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Is Pronger really gone for the playoffs?

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Old
01-11-2012, 01:32 AM
  #26
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The information being given to us is essentially non existent regarding prongers condition, which it itself is not a good sign. In my opinion, his career is over. But then again, I wouldn't be that surprised if he did come back. Or at least make a good attempt to, but I highly doubt that would be as soon as this playoff season.

What I would like to see though, is pronger become some sort of a player development coach and help with coaching and grooming the defense. Like what hatcher does. Then again, I'm not exactly sure if pronger is that type of guy...

Maybe just give him Juan Castillos job...

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01-11-2012, 06:47 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
I doubt he's having that much trouble with "everyday activities". As I said earlier, he was seen getting on an airplane earlier today according to one of my friends from Temple... He actually posed for a picture w/ my friend and several other guys @ the airport. Here's one that made it's way to twitter:

http://instagr.am/p/gDGBt/

My friend asked him how he was doing and if there was a chance we'd see him in the playoffs and he Pronger smiled, winked, and walked away, so take it for what it's worth...

Everyone needs to keep calm and quit saying his career is over when they have no clue / no information.

Could Pronger's career / season be over? Sure, both could be over.

There is also a chance that Pronger is improving and that he will be ready for the playoffs. Nobody knows.

But I think it's entirely possible that he is indeed improving but Holmgren isn't telling anyone. I mean, why would he? It's in everyone's best interest to just tow the company line that Pronger is done for the season and there's no updates. That way, the media isn't whipped up into a frenzy, the players continue to know that it's on them to get the job done and Pronger won't be there to save the day, and if it does in fact work out that Pronger returns for the playoffs then it's a huge boost to the team and a great surprise for the fans.

If Holmgren works it correctly, Pronger being done till the playoffs could actually be a huge benefit for our team. With Pronger on LTIR, we pick up cap space and can acquire a more expensive player without moving any significant pieces. Once the playoffs come around though, there is no salary cap.

At any rate, I'm not saying he's coming back... I'm just saying that I have a hunch he's not done yet. And a comeback is certainly possible.
Interesting...I still think the Flyers are BSing just to keep the media away. Keep in mind that with this being a +35 contract, the league will be watching out for any attempt at cap circumvention. The Flyers will have to prove he's not capable of playing. This isn't a great situation for the Flyers because if he does want to play once healthy, the $5 million cap hit comes right back. If they do go out and get someone like Weber who gets $7 million a year, they'll have to make a ton of changes to shed salary.

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01-11-2012, 09:27 AM
  #28
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Yea. He and Lappy coming back for the playoffs...

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01-11-2012, 09:38 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
The information being given to us is essentially non existent regarding prongers condition, which it itself is not a good sign. In my opinion, his career is over. But then again, I wouldn't be that surprised if he did come back. Or at least make a good attempt to, but I highly doubt that would be as soon as this playoff season.

What I would like to see though, is pronger become some sort of a player development coach and help with coaching and grooming the defense. Like what hatcher does. Then again, I'm not exactly sure if pronger is that type of guy...

Maybe just give him Juan Castillos job...
I don't understand why you think that no news is bad news...

This organization has proven in the past that they like to be very secretive regarding player health... most teams do.

From Marc Staal's surprising comeback in the Classic (which the media didn't get wind of till gameday) to Pronger having a "virus" then a knee thing, then a concussion, etc.

It isn't in the Flyers best interest to update us on anything.

Say HYPOTHETICALLY that Pronger is making progress and there's a chance he makes it back for the playoffs. What does Holmgren's team gain from making that announcement publicly?

NOTHING

What are the risks?

1. When the team hears this, they will undoubtedly be excited. If Pronger in fact doesn't end up making it back, it will be a huge let down to the team. Likewise, when your star player goes down and players KNOW he's done for the season, it motivates them to step up (see Carle,Matt). If the team was updated that Pronger was making progress, would we see that same extra level of effort from everyone else?

2. The league is more likely to block a potential Flyers trade that uses all of the Flyers' LTIR space. If the Flyers say Pronger might be back for the playoffs (when there is no cap) but then make a trade that puts them over the salary cap in the hopes of having both players play in the playoffs, it seems like cap circumvention. It looks like we essentially stashed a star player on LTIR longer than necessary to get around the cap. I'm not saying the league would block anything, but there's a chance.

