Ill preface this with saying I think theyre still pretty terrible but is this team really the softest in the league? I really dont think so personally.
Howard was getting run all the time, called the team out and next thing you know Commodore is playing every game. I know he isnt a great fighter but he is solid. With him in the lineup now the team knows a guy has their back and borderline scrapper types like Abdelkader and Ericcson have been playing tougher hockey with him.
The effect that one bigg, mean player can have on guys like that is pretty remarkable really.
The team has Commodore now who can fight light heavies.
Abdelkader who is an alright middleweight.
Ericcson could be the toughest if he would actually fight a bit more, he can take on the light heavies.
And even Bertuzzi is good for a scrap when he needs too just doesnt much since hes getting older.
I would say the habs and the lightning are definitely softer now that Commodore is playing regularly. And that the wings are on pretty even terms with the yotes and the hurricanes. If Brendan Smith got playing time it would help a lot too.
And yes the wings had back to back nights with fights which kind of got me thinking about where they stand in the league.
Wouldnt hurt the Wings to have a little fire power on thier roster. Maybe they can lure Aaron Downey to a 2 way or something, if he hasnt retired already.
Redwings are still the softest team in the league, not by much like in the previous seasons, but still sit at #1 imo.
If the one and only attribute that factors into being or not being soft is fighting? Sure they're soft. But fighting is easily the most meaningless attribute that factors into grit and toughness or whatever the hell you want to call it. Compete level, tenacity, whatever...
If the one and only attribute that factors into being or not being soft is fighting? Sure they're soft. But fighting is easily the most meaningless attribute that factors into grit and toughness or whatever the hell you want to call it. Compete level, tenacity, whatever...
Exactly. Datsyuk levels players with his checks. They aren't the rock 'em sock runs at guys. But anybody that comes after Datsyuk gets the shoulder and is knocked on their ass.
Id love for the red wings to have a fighter. But they dont, so thats life.
How ever they are far from the bottom when it comes to team toughness. They have 4-5 guys that can fight (Ericcson, Bertuzzi, Commodore, Abdelkader, Kindl has fought in the AHL pretty often but would be at the extreme bottom of the list). They have a crap ton of people who can hit.
You eliminate the 1 game a week goon from the Western Conference teams, and id put Detroit in the 3-7 range for physical play/toughness.
Wouldnt hurt the Wings to have a little fire power on thier roster. Maybe they can lure Aaron Downey to a 2 way or something, if he hasnt retired already.
Detroit hired him to be a strength and conditioning coach for the younger guys. He's still around in Detroit and Grand Rapids, just not on the ice.
I'd love to have a power forward/fighter but if he can't skate and score with his line it's pretty meaningless. A pure enforcer is outright detrimental on any team that actually uses four lines. The only teams that would use them are top-heavy 3 line teams. The 4th good line would play like 2-3 minutes a night just to intimidate some extra room for the real players. Even then it might not work. A first liner could get run by a Cooke-esque d-bag, take his beating with a smile, and the enforcer-laden team is still screwed.
One think that always bug me about this Detroit and not fighting mantra is that the anti-fighting brigade always uses Detroit as the shinning star of how fighting is not necessary. In doing so, they paint Detroit FANS as agreeing with them, when I have found this to be very far from the truth.
I have found that Detroit fans tolerate their current make up because it produces wins, but given the choice, would very much welcome a team that fought more. I remember a poll on a Detroit web site asking the fans their favorite memory of the wings long run the past 15 years. What won by a wide margin? The brawl vs. Colorado. So there is a long standing appreciation for fisticuffs amongst the fans.
Contrast that to Montreal, who I truly believe does not have any desire to have a tough team. They are always citing how they don't want to be a goon club like the Bruins and that the CH has always put skill ahead of goon like tactics.
So Detroit, I am rooting for you to get more fighters. Maybe as the pure goon is phased out, fighting will be emphasized more amongst every day players, and you will get your balance.
Redwings are still the softest team in the league, not by much like in the previous seasons, but still sit at #1 imo.
What makes the habs tougher than Detroit? Or the bolts for that matter? I just want to see why people think that because I see it enough and dont understand how Detroit is softer than those teams.
All will probably fight an equal amount, but Detroit has a lot more physical guys than either of those teams that will lay a huge hit on you as well.
My definition of hockey grit:
1.Hits
2.Takes hits to play puck.
3.Goes to front of net or corners.
4.Fights regulary, takes huge balls to do this. Enforcers dont have the hardest job in sports because they can take a check or slash...
5.Goes balls to the walls all the time.
Detroit
1.Abs (Cant spell his name)
2.Ericcson
3.Bertuzzi
4.Commodore
5.Kindl (Being very, very generous with this one)
6.Datsuk
7.Cleary
8.Holmstrom
9.Stuart
10.Smith
11.Kronwall
12. Ill even throw in Howard since he is the only who actually sticks up for the goaltender and doesnt skate around like a dumb****.
