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The reemergence of Brandon Dubinsky

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Old
01-10-2012, 10:18 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Kudos to Dubinsky for doing things the right way and playing himself back into the top six. He's been great the last few games. Now, let's see if he can keep it up for the rest of the year and the playoffs.

I'll fully admit to being very critical of Dubinsky this year, and I reserve the right to be skeptical of his consistency until he proves otherwise. I'm not even referring to his point production. I'm talking about being a physical presence on the ice every single shift. That's when he's at his best, and he doesn't bring it to the table night after night.

He's got the potential to be a 30-30 power-forward, and the only thing getting in his way is himself. The issue with Dubinsky has always been the same. When he's in a scoring role, he thinks he's a skill player instead of a banger. He'll get bumped down, rediscover his game, and then he'll show flashes of what he could become once his ice time is increased again.

I certainly don't want that to be misconstrued as me "hating" or that I want him to fail in any way, shape or form, but let's be honest here; if he was a FA signing at the contract he got, and had the start that he did, people would be going bonkers. You can't turn a blind eye to the money he got just because he's a home grown player. PKing, faceoffs, and 40 points does not equate to $4.2M per year. I don't care who drafted you. Now, the type of player Dubinsky could, and should be? $4.2M per year is a steal.

Anyone who thinks those Bobby Ryan rumors didn't light a fire under Dubinsky's ass is kidding themselves.
Not sure what you've been looking at but everyone was going bonkers. Hence shipping him out in every deal possible (something that makes zero sense given he just signed the deal and the fact that his value his at its lowest at that point..but why let logic effect trade rumors around here, right?) and constantly *****ing about the contract.

I really didn't see anyone giving him a break for being a home grown player. As mentioned several times, most people on here seem to have severed their tie with him when he missed wind sprints two summers ago. Apparently that was a slap to their face.

Again, if he ends up with 40 points in year one of this contract and plays strong down the stretch, in the post season, and this team goes deep, who cares? It's the first year of a four year contract.

If Gaborik scores around 40 this year and is around 30+ each of the two years after, was he not worth his contract because of last season? (I'm sure MSGtheplacetobe will give us a resounding YES on that one)

Once we're under the salary cap....who cares? It's about the team winning at that point.

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01-10-2012, 10:56 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by ruckus View Post
Not sure what you've been looking at but everyone was going bonkers. Hence shipping him out in every deal possible (something that makes zero sense given he just signed the deal and the fact that his value his at its lowest at that point..but why let logic effect trade rumors around here, right?) and constantly *****ing about the contract.
Everyone? Hardly. The same few people that constantly make ridiculous proposals whenever a player slumps? Sure. The fact of the matter is people were concerned, and they had the right to be. I understand your logic, but Dubinsky had been playing below average by his standards for the first half of the season. You get more money, you're subject to more scrutiny. That's the way it goes for ANY player in the NHL. Hell, that's how it goes in professional sports as a whole.

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I really didn't see anyone giving him a break for being a home grown player. As mentioned several times, most people on here seem to have severed their tie with him when he missed wind sprints two summers ago. Apparently that was a slap to their face.
Seems to me the only people still clinging to that series of events are the people who want to use it as "exhibit A" whenever someone says a bad thing about him. The common point being made was that Dubinsky had 2 goals as of Christmas. I don't care how you slice it, that's not acceptable. Even if he's contributing in other ways, we need him to score goals. That's a significant part of why we're paying him what we're paying him. I can't remember the last time I saw someone say, "Hey, remember when Dubi held out two years ago? Let's trade him."

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Again, if he ends up with 40 points in year one of this contract and plays strong down the stretch, in the post season, and this team goes deep, who cares? It's the first year of a four year contract.

If Gaborik scores around 40 this year and is around 30+ each of the two years after, was he not worth his contract because of last season? (I'm sure MSGtheplacetobe will give us a resounding YES on that one)

Once we're under the salary cap....who cares? It's about the team winning at that point.
I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. It seems like you're implying that just because the team has been performing well as a whole, that is a suitable excuse for Dubinsky to perform at a level below what we all know he's capable of? I can't imagine Tortorella was telling Dubinsky that it was okay for him to be slumping offensively because the rest of the team was picking up the slack. That's just not a good mentality to have.

