using such a small sample size at the beginning of the year to determine that we shouldn't have signed him to that contract and should try and move him (not saying you said that but just that general idea from around here) is crazy to me. Like I said earlier, he got off to a slow start offensively. It wasn't helped when he got paired with Boyle and Prust. That's not the way to break out as an offensive player. He's still got 21 points. He could end up right where he was last year after a terrible start.

Yes it would've been great but you're talking about time specific goals now. He could have 20 goals right now and no one would care about that...even if they all came when we already had the lead.

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Originally Posted by BKBlackRanger View Post
1. Dubi was playing bad away from the puck when Feds was on the Richards line.

2. When he got better Hags was doing more offensively.

3. Dubi was put on the Richards line
a. His continued work away from the puck which included moving his feet
b. Hags regressed offensively which is expected of a rookie.

If Dubi doesn't move his feet he is useless. When he moves his feet he is a bull...(See last game Rangers played in FL.) That's the Dubi that can help this team taste Stanley Pie. Not saying his confidence isn't key, but when he started moving his feet, he played better and his confidence grew.
1. I don't think I'd say he was playing bad but yes, he was in a big confidence slump early on.
2. I understand your point but I didn't see any reason at the time to not leave Dubinsky on that line. It didn't make sense to me.
3. I don't think I agree that Dubinsky is useless if he doesn't move his feet. We know he can be the best player on the ice when he does. When he doesn't he's a good player who is more important on the defensive side of the puck.

I think it's clear his confidence is directly tied to moving his feet. When he's not confident he's playing tentative and on his heels. When he's confident he's assertive and trusts his ability to make things happen.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RL605 View Post
Hence, a grinder.

Let's not overrate Dubi here. I love him, great team player, don't want to trade him, but let's not act like he's irreplaceable.
Let's not underrate him. How many 50+ point players are out there that can do what Dubinsky does all around? The mentality that you have here seems to be shared by those who have no problem shipping him out. You guys can keep dreaming about trading for players like Bobby Ryan, but let's be real here...you better get someone like that in return because otherwise Dubinsky is going to be the best player in the deal. Let's not act like he is replaceable.

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