HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Boyle and Prust Crucial Part of this Team?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-11-2012, 05:36 PM
  #51
BlueshirtBlitz
Rich Nash
 
BlueshirtBlitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 19,033
vCash: 500
The problem with Boyle is that he should be on the 4th line. He doesn't bring offense, and while our bottom 6 has been good defensively due in part to guys like him we need to count on more games where they chip in.

BlueshirtBlitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2012, 05:52 PM
  #52
JeffMangum
Registered Ab-user
 
JeffMangum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Listening to music
Country: United States
Posts: 57,536
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
his struggles have not been exaggerated. He is terrible in the offensive zone. he generates almost nothing and he ruins almost all developing plays with his terrible instincts, nonexistent creativity and stone hands. He can play defense and that is valuable; ON THE 4th LINE.

Unless he gets a run of luck where pucks bounce in off his shin guard or he gets tap ins he will never score 10 goals again. He is a brutal offensive player. But that's not his role and Torts needs to move him to the 4th line where he belongs so he can expect offensive production from his entire top 9 forwards.
Oh, please. Talk about extreme exaggeration. A "brutal" offensive player does not score 22 goals playing 15 minutes a night. He's nothing special, but for a bottom-6 player, his offensive game is plenty adequate. It's simply a matter of balancing statistics. He has 70 SOG, and has 2 goals. It's not as if he doesn't take shots, he gets chances. This year, unfortunately, he's not getting ANY puck luck. Couple of good bounces, and he has 6/7 goals right now.

__________________
Everything about you is bringing me misery.
JeffMangum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2012, 05:54 PM
  #53
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
 
Tawnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 12,080
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Oh, please. Talk about extreme exaggeration. A "brutal" offensive player does not score 22 goals playing 15 minutes a night. He's nothing special, but for a bottom-6 player, his offensive game is plenty adequate. It's simply a matter of balancing statistics. He has 70 SOG, and has 2 goals. It's not as if he doesn't take shots, he gets chances. This year, unfortunately, he's not getting ANY puck luck. Couple of good bounces, and he has 6/7 goals right now.
It's not really even a matter of "good bounces" in the sense of him getting lucky. It's more of a matter of the "bad bounces" coming to an end.

Tawnos is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2012, 06:28 PM
  #54
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,176
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
He has 70 shots on goal. Whereas last year the puck was going in for him--this year it's not. But it's not like he hasn't been getting chances.
the puck has never gone in for him. he's not a good scorer. he never has been. its why many of us wanted to move him during the offseason when his value was at its highest ever.

hes a 4th liner. 4th liners dont score goals because they have feet for hands, like Boyle does. He works hard, seems like a good locker room guy, and like ive said a plethora of times, its not like i hate the guy and want him off the team. but he should NOT be on the 3rd line. he's a 4th liner. play him where he belongs.

Inferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2012, 06:35 PM
  #55
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,176
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Oh, please. Talk about extreme exaggeration. A "brutal" offensive player does not score 22 goals playing 15 minutes a night. He's nothing special, but for a bottom-6 player, his offensive game is plenty adequate. It's simply a matter of balancing statistics. He has 70 SOG, and has 2 goals. It's not as if he doesn't take shots, he gets chances. This year, unfortunately, he's not getting ANY puck luck. Couple of good bounces, and he has 6/7 goals right now.
Boyle scored 18 goals in a VERY, VERY lucky 50 game stretch last year. The other 179 games he's played in have yielded a grand total of 17 goals...that's an 8 goal per season average. For a 3rd liner, that's frikkin putrid. 3rd liners should score at least 12-14 goals a season...a 3rd line like Matt Cooke scores at least that much every year, and thats despite spending seemingly 10% of his games in the box or suspended.

Brian Boyle is a solid 4th liner. Hes an awful 3rd liner. Im not sure how anyone can reasonably argue otherwise, except for taking that 50 game sample from last year where he was Aaron Voros like.

Inferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2012, 06:39 PM
  #56
JeffMangum
Registered Ab-user
 
JeffMangum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Listening to music
Country: United States
Posts: 57,536
vCash: 500
Boyle does not have "stone hands". He's a pretty bad puck handler in traffic, but he's a solid carrier of the puck, has decisive speed, and a good shot, particulary his snap and backhand shots. He's got an excellent release.

