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Boyle and Prust Crucial Part of this Team?

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Old
01-11-2012, 11:18 AM
  #26
OverTheCap
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I do think we need more offense out of the bottom 6 but Wolski is not the answer. He doesn't play a grinding style that is required of those lines.

Boyle has played well defensively but he has hands of stone. Torts said he wants him to contribute more offensively and Boyle is well aware that his spot could be in jeopardy if he doesn't:

Quote:
“I’m trying to score,” Boyle said. “I have to if I want to keep playing, especially now. I have no doubt in my ability that I can score. There’s a lot of hockey to be played.
Last night's game was a good start to build on. There are going to be games, like last night, where our top 6 doesn't score and we need contributions from our bottom 6. I never expected Boyle to replicate his 20 goal season but I did think he was capable of putting in at least 10.

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01-11-2012, 11:20 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Sean Aviary View Post
The worst one of these suggestions is playing Wolski.
I can understand the Wolski debate on both sides. Personally I don't think it really matters either way because I don't see Wolski being a big difference maker and if he's not play top 6 I don't think he's being put in a position to succeed. However, I also have no issue with Wolski replacing Mitchell. Because really, why would that matter? Speaking of replaceable players in this thread...sheesh. Wolski playing instead of Mitchell is no big deal to me, especially if he's on a line with Feds to help him defensively.

The main reason though I would be for Wolski getting back into the lineup is because MAYBE just MAYBE he can help the power play. He's got a ton of skill and when he's on the power play is where I think he can help us the most.

Then again, we'd have to actually get the power play SET UP for any of that to matter. Something we can't seem to freaking do.


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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
sure they are.......Prust is the light heavy weight champ of the world
He will be resigned for sure as his career went up in NY

Boyle same deal but he already has his deal. He's not a 20 goal scorer but he should be better than the handfull of goals he has now. He does do a good job in a checking line role and PK. Although people on this board seem to hate the guy sometimes. he is what he is a big body 3rd/4th liner

Both are important though. PK combo for example
I'd like to see Prust versus Pacquiao (however you spell it).

Prust might not win, but I'd be shocked if he got knocked out!

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01-11-2012, 11:21 AM
  #28
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I love the suggestion that good team guys are a dime a dozen and that makes Boyle replaceable. Not every good team guy is good in every locker room. The point is that Boyle is OUR team guy and therefore, shouldn't be replaced.

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01-11-2012, 11:26 AM
  #29
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Boyle must be a 4th liner for him to help this team. He will not score and I'm ok with that as long as he wins draws, blocks shots and works hard. But as a 3rd liner he is a detriment to this team and is taking a spot that could use a major upgrade. Put him back on the 4th line with Prust and Rupp and I am fine. This will also ensure that he gets the limited ice time he has earned. Right now he is holding Feds and Hags up; that line can score more, should score more and doesn't because of Brian Boyle.

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01-11-2012, 11:27 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by wr50l View Post
Quality thread. Halfway through a season sitting at #1 and the following corrections have been suggested:

Breakup the 1st line.
Play Wolski.
Breakup our shutdown line and put our best defensive centre on the 4th line.

And we've also witnessed my favourite WTF Rangers fans complaint: 'Boyle doesn't use his size'.
That's great and everything, but with scoring going down and opponents figuring us out, don't expect us to stay on top i we can't adapt to that. We do need more scoring from the bottom 6, and Anisimov is starting to show that he might not belong on the 1st line. He's with 0 pts in like 8 games, Stepan has 3 in the last 9. Gaborik has 1 point in last 6. Both Stepan and Gaborik has played well during that stretch, and I'm pretty sure Anisimov is the weak link, not just an ordinary slump.

Wolski IS a skilled guy, and nobody knows how he might play upon return, but to scratch him for the remainder of the season is not something I'd do.

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01-11-2012, 11:28 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Agreed. It was Dubinsky when he wasn't scoring. People feel the 3rd line should be comprised of 40 point players. That is not the case on most teams. He is physical, PK's, good on face-offs and creates chances down low. He is the Rangers version of Paul Gaustad (Who is a very valuable player). 3rd/4th line player.
Paul Gaustad is better than Brian Boyle in every tangible aspect of the game. He is tougher, has better hands and is a better guy on draws. The intangibles? I don't know. But these two guys should not be compared.

