HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Buffalo Sabres
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Name 8 players on the Sabres you would like to build the team around

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-08-2012, 06:40 PM
  #51
ShaPow
Registered User
 
ShaPow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 202
vCash: 500
1) Vanek
2) Myers
3) McNabb
4) Regehr
5) Ehrhoff
6) Kassian
7) Gerbe
8) Adam

ShaPow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2012, 07:21 PM
  #52
puckish66
Registered User
 
puckish66's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: Vanuatu
Posts: 1,046
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luceni View Post
lol at the guy who wants to build around Grags. Just lol.

I bet you felt that way in April too.

puckish66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2012, 07:42 PM
  #53
thefifagod
I'm The Survivor
 
thefifagod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,043
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by puckish66 View Post
I bet you felt that way in April too.
Even in the playoffs when he was at his best, he was a third pairing PPQB. That has always been his ceiling. You don't build around those players.

I'm abstaining from a list because I don't have any untouchables (although Myers, Vanek, McNabb are virtually untouchable).

thefifagod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2012, 07:45 PM
  #54
Zip15
Registered User
 
Zip15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 17,298
vCash: 500
A few people have Vanek in their eight, but not Pominville. Why? Do you want TV to return to being the guy who averaged around 60 pts/season for three consecutive years while not playing with Pominville? Or are we still under the illusion (delusion?) that Vanek is only aiding Pommer but the inverse isn't true, and Vanek would perform at this level no matter who was on his line (except for Derek Roy Line Murderer, naturally)?

Zip15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2012, 07:46 PM
  #55
sabres19892
Registered User
 
sabres19892's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 213
vCash: 500
Roy
Stafford
Gragnani
Miller
Gaustad
Kaleta
Leino
Weber

That would be a solid core.

sabres19892 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2012, 07:49 PM
  #56
Better Call Saul
Registered User
 
Better Call Saul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 5,379
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by puckish66 View Post
I bet you felt that way in April too.
It's your own problem that you bought into the guy based on a few nice playoff games. He was never going to be more than a sixth or seventh defenseman in the NHL.

Better Call Saul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2012, 08:04 PM
  #57
Zip15
Registered User
 
Zip15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 17,298
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabres19892 View Post
Roy
Stafford
Gragnani
Miller
Gaustad
Kaleta
Leino
Weber

That would be a solid core.
You're late. Someone already made this joke.

Zip15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2012, 08:54 PM
  #58
jBuds
pretty damn valuable
 
jBuds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NYC Suburbs
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 27,182
vCash: 500
Vanek
Pominville
Myers
Ehrhoff
Regehr
McNabb
Sekera
Kassian

Then add centers. D is fine

jBuds is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2012, 09:32 PM
  #59
MagnumForce
Registered User
 
MagnumForce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Upstate New York
Country: United States
Posts: 2,049
vCash: 500
Updated Top 8

1) Myers 197 pts
2) Vanek 171 pts
3) Kassian 127 pts
4) Pominville 107 pts
5) McNabb 91 pts
6) Adam 67 pts
7) Ehrhoff 64 pts
8) Armia 39 pts

9) Sekera 38 pts
10) Ennis 37 pts
11) Regehr 29 pts
12) Miller 27 pts
13) Gerbe 20 pts
14 Foligno 13 pts

MagnumForce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2012, 11:26 PM
  #60
jfb392
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,113
vCash: 500
I can only think of seven players to build around: Adam, Ehrhoff, Kassian, McNabb, Myers, Pominville, and Vanek.

You'll notice that all of the listed players are either top six forwards or top four defensemen.
I believe that a core should be seven forwards (two top lines and a third line center), four defensemen, and a goalie.
My reasoning behind this is that these are the players that are most important to the success of a team and are difficult to obtain on the market.
The other parts (third line wingers, fourth liners, bottom pairing defensemen, and backup goaltenders) are all available on the market every year.
Finding the right mix is tricky, but they are not as difficult to obtain as core pieces.

My core has four forwards and three defensemen, so there are still three forwards (all centers, who knew that was our weakness?), a defenseman, and a starting goalie missing.
It'd look like this on paper:
Vanek-x-Pominville
Adam-x-Kassian
x

Myers-McNabb
Ehrhoff-x

x

Reasoning for each of my selections:

Adam - I just don't see him as a center. He plays a straight line game like a winger and has a wicked shot, so I have him as a winger. He has a knack for scoring goals and has good offensive hockey sense. Obviously he's had his ups and downs, but he's a rookie. Going forward, I think he's a big bodied second line winger.