I'm not sure why you're up in arms because some of us feel Dubinsky has it in him to be a better player than he showed for the first half of the year.

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01-10-2012, 11:05 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by RL605 View Post
Hence, a grinder.

Let's not overrate Dubi here. I love him, great team player, don't want to trade him, but let's not act like he's irreplaceable.
*sighs*

A grinder.....just your runothemill....grinder. Got it.

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01-10-2012, 11:26 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Everyone? Hardly. The same few people that constantly make ridiculous proposals whenever a player slumps? Sure. The fact of the matter is people were concerned, and they had the right to be. I understand your logic, but Dubinsky had been playing below average by his standards for the first half of the season. You get more money, you're subject to more scrutiny. That's the way it goes for ANY player in the NHL. Hell, that's how it goes in professional sports as a whole.
Yeah...did you ever stop and think about how it's just a product of the system though? Dubinsky just finished his first contract and based on the way the system plays out he was due for a new one. Based on the numbers he had he got a certain number. How does it change anything about the player? People who honestly have the mentality that now that player X is getting this much money that means he needs to improve by X amount is just a silly line of thinking. It's basically setting your expectations higher than they should be all because a person got more money because that's how the system works. I'm not arguing that Dubinsky was producing offensive numbers that were acceptable early in the season, but that type of simplistic thinking has never made any sense to me. When we brought in Richards this offseason it was a product of the system. Here's a guy who has put up 90+ point seasons before and now he's getting more money than he ever has in his career. Why? Because that's how the system works. Are you just as disappointed in Richards this year as you are Dubinsky? You could easily argue that Richards (before the last few games) being on pace for Dubinsky's point totals of last year are a much bigger issue if the only thing that matters is cap hit.




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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Seems to me the only people still clinging to that series of events are the people who want to use it as "exhibit A" whenever someone says a bad thing about him. The common point being made was that Dubinsky had 2 goals as of Christmas. I don't care how you slice it, that's not acceptable. Even if he's contributing in other ways, we need him to score goals. That's a significant part of why we're paying him what we're paying him. I can't remember the last time I saw someone say, "Hey, remember when Dubi held out two years ago? Let's trade him."
Yeah great. Two goals 25 games into a 4 year contract. Tear him to shreds. He's been such a bum his whole tenure as a Ranger. Pretty sure most of us understood he was struggling. There's a difference between acknowledging it as such and being up in arms about him as a player. We've really needed him to score goals so far this season, haven't we? And considering he's always offered up in trade rumors and people in there always at some point mention his hold out, I'll stick to my point.



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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. It seems like you're implying that just because the team has been performing well as a whole, that is a suitable excuse for Dubinsky to perform at a level below what we all know he's capable of? I can't imagine Tortorella was telling Dubinsky that it was okay for him to be slumping offensively because the rest of the team was picking up the slack. That's just not a good mentality to have.

I'm not sure why you're up in arms because some of us feel Dubinsky has it in him to be a better player than he showed for the first half of the year.
Can you name me a single player on this team who has been consistent every game this season? Gaborik has been great this year. He's still had games where he's done nothing. Cally was very good early on. He's cooled off considerably. Arty? Nope. Stepan? Nope. Richards? Nope (and as mentioned...if cap hit for production is your big issue, you must have a serious problem with BR). Boyle? Ha. The only constants have been in goal and defense for us.

Basically what you've decided is that because it was Dubinsky's turn for a new contract based on the rules of the system that now you expect him to be a better player than we actually know that he is? My point is that if he scores 40 points this year, yes it will be a disappointment individually, but if the team goes deep in the post season and he's playing well in the post season, why do you care what he's making? As long as he fits under the salary cap with the rest of the team that is obviously pretty damn good, who cares? It's one year of a 4 year contract and he got off to a terrible offensive start. Finishing with 40+ points at the end of that when his career high is 54 is not the end of the world. You're viewing Dubinsky through your own personal scope of him being a 30-30 player...Except he's never actually been that before in his career.

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01-10-2012, 11:39 AM
  #55
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I for one am glad that there are a few guys not firing on all cylinders yet.

It means this team has another gear.

One they'll need for sure come 2nd season.

