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GM 44: Canucks def. Lightning - 5-4 (SO) (Edler, Hansen, Malhotra, Kesler)

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01-11-2012, 02:40 AM
  #101
Canucker
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
He's intimidating because he will attack you whether you're game or not. The fact he's small is actually an advantage because he's not above anyone's weight class. There are usually about a half dozen to a dozen guys on the other team he could realistically drop the gloves with if things get heated - those are the 'tough guys' that have the biggest impact IMO. He also has that Gino Odjick aura about him where you never know what he's going to do. Makes guys think about him that much more.

It's not just his toughness though that makes him intriguing. Surprisingly he thinks the game pretty well and is also a good playmaker. The Canucks could use another pass 1st forward and bringing in one that's young and already had some playoff success is an added bonus.

If his teammates don't like him he's a poor fit for a team that is always on the road. If he's well liked, he's the type of guy that could fill a void, do it on a bargain contract and should still be getting better.
I like Downie's skill, thats no issue for me...to me its the "loose cannon" factor. I like that sometimes, but not so much on a contending team that already has discipline issues.

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01-11-2012, 02:41 AM
  #102
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I kind of miss Torres .

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01-11-2012, 02:45 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
downie is one of three legitimately intimidating players because he is liable to snap at some point and literally murder someone on the ice without them expecting it

like he's completely insane and homicide isnt outside his realm if really pushed that far
I agree. Heavyweights don't intimidate because evryone knows they don't have to fight them. Downie won't ask you to fight, he'll just sucker punch you. He doesn't care if you're Jason Blake...

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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
I dunno about Downie. I'd like him on the team but not at the cost of Schneider. You need someone with a greater upside to justify the swap. Downie is a good compliment - but that's all he is. If it's Tampa it's gotta be Connolly IMO.
Steve Ott is a compliment too. Those players can be very valuable, especially in the playoffs when penalties are down.

Connolly's injury hostory would worry me. He's also not as likely to help over the next couple years when the Canucks should be at their peak.


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Plus, if he's that loose of a cannon why the hell would we want him?
Because though he takes a lot of penalties he also draws a TON as well. Usually draws more than he takes. When your PP is #1 in the league...

Look where he played all night. If he wasn't trying to run guys over in the corner he was parked in front of the net. The Canucks generate a lot of shots from the blueline - having guys to play the Holmstrom role is important. Downie would likely find a home there on the 2nd PP unit and as a pass first player should help get Cody more shots.

The other advantage to carrying Downie is it makes it less of a need to ice a fighter on the 4th line. Should make it easier to ice a quality 4th line.

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01-11-2012, 02:49 AM
  #104
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No way. Downie is exactly what this team was 2 years ago. We saw how Ballard got under his skin this game and hes an obvious target for refs. With Downie on this team theres a possibility that the Canucks get even more penalties!
Over the last 3 years he's put his team on the PP more than the PK. Considering the Canucks special teams are stronger than their 5 on 5 play I think Downie's discipline issues get cancelled out here.

Not to mention the more penalties he takes the less the rest of the team get. Refs are always looking to 'even up' penalty calls for both teams.

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01-11-2012, 02:51 AM
  #105
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No, I don't think it is unfair. Granted, he may have hit a wall. But it doesn't look like he's gassed. It looks more like he's reverted to what he was. _That's_ why he's being criticized.


He's not long for this team IMO.
Seems an odd game to slag Raymond. Guy made the third goal happen by the driving the net, and then he got the team the extra point by actually scoring in the shootout. Way I see it, they get zero points tonight without Mason Raymond. But yes, I agree he hasn't been getting enough points generally.

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01-11-2012, 02:59 AM
  #106
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there's an awful lot of angst in this thread for a game where the Canucks won their 3rd road game in 4 days

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01-11-2012, 03:12 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Over the last 3 years he's put his team on the PP more than the PK. Considering the Canucks special teams are stronger than their 5 on 5 play I think Downie's discipline issues get cancelled out here.

Not to mention the more penalties he takes the less the rest of the team get. Refs are always looking to 'even up' penalty calls for both teams.
Not that I don't believe you but I'd love to take a look at those numbers.

I was a big supporter of Downie before this season but I'm not so sure anymore and I definitely wouldn't want to part with Schnieder for him. Although he is a willing combatant I don't think he is that good of a fighter. Also, he seems more of a shoot first guy to me more than a pass first which the team already has a ton of.

In regards to 'even up' calls, I disagree. This team has already had trouble with penalties and bringing in someone as bad a history as Downie would increase the teams penalties ten-fold. We saw how the refs started to call penalties on Burrows, Kesler and LaPierre during the playoffs because of their past history of embellishing or dirty plays. You think the refs would start calling more pps in favour of the Canucks if they acquired Downie? I'm not so sure.. no offense, kind of sounds like backwards thinking to me.

I think the biggest reason why this team got past Chicago and was about to get by Boston was because they stayed within themselves. The team focused on their skill rather than on toughness. Don't get me wrong, they played tough whistle to whistle but limited themselves after the whistle and basically played their game.