In short, what I'm saying is that Holmgren isn't stupid. He may make some questionable moves @ times, but he knows how to handle the media and use it to his advantage and it makes no sense (regardless of what's happening w/ Chris) to give updates on his condition.

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01-11-2012, 02:07 PM
  #30
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Correct me if I am wrong but the problem with putting players like pronger on the LTIR is that it is only available during the regular season? That is why the flyers had to wait until after the 1st game this season to put lappy on LTIR to get cap relief. Therefore Pronger's salary cap hit would count when the flyers are trying to make offseason trades or sign UFAs. So that's potentially $4.9 mil of dead money each offseason. Is that correct?

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01-11-2012, 02:10 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
I don't understand why you think that no news is bad news...

This organization has proven in the past that they like to be very secretive regarding player health... most teams do.

From Marc Staal's surprising comeback in the Classic (which the media didn't get wind of till gameday) to Pronger having a "virus" then a knee thing, then a concussion, etc.

It isn't in the Flyers best interest to update us on anything.

Say HYPOTHETICALLY that Pronger is making progress and there's a chance he makes it back for the playoffs. What does Holmgren's team gain from making that announcement publicly?

NOTHING

What are the risks?

1. When the team hears this, they will undoubtedly be excited. If Pronger in fact doesn't end up making it back, it will be a huge let down to the team. Likewise, when your star player goes down and players KNOW he's done for the season, it motivates them to step up (see Carle,Matt). If the team was updated that Pronger was making progress, would we see that same extra level of effort from everyone else?

2. The league is more likely to block a potential Flyers trade that uses all of the Flyers' LTIR space. If the Flyers say Pronger might be back for the playoffs (when there is no cap) but then make a trade that puts them over the salary cap in the hopes of having both players play in the playoffs, it seems like cap circumvention. It looks like we essentially stashed a star player on LTIR longer than necessary to get around the cap. I'm not saying the league would block anything, but there's a chance.

In short, what I'm saying is that Holmgren isn't stupid. He may make some questionable moves @ times, but he knows how to handle the media and use it to his advantage and it makes no sense (regardless of what's happening w/ Chris) to give updates on his condition.

Great post. I agree on all points...

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01-11-2012, 02:19 PM
  #32
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Serious question:

what would it take to replace Pronger/Timonen with Weber/Suter (assuming Suter goes to UFA)

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01-11-2012, 02:29 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
I don't understand why you think that no news is bad news...

This organization has proven in the past that they like to be very secretive regarding player health... most teams do.

From Marc Staal's surprising comeback in the Classic (which the media didn't get wind of till gameday) to Pronger having a "virus" then a knee thing, then a concussion, etc.

It isn't in the Flyers best interest to update us on anything.

Say HYPOTHETICALLY that Pronger is making progress and there's a chance he makes it back for the playoffs. What does Holmgren's team gain from making that announcement publicly?

NOTHING

What are the risks?

1. When the team hears this, they will undoubtedly be excited. If Pronger in fact doesn't end up making it back, it will be a huge let down to the team. Likewise, when your star player goes down and players KNOW he's done for the season, it motivates them to step up (see Carle,Matt). If the team was updated that Pronger was making progress, would we see that same extra level of effort from everyone else?

2. The league is more likely to block a potential Flyers trade that uses all of the Flyers' LTIR space. If the Flyers say Pronger might be back for the playoffs (when there is no cap) but then make a trade that puts them over the salary cap in the hopes of having both players play in the playoffs, it seems like cap circumvention. It looks like we essentially stashed a star player on LTIR longer than necessary to get around the cap. I'm not saying the league would block anything, but there's a chance.

In short, what I'm saying is that Holmgren isn't stupid. He may make some questionable moves @ times, but he knows how to handle the media and use it to his advantage and it makes no sense (regardless of what's happening w/ Chris) to give updates on his condition.
real talk.

Those moves are only "questionable" here on these forums...In the real world (and behind closed doors) the organization has a rationale for each of those moves, and understands a locker room/hockey season a lot better than the posters here.