Ehrhoff - Sure, he's been a little disappointing thus far in his tenure as a Sabre, but he's a top four defenseman. He's very good offensively and capable defensively. As we know, he can play very big minutes when needed and as we will hopefully see, he's a dangerous weapon on the power play. Oh yeah, can't forget about that ten year contract either.

Kassian - Like Adam, I see him as a big bodied second line winger in the future. He is capable of scoring and brings some much needed toughness. I had some doubts after the past couple seasons, as he became a bit of an enigma at times, but he's transitioned well to the pros so far this season, so I'm optimistic that he'll be an important piece going forward.

McNabb - Make no mistake, I've always loved this kid, so this isn't just buying into hype after his recent play. He needs to continue to work on his mobility, but he is a complete defenseman. He's just capable of playing in any situation you put him in. I have him paired with Myers as our #2, but he could also be a #4.

Myers - Even though it seems like he's been here forever sometimes, he's very young for an NHL defenseman and is still maturing. He's capable of doing anything and excelling at it. Don't think there's much more explanation needed.

Pominville - I've been hot and cold on Pominville over the years, but he's been a good soldier for us. He's just consistent. The offense is there most of the time and when it's not, he's good defensively. Is he the incredibly dynamic scoring winger that some want him to be? Over the course of his career, no, but he's solid and that's just fine if he's surrounded by dynamic players. The unknown is when he will start to go downhill, as he is almost 30 now.

Vanek - He's a dynamic scoring winger for sure. He used to be an enigma at times, but he's taken that next step and has become pretty consistent. The offensive tools that he has are hard to find. He's not a big hitter, but he is tough as nails when it comes to going to the hard areas to score. Like Pominville, he's getting up there a bit in age, but I'm optimistic he'll keep up his play for a number of years.

As for some of my omissions:

Ennis - I like him, but I don't have a place for him in my core if Adam is the second line winger.

Enroth - There are probably some people here that feel that he'll be a starter in the NHL still, but sorry, I've never seen that. He has some flaws, including one that cannot be fixed by experience, practice, or tweaks to his game: he is incredibly small for a goalie. I think he's capable of being a solid backup, but that's not part of my core.

Gerbe - I've been one of his biggest fans since I was aware of him and didn't give up hope, even when he wasn't producing at the beginning of last season. His compete and work ethic are exactly what we need, but his size (smallest in the NHL) will hold him back. He's a third line winger in my books, which again, isn't part of my core.

Leino - I had high hopes for him also, but it just doesn't seem like he fits in our system. Maybe that changes if our coach changes. The four positions for wingers are filled in my core though, so he's either a third line winger or a waste of money. Hopefully it's the former.

Miller - Sorry, Miller fans. I don't like his salary or his attitude at times and it looks like his Olympic season was a bit misleading. He's obviously a starter in this league, but he's aging and I've lost a lot of faith in him. If he went back to his old style, he'd probably be much better. Remember when Neale would go on about how he was the quickest post to post goalie in the league? He doesn't have the opportunity to say that anymore because Miller is always outside of the crease being over-aggressive. Meanwhile, the puck is being tapped into the empty net.

Regehr - He's older and his style of play isn't kind to the body. I love what he brings to the table now, but I worry about his effectiveness long-term, so he wasn't included.

Roy - Historically, I haven't minded Roy. That's changed recently. His diving and whining is getting old and when he isn't burying his chances he's being incompetent defensively. He'd probably be a good winger if we had other options in the middle because of his good shot and style of game, but that's not an option right now.

Sekera - Just like a bunch of other players omitted, I like him. Is he a top four defenseman long-term? I don't know. He's close in my mind, but I just couldn't add him yet.

Stafford - He's always bothered me because he seems to lack something that makes him a player instead of a pretender. Now that we've established that he's a scoring forward rather than a power forward, his lack of scoring is unacceptable. He's 26 and has broken 50 points once.

And our most valuable tradeable pieces, in order: Roy, Ennis, Miller, Stafford, and Armia.

Roy - He's a good second line center or a first line center if needed to be and on a good contract, I think he's our most valuable piece. Injuries would likely concern other teams, but there's a lot of upside.

Ennis - He's young, cheap, and full of upside. He has a little more than 100 NHL games under his belt though, so he's still a bit unproven.

Miller - The value of goalies is debatable and Miller hasn't lived up to his contract lately, but someone would probably roll the dice on him based on his play in the past and that fact that he's a recognizable name.

