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Boyle and Prust Crucial Part of this Team?

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01-11-2012, 08:27 AM
  #1
jskramer83
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Boyle and Prust Crucial Part of this Team?

After really focusing on watching Brian Boyle play, I'm starting to think that he is extrememly important to the success of this team.

While his production is way down from last year, he does a lot of the little stuff right, and is always giving 110% effort . Also after watching 24/7 it really seems as if he is the personality of the locker room, and by that I mean it seems that both him and Prust seem to be the guys that everyone wants to be around, and the guys who keep everyone loose.

This is an attribute that is not measured on the score sheet, but is a vital cog, for every championship team.

Was wondering what everyone else thinks on this?

and if your response is going to be "he sucks because he scored 20 goals last year and has only a few this year"....

count to 10, and then if you still feel the need to post this, start a new thread in the main board!

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01-11-2012, 08:44 AM
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They should be playing together. Their forecheck was much better last year with Feds as the third guy.

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01-11-2012, 08:53 AM
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See your point, but don't agree. Boyle is pretty good along the boards, good on the FO, but is given way too much ice time. Prust average like 10 and Boyle about 14. Boyle in no way deserve more ice time than Prust, and should be kept off the PP (averaging 47 secs a game now might not sound like a lot, and it's true maybe we don't have anybody else to throw in because the top units can't be on all the time).

He doesn't use his size, although shot blocking has been good from time to time. Should do it more though.

I think it's partly Tort's fault. He seems to have a lot of faith in the guy, just as he has had with Dubi. Boyle is shooting way too much, while never scoring and seems to be an offensive liability due to this, messing up scoring chances. Having faith and patience with Dubinsky is of course the right thing, but not with Boyle.

We had the same discussion a few years back regarding Betts and even Orr, them doing the little things. Truth is, a lot of players can fill such a role on the 3rd and 4th lines, and neither Boyle nor Prust are anything special in that regard.

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01-11-2012, 09:17 AM
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Inferno
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The problem with our team right now is that our 3rd line is closer to being a 4th line than a 2nd line.

We'd be MUCH better off, imho, having someone like Wolski on the 3rd line than what we currently have.


Just my 2 cents.

I'd probably change the lines for next game and go with something like..

Hagelin - Stepan - Gaborik
Dubi - Richards - Cally
Mitchell - Anisimov - Wolski
Rupp/Prust/Boyle/Fedotenko/EC

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Old
01-11-2012, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
We'd be MUCH better off, imho, having someone like Wolski on the 3rd line than what we currently have.
Except that Wolski does not have the defensive abilities to play the bottom 2 lines. He uses his size less than Boyle and will not play the defensive board game as well.

As for changing the lines, I am not one for fixing things at a time that they do not need to be fixed. Sure the Gabby line has cooled off, but they can just as much heat up and I am not one to tinker for the need of tinkering.

When you really think about it, both Fedetenko and Hagelin have 6 goals apiece. If they double that, that is not such horrible production from 3rd liners. So long as the 3rd line chips in with an occasional goal, that is fine.

Both Rupp and Prust are good at the roles that they server from a 4th line prespective.

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01-11-2012, 09:46 AM
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While we'd all love more scoring from...well...everyone, our bottom 6 has been very good of late at cycling in the offensive zone. That puck possession wears down the opposing team and helps keep the puck out of our net.

Boyle assisted on our only goal last night and Prust had the primary assist on both of Rupps goals in the WC. Even if they aren't scoring with regularity, they are still finding ways to have an impact.

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01-11-2012, 09:50 AM
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Some people will only look at points but they are both very important.

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01-11-2012, 09:51 AM
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Good teams guys and solid role players, but they're hardly crucial. Boyle helps on faceoffs, Prust is good PKing, but Hagelin has also stepped up as a PKer and adds an offensive threat there. I don't think either one is leaving soon, but they're not crucial.

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01-11-2012, 09:55 AM
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Nice to see Boyle go out and level Morris the shift after Morris hipchecked Anisimov along the boards....

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01-11-2012, 09:59 AM
  #10
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Boyle is probably the least crucial part of this team..

He is a good team guy but those are a dime a dozen. He doesn't bring anything else, what good is size if he is terrible at using it for any type of advantage? More times then not he's the player falling to the ice.

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01-11-2012, 10:15 AM
  #11
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defensively yes, offensively noo. they should be playing together though, they forecheck well together along with feds imo. boyle was important offensively last year because he was producing but now all hes good for is a solid minute of holding the puck behind the net and winning battles along the boards. their both good role players but their not irreplaceable.

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01-11-2012, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
The problem with our team right now is that our 3rd line is closer to being a 4th line than a 2nd line.

We'd be MUCH better off, imho, having someone like Wolski on the 3rd line than what we currently have.


Just my 2 cents.

I'd probably change the lines for next game and go with something like..

Hagelin - Stepan - Gaborik
Dubi - Richards - Cally
Mitchell - Anisimov - Wolski
Rupp/Prust/Boyle/Fedotenko/EC

I'm with you Anisimov has been terrible. He should be centering the 3rd line, where he belongs. He's just not a 1st line guy.