Tampa
1.Downie
2.Brewer
3.Malone
4.Kubina
5.Bergeron (Since Kindl is on there)
6.St. Louis
7.Lecavalier
8.Hall
9.Labrie
10.Ohlund
11.Thompson
12.Moore
Montreal
1.White
2.Blunden
3.Moen
4.Gill
5.Emelin
6.Georges
7.Gill
8.Subban
9.Cole
10.Gionta
11. Pacioretty
12. Heck Ill throw in Price too
All forms of grit included, all 3 are in a tie for softest. Now throw in actual fighting and fighting skill into the mix. MTL blows both of them out of the water, since fighting usually falls under "grit". Downie alone beats Detroit since he is the craziest player playing, and fights more then the entire team combined.
So in conclusion, Detroit is just as good as each team when fighting is not a factor. But only far reaching fans are taking fighting out of "grit" since Detroit loses a lot of ground when that comes into play.
My definition of hockey grit:
1.Hits
2.Takes hits to play puck.
3.Goes to front of net or corners.
4.Fights regulary, takes huge balls to do this. Enforcers dont have the hardest job in sports because they can take a check or slash...
5.Goes balls to the walls all the time.
Detroit
1.Abs (Cant spell his name)
2.Ericcson
3.Bertuzzi
4.Commodore
5.Kindl (Being very, very generous with this one)
6.Datsuk
7.Cleary
8.Holmstrom
9.Stuart
10.Smith
11.Kronwall
12. Ill even throw in Howard since he is the only who actually sticks up for the goaltender and doesnt skate around like a dumb****.
Tampa
1.Downie
2.Brewer
3.Malone
4.Kubina
5.Bergeron (Since Kindl is on there)
6.St. Louis
7.Lecavalier
8.Hall
9.Labrie
10.Ohlund
11.Thompson
12.Moore
Montreal
1.White
2.Blunden
3.Moen
4.Gill
5.Emelin
6.Georges
7.Gill
8.Subban
9.Cole
10.Gionta
11. Pacioretty
12. Heck Ill throw in Price too
All forms of grit included, all 3 are in a tie for softest. Now throw in actual fighting and fighting skill into the mix. MTL blows both of them out of the water, since fighting usually falls under "grit". Downie alone beats Detroit since he is the craziest player playing, and fights more then the entire team combined.
So in conclusion, Detroit is just as good as each team when fighting is not a factor. But only far reaching fans are taking fighting out of "grit" since Detroit loses a lot of ground when that comes into play.
My definition of hockey grit:
1.Hits
2.Takes hits to play puck.
3.Goes to front of net or corners.
4.Fights regulary, takes huge balls to do this. Enforcers dont have the hardest job in sports because they can take a check or slash...
5.Goes balls to the walls all the time.
All forms of grit included, all 3 are in a tie for softest. Now throw in actual fighting and fighting skill into the mix. MTL blows both of them out of the water, since fighting usually falls under "grit". Downie alone beats Detroit since he is the craziest player playing, and fights more then the entire team combined.
So in conclusion, Detroit is just as good as each team when fighting is not a factor. But only far reaching fans are taking fighting out of "grit" since Detroit loses a lot of ground when that comes into play.
I guess it depends on if you think amount of fighting is more important than ability to fight. The wings dont fight a lot but Commodore, Bertuzzi and Ericcson would easily have their way with Downie and Abdelkader would probably give him a good scrap.
I dont know how fighting makes MTL blow them out of the water though? Getting beat up in a line brawl against Boston doesnt make them tougher than anyone else and they rarely fight, Petteri Nokelainen is tied for their team lead in fights.
I dont think Detroit edges any of these teams in fighting really, because they dont fight enough but I do think they have guys that could easily scrap with these teams, I also think that Detroit is more physical than the other 2 outside of fighting which makes up for their lack of fighting majors
The Wings have been unable to repeat after Babcock got rid of any toughness left on the Wings. Teams like the Sharks can push them around and take runs as they wish in a playoffs series. Sure, they'll beat teams like Nashville and Phoenix, but I wouldn't bet on them to win another Cup any time soon.
I dont know how fighting makes MTL blow them out of the water though? Getting beat up in a line brawl against Boston doesnt make them tougher than anyone else and they rarely fight, Petteri Nokelainen is tied for their team lead in fights.
I never said MTL was good at fighting, I said they were better at it than Detroit. Detroit wont even put up a fight 90% of the time, MTL atleast showed up. Boston is the toughest team in the league, they would do that to many teams, probably half the league at this rate.
Detroit wont even put up a fight 90% of the time, MTL atleast showed up. Boston is the toughest team in the league, they would do that to many teams, probably half the league at this rate.