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01-11-2012, 11:46 AM
  #32
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Prust will be here after Boyle is gone.

As the prospects in the system mature, develope and grow, you are going to have guys that do what Boyle does AND have actual offensive talent.

You look at a guy like Fogarty. His size and ability will make Boyle an afterthought. Even a guy like JT Miller is going to make Boyle expendable.

The issue that we are dealing with in this instance is that for the money he is making, he's not a bad option, but he's also not a long-term option either.

We're doing well with the personel in place, but we have some veyr talented players coming up through the system that will force the Boyle's and the Mitchell's and the Fedotenko's of the team out the door.

I've excluded both Prust and Rupp from that because they each play a unique role on the team that we currently do not have in the system up front.

Had a feeling Boyle was not going to sniff 10 goals this year.

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01-11-2012, 11:50 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Paul Gaustad is better than Brian Boyle in every tangible aspect of the game. He is tougher, has better hands and is a better guy on draws. The intangibles? I don't know. But these two guys should not be compared.
I said he is the Rangers version of Paul Gaustad. Not that he is Paul Gaustad. He is used in the same ways.

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Old
01-11-2012, 12:00 PM
  #34
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Avery>>>>Prust.

Avery is a necessity for a playoff run. Look at a guy like Esa. Look at the 05-06 team...started losing once they traded Ville.

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01-11-2012, 12:03 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by jmb9191 View Post
Avery>>>>Prust.

Avery is a necessity for a playoff run. Look at a guy like Esa. Look at the 05-06 team...started losing once they traded Ville.
Tikkanen had 54 points in 1994. He was a MUCH better player than Avery.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...y.php?pid=5400

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01-11-2012, 12:16 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by jmb9191 View Post
Avery>>>>Prust.

Avery is a necessity for a playoff run. Look at a guy like Esa. Look at the 05-06 team...started losing once they traded Ville.
Wait, what? You're comparing Esa Tikkanen with Sean Avery? Are you kidding?

And then you're trying to say that Ville Niemenen was a key player?

What do you mean "started losing". We made the playoffs and get swept by the Devils because Jagr hurt his arm. Period. Niemenen was a garbage player. I couldn't stand him.

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01-11-2012, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Hightide85 View Post
Wait, what? You're comparing Esa Tikkanen with Sean Avery? Are you kidding?

And then you're trying to say that Ville Niemenen was a key player?

What do you mean "started losing". We made the playoffs and get swept by the Devils because Jagr hurt his arm. Period.
And Hank was seeing 3 pucks due to migraines.

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01-11-2012, 12:23 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Hightide85 View Post
Wait, what? You're comparing Esa Tikkanen with Sean Avery? Are you kidding?

And then you're trying to say that Ville Niemenen was a key player?

What do you mean "started losing". We made the playoffs and get swept by the Devils because Jagr hurt his arm. Period. Niemenen was a garbage player. I couldn't stand him.
Ville was important, just like Ramon Castro was to the Mets in 08 until they dealt him. I'm telling you, guys like that matter (good guys who the players like to be around.)

And yes i am comparing them, beacuse they do the same thing in taking the focus off the puck and putting it on them (see Kovalchuck trying to put Avery in the net instead of the puck during hte 07 sweep)

Rangers blew the division, they lost their last what, 8 games? They stunk down the stretch.

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01-11-2012, 12:33 PM
  #39
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He's a defensive center whether he scored 20 goals last year or not. He has been very good at his role, which is playing sound defense and getting rough with the other teams scorers, checking them as much as possible and wearing them down. That is what he does best and what he is counted on to do. Goals would be nice, but to say he's not scoring so he's useless or not doing his job is just incorrect IMO.

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01-11-2012, 12:36 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by jmb9191 View Post
Ville was important, just like Ramon Castro was to the Mets in 08 until they dealt him. I'm telling you, guys like that matter (good guys who the players like to be around.)