It's such a small sample size... if Dubi struggles all yr. (scoring wise) and in the post season (if we make it) then we may have something to worry about. Until then, as long as he's playing hard, he's fine. The points will come or they won't. Playing hard is all you can ask for. At this point his contract is irrelevant. Unless folks (by that I mean the GM, not fans/posters) are serious about trading him.

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01-10-2012, 12:00 PM
  #56
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Let's look at similar cap hits...

Who would you rather have besides Dubinsky?

Mike Fisher?
Pierre Marc Bouchard?
Nik Antropov?
Tomas Fleischmann?
Brooks Laich?
David Legwand?
Daymond Langkow?
Ryan Malone?
Erik Cole?
Ville Leino?
Dustin Penner?
David Booth?
Jason Blake?
Milan Michalek?

I don't think I'd take a single one of them over Dubinsky. The list of players with similar cap hits that I would is much smaller than that one.

Morrow maybe but he's getting old. Loui Eriksson. David Backes. Savard (has had a great career...but guess how many goals he has? Two. Plus he's old now.) Derek Roy.

Who else? The list is littered with players that Dubinsky is better than. If you'd rather have one of them instead I'd like to know who.

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01-10-2012, 12:07 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
I for one am glad that there are a few guys not firing on all cylinders yet.

It means this team has another gear.

One they'll need for sure come 2nd season.
Yup... Staal returning to the line-up and Dubinsky finding his offensive game could provide a huge boost to help carry this team through the 2nd half of the season....

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01-10-2012, 12:39 PM
  #58
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What's interesting to me is that despite his scoring issues early this season he really wasn't playing awful. Now like most things on this board, and especially now that things are going well, it's all about giving Torts credit for even something like this. I said from the beginning that there was never any reason for Dubi to not to stay on the line with Richards and Callahan. Despite his lack of offensive production he was playing well enough to stay on that line and be given a chance to break through. Now what I know will happen is everyone will credit Tortorella for demoting him and making him work his way back, but what's interesting is that even though it's clear that Dubinsky and him have a decent relationship (and Dubi himself is going the right thing and trying to credit Tortorella), his quotes recently actually say the opposite. I only bring it up because it speaks to my point that I was trying to make early in the year. Dubi talked about not having any confidence issues last year because he got off to a hot start and because of that continued to play big minutes every game. It's easy to be confident when you're always on the ice and being given a chance to contribute. This season he was playing fine, just not finding the back of the net. Instead of allowing him to ride it out with Richards and Callhan, two players who would help get him out of an offensive rut, Dubinsky was demoted and paired with linemates who weren't going to help him offensively. This only increases the lack of confidence because you're taking a player whose biggest issue was finding the back of the net, and now putting him with guys who decrease his chances of that even further. Dubinsky needs to be with Callahan. They just work together. They always have. With Richards in the middle it's going to be fine. He's had patience with Step and Arty and Gabby despite their cold streak. He didn't do the same with Dubinsky when he struggled.

It's one of the reasons I always advocate for rolling four lines or at least giving every one semi-credible ice time. Players rely on their confidence and when your coach shows none in you it's very difficult. It's probably why Torts likes guys like Mitchell and Rupp so much.
It's not about Brandon it's about the team at the the time it was the right move for the team because he just wasnt cutting it offensively for the second line. hagelin definitely deserved and worked well with his promotion.
You cling far too heavily to individuals while ignoring the team concept and this leads to your confusion and arguements. Clearly this route worked for Dubs AND the team continued to play great and likely pulled off an extra couple of wins because of the line changes and Hags especially picking up the slack.


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01-10-2012, 12:48 PM
  #59
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It's not about Brandon it's about the team at the the time it was the right move for the team because he just wasnt cutting it offensively for the second line. hagelin definitely deserved and worked well with his promotion.
I'm not arguing that is was or wasn't the right move for the team. I've said that I didn't feel like he should ever be taken off Richie and Cally's line because I didn't think he had many big issues other than his offensive confidence. The team was winning regardless though so it didn't matter.

I was just making that point because people were so critical of him early, then he was put down with Boyle and Prust and people were still knocking him because he wasn't scoring.

His quote and common sense show that a lot of it has to do with confidence, and confidence comes from being on the ice, being trusted, and being in positions to succeed. When you're struggling offensively and the coach cuts your minutes and puts you with two guys who aren't going to help you offensively, you're still going to struggle. And he did.

