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The Webs/Suts Rose Ceremony - All Ryan Suter/Shea Weber FA talk

View Poll Results: Do you think that we should trade Ryan Suter at the deadline?
Yes, we need to get something for him rather than nothing. 18 30.51%
No, he's more valuable than any return that we would get for him. 41 69.49%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-10-2012, 10:14 AM
  #26
predfan98
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Originally Posted by VFL615 View Post
Yeah common sense says they were on the map as a team. This team has never had the respect and attention it currently has. Show me 06/07-03/04 were we had more respect, followers, attention. Lets see proof on wins/loses and local support numbers.
I guess you forgot this team was almost gone during the times you mentioned.

I never said careers were over after 5 years. I said that imo webs/suts/peks are in their prime and the team with all the pieces has a window to capitalize and that window imo is 5 years. You think we have a better shot with Webs/Suts/Peks in their late 30's?
Ill be waiting for the "correct post"
i'm just guessing that you didn't live here then and attend lots of games during those years? do you live here now?
how are you measuring respect, followers or attention? canadian media?

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01-10-2012, 10:24 AM
  #27
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First, good post as usual ILIILI. I agree with a lot of it. Not sure how much I will resent them for leaving, but at the moment I am losing a bit of my loyalty to them because of their perceived lack of loyalty to us.

Second, what is this "rose ceremony" and "if we get a rose" stuff?

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01-10-2012, 11:16 AM
  #28
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I have read at least twice now, Suter as being quoted that "this is how we will always have to play here" in reference to a defense first, hard on the puck forechecking style, that if you win, it will be one goal type of games.

That may be a real observation by Suter, but it also bemoans a longing to not have to play that way to win games. It is how that Suter says it in context that gives it away.

I think that both he and weber don't believe that this team can win the cup that way, and that being a perennial playoff team that claws its way in every year to rthe playoffs is just not their vision of how they want to spend the rest of their career.

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01-10-2012, 11:17 AM
  #29
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no, we didn't have as many followers, attention or respect in 03-04... but that was 6 years into the franchise and nearly 10 years ago. What do you expect?

Thinking about that team though, and some of the players who were stars on that team, it's a shame they were hitting there stride back then and not now. Imagine how great it would be to have that Scott Walker on this team now? He would surely be leading in goals and almost definitely net 30+ or having a Vlad Orszagh on our 3rd line today? That's a guy who played hard every shift and would go from scoring 15 on that team to 20+ on this team.

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01-10-2012, 11:35 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
no, we didn't have as many followers, attention or respect in 03-04... but that was 6 years into the franchise and nearly 10 years ago. What do you expect?

Thinking about that team though, and some of the players who were stars on that team, it's a shame they were hitting there stride back then and not now. Imagine how great it would be to have that Scott Walker on this team now? He would surely be leading in goals and almost definitely net 30+ or having a Vlad Orszagh on our 3rd line today? That's a guy who played hard every shift and would go from scoring 15 on that team to 20+ on this team.
Then by 06-07 we had the Forsberg, Kariya, Arnott, Sullivan, Dumont, Vokoun, Timonen, Hartnell level of current and developing star power. We'd passed the exposure that came with the Legwand breakaway in the playoffs and put up a 51 win season (tied for the Conf best).

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01-10-2012, 11:54 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handtrick View Post
I have read at least twice now, Suter as being quoted that "this is how we will always have to play here" in reference to a defense first, hard on the puck forechecking style, that if you win, it will be one goal type of games.

That may be a real observation by Suter, but it also bemoans a longing to not have to play that way to win games. It is how that Suter says it in context that gives it away.

I think that both he and weber don't believe that this team can win the cup that way, and that being a perennial playoff team that claws its way in every year to rthe playoffs is just not their vision of how they want to spend the rest of their career.
Interesting.

Where would you most attribute the "defense first, hard on the puck forechecking style"- personnel or coaching?

I ask that question for two reasons. First, that hasn't always been the case (pointing to that '06-07 team 101 mentions below). Secondly, I'm asking it with a nod towards where it might be most difficult in making that change (personnel or coaching).

