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Old
01-11-2012, 08:39 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Where do you get your player evaluations?

Campoli for 1.75 mil as an insurance policy on Markov is a baragain. Too bad he got hurt in his first game. He struggled coming back from the injury, but since sitting out a few games he's playing well.

I find it dumb that people use the first few games back after a bad injury(cost him like 8 weeks) to say that he sucks. The guy has had a solid career and he's been a steady reliable 2 way d-man playing #3-5 minutes. Would be a solid addition to a contender for depth.

Spacek was brutal last year, getting Kaberle for him was highway robbery, if not for all the HF Gauthier haters and their coloured glasses people would see that.
Ya, too bad all of the hockey experts don't agree with you and that's not talking about HF. Everyone around the league said he was playing crap since last years and has a horrible contract, yet Rutherford found a fish to dump him too You should change your user name from Carey Price to Mr. Pierre Gauthier

Kaberle is a #5-6 at best getting paid over 4 million a year!

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01-11-2012, 08:52 AM
  #27
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I'm a lot more comfortable with Subban in our zone than Emelin. Emelin is growing as a player and will one day likely be a solid shutdown/nasty D but right now he's inexperienced. No reason to rely on him more than Subban or feel he's more reliable. Give Subban only 20 minutes a night and he'll make less mistakes, problem is the team can't afford to do that and still win games.

When Diaz, Campoli, Weber are all in your D lineup or revolving... and that's not slight on Diaz but come on, you're going to have problems.

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01-11-2012, 08:54 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Ya, too bad all of the hockey experts don't agree with you and that's not talking about HF. Everyone around the league said he was playing crap since last years and has a horrible contract, yet Rutherford found a fish to dump him too You should change your user name from Carey Price to Mr. Pierre Gauthier

Kaberle is a #5-6 at best getting paid over 4 million a year!
He plays like a #2 offensively which is what this team needed. I'll be first to admit we probably could use Wiz right now as he's a guy who can also shoot, but this is far from the situation you and the rest of fans make it out to be. He was brought in to produce points not stop goals from happening, he hasn't been on the ice for too many goals and yet he has in 3/4 games he plays roughly.

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01-11-2012, 08:54 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post

Spacek was brutal last year, getting Kaberle for him was highway robbery, if not for all the HF Gauthier haters and their coloured glasses people would see that.
let me ask you this, CP...

if Gauthier traded Gomez to Carolina for Spacek, who do you think would be getting "robbed"?


I don't think anyone has tried to argue that trading away Spacek was a problem... his level of play had dropped considerably, and he was at best a bottom-pairing dman getting paid ~4M$.


in a non-cap world, Kaberle for Spacek would have been a good trade.

but you are seemingly ignoring the 2 years/9M$ difference btw the two players.

as much as you and others seem to want to completely ignore that there is a cap system in place and that this has a huge impact on player movement, ignoring it doesn't eliminate it.

Canes were trying to unload Kaberle to anyone who would take him, we obliged, and instead of getting some kind of "bonus" for taking all of the risk that he would continue to play as poorly as he did for them (or for the bruins down the stretch... basically as a bottom-pairing, soft, PP specialist), we GAVE the Canes an expiring contract.

for 2/3 of 1 season, we get the "advantage" of a bottom-pairing dman who can contribute some pts on the pp (compared to Spacek, a bottom pairing dman with minimal offensive contributions), and then for the next 2 years the Canes get the "advantage" of NOT having to pay Kaberle 4.25M$ to do what MAB (and several other pp specialists) does for 1-2M$.

it was a dumb trade even if we got the slightly better player in the process... thus is the reality of a cap system.

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01-11-2012, 09:01 AM
  #30
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Points in 3/4 of the games he plays rather.

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01-11-2012, 09:07 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
He plays like a #2 offensively which is what this team needed. I'll be first to admit we probably could use Wiz right now as he's a guy who can also shoot, but this is far from the situation you and the rest of fans make it out to be. He was brought in to produce points not stop goals from happening, he hasn't been on the ice for too many goals and yet he has in 3/4 games he plays roughly.
He isn't producing that much either for the type of player he should be. He has 8 pts since being acquired and only 2 of them have been on the pp which he was supposed to spark(Hasn't changed much besides his first couple of games). Look I said it then and I'll say it again, the one for one trade I have no problem with but we did end up in the worse of the cap hit and Gauthier could have gotten a pick to take him. That's my opinion you take away a problem from a team then compensate which he didn't. All of this because of the Markov contract and not having a plan B in place up until the last exhibition game which he signed Campoli. Gauthier needs to go and if he doesn't things aren't getting better(but again it's my opinion and you don't have to agree)

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01-11-2012, 09:11 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Ya, too bad all of the hockey experts don't agree with you and that's not talking about HF. Everyone around the league said he was playing crap since last years and has a horrible contract, yet Rutherford found a fish to dump him too You should change your user name from Carey Price to Mr. Pierre Gauthier

Kaberle is a #5-6 at best getting paid over 4 million a year!
How many #5-6 defenseman put up 50+ points a year? Your trolling is downright pathetic.