I just wanted to explain that point because it was funny to me how so many people were on his case and then after he was demoted and playing with Boyle and Prust they STILL were all over him. As if that was supposed to remedy his offensive woes.

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01-10-2012, 01:32 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by ruckus View Post
I'm not arguing that is was or wasn't the right move for the team. I've said that I didn't feel like he should ever be taken off Richie and Cally's line because I didn't think he had many big issues other than his offensive confidence. The team was winning regardless though so it didn't matter.
Well, actually they had lost 2 bad games in a row when he taken off the line. That's what you're missing and what you can't seem to grasp about Tortorella in general. He's not a set the line-up and stand back kind of coach. He's much more proactive about who gets ice time. When things go well, he rides it. When they don't, he's not afraid to make changes and do so quickly.

Dubinsky had ample time to get going offensively. It just wasn't working. 1 goal in 18 games is not going to cut it...so he got bumped while Torts tried alternatives.

It was the right move for the team most importantly, and in time it very well may prove to have been the right thing for Dubinsky.

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01-10-2012, 01:38 PM
  #61
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I have no issues with Dubinsky being moved down the lineup, but I don't think he should have been playing center for 10 or so games. Dubinsky is more effective at LW than center and it's no surprise he started playing better once he was switched back to LW.

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01-10-2012, 01:38 PM
  #62
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Dubinsky is a valuable player to the team but almost every season in the NHL has been marred by inconsistency.

We all love the kid, and he extremely versatile. He skates, hits, kills penalties, can run a PP, blocks shots, scores big goals and is tremendous along the boards.

The problem some of us have had with him is that we see a 40-80 guy waiting to explode and it just hasnt happened yet. Thats why some fans were frustrated (rightfully so)

I think we should all temper our expectations for him. He'll never be a 40-80 guy or even a 30-70 guy, but will always retain his overall value to the team.

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01-10-2012, 01:54 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Dubinsky is a valuable player to the team but almost every season in the NHL has been marred by inconsistency.

We all love the kid, and he extremely versatile. He skates, hits, kills penalties, can run a PP, blocks shots, scores big goals and is tremendous along the boards.

The problem some of us have had with him is that we see a 40-80 guy waiting to explode and it just hasnt happened yet. Thats why some fans were frustrated (rightfully so)

I think we should all temper our expectations for him. He'll never be a 40-80 guy or even a 30-70 guy, but will always retain his overall value to the team.
This.

I never even expected him to be more than a 60 point guy, which is fine for me. All the other stuff he contributes is valuable. I just want consistency from him.

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01-10-2012, 02:05 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Dubinsky is a valuable player to the team but almost every season in the NHL has been marred by inconsistency.

We all love the kid, and he extremely versatile. He skates, hits, kills penalties, can run a PP, blocks shots, scores big goals and is tremendous along the boards.

The problem some of us have had with him is that we see a 40-80 guy waiting to explode and it just hasnt happened yet. Thats why some fans were frustrated (rightfully so)

I think we should all temper our expectations for him. He'll never be a 40-80 guy or even a 30-70 guy, but will always retain his overall value to the team.
Some big mistakes happen when people get frustrated.

He's 25. I find it hard to stay frustrated with a home grown player that works this hard, that's accomplished what Dubinsky already has.

Amonte, Granato, Middleton and the list goes on. This organization has made some mistakes over the years. What the Rangers are finally doing now is the right way to do it. Patience would seem to be the only real obstacle.

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01-10-2012, 02:11 PM
  #65
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This.

I never even expected him to be more than a 60 point guy, which is fine for me. All the other stuff he contributes is valuable. I just want consistency from him.
I agree. We all do.

That being said, consistency is probably the hardest thing to obtain in any endeavor. Even the best athletes battle with it.

I can see a certain amount of complaint, certainly if he were a few years older even, but what happens with Dubi gets to the point where perspective is lost.

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01-10-2012, 02:31 PM
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Well, actually they had lost 2 bad games in a row when he taken off the line. That's what you're missing and what you can't seem to grasp about Tortorella in general. He's not a set the line-up and stand back kind of coach. He's much more proactive about who gets ice time. When things go well, he rides it. When they don't, he's not afraid to make changes and do so quickly.