I will point out that only Erat, Legwand, Rinne, and Ryan Ellis (among significant prospects) are signed beyond the 2012-2013 season (next season).

Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Then by 06-07 we had the Forsberg, Kariya, Arnott, Sullivan, Dumont, Vokoun, Timonen, Hartnell level of current and developing star power. We'd passed the exposure that came with the Legwand breakaway in the playoffs and put up a 51 win season (tied for the Conf best).

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01-10-2012, 12:09 PM
  #32
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Interesting.

Where would you most attribute the "defense first, hard on the puck forechecking style"- personnel or coaching?

I ask that question for two reasons. First, that hasn't always been the case (pointing to that '06-07 team 101 mentions below). Secondly, I'm asking it with a nod towards where it might be most difficult in making that change (personnel or coaching).
I think it is both. I think it is Trotz's genetic makeup to coach that way, but he played more wide open when he had the personnel to do so.
I think it has as much to do with not having elite offensive players in our draft history and having to have a lower budget team which tends to correspond to a paucicity of goal scorers as they are generally the drafted first, highest paid, most sought after player.

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01-10-2012, 12:16 PM
  #33
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I think it is both. I think it is Trotz's genetic makeup to coach that way, but he played more wide open when he had the personnel to do so.
I think it has as much to do with not having elite offensive players in our draft history and having to have a lower budget team which tends to correspond to a paucicity of goal scorers as they are generally the drafted first, highest paid, most sought after player.
In theory that time is coming to a close (lower budget team).

The second part I've bolded is also not the case for this trade deadline (seemingly) with Bobby Ryan, Zach Parise, Jeff Carter, Rick Nash, and others available for the right price.

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01-10-2012, 12:28 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by VFL615 View Post
Yeah common sense says they were on the map as a team. This team has never had the respect and attention it currently has. Show me 06/07-03/04 were we had more respect, followers, attention. Lets see proof on wins/loses and local support numbers.
I guess you forgot this team was almost gone during the times you mentioned.

I never said careers were over after 5 years. I said that imo webs/suts/peks are in their prime and the team with all the pieces has a window to capitalize and that window imo is 5 years. You think we have a better shot with Webs/Suts/Peks in their late 30's?
Ill be waiting for the "correct post"
How about finishing with a franchise best 110 points?

Local support, as well all know was poisoned by the LIARpold regime, so there is not a consistency in comparisons between the two eras.

And alluding to the previous post, it's not about them or us, it's about what is best for the Nashville Predators.

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01-10-2012, 12:31 PM
  #35
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In theory that time is coming to a close (lower budget team).

The second part I've bolded is also not the case for this trade deadline (seemingly) with Bobby Ryan, Zach Parise, Jeff Carter, Rick Nash, and others available for the right price.
I think the players don't have faith that Poile will pull the trigger to do so.
The main reasons being, his lack of history in pulling the trigger for trades [Patient Poile] and his passiveness in the free agent market [remember Kariya and Arnott having to contact him first].

They are saying basically by their refusal to sign long term prior to now......show me that it has been the circumstances in the past and that it is not your inherent style.
I believe that in their heart, they believe it that Trotz will continue to tend to coach in a defensive oriented style and Poile will tend to remain conservative in his approach to building his team as long as they are together in control of the Preds.

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01-10-2012, 12:41 PM
  #36
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i'm just guessing that you didn't live here then and attend lots of games during those years? do you live here now?
how are you measuring respect, followers or attention? canadian media?
I did live here and have my entire life. Like i asked the other poster show me the numbers on the fans in the seats for the past you are holding onto compared to today. Also show me the proof on how the team had better management and sponsership than it does today. The proof is there and it is pretty obvious. Like it or not respect from other teams and the league is going to be canadian based to some point.
What are your questions based on? What are you trying to get at, sorry im not catching it.

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01-10-2012, 12:45 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by handtrick View Post
I think the players don't have faith that Poile will pull the trigger to do so.
The main reasons being, his lack of history in pulling the trigger for trades [Patient Poile] and his passiveness in the free agent market [remember Kariya and Arnott having to contact him first].