Just because he has struggled as of late does not make him an anemic offensive player. Even with the 2 goals, you cannot deny that he has had plenty of good to great chances...he's just struggled with his finishing. Just as Dubinsky has. A ~4% shot percentage is abnormal even for a 3rd/4th line forward. if he takes 140-160 shots, he'll score 10ish goals a season.

I'm not expecting anything tremendous. I think the expectations for him after his season last year has clouded judgment on his overall play this season.

JeffMangum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2012, 06:56 PM
  #57
BlueshirtBlitz
Rich Nash
 
BlueshirtBlitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 19,033
vCash: 500
But he's struggled offensively for his entire career, sans for the first half of last season.

BlueshirtBlitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2012, 07:11 PM
  #58
Pizza
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,059
vCash: 500
As others have mentioned he still falls too much. Other than that, Boyle is a very effective player for the Rangers right now. His scoring from last season will probably never be duplicated, but that's not his role anyway. Last season was gravy. What you should have with him is a fundamentally solid player, coachable player who chips in 6 - 12 goals a year. Solid on the PK. Good at taking the puck down low and holding it there. Uses his size in front of the net. Will never hesitate to defend a team mate but is a terrible fighter.

He's a reliable grinder who's very tight with his team mates and very good in the room. All in all a net positive for the team.

Prust is basically all of the above with some what less goal scoring potential and better balance on his skates. He's obviously a much superior fighter when needed.

Edit: ...And yes, I think they are both crucial to the team right now.

Pizza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2012, 07:12 PM
  #59
JeffMangum
Registered Ab-user
 
JeffMangum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Listening to music
Country: United States
Posts: 57,536
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
But he's struggled offensively for his entire career, sans for the first half of last season.
He's a very sporadic offensive player. In his short stints with the Kings, he put up solid numbers. He had that mediocre 09-10 season (when I say mediocre, I mean one of the most ineffective seasons I've ever seen from a Ranger), and then played very well last year.

Again...is he not getting chances? The answer is no, he IS getting chances. He simply has struggled to finish. This isn't 09-10 Boyle. He's a solid bottom-6 center who can put up solid offensive totals, but is getting NO luck or good bounces.

I don't think he's an ideal 3rd line center...but he is not hurting the team at all, like some are trying to portray.

JeffMangum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2012, 09:38 PM
  #60
Leetch66
Registered User
 
Leetch66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: PEI Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,177
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
As others have mentioned he still falls too much. Other than that, Boyle is a very effective player for the Rangers right now. His scoring from last season will probably never be duplicated, but that's not his role anyway. Last season was gravy. What you should have with him is a fundamentally solid player, coachable player who chips in 6 - 12 goals a year. Solid on the PK. Good at taking the puck down low and holding it there. Uses his size in front of the net. Will never hesitate to defend a team mate but is a terrible fighter.

He's a reliable grinder who's very tight with his team mates and very good in the room. All in all a net positive for the team.

Prust is basically all of the above with some what less goal scoring potential and better balance on his skates. He's obviously a much superior fighter when needed.

Edit: ...And yes, I think they are both crucial to the team right now.
Great description on what Boyle brings to the table !!! I think the line about him defending teammates is what makes him so popular on the team . You don't have to win fights...just holding on helps a lot and Boyle does that quite well with his reach . He also does throw some good hits along the boards and I think we all know that the defending Dmen speed up their plays when they see him coming in on them . Definitely have to keep him around for the rest of the season and I have no problem if it is on the 4th line .

Leetch66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2012, 09:41 PM
  #61
BlueshirtBlitz
Rich Nash
 
BlueshirtBlitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 19,033
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
He's a very sporadic offensive player. In his short stints with the Kings, he put up solid numbers. He had that mediocre 09-10 season (when I say mediocre, I mean one of the most ineffective seasons I've ever seen from a Ranger), and then played very well last year.

Again...is he not getting chances? The answer is no, he IS getting chances. He simply has struggled to finish. This isn't 09-10 Boyle. He's a solid bottom-6 center who can put up solid offensive totals, but is getting NO luck or good bounces.