Dubinsky had ample time to get going offensively. It just wasn't working. 1 goal in 18 games is not going to cut it...so he got bumped while Torts tried alternatives.

It was the right move for the team most importantly, and in time it very well may prove to have been the right thing for Dubinsky.
No trust me, I get it. You're not understanding my point. People were on his case because he wasn't scoring. He was demoted and put in a position that hurt his chance of fixing that. People continued to complain. Do you see how that doesn't make any sense?

It'd be like if you put me in charge of getting a fire going for us on a camping trip and I really struggled getting one going. Then you came over and dumped a bucket of water on all the tinder and brush and you continued to harrass me for not being able to get the fire going.

You're also doing exactly what I said would happen and crediting Torts for this. You do know Brian Boyle's getting over 14 minutes a night right? Torts picks and chooses what he does and to whom. He's usually very selective. Gabby and Dubi have always been on that list.

I only point this all out because as I've said Dubi still has 21 points and that's after a terrible start and playing a bunch of games with Prust and Boyle. If he finishes up with 40+ instead of 50+ it's not the end of the world. He might've snapped out of this sooner if he was just with Cally and Richie the whole time. Him and Cally shouldn't be separated. You would've thought Torts realized that last season.


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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Dubinsky is a valuable player to the team but almost every season in the NHL has been marred by inconsistency.

We all love the kid, and he extremely versatile. He skates, hits, kills penalties, can run a PP, blocks shots, scores big goals and is tremendous along the boards.

The problem some of us have had with him is that we see a 40-80 guy waiting to explode and it just hasnt happened yet. Thats why some fans were frustrated (rightfully so)

I think we should all temper our expectations for him. He'll never be a 40-80 guy or even a 30-70 guy, but will always retain his overall value to the team.

And therein lies the problem. People with unrealistic expectations of what they want from someone. I'm still waiting for someone to go over that list I posted above and tell me who they want over him for his money.

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01-10-2012, 03:45 PM
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No trust me, I get it. You're not understanding my point. People were on his case because he wasn't scoring. He was demoted and put in a position that hurt his chance of fixing that. People continued to complain. Do you see how that doesn't make any sense?
No, I don't think you do because you keep posting that you don't understand the sense of demoting him down the line-up. Clearly, you're missing the big picture of the team concept.

And trust me, I perfectly understand your issue. It's the same old thing that I always read around here. You believe that certain people are taking a stance and rather than addressing them about it, you decide to categorize the situation as applying to everyone.


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It'd be like if you put me in charge of getting a fire going for us on a camping trip and I really struggled getting one going. Then you came over and dumped a bucket of water on all the tinder and brush and you continued to harrass me for not being able to get the fire going.
Well no it wouldn't, because then I would be deliberately sabotaging your efforts. That's not what Torts did, although it's interesting that you percieve it that...

A better analogy would be if I assigned you to something else for the time being rather than starting the fire, because while you sit there struggling and playing with your stick, the rest of us just might freeze to death.


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Originally Posted by ruckus View Post
You're also doing exactly what I said would happen and crediting Torts for this. You do know Brian Boyle's getting over 14 minutes a night right? Torts picks and chooses what he does and to whom. He's usually very selective. Gabby and Dubi have always been on that list.
I already credited Dubinsky earlier in this thread. The truth is that I think both of them deserve credit for the turnaround. Torts for recognizing that a changed needed to be made and Dubinsky for continuing to play hard and getting his game turned around.

Cut the B.S. with Boyle & Gaborik. Torts will & has taken ice time from basically everyone on this roster at one time or another. Therefore, you're point is useless.