They are saying basically by their refusal to sign long term prior to now......show me that it has been the circumstances in the past and that it is not your inherent style.
I believe that in their heart, they believe it that Trotz will continue to tend to coach in a defensive oriented style and Poile will tend to remain conservative in his approach to building his team as long as they are together in control of the Preds.
The offers they're rumored to have gotten go against the so-called inherent style Poile gets blamed for while operating within a tight budget. The 7yr/$7mil per deal that was reportedly offered to Weber is well beyond the normal play it safe reputation as is the Rinne deal.

If either of them thinks that they get to dictate roster moves, I wish them the Kariya experience ... sign with a "contender" just to endure years of team failure.

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01-10-2012, 12:47 PM
  #38
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I disagree on the Kariya point. He wanted to come back but we weren't in a position to give up the cash needed.

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01-10-2012, 12:48 PM
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How about finishing with a franchise best 110 points?

Local support, as well all know was poisoned by the LIARpold regime, so there is not a consistency in comparisons between the two eras.

And alluding to the previous post, it's not about them or us, it's about what is best for the Nashville Predators.
In my previous posts i clearly said that it is what is best for the Nashville Predators, Ryan Suter, and Shea Weber. So.....

No its pretty clear and like i said bring the numbers in to support your argument on how the team had more support in the years you brought up than it does today.
We had 99 points last season and 100 the year before. A couple of more wins does not mean it was the glory days.
I am just trying to say that the team is at an all time high in all aspects and i hope what needs to be done to get even better is done.
What exactly are looking for or trying to say with your replies to my posts only?

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01-10-2012, 12:53 PM
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In my previous posts i clearly said that it is what is best for the Nashville Predators, Ryan Suter, and Shea Weber. So.....

No its pretty clear and like i said bring the numbers in to support your argument on how the team had more support in the years you brought up than it does today.
We had 99 points last season and 100 the year before. A couple of more wins does not mean it was the glory days.
I am just trying to say that the team is at an all time high in all aspects and i hope what needs to be done to get even better is done.
What exactly are looking for or trying to say with your replies to my posts only?
I think what most of us gathered from your post was that if Suter and Weber leave, we will go back to 03-04 levels of support. Or that they are the reason that support has grown from that point.

The counter is that, the franchise was younger and had poor ownership at that time. So linking popularity only to Suter/Weber is false.

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01-10-2012, 01:06 PM
  #41
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I did live here and have my entire life. Like i asked the other poster show me the numbers on the fans in the seats for the past you are holding onto compared to today. Also show me the proof on how the team had better management and sponsership than it does today. The proof is there and it is pretty obvious. Like it or not respect from other teams and the league is going to be canadian based to some point.
What are your questions based on? What are you trying to get at, sorry im not catching it.
The high water mark for tickets sold per game and actual butts in the seats remains the first two seasons. Josh Cooper is failing to report the sold ticket numbers for this season so it appears that we'll just have to wait until June to find out how things are going at the box office. Tickets issued is on pace with 1999-2000 so far this season. The on ice best performance remains 2006-07 with 51 wins, 110 points, 272 goals scored, and a +60 goal differential.

This team earned its respect starting in 03-04. It has maintained that respect with six out of seven seasons in the playoffs and a top five regular season record since the lockout and doing that while on a budget so tight that many of the teams we keep outperforming can't grasp how it's done.


Last edited by ThirdManIn: 01-10-2012 at 02:36 PM. Reason: Unnecessary
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01-10-2012, 01:14 PM
  #42
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I don't think we'd go back to 03-04 levels of support, but I definately think we would take a hit if Weber/Suter leave.

Right or wrong, there's a perception that we don't pay our guys, won't spend money, and as soon as they become good players, they get moved off. Us die-hards know that's not necessarily the case, but the casual fan who might have jumped on board in the last year or two - do they know that? Alot of the team is marketed around guys like Suter and Weber. Perception vs. Reality, but it might look worse than the actual on ice product (considering that we would have a bunch of $$$'s to spend).

Next, with Weber/Suter gone, it's going to be hard to ice a team better than we do now. Maybe we can put out one as good, but to take that step forward that we need to continue to grow the franchise - it would be hard after losing 2 homegrown talents - unless you just absolutely hit home runs in FA or whatever.