If Downie is acquired, this team most definitely would have to bring in a goon to clean up the havoc that he and all of our other pests on the team would create. You can't expect Downie to fight a guy like Lucic or Thornton in Boston without the momentum swaying on their side because of a lost fight.

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01-11-2012, 03:28 AM
  #108
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Chicago SHOULD have made the playoffs, and been a much higher seed. If you look at the underlying metrics, they were right on par with San Jose, Detroit, and Vancouver.
yeah, but they would drop games that they should have been winning.

They were lazy after the cup win and it cost them.

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01-11-2012, 03:42 AM
  #109
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Schneider is a very strong goalie and Gillis would be nuts to let him go before the playoffs. Who knows what the future brings and I'd be concerned heading into playoffs with a team that should make a good run of it with Luongo and an untested Eddie Lack. I'd keep him until the off-season and then see what transpires. He deserves to be the starting goalie somewhere but whether it's this spring or next September won't matter to him but it could make the world of difference to this organization.

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01-11-2012, 03:45 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by cjcanucks View Post
Schneider is a very strong goalie and Gillis would be nuts to let him go before the playoffs. Who knows what the future brings and I'd be concerned heading into playoffs with a team that should make a good run of it with Luongo and an untested Eddie Lack. I'd keep him until the off-season and then see what transpires. He deserves to be the starting goalie somewhere but whether it's this spring or next September won't matter to him but it could make the world of difference to this organization.
Yeah and next year, Luongo and Schneider can each get 40 games and be a duo instead of having one guy play more games than the other. And as much as I hate to say this, I don't think Salo'll be back for another year and with his cap space, we can sign Cory to a deal because he's a RFA.

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01-11-2012, 04:13 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
No, I don't think it is unfair. Granted, he may have hit a wall. But it doesn't look like he's gassed. It looks more like he's reverted to what he was. _That's_ why he's being criticized.


He's not long for this team IMO.
Who's surprised that he regressed? It was as inevitable as Luongo's October starts. Raymond played well because he was coming off injury and had a fearless urgency / excitement due to missing the time and played recklessly. Now that the excitement has worn off, Raymond is back to where he's supposed to be.

I disagree with that. Raymond's a good player at a good price and has a multi-dimensional 200 ft game. He is one of the forwards that can skate into the zone with the puck and we actually don't have too many of those.

As for moving Schneider for Downie.. what's the point? We have enough weapons. We need a defenseman to replace Salo.

Sedins, Burrows, Kesler, Hodgson, Booth, Raymond, Hansen and Higgins.. who does Downie displace? Downie has no business playing top 9 minutes on this team.

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01-11-2012, 04:55 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by cjcanucks View Post
Schneider is a very strong goalie and Gillis would be nuts to let him go before the playoffs. Who knows what the future brings and I'd be concerned heading into playoffs with a team that should make a good run of it with Luongo and an untested Eddie Lack. I'd keep him until the off-season and then see what transpires. He deserves to be the starting goalie somewhere but whether it's this spring or next September won't matter to him but it could make the world of difference to this organization.
I would be ticked if the Nucks moved Schneider. He has a calmness in his game that Luongo does not have.

Rather the team tried to move Luongo out rather than Schneider.

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01-11-2012, 05:08 AM
  #113
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Just watched the Edler hit on Stamkos again from the main feed that the TB commentators used. Absolutely nothing dirty about it. It makes you wonder why they showed a worse angle in the replays where it looked like he might have braced his shoulder at head height. Well, I know why: they wanted to start a controversy.

He's bent the other way and Stamkos runs into the back of him. Shoulder is nowhere near him and the initial point of contact is probably Edler's backside.

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01-11-2012, 05:33 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by a pony View Post
there's an awful lot of angst in this thread for a game where the Canucks won their 3rd road game in 4 days
I agree. A lot of hockey, a lot of cross continental travel, a lot of emotion/let down, and 2 AHLers in the lineup.

I'll take it.


St. Loo on Thursday is a big game, then they get 2 days off and start a 6 game home stand against the Ducks. They get the Kings, Sharks, Blackhawks and Wings in those games so that's going to be a big test.

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01-11-2012, 05:37 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by BAuldie View Post
Didn't think Hodgson looked that good last night. Several bad turnovers around the teams blue line.. nothing that ended up in the back of the net mind you.
I agree with you. He looked pretty gassed all night to me. Kind of confused by the posters who felt he had another strong game. I didn't see it at all. Weak on the puck, weak in his decisions with it. I think he does better playing centre on his own line. Seems to create a lot more opportunities that way.
I'm not chastising him, just thought he had one of his poorer games of the season is all. Having said that the entire team looks gassed, not just Cody.