And yes i am comparing them, beacuse they do the same thing in taking the focus off the puck and putting it on them (see Kovalchuck trying to put Avery in the net instead of the puck during hte 07 sweep)

Rangers blew the division, they lost their last what, 8 games? They stunk down the stretch.
Nieminen important? He played for 7 different teams over the course of 7 years... He was constantly being shopped and traded.... He was not a good player....

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01-11-2012, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmb9191 View Post
Avery>>>>Prust.

Avery is a necessity for a playoff run. Look at a guy like Esa. Look at the 05-06 team...started losing once they traded Ville.
Here we go again?...Another thread that turns into a Avery-thread?

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01-11-2012, 01:41 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by APuckHog View Post
Boyle is probably the least crucial part of this team..

He is a good team guy but those are a dime a dozen. He doesn't bring anything else, what good is size if he is terrible at using it for any type of advantage? More times then not he's the player falling to the ice.
After reading this post, I was thinking some folks might benefit from watching the "behind the bench" video series.

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01-11-2012, 01:53 PM
  #43
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Crucial? No. Important? Absolutely. But that's just semantics.

The fact of the matter is that they are effective role players on an elite hockey team. They deserve their ice time, even with their lack of offensive production. Honestly, Boyle's struggles have been greatly exaggerated this season. He may not be finishing, but he is inarguably generating plenty of legitimate chances. I thin'kk he'll even out. His shooting % will increase, and I believe he can still be a 10-15 goal scorer. Just a matter of bounces.

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01-11-2012, 02:15 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Crucial? No. Important? Absolutely. But that's just semantics.

The fact of the matter is that they are effective role players on an elite hockey team. They deserve their ice time, even with their lack of offensive production. Honestly, Boyle's struggles have been greatly exaggerated this season. He may not be finishing, but he is inarguably generating plenty of legitimate chances. I thin'kk he'll even out. His shooting % will increase, and I believe he can still be a 10-15 goal scorer. Just a matter of bounces.
his struggles have not been exaggerated. He is terrible in the offensive zone. he generates almost nothing and he ruins almost all developing plays with his terrible instincts, nonexistent creativity and stone hands. He can play defense and that is valuable; ON THE 4th LINE.

Unless he gets a run of luck where pucks bounce in off his shin guard or he gets tap ins he will never score 10 goals again. He is a brutal offensive player. But that's not his role and Torts needs to move him to the 4th line where he belongs so he can expect offensive production from his entire top 9 forwards.

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01-11-2012, 03:34 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
his struggles have not been exaggerated. He is terrible in the offensive zone. he generates almost nothing and he ruins almost all developing plays with his terrible instincts, nonexistent creativity and stone hands. He can play defense and that is valuable; ON THE 4th LINE.

Unless he gets a run of luck where pucks bounce in off his shin guard or he gets tap ins he will never score 10 goals again. He is a brutal offensive player. But that's not his role and Torts needs to move him to the 4th line where he belongs so he can expect offensive production from his entire top 9 forwards.
This is what he was talking about when he said they've been exaggerated. How many times has Boyle said to himself "last year, that puck would've been in the net" this year? It's over 10, for sure. Even to the extent that, if things were going the same for him this year as last year, that Fedotenko shot would've gone off his stick before going in. As it was, he still created that opportunity. He had another opportunity he was scoring on last season last night too. I'm not excusing him. Chris Higgins was in much the same situation in his year here. Did that make him a bad offensive player? Not necessarily. Right now, with a shot of confidence and good linemates, Higgins is on pace for over 20 goals for the first time since he was in Montreal.

I do agree that Boyle does not need to be on the powerplay. This is just a syndrome of the whole league and many fans, who say "ooh, a big guy! Let's put him in front of the net on the powerplay!" To me, that's ridiculous. The best players at that aren't huge guys, just skilled guys with an ability to take a beating and while strong enough to get into the right position.... looking at Smyth and Holmstrom here.

It would be nice if Boyle started putting in some goals. Right now, I disagree that he's a detriment to this team in the offensive zone. I strongly disagree that he's "brutal."