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01-10-2012, 01:35 PM
  #43
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The offers they're rumored to have gotten go against the so-called inherent style Poile gets blamed for while operating within a tight budget. The 7yr/$7mil per deal that was reportedly offered to Weber is well beyond the normal play it safe reputation as is the Rinne deal.

If either of them thinks that they get to dictate roster moves, I wish them the Kariya experience ... sign with a "contender" just to endure years of team failure.
The "playing it safe" Poile is his hesitancy to trade accumulated assets for the what players feel we need for the present. This belief by the players may go directly contrary to the long term health of the franchise, but that is where the impasse occurs. This is the main reason this franchise doesn't yo yo like most others do.
His "playing it safe" doesn't seem to apply to giving homegrown talent the contract they deserve or even more than they deserve when ownership opens the purse.

The last time Poile "traded for what we currently needed" was the Forsberg deal which he did with a gun to his head and proved to be a poor decision. When Poile does something against his nature and he gets burned, no surprise he doesn't go that direction again.

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01-10-2012, 01:42 PM
  #44
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the witt and forsberg trades, so far, have iced DP in terms of high profile trades.

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01-10-2012, 02:01 PM
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Interesting slant in this article concerning suter..

http://nashvillecitypaper.com/conten...potlight-suter

There does seem to be more and more articles like this.

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01-10-2012, 02:18 PM
  #46
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The "playing it safe" Poile is his hesitancy to trade accumulated assets for the what players feel we need for the present. This belief by the players may go directly contrary to the long term health of the franchise, but that is where the impasse occurs. This is the main reason this franchise doesn't yo yo like most others do.
His "playing it safe" doesn't seem to apply to giving homegrown talent the contract they deserve or even more than they deserve when ownership opens the purse.

The last time Poile "traded for what we currently needed" was the Forsberg deal which he did with a gun to his head and proved to be a poor decision. When Poile does something against his nature and he gets burned, no surprise he doesn't go that direction again.
He went after Kessel but that didn't pan out. There's not much telling how deep he was in the Carter and Richards trade talk this past summer. Fisher was a "right now" move that while not flashy, did fill a need. Eventually we get into that great unknown of how much is Poile, how much is the budget, and how much is just looking at the market and seeing that many of the potential deals just aren't the right moves for the cost.

He could have always gone after Uppie at $3.5mil per season.

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01-10-2012, 02:23 PM
  #47
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Interesting slant in this article concerning suter..

http://nashvillecitypaper.com/conten...potlight-suter

There does seem to be more and more articles like this.
Very interesting article with alot of truth to it.
When Weber was injured, Suter "wanted the ball." he talked about "he would be more than happy to play over 30 minutes, or do whatever it takes to win."

This DOES sound like a guy who wants to be "the man" and not just "Robin" the rest of his career, eventhough the tandem could accomplish some things they may not be able to accomplish apart.

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01-10-2012, 02:28 PM
  #48
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I think what most of us gathered from your post was that if Suter and Weber leave, we will go back to 03-04 levels of support. Or that they are the reason that support has grown from that point.

The counter is that, the franchise was younger and had poor ownership at that time. So linking popularity only to Suter/Weber is false.
You did not read that in my post. I simply said the team has more respect and support than ever from fans and the NHL. Suter and Weber are a big part of that.
Since it is false prove and show me how?

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01-10-2012, 02:35 PM
  #49
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Very interesting article with alot of truth to it.
When Weber was injured, Suter "wanted the ball." he talked about "he would be more than happy to play over 30 minutes, or do whatever it takes to win."

This DOES sound like a guy who wants to be "the man" and not just "Robin" the rest of his career, eventhough the tandem could accomplish some things they may not be able to accomplish apart.
Well, it is here for him to be "the man", but he's got to sign on the dotted line and show some faith..

If he doesn't want it, just quit saying so. Kind of goes back to the first post.

Hand us the rose, ryan........and let the thread die...

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01-10-2012, 02:55 PM
  #50
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Guys...PLEASE don't start slingin at each other. Keep it civil.

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