I don't think he's an ideal 3rd line center...but he is not hurting the team at all, like some are trying to portray.
I'm not arguing he's as bad as 09-10 Boyle, that Boyle wasn't even a good NHLer in any regard. He's a good 4th liner, but I just think he's proved he's NOT a 3rd liner this season

BlueshirtBlitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2012, 10:09 PM
  #62
Stepanformayor*
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 581
vCash: 500
Ive been saying the last 2 year's these 2 are 2 of the most underated players in hockey IMO for what they mean to their team. I also don't believe we would be sitting atop the standings where we are without these 2 guys. Prust has more guts than most players iv'e ever watched.. Boyle takes too much heat.. 20 goals was a fluke for sure, but every player has a role that's what makes a team and IMO he plays his as good as anyone in hockey.

Stepanformayor* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2012, 08:45 AM
  #63
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,770
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
But he's struggled offensively for his entire career, sans for the first half of last season.
Not true. Boyle's first season in the AHL, he had 31g and 31a. He has legitimate offensive talent.

NYR Viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2012, 08:55 AM
  #64
Bardof425*
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,028
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
He has 70 shots on goal. Whereas last year the puck was going in for him--this year it's not. But it's not like he hasn't been getting chances.
Not every shot is a chance. He can keep the puck behind the net; agreed. 4th line because he doesn't know what to do when the puck is suddenly in front of the net.

Bardof425* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2012, 09:50 AM
  #65
True Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 15,091
vCash: 500
It is not an annoited task that the 3rd line contain 40 point scorers. One of the staples of the Detroit teams was the Grind line. Draper, Maltby & McCarty. Draper hit 40 points once and a few more times in 30's. Maltby hit the 30 point plateau twice, and is NOT what some one would characterize as a points player. And let's not discuss the offensive capabilities of Darren McCarty. But the players served a role and did it very well.

The bottom 2 lines need not be for the forwards that are left out of the top-6. The bottom 2 lines have roles that teams that want to win, need to be filled. The current bottom 2 lines are filling those roles.

True Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2012, 10:53 AM
  #66
3Four3
Registered User
 
3Four3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 660
vCash: 500
I think Boyle would be better off gaining 10-20 lbs. in muscle. He worked on his skating and all he needs is to bulk up his frame.

When he goes in for the hit, you'll know we can expect a BOOM!

3Four3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2012, 10:54 AM
  #67
Bardof425*
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,028
vCash: 500
I think we all agree that Brian Boyle is likely great in the room and a character guy. I think we also agree (with varying degrees of enthusiasm) that he is a good defensive player. However, we need to stop this defense of his offensive abilities.

To this point the discussion has focused on his goal scoring abilities which except for a spurt last fall has been putrid. He is a center. Let's discuss his ability to distribute the puck and create scoring opportunities for others. I challenge anyone to find evidence within the last two seasons of Brian Boyle passing the puck to one of his teammates who then shot the biscuit passed the goaltender. if you find one instance I will be surprised, two; amazed.

His assists (12 all of last year I believe) and his 7 this year are mostly of the "the puck bounces off someone to a linemate who scores" variety. He can move the puck behind the net but once it moves above the goal line he can not, does not, has not set up his teammates for goals. The other night he received an assist on a play where the puck hit him shoulder high which created confusion and he was able to get in front where Feds threaded the needle and hit twine.

And for everyone who speaks of his big body; that works along the boards and in the d-zone blocking shots and passes. But he rarely is planted in front because he is easy to knock off his feet and truthfully he just doesn't go there often. He typically participates in the cycle below the goal line until the other team gets the puck and then skates out of the zone on a backcheck.

Earlier I said his offensive abilities were brutal. That isn't the correct description. In writing this I gave it more thought and "atrocious" is a better description. Show me the assists that required anything more than him being in the offensive zone and I will apologize.

Bardof425* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2012, 10:56 AM
  #68
Bardof425*
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,028
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Not true. Boyle's first season in the AHL, he had 31g and 31a. He has legitimate offensive talent.
No he doesn't. Not even close. geez. Watch the games. We all like him. But credit where it is due and reality always.

Bardof425* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:52 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.