Stafford - Not living up to his new contract but someone may roll the dice based on pedigree (first rounder), his play last season, and the fact that he's likely entering his prime.

Armia - Probably not incredibly valuable alone, but very valuable in a package because he is a top prospect.

jfb392 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2012, 11:38 PM
  #61
ShaPow
Registered User
 
ShaPow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 202
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
A few people have Vanek in their eight, but not Pominville. Why? Do you want TV to return to being the guy who averaged around 60 pts/season for three consecutive years while not playing with Pominville? Or are we still under the illusion (delusion?) that Vanek is only aiding Pommer but the inverse isn't true, and Vanek would perform at this level no matter who was on his line (except for Derek Roy Line Murderer, naturally)?
My 8 were Vanek, Myers, Regehr, Ehrhoff, McNabb, Kassian, Adam, and Gerbe.

Pominville doesn't make Vanek what he is. He is the best compliment that Vanek has ever had on his line, but there is more at stake here. We're filling in around 8 players. Thomas Vanek will do what he does either way. He's now a veteran. He's a grown man. What you see is what you get with Vanek. He's become an excellent hockey player.

We're being asked to list 8 players. Why only 8? Who knows. But Pominville isn't going to be in everyone's top 8. We're being asked to build. He was the hardest for me to leave out. I've been a Pominville supporter for a long time. But you have to turn the page on certain players that you may not really want to move on without with this number. If it were 10 instead of 8, he definitely makes my cut.

Going with the young guys on offense like Adam and Kassian is more appealing to me for the future; and taking cap hits into consideration also swayed me.

Gerbe, to me, is just a winner. The most relentless hockey player I've ever seen. He wears a letter on my team as well. Every day of the week. He's an example. He may be the example. For everyone.

I like this current Sabres defensive makeup very much. This is a big reason why Ruff needs to go. The talent on the Sabres defense is excellent. When healthy, a top 4 of Regehr/Myers and McNabb/Ehrhoff is a terror, and will be a terror for a few more years, until Regehr slows down. A defense like that is a hell of a building block. All 4 of them stay.

Cap hit of my eight to build around: *24.735 million
*Including Myers cap hit of 5.5 per, beginning next year

Had I included Pominville instead of one of my other forwards not named Vanek? Way too high for 8 players to build around, and with this current Sabres roster, defense heavy is the way to go. No question.

ShaPow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2012, 11:58 AM
  #62
puckish66
Registered User
 
puckish66's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: Vanuatu
Posts: 1,046
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabres57 View Post
It's your own problem that you bought into the guy based on a few nice playoff games. He was never going to be more than a sixth or seventh defenseman in the NHL.
It would be funny to look at some of these discussions back over time.

What did you project for Brian Campbell when he was Gragnani's age? Circa 2003-2004.

puckish66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2012, 12:06 PM
  #63
LGB24
Registered User
 
LGB24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,602
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by puckish66 View Post
No. I'm comparing Gragnani's "second season" with Myers' second season. I see two young players who made a huge splash in their first seasons and then took a step back.

Someone mentioned Gragnani leading the Sabres in giveaways this season. Close, but he's behind Ehrhoff and Vanek.

Myers led the Sabres last season.

Just seems like a double standard.
Wow to be honest I thought you were kidding with Grags. A splash their first season? How can you call 7 playoff games and a handful of postseason games a season. He has some assists, but was average defensively at best, and will never be a top 4 D-man, dude doesn't even know how to body check. Guys like Grags are a dime a dozen. May as well just pick up MA Bergeron.
Also like an above poster mentioned you might wanna look at ice time compared to turnovers rather than just the stat itself

LGB24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2012, 12:57 PM
  #64
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 33,367
vCash: 500
Like Zip, I get a kick out those with Vanek but not Pommer in their group to build around. Vanek has never been anything special as a top line player until he played with Pommer. Of course that is always the fault of Roy, Ruff,etc. Many still stick to their preconceived notions of these two players. The two feed off of each other and make the other better. Yet for some it seems too painful to admit this fact. That the great and powerful Vanek may actually need a player like Pommer to play at this level So they fall back on the nonsense opinion that Vanek would be like this with anyone. Even though, as a first liner, he never has been like this with anyone else.