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01-10-2012, 04:08 PM
  #68
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Yeah...did you ever stop and think about how it's just a product of the system though? Dubinsky just finished his first contract and based on the way the system plays out he was due for a new one. Based on the numbers he had he got a certain number. How does it change anything about the player? People who honestly have the mentality that now that player X is getting this much money that means he needs to improve by X amount is just a silly line of thinking. It's basically setting your expectations higher than they should be all because a person got more money because that's how the system works. I'm not arguing that Dubinsky was producing offensive numbers that were acceptable early in the season, but that type of simplistic thinking has never made any sense to me. When we brought in Richards this offseason it was a product of the system. Here's a guy who has put up 90+ point seasons before and now he's getting more money than he ever has in his career. Why? Because that's how the system works. Are you just as disappointed in Richards this year as you are Dubinsky? You could easily argue that Richards (before the last few games) being on pace for Dubinsky's point totals of last year are a much bigger issue if the only thing that matters is cap hit.
Uh... yes. That's exactly how it's supposed to work. If you prove you can play at a certain level, and are thus rewarded for that level of play, you're now expected to perform at that level (or better) from that point forward. That's how monetary compensation works. He scored 24 goals last year and was rewarded accordingly. How exactly am I being too hard on him for expecting at least the same result? Your argument makes zero sense.

Yes. I am absolutely disappointed in Richards thus far.


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Yeah great. Two goals 25 games into a 4 year contract. Tear him to shreds. He's been such a bum his whole tenure as a Ranger. Pretty sure most of us understood he was struggling. There's a difference between acknowledging it as such and being up in arms about him as a player. We've really needed him to score goals so far this season, haven't we? And considering he's always offered up in trade rumors and people in there always at some point mention his hold out, I'll stick to my point.
So because we haven't needed the goals, he gets a pass? We're evaluating his play on half a season. Not on his projected contribution down the line. How could you ever justify getting rid of a player if your only answer was "Eh, he'll get better before his contract is over." It makes absolutely no sense.

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Can you name me a single player on this team who has been consistent every game this season? Gaborik has been great this year. He's still had games where he's done nothing. Cally was very good early on. He's cooled off considerably. Arty? Nope. Stepan? Nope. Richards? Nope (and as mentioned...if cap hit for production is your big issue, you must have a serious problem with BR). Boyle? Ha. The only constants have been in goal and defense for us.
Why is this about everyone else? The simple fact is Dubinsky hasn't been as good as he can be, or as good as he ought to be. Even if you ignore his contract entirely. I don't care if he was playing for free. He needs to contribute more offensively.

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Basically what you've decided is that because it was Dubinsky's turn for a new contract based on the rules of the system that now you expect him to be a better player than we actually know that he is? My point is that if he scores 40 points this year, yes it will be a disappointment individually, but if the team goes deep in the post season and he's playing well in the post season, why do you care what he's making? As long as he fits under the salary cap with the rest of the team that is obviously pretty damn good, who cares? It's one year of a 4 year contract and he got off to a terrible offensive start. Finishing with 40+ points at the end of that when his career high is 54 is not the end of the world. You're viewing Dubinsky through your own personal scope of him being a 30-30 player...Except he's never actually been that before in his career.
So now I'm wrong because my opinion of ceiling is too high? I care what he's making because there's a salary cap. Just as people cared about Drury, Redden, Gomez, Zherdev, Naslund, Jagr, Nylander, etc, etc, etc. I think Dubinsky has the potential to be a 30-30 guy and I get on his case because of it. You turn a blind eye because he scored 24 goals last year and we can always throw this year away because he's locked up for 3 more years and the team is winning.

The fact of the matter is that Dubinsky didn't play as well as he should have for the first third of the year. There's really no way to argue against that. That's my point, and I'll leave it at that.

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01-10-2012, 04:42 PM
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We've seen this before in another thread about a certain controversial player. ruckus is under the mistaken impression that ice time fixes all woes when a player isn't playing up to his standard. The truth is that, if you're going to play like a 3rd or 4th line player, you're going to get 3rd or 4th line minutes until you show signs, in game, that you deserve to be put back into your spot. The rope is a little bit longer for someone like Gaborik or Richards. For Dubinsky, it's not. He was playing like a 3rd liner. He got 3rd line minutes. Now he's playing like a 2nd liner. He gets top 6 minutes.

There is nothing wrong with saying that a player hasn't lived up to his contract halfway through the season, because for most people, that's the same as saying he hasn't lived up to expectations. In the end, it's an issue of semantics. We expect Dubinsky to be a 2nd liner. He wasn't playing like one. Dubinsky is paid like a 2nd liner. He wasn't paying like one. What's the difference? That being said, if Dubinsky ends up with 45-60 points, which I think is pretty likely to happen, at the end of the season I think we should all be saying that he lived up to his contract. When looking at the whole season, it doesn't really matter when he put up his points. We are capable of analyzing and judging what he's done so far while still realizing that he can change our opinion of his season with his production.