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01-11-2012, 09:12 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
How many #5-6 defenseman put up 50+ points a year? Your trolling is downright pathetic.
He hasn't had a 50 pts season since 2007-08, keep trying harder CP

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01-11-2012, 09:21 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
let me ask you this, CP...

if Gauthier traded Gomez to Carolina for Spacek, who do you think would be getting "robbed"?


I don't think anyone has tried to argue that trading away Spacek was a problem... his level of play had dropped considerably, and he was at best a bottom-pairing dman getting paid ~4M$.


in a non-cap world, Kaberle for Spacek would have been a good trade.

but you are seemingly ignoring the 2 years/9M$ difference btw the two players.

as much as you and others seem to want to completely ignore that there is a cap system in place and that this has a huge impact on player movement, ignoring it doesn't eliminate it.

Canes were trying to unload Kaberle to anyone who would take him, we obliged, and instead of getting some kind of "bonus" for taking all of the risk that he would continue to play as poorly as he did for them (or for the bruins down the stretch... basically as a bottom-pairing, soft, PP specialist), we GAVE the Canes an expiring contract.

for 2/3 of 1 season, we get the "advantage" of a bottom-pairing dman who can contribute some pts on the pp (compared to Spacek, a bottom pairing dman with minimal offensive contributions), and then for the next 2 years the Canes get the "advantage" of NOT having to pay Kaberle 4.25M$ to do what MAB (and several other pp specialists) does for 1-2M$.

it was a dumb trade even if we got the slightly better player in the process... thus is the reality of a cap system.
The extra 2 years is a non issue if Kaberle keeps playing at the level he is at now...12 points his last 14 games and +1 playing on crappy teams. I'm sure we would have no issue finding takers at the deadline or in the summer if we want to move him. Before doing that, I'd make sure Markov is back at 100%.

Comparing him to MAB is ridiculous, 5 on 5 he is miles ahead of MAB. He isn't great defensively but he is AT LEAST NHL average and can easily play #3-4 minutes.

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01-11-2012, 09:25 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
He hasn't had a 50 pts season since 2007-08, keep trying harder CP
The previous two years he had 47 and 49, we're talking about 1 and 3 points off of 50 here and that's getting your panties in a bunch?

Face it, he's a ~50pt D and nothing you say is going to change that. Saying he hasn't achieved 50pts since 2007-08 is true but it's disingenuous to some extent as you're using it as a means to imply he isn't a valuable offensive D anymore, that he's far from prime. Well sorry but 1 point off and 3 points off of 50 in the last 2 years is hardly a solid argument. Heck even in 2008-09 you neglect to mention how he was on pace for 50 if it weren't for an injury.

Face it he hasn't regressed, he struggled early on with a new team and that happens all the time. He was never a solid D in terms of defense, he's always been primarily an offensive D but he's still an upgrade over a guy like MAB defensively. How you can try any way in the book to spin it so you win an argument is laughable.

I may not agree with CP often but you're nitpicking.

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01-11-2012, 09:30 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
How many #5-6 defenseman put up 50+ points a year? Your trolling is downright pathetic.
MAB is on pace for 48pts this year... most around here considered him at best a #7 dman.

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01-11-2012, 09:33 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post

Kaberle is a #5-6 at best getting paid over 4 million a year!
Are you talking about Kaberle or Gorges, we have so many blueliners like this.

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01-11-2012, 09:35 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
The extra 2 years is a non issue if Kaberle keeps playing at the level he is at now...12 points his last 14 games and +1 playing on crappy teams. I'm sure we would have no issue finding takers at the deadline or in the summer if we want to move him. Before doing that, I'd make sure Markov is back at 100%.

Comparing him to MAB is ridiculous, 5 on 5 he is miles ahead of MAB. He isn't great defensively but he is AT LEAST NHL average and can easily play #3-4 minutes.
and yet on a struggling team desperate to get back in the playoff picture, his coach has him playing 13min/game in the first 3 games of the new year (go figure, 2 of those were wins...)