Last edited by joshjull: 01-09-2012 at 01:05 PM.
joshjull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2012, 01:20 PM
  #65
Jooce81
Registered User
 
Jooce81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Grand Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 2,737
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seanothan View Post
In no particular order;

Build Around:

1. Vanek
2. Pominville
3. Adam
4. Kassian
5. Myers
6. Ehrhoff
7. McNabb
8. Armia


Trade-able Players:

1. Roy
2. Stafford
3. Gaustad
4. Leopold
5. Sekera
agreed on both lists

Jooce81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2012, 02:22 PM
  #66
ShaPow
Registered User
 
ShaPow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 202
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Like Zip, I get a kick out those with Vanek but not Pommer in their group to build around. Vanek has never been anything special as a top line player until he played with Pommer. Of course that is always the fault of Roy, Ruff,etc. Many still stick to their preconceived notions of these two players. The two feed off of each other and make the other better. Yet for some it seems too painful to admit this fact. That the great and powerful Vanek may actually need a player like Pommer to play at this level So they fall back on the nonsense opinion that Vanek would be like this with anyone. Even though, as a first liner, he never has been like this with anyone else.
Are you telling everyone that the Sabres couldn't find another top line or 2nd line RW that has any chemistry with Vanek?

Has Vanek really never been a viable top line player until Pominville? Or did Vanek just grow up and become a grown man?

ShaPow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2012, 05:17 PM
  #67
skibum
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 405
vCash: 500
Oh, never mind.


Last edited by skibum: 01-09-2012 at 05:24 PM.
skibum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2012, 09:02 PM
  #68
sand1138man
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 575
vCash: 500
1) Myers, we really need him to have some support if we want him leading our defense
2)Mcnabb - Very good so far, looks like a very good up-and comer
3)Erhoff - is going to be goos as soon as he's comfortable here

4)Vanek - The only real consistant goal scorer on our team
5) Ennis - People forget how good he can be if he stays healthy
6) Gerbe- can score, is gritty
7)kassian- I think he can be great if we dont rush him into anything

8) Enroth, ONLY reason buffalo is even SLIGHTLY/ SOMEWHAT NEAR playoff contention (assuming they win the next 4of 5)

Honorable mention - Joel Armia (or however you spell it) might be a gem but dont know yet

TRADEABLE-
1)MILLER MILLER MILLER MILLER, even at his best he will never be a big game goalie, and sat his worst (like this year) he looks like Lalime, and byu the way Miller doesn't EVER play 3 good periods in a row, even against the worst teams in the league, he is scared, anxious hopes to get lucky instead of making his own luck.......this is not called a slump, it's called an ok goalie having an unsurprisingly SUB SUB-PAR season. I am convinced he will not lead us or any other team to the promise land.

2) LINDY RUFF (Fire not trade) broken record, ooly cares about level of compete and not amount of wins, has a team that makes TONS of mistakes and bad choices on the ice and that come from what he doesn't teach, changes lines way to often (even during single games) Put way too much faith in players that he feels are his friends (miller, roy, stafford) lets his own personal relationships get in the way of playing the goalie who is WAY more likely to get us points. He is TOTALLY satisyfied with a 4 to 1 loss as long as we played hard (even if it's against the worst team in the league) I could go on and on, but we really r=need a coach who is going to come in and ***** the situation and make the necessary changes to help us win, and the sad part is that lindy could be doing things that are winning us more games but he refuses to because he doesnt want to rock to boat. He rewards bad play by making assistant captains out of underachieveing players Roy, stafford, gaustad

3) Roy - had enough, always hurt, and doesn't help when hes in there
4) stafford - hope he has a hot 15 game streak like he did last GAME SO ANOTHER TEAM MIGHT BE SUCKERED INTO letting go a good consistant player for him

5)gragnani - never seen him hit anyone
6)webber- just another underachiever
7)Mccormic - if you can get ANYTHING for him, like a pick from the 8 round of the 2024 season, take it......DOES NOTHING FOR THE TEAM
8) Gaustad-


Players I would keep but not to build around)

1)pominville - good assist man, good locker room guy, need to be more vocal with refs during the game now that hes captain.
2) Ellis - good on the puck, has some subtle moves and good forchecking, needs to learn to finish or be put on a line with a finisher Tough 4th liner
3) kaleta - also tough 4th liner, and has some experience now and hopefully can use his skill set to draw penalties and not get suspensions, not incapable of scoring
4)Luke adam- not as thrilled about him as everyone else is, but I fell he could be put on a like with ellis and kaleta and he could be a finsher until he imroves more

Also a lot of the young guys unnamed here showed some promise, but i dont believe in annointing players after 3 games like a lot of poeple

Bottom line, Miller and ruff gone, and build a better team around vanek, myers and Enroth.

sand1138man is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:50 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.