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01-10-2012, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
We've seen this before in another thread about a certain controversial player. ruckus is under the mistaken impression that ice time fixes all woes when a player isn't playing up to his standard. The truth is that, if you're going to play like a 3rd or 4th line player, you're going to get 3rd or 4th line minutes until you show signs, in game, that you deserve to be put back into your spot. The rope is a little bit longer for someone like Gaborik or Richards. For Dubinsky, it's not. He was playing like a 3rd liner. He got 3rd line minutes. Now he's playing like a 2nd liner. He gets top 6 minutes.

There is nothing wrong with saying that a player hasn't lived up to his contract halfway through the season, because for most people, that's the same as saying he hasn't lived up to expectations. In the end, it's an issue of semantics. We expect Dubinsky to be a 2nd liner. He wasn't playing like one. Dubinsky is paid like a 2nd liner. He wasn't paying like one. What's the difference? That being said, if Dubinsky ends up with 45-60 points, which I think is pretty likely to happen, at the end of the season I think we should all be saying that he lived up to his contract. When looking at the whole season, it doesn't really matter when he put up his points. We are capable of analyzing and judging what he's done so far while still realizing that he can change our opinion of his season with his production.
This is a post that benefits from perspective and a generous amount of level headed thinking.

Many of the posts regarding Dubi during the first 30 games were absent any of that. It was a lot of hysterical whining and demands that he should be traded.

So, hopefully that's all behind us.

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01-10-2012, 05:57 PM
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Uh... yes. That's exactly how it's supposed to work. If you prove you can play at a certain level, and are thus rewarded for that level of play, you're now expected to perform at that level (or better) from that point forward. That's how monetary compensation works. He scored 24 goals last year and was rewarded accordingly. How exactly am I being too hard on him for expecting at least the same result? Your argument makes zero sense.

Yes. I am absolutely disappointed in Richards thus far.




So because we haven't needed the goals, he gets a pass? We're evaluating his play on half a season. Not on his projected contribution down the line. How could you ever justify getting rid of a player if your only answer was "Eh, he'll get better before his contract is over." It makes absolutely no sense.



Why is this about everyone else? The simple fact is Dubinsky hasn't been as good as he can be, or as good as he ought to be. Even if you ignore his contract entirely. I don't care if he was playing for free. He needs to contribute more offensively.



So now I'm wrong because my opinion of ceiling is too high? I care what he's making because there's a salary cap. Just as people cared about Drury, Redden, Gomez, Zherdev, Naslund, Jagr, Nylander, etc, etc, etc. I think Dubinsky has the potential to be a 30-30 guy and I get on his case because of it. You turn a blind eye because he scored 24 goals last year and we can always throw this year away because he's locked up for 3 more years and the team is winning.

The fact of the matter is that Dubinsky didn't play as well as he should have for the first third of the year. There's really no way to argue against that. That's my point, and I'll leave it at that.
Yeah I agree with this. I mean it helps that he has an overall game but being a complete player does not make it okay when a player goes into a slump. Being sound defensively doesn't make it okay to not score goals if you have the talent to score goals.

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01-10-2012, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
This is a post that benefits from perspective and a generous amount of level headed thinking.

Many of the posts regarding Dubi during the first 30 games were absent any of that. It was a lot of hysterical whining and demands that he should be traded.

So, hopefully that's all behind us.
Well, thanks.

I heavily considered being for trading Dubinsky in the right deal a few weeks ago when the Bobby Ryan stuff started kicking around. I ended up coming to the conclusion that Dubinsky is just too important to this team, even when he isn't playing at his best, as a member of the core group. The 10-15 extra goals does not necessarily equate to more wins. Team chemistry is too important. What you gain in offense, you risk losing in chemistry. Not worth it.

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01-10-2012, 06:53 PM
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This thread is a little premature, in my opinion. His biggest issue has been consistency, throughout his career.

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01-10-2012, 07:46 PM
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sorry if asking this in the wrong thread but what happened to Dubi to make him leave the game/? look serious?

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