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01-11-2012, 09:47 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
He hasn't had a 50 pts season since 2007-08, keep trying harder CP
He had 49 in 09-10 and 47 last yaer...but I guess 2 points a year make all the difference in the world

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01-11-2012, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
and yet on a struggling team desperate to get back in the playoff picture, his coach has him playing 13min/game in the first 3 games of the new year (go figure, 2 of those were wins...)
Obviously the numbers show he should be playing more and others should play less(Gill and Subban).

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01-11-2012, 10:13 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
MAB is on pace for 48pts this year... most around here considered him at best a #7 dman.
I never understood the hate on these boards for MAB, his offensive upside and hockey smarts far outweighed any defensive liabilities he had which again were highly exagerated on these boards.

The only way Gauthier can save his job now is by unloading Kaberle at the deadline, but unfortunately I'd rather have someone else at the helm to be making those trades.

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01-11-2012, 10:36 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by habsrock76 View Post
I never understood the hate on these boards for MAB, his offensive upside and hockey smarts far outweighed any defensive liabilities he had which again were highly exagerated on these boards.

The only way Gauthier can save his job now is by unloading Kaberle at the deadline, but unfortunately I'd rather have someone else at the helm to be making those trades.
That shouldn't be hard, teams are dying for 50pts d's. I hope Mr. Gauthier has double line on his phone

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01-11-2012, 10:57 AM
  #43
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Spacek is a better dman than Kaberle, kabs can't even take a regular shift at ES, the trade was a dud, again. Any1 defending kaberle must not watch the games, he's been the worst defensive dman on this team by a mile. His coverage is soft, he turns the puck over regularly and when we have a lead in the 3rd period he doesn't play at all. He's a bum, two more years of this, christ.

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01-11-2012, 11:00 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
MAB is on pace for 48pts this year... most around here considered him at best a #7 dman.
MAB is an upgrade to kaberle, he would at least help the pp. Kaberle has helped nothing.

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01-11-2012, 11:31 AM
  #45
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Watching Kaberle makes me understand how the Leafs didn't make the playoffs for so many year. Can you imagine him as your #1D!? I used to think Markov was soft, but compared to Kaberle he's a warrior.

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01-11-2012, 12:20 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
MAB is an upgrade to kaberle, he would at least help the pp. Kaberle has helped nothing.
Like I said at the time of the trade, people are going to see a bunch of 2nd assists, be fooled into thinking he's "producing/productive", and then confused at why the team loses relying on a guy like Kaberle. He was not the droid we were looking for then, and he's not the droid we're looking for now, no matter how "smart" getting him for Spacek can be made to look with pens and paper and such.

Yeah, I guess that's a big "I told ya so" to everyone who was seeing green pastures and sun-lit lanes lined with daffodils leading to the playoffs - while whistling/reciting all of Kaberle's past stats lines - when he was brought in.

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01-11-2012, 01:03 PM
  #47
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Fyi - Kaberle has 8 points in 13 games since joining the Habs, and is only a -2. That's a 50 point pace over the course of a season.

I'm not a huge fan of the trade due to cap reasons, but stop acting like he's washed up. He was brought in to help with the offense, which he has done.

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01-11-2012, 01:08 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Like I said at the time of the trade, people are going to see a bunch of 2nd assists, be fooled into thinking he's "producing/productive", and then confused at why the team loses relying on a guy like Kaberle. He was not the droid we were looking for then, and he's not the droid we're looking for now, no matter how "smart" getting him for Spacek can be made to look with pens and paper and such.

Yeah, I guess that's a big "I told ya so" to everyone who was seeing green pastures and sun-lit lanes lined with daffodils leading to the playoffs - while whistling/reciting all of Kaberle's past stats lines - when he was brought in.
Let's not pretend the reason we're losing is because we're relying on Kaberle too much.

Btw, never understood the problem with 2nd assists. Are they supposed to be irrelevant or something??

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01-11-2012, 01:31 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
That shouldn't be hard, teams are dying for 50pts d's. I hope Mr. Gauthier has double line on his phone
You're right and everybody else is wrong...Toronto had to give him away last year.

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01-11-2012, 01:34 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Habitant#1 View Post
Watching Kaberle makes me understand how the Leafs didn't make the playoffs for so many year. Can you imagine him as your #1D!? I used to think Markov was soft, but compared to Kaberle he's a warrior.
If you think Markov was soft you should simply retire your keybord and stop posting. The guy was the taget for all teams playing us for years because he was our best player, if he was osft he wouldn't have been a perennial all-star.

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