Boyle is a 4th line player, and that's where he belongs. I love the above lines.

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01-11-2012, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
The problem with our team right now is that our 3rd line is closer to being a 4th line than a 2nd line.

We'd be MUCH better off, imho, having someone like Wolski on the 3rd line than what we currently have.


Just my 2 cents.

I'd probably change the lines for next game and go with something like..

Hagelin - Stepan - Gaborik
Dubi - Richards - Cally
Mitchell - Anisimov - Wolski
Rupp/Prust/Boyle/Fedotenko/EC
If we're trying to increase offensive production why are we reverting back to giving Mitchell more minutes? The guy has shown nothing offensively.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Aviary View Post
Good teams guys and solid role players, but they're hardly crucial. Boyle helps on faceoffs, Prust is good PKing, but Hagelin has also stepped up as a PKer and adds an offensive threat there. I don't think either one is leaving soon, but they're not crucial.
Quote:
Originally Posted by APuckHog View Post
Boyle is probably the least crucial part of this team..

He is a good team guy but those are a dime a dozen. He doesn't bring anything else, what good is size if he is terrible at using it for any type of advantage? More times then not he's the player falling to the ice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangerdanger20 View Post
defensively yes, offensively noo. they should be playing together though, they forecheck well together along with feds imo. boyle was important offensively last year because he was producing but now all hes good for is a solid minute of holding the puck behind the net and winning battles along the boards. their both good role players but their not irreplaceable.
There's obviously a few ways to look at this but I think if you don't understand the importance of the roles that Prust and Boyle play on and off the ice then you're understating their importance. Boyle has been brutal offensively this year and I'm one of his biggest critics, but that doesn't mean he's not a vital part of the team. Especially when you consider he's Torts' go to guy late in games defensively. You can't act like that isn't important. Unless of course it doesn't matter to you that if we give up late leads in games.

Prust's style of play and how he stands up for teammates is huge. Huge. There's a reason that Torts refers to him as becoming part of the core. He's a good fourth line player and he can make some plays in the offensive zone as well.

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01-11-2012, 10:41 AM
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Quality thread. Halfway through a season sitting at #1 and the following corrections have been suggested:

Breakup the 1st line.
Play Wolski.
Breakup our shutdown line and put our best defensive centre on the 4th line.

And we've also witnessed my favourite WTF Rangers fans complaint: 'Boyle doesn't use his size'.

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01-11-2012, 10:43 AM
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The Boyle hate right now is getting really overblown and is classic HF. He's not putting up numbers and isn't a speedster and it means he "absolutely sucks" and "isn't trying".

Nevermind his screen that created Feds' goal (that is called using your size). Nevermind him being the #1/2 faceoff guy on the team and that he's averaging 2.5 hits a game: hits that have become noticeably more impactful. When the going gets tight and the intensity ramps up (see Winter Classic) his defensive play and puck possession is extremely important. That is what you need to grind teams down in the playoffs.

Now I am not saying he is irreplaceable or that we can't upgrade - just that the hate is getting out of control.

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01-11-2012, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
The Boyle hate right now is getting really overblown and is classic HF. He's not putting up numbers and isn't a speedster and it means he "absolutely sucks" and "isn't trying".

Nevermind his screen that created Feds' goal (that is called using your size). Nevermind him being the #1/2 faceoff guy on the team and that he's averaging 2.5 hits a game: hits that have become noticeably more impactful. When the going gets tight and the intensity ramps up (see Winter Classic) his defensive play and puck possession is extremely important. That is what you need to grind teams down in the playoffs.

Now I am not saying he is irreplaceable or that we can't upgrade - just that the hate is getting out of control.
Agreed. It was Dubinsky when he wasn't scoring. People feel the 3rd line should be comprised of 40 point players. That is not the case on most teams. He is physical, PK's, good on face-offs and creates chances down low. He is the Rangers version of Paul Gaustad (Who is a very valuable player). 3rd/4th line player.

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01-11-2012, 10:58 AM
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FWIW Torts is giving Boyle plenty of ice time despite the fact that he's not producing numbers even close to last year's. And the team has been even a bigger success. Go figure. Last year's playoffs Boyle was like third in average ice time amongst the forwards despite not scoring any points. I don't know what kind of coach I would make but still Torts must be considering other things than offense--at least for certain players--when he doles out ice time.

Personally I don't think it's worth arguing about. The team is winning so as far as I'm concerned whatever he's doing is working.

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01-11-2012, 11:01 AM
  #18
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Agreed. It was Dubinsky when he wasn't scoring. People feel the 3rd line should be comprised of 40 point players. That is not the case on most teams. He is physical, PK's, good on face-offs and creates chances down low. He is the Rangers version of Paul Gaustad (Who is a very valuable player). 3rd/4th line player.
That and the instand shoveling of players to the bottom-2 lines after a cold period. In this case Anisimov. I agreethat bottom-2 line players are not necessarily all 40 point scorers. Detroit's Grind line was very valuable all of those years.