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01-11-2012, 04:19 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
Some people will only look at points but they are both very important.
i agree, points as well as defensive play are both important.

Boyle has 9 points this season. thats 104th in the league AMONG CENTERS. that means every team in the league has at least 3 centers who are offensively better than Boyle, and a few have 4.

He needs to be an ELITE shut down center to justify 3rd line minutes. Does anyone consider him elite defensively? Good, sure. Elite? Not a chance.

He's a 4th liner receiving way too many minutes. Rangers need a better 3rd line.

Im happy with Boyle as a 4th line center. I dont think hes garbage or useless or whatever. he shouldnt be getting top 9 minutes. Hes not good enough in his own zone. Mitchell has produced at nearly the same level in 1/2 as many games. Im ok with him on the 3rd line. Hagelin is producing at a 45 point pace, which is great for a 3rd liner.

Brian Boyle, you are the weakest link, goodbye.

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01-11-2012, 04:20 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by ruckus View Post
I think it's clear that Torts uses different tactics on different players. This is one reason I can't stand the constant "Torts holds players accountable" crap that people regurgitate over and over. Torts holds players accountable that he feels need to be held accountable. Other players he doesn't. You don't see him benching Ryan Callahan when he takes bad penalties. Torts picks and chooses. And I'm sure a lot of that has to do with how he thinks different players need to be coached. Boyle is a player that Torts believes in and it's clear that he hasn't reached the point with him yet where he feels the need to hold him accountable for his lack of offense, because of all the other things he brings. He's started showing the first sign of that hope waning with his comments about that line needing to step up offensively, and it's clear that Boyle has been spoken to about this because he even mentioned how he needs to produce to stay in the lineup at this point. Torts has had Boyle on a very long leash this season, different than he would have with a lot of other players (Feds as well), but he might be realizing his tactic hasn't been working and it's time to switch it up.
FWIW--whenever Boyle and whatever linemates he has on a particular night are spending significant time in the offensive end of the ice crunching enemy defenses--whether they score or not they are making life miserable for the other team. That and the fact that he's fairly reliable defensively means he gets ice time. Noticed though from 24/7 that Torts sometimes gets really angry at Boyle and that Brian might just be one of those players that responds best to a kick in the ass instead of a pat on the shoulder.

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01-11-2012, 04:21 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
i agree, points as well as defensive play are both important.

Boyle has 9 points this season. thats 104th in the league AMONG CENTERS. that means every team in the league has at least 3 centers who are offensively better than Boyle, and a few have 4.

He needs to be an ELITE shut down center to justify 3rd line minutes. Does anyone consider him elite defensively? Good, sure. Elite? Not a chance.

He's a 4th liner receiving way too many minutes. Rangers need a better 3rd line.

Im happy with Boyle as a 4th line center. I dont think hes garbage or useless or whatever. he shouldnt be getting top 9 minutes. Hes not good enough in his own zone. Mitchell has produced at nearly the same level in 1/2 as many games. Im ok with him on the 3rd line. Hagelin is producing at a 45 point pace, which is great for a 3rd liner.

Brian Boyle, you are the weakest link, goodbye.
He has 70 shots on goal. Whereas last year the puck was going in for him--this year it's not. But it's not like he hasn't been getting chances.

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01-11-2012, 04:28 PM
  #49
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absolutley yes!!!!!!! There role players.There fantastci defensively,provide toughness and leadership and a great work ethic.Count on them in any situation there in. Plus there very likeable guys. All the great teams like Det and Dalas and Colorado and NJ had there Prusts and Boyle. They both are favorites of mine and hope to see them in Ranger sweaters for many more years to come.I would be happy with both for atleast another 3 years each.They are cost efficient 4th liners,worth every pennhy.Yeah,Im a big fan of these 2.

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01-11-2012, 04:35 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Personally I don't think it's worth arguing about. The team is winning so as far as I'm concerned whatever he's doing is working.
This is what many Jets fans were saying last year. Not that this team is as flawed as the jets were last year. But i think it always makes sense to look at ways to improve the team. Even if theyre winning. In this case, i dont advocate big changes. But nothing wrong with discussing it.

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