See: Lilja, Andreas

Did Holmgren predict Pronger would get a concussion?
NO.

But he did prepare for it, and people here just dont get that.
(and for just 2 years @ $737,500)


Not nearly as big a signing as people made it out to be, and now its looking like a smart SAFE bet.

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01-11-2012, 02:46 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
real talk.

Those moves are only "questionable" here on these forums...In the real world (and behind closed doors) the organization has a rationale for each of those moves, and understands a locker room/hockey season a lot better than the posters here.

See: Lilja, Andreas

Did Holmgren predict Pronger would get a concussion?
NO.

But he did prepare for it, and people here just dont get that.
(and for just 2 years @ $737,500)


Not nearly as big a signing as people made it out to be, and now its looking like a smart SAFE bet.
I'm not sure if you've noticed, but Lilja is pretty terrible. Considering how well our rookies have performed (At least on par with him), it only makes Lilja's 2 year, 35+ contract look even worse. Instead of developing young talent, Homer decided to throw money at an old washed up player who we're stuck with for one season too long.

Signing Lilja had nothing to do with replacing Pronger if he went down. It had everything to do with replacing OD. At least, I really hope Holmgren isn't dumb enough to think the solution to "Pronger Gone" is "LILJA!"

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01-11-2012, 02:55 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
Serious question:

what would it take to replace Pronger/Timonen with Weber/Suter (assuming Suter goes to UFA)
it would take Kimmo retiring at the end of the year. His money would then go towards a Contract offer to suter.

NSH would match any contract offer for Weber so a sign and trade would have to be done. Something like Couturier plus 2 1sts

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01-11-2012, 03:11 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Reaper1097 View Post
Correct me if I am wrong but the problem with putting players like pronger on the LTIR is that it is only available during the regular season? That is why the flyers had to wait until after the 1st game this season to put lappy on LTIR to get cap relief. Therefore Pronger's salary cap hit would count when the flyers are trying to make offseason trades or sign UFAs. So that's potentially $4.9 mil of dead money each offseason. Is that correct?
That is correct, but teams are also allowed to exceed the cap by 10 percent in the offseason. Functionally, the Flyers lose that cushion. Not good, but not catastrophic either.

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01-11-2012, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
it would take Kimmo retiring at the end of the year. His money would then go towards a Contract offer to suter.

NSH would match any contract offer for Weber so a sign and trade would have to be done. Something like Couturier plus 2 1sts
that is, without taking into consideration that we'd most likely have to trade for suter's rights as well. because if nashville can't resign him, the chance of him making it to FA without the preds atleast getting SOMETHING for him by trading his rights is 0.

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01-12-2012, 05:30 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
That is correct, but teams are also allowed to exceed the cap by 10 percent in the offseason. Functionally, the Flyers lose that cushion. Not good, but not catastrophic either.
thats what I thought... thanks for reply...

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01-12-2012, 08:25 AM
  #39
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Pronger has been one of my fav defensemen for a long time, and I was thrilled when we got him.

But I think he is done and I wish him the best.

Weber would be my top choice bar none. Suter would work though.

Gleason? Bleh.

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01-12-2012, 10:09 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Pronger has been one of my fav defensemen for a long time, and I was thrilled when we got him.

But I think he is done and I wish him the best.

Weber would be my top choice bar none. Suter would work though.

Gleason? Bleh.
We arent asking Homer to bring in Gleason (or another defenseman) with the intension that he would replace Pronger. Gleason would be brought in solely for depth purposes and would more than likely walk at the end of the season.

Unless things drastically change, I don't see this team going deep into the playoffs. Goaltending and defensively we are way too inconsistent so I don't see the point of dishing out a lot for Suter this season.

Best case scenario would be to acquire Gleason (or whoever) without giving up too much, let him walk July 1st and then sign Suter (if he reaches free agency). Getting Weber would be great as well, but I don't see that happening since it would cost way too much and would require Timonen to retire after this season. It would be great if Weber only re-signed for another season and tested free agency in 2014 since we would have the cap space to go after him because Timonen is off the books then.

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