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01-11-2012, 11:04 AM
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Sean Aviary
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There's obviously a few ways to look at this but I think if you don't understand the importance of the roles that Prust and Boyle play on and off the ice then you're understating their importance. Boyle has been brutal offensively this year and I'm one of his biggest critics, but that doesn't mean he's not a vital part of the team. Especially when you consider he's Torts' go to guy late in games defensively. You can't act like that isn't important. Unless of course it doesn't matter to you that if we give up late leads in games.

Prust's style of play and how he stands up for teammates is huge. Huge. There's a reason that Torts refers to him as becoming part of the core. He's a good fourth line player and he can make some plays in the offensive zone as well.
Prust is similar to Langdon in how he's a fighter and a well-loved team guy, and he's better in his utility as a PKer, as well as being really strong on the boards and capable of tying up a good opposing line in their own zone. He will get re-signed this offseason, especially since he isn't going to command a huge paycheck.

Boyle is a go-to guy late because he's solid defensively and he's good on faceoffs. He's theoretically replaceable as a checking line center who can win faceoffs and PK, but he fits the team identity and he's signed for a few years.

That being said, neither is irreplaceable if they were to be out long-term due to injury, but they're a great part of the team now.

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01-11-2012, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by wr50l View Post
Quality thread. Halfway through a season sitting at #1 and the following corrections have been suggested:

Breakup the 1st line.
Play Wolski.
Breakup our shutdown line and put our best defensive centre on the 4th line.

And we've also witnessed my favourite WTF Rangers fans complaint: 'Boyle doesn't use his size'.
The worst one of these suggestions is playing Wolski.

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01-11-2012, 11:05 AM
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I think the rangers can do better than Boyle. But right now they are on a wondrous run and if it aint broke dont fix it.

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01-11-2012, 11:06 AM
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sure they are.......Prust is the light heavy weight champ of the world
He will be resigned for sure as his career went up in NY

Boyle same deal but he already has his deal. He's not a 20 goal scorer but he should be better than the handfull of goals he has now. He does do a good job in a checking line role and PK. Although people on this board seem to hate the guy sometimes. he is what he is a big body 3rd/4th liner

Both are important though. PK combo for example

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01-11-2012, 11:12 AM
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Sean Aviary
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
sure they are.......Prust is the light heavy weight champ of the world
He will be resigned for sure as his career went up in NY

Boyle same deal but he already has his deal. He's not a 20 goal scorer but he should be better than the handfull of goals he has now. He does do a good job in a checking line role and PK. Although people on this board seem to hate the guy sometimes. he is what he is a big body 3rd/4th liner

Both are important though. PK combo for example
Boyle isn't going to get the time to be a 20 goal scorer during the regular season, but knowing his ability to step up, he will be a huge asset to a playoff run. This is amplified by his size, and the fact that he isn't completely destroying guys with his size makes him more durable.

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01-11-2012, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
FWIW Torts is giving Boyle plenty of ice time despite the fact that he's not producing numbers even close to last year's. And the team has been even a bigger success. Go figure. Last year's playoffs Boyle was like third in average ice time amongst the forwards despite not scoring any points. I don't know what kind of coach I would make but still Torts must be considering other things than offense--at least for certain players--when he doles out ice time.

Personally I don't think it's worth arguing about. The team is winning so as far as I'm concerned whatever he's doing is working.

I think it's clear that Torts uses different tactics on different players. This is one reason I can't stand the constant "Torts holds players accountable" crap that people regurgitate over and over. Torts holds players accountable that he feels need to be held accountable. Other players he doesn't. You don't see him benching Ryan Callahan when he takes bad penalties. Torts picks and chooses. And I'm sure a lot of that has to do with how he thinks different players need to be coached. Boyle is a player that Torts believes in and it's clear that he hasn't reached the point with him yet where he feels the need to hold him accountable for his lack of offense, because of all the other things he brings. He's started showing the first sign of that hope waning with his comments about that line needing to step up offensively, and it's clear that Boyle has been spoken to about this because he even mentioned how he needs to produce to stay in the lineup at this point. Torts has had Boyle on a very long leash this season, different than he would have with a lot of other players (Feds as well), but he might be realizing his tactic hasn't been working and it's time to switch it up.

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01-11-2012, 11:14 AM
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I got to agree with Inferno that the Rangers right now are really lines 1A/1B, 4A/4B and it can become a problem. The way Hank is playing and the top two lines are generating offense (for the most part) seems to be masking the problem.

I'd say Prust is more valuable to the team than Boyle, but I like the energy Prust brings every game and he always plays within his element. I guess (in typical HF fashion I suppose) I'm a Boyle hater, but I wasn't a huge fan of his last year when he was putting up that 21 goal mirage of a season.

I think Boyle just doesn't have the right IQ in the offensive zone, but he's very valuable in his own end, problem is he's playing third line minutes instead of fourth line minutes.

Just look at the numbers...

Before last night he (Boyle) had gone 13 games without a point.
He's gone 21 games without a goal.
He has 2 goals in his last 55 games (dating back to last season including playoffs)
And 3 goals in his last 63 games (again dating back to last season including playoffs)

It was easy to be patient with Dubinsky while he was slumping because I truly believed his offensive game would be revived, with Boyle, I don't think he's slumping, I think this is his offensive game.

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