I'm one of those guys that gets frustrated by Raymond's play, and would be ok if he were a part in a trade for something big coming back. He has hands of gold, but can never seem to finish with them. He's great at buttonhooking and getting free, but he wins an incredibly low amount of puck battles along the wall. This is what concerns me most with Raymond - in the playoffs, winning those battles on the boards and everywhere on the ice for that matter is key. This is why I feel he could be expendable for a more valuable piece. He's obviously not a guy you just get rid of, there would have to be something significant coming back.

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01-11-2012, 05:40 AM
  #116
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Man, I really don't want to trade Schnu. That sequence in the 1st period on that powerplay was simply awesome.

I would try at all costs to keep him around and split the goaltending duties. But realistically that's not going to work for either goalie.

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01-11-2012, 05:41 AM
  #117
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the whole team looks gassed. after a spirited win on saturday in boston, lazy effort against florida. sub-par 24hrs later. all of the guys should need a break.

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01-11-2012, 05:43 AM
  #118
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the whole team looks gassed. after a spirited win on saturday in boston, lazy effort against florida. sub-par 24hrs later. all of the guys should need a break.
Tired team going in to st.louis to play probably the hardest working team in the league... not good. I"m quite worried about this game. I think it might get ugly.

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01-11-2012, 06:11 AM
  #119
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My thoughts on the game tonight, (well, last night technically)

Bieksa looked pretty sloppy, bad game for him. Schneider looked good yet again, other than his puckhandling at times, and does anyone think that starting him 2 out of 3 games might have been AV sending some sort of message? The goaltending situation is a real pickle to me. How would you play it?

I had a feeling about 2 shifts after TB scored their 3rd goal that it might be going to overtime.

Good to get the win, but Canucks play of late has me a little worried, not much, but a little. I thought they sat back on the lead too much last half of 3rd, perhaps fatigue was a factor in that idk.

Regardless of the fact they aren't looking too sharp lately imo, mentally or physically,( i blame the Boston game in large part for this, the mental part anyhow); i think it would be well to remember that they did beat Boston in Boston, (last year Van lost to Bruins in Van in regular season) and we did beat Tampa 5-4 in OT (they beat us 5-4 in OT last season) so hopefully these are small indications of the team continuing to improve.

It's hard for me to remember we are only just passed the halfway mark of the season, i can't get my mind off of the coming playoffs. I'm really hoping for round 4 with Chicago (not round 4 as in SCF but as in the fourth year facing them in the post season.) But i'm getting way ahead of myself with that one, i realize.


Last edited by yoss: 01-11-2012 at 06:22 AM. Reason: i always seem to edit for some reason.
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01-11-2012, 07:19 AM
  #120
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If you didn't know the team had been playing so many games recently and that it was the 2nd of a back-to-back, would you have been able to tell that they were tired and gassed? Just wondering.

Some great posts by mossey3535 in here btw. I too am concerned with certain aspects of the team's play - even when they're fresh and rested.

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01-11-2012, 07:26 AM
  #121
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Steve Yzerman has now watched 2 of the last 4 Canucks games

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01-11-2012, 07:27 AM
  #122
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If you didn't know the team had been playing so many games recently and that it was the 2nd of a back-to-back, would you have been able to tell that they were tired and gassed? Just wondering.
I assume your referring to my post. Yes, i was aware of the situation, but wondering if this was why they sat back so much near the end, or if it was more intentional strategy. I don't like when they try to sit on leads. Obviously with a few minutes left, that's what you do, but it just felt like they weren't forechecking or trying to score at all pretty much after the 3rd TB goal.

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01-11-2012, 07:43 AM
  #123
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its becoming increasingly obvious to me (and i hope to GMs across the league) that Schneider is an absolute stud. Not that we didnt really know this previously, but he is consistently proving it all over the league now. I hope (and trust) that Gillis will totally maximize his value -- that means NO to Downie, from TB it's Hedman, Connolly or nuts. These type of guys just dont come around that often.

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01-11-2012, 08:10 AM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmythescot View Post
Just watched the Edler hit on Stamkos again from the main feed that the TB commentators used. Absolutely nothing dirty about it. It makes you wonder why they showed a worse angle in the replays where it looked like he might have braced his shoulder at head height. Well, I know why: they wanted to start a controversy.

He's bent the other way and Stamkos runs into the back of him. Shoulder is nowhere near him and the initial point of contact is probably Edler's backside.
Yes Stamkos was a bit late and Edler saw it, braced for Stamkos and he fell like he did run into a wall.

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01-11-2012, 10:36 AM
  #125
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Sedins are officially in a slump. 3 very weak performances in a row and some lazy defensive zone coverage aswell. PP has been struggling a lot and that's the biggest reason for it.

Thought Duco had couple of mistakes in the first period but played better in the second. If he can clean those errors I don't mind seeing him in the fourth line.

Lots of turnovers and giveaways, especially from the Hamhuis-Bieksa pairing. Schneider was very good, the Canucks gave up tons of quality chances. Can't help it but I'm just feeling more confident with Schneider than Luongo.

If the Canucks don't pick it up, it's going to get ugly on thursday. Better find those workboots and wear them for 60 minutes because the Blues will do that.

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