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GM 44: Canucks def. Lightning - 5-4 (SO) (Edler, Hansen, Malhotra, Kesler)

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Old
01-11-2012, 02:16 PM
  #151
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I love Raymond but its pretty obvious he doesn't work well with Kesler. He just hold onto the puck for way too long! Can't wait till Booth is back!

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01-11-2012, 05:39 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
But will he continue to draw those penalties on the Canucks where the refs are reluctant to give the #1 PP more power play opportunities?
It's tough to say. I also don't think discipline will be as big an issue for Downie as he gets older. As players mature they usually manage their emotions a bit better. But if discipline wasn't a problem I don't think Tampa would move him, and if they did their would be a TON of teams pursuing him IMO.

If the Canucks bring in a forward it should be someone tough that gets good results 5 on 5. There are already a lot of guys that kill penalties and upgrading the 1st or 2nd PP unit isn't a big priority either, though Downie could serve as a net presence there. Last year in the regular season and playoffs combined Downie had 38 even strength points in 74 games averaging around 14:00 a game. That is fantastic 5 on 5 production...

I don't see anyone else out there as tough as Downie that could have the same impact with the minutes we have to give. His combination of skill and abrasiveness is difficult to find and teams rarely ever let these players go.

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01-11-2012, 05:41 PM
  #153
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Both AV and Gillis were on the TEAM 1040 today.

http://www.teamradio.ca/news/alain-v...h-on-team1040/

Nothing much of note, but looks like MG has his eye on some guys at the Trade Deadline.

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01-11-2012, 05:45 PM
  #154
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Nothing much of note, but looks like MG has his eye on some guys at the Trade Deadline.
You would have to think it's toughness he's after. There's already an abundance of skill, it's not goaltending and if he's going to stick with Keith Ballard I doubt much will be added on defense.

Moen will likely be one of his top targets IMO but I doubt he's willing to move a 2nd rd pick for him. The fact our 3rd will be so late probably makes that a tough deal to close.

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01-11-2012, 05:58 PM
  #155
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anyone mooching over schneider allowing 4 goals on 31 shots is just stupid. And then people saying they would rather keep schneider over luongo....just there is no cure for that stupidity.

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01-11-2012, 06:07 PM
  #156
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anyone mooching over schneider allowing 4 goals on 31 shots is just stupid. And then people saying they would rather keep schneider over luongo....just there is no cure for that stupidity.
I don't think Schneider was that good in this outing. Can't blame him at all on the 2nd goal (he got pushed by Vinny) and the 4th one (bounces) but he should've had the 3rd one, where the puck snuck through his shoulder - that would be the kinda goal where people would still be tearing Luongo for. Made lots of nice saves when the Canucks were caught flat-footed, though.

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01-11-2012, 06:07 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by slickfox007 View Post
anyone mooching over schneider allowing 4 goals on 31 shots is just stupid. And then people saying they would rather keep schneider over luongo....just there is no cure for that stupidity.
Basing an opinion of Schneider's 4 goals against on 31 shots without actually watching the game is also kind of stupid.

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01-11-2012, 07:18 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by slickfox007 View Post
anyone mooching over schneider allowing 4 goals on 31 shots is just stupid. And then people saying they would rather keep schneider over luongo....just there is no cure for that stupidity.
Watching games is for squares

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01-11-2012, 07:25 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
You would have to think it's toughness he's after. There's already an abundance of skill, it's not goaltending and if he's going to stick with Keith Ballard I doubt much will be added on defense.

Moen will likely be one of his top targets IMO but I doubt he's willing to move a 2nd rd pick for him. The fact our 3rd will be so late probably makes that a tough deal to close.
Would be dumb not to get a bonified top 4 defenceman pushing Rome and Alberts down the chart.

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01-11-2012, 07:25 PM
  #160
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Basing an opinion of Schneider's 4 goals against on 31 shots without actually watching the game is also kind of stupid.
I'd say it's true though. Luongo would not be hearing the same praises as Schneider has after this game.

Hell, Luongo gets torn to shreds after Marchand scores in the Boston game.

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01-11-2012, 07:43 PM
  #161
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I'd say it's true though. Luongo would not be hearing the same praises as Schneider has after this game.

Hell, Luongo gets torn to shreds after Marchand scores in the Boston game.
1) When the team doesn't play well and Luongo is in the net, we lose the game 100% this season.

2) He does get praised in the stretch in which he played well and by a lot of people. The "type" praises he got is arguably the "same" type Schneider has received all season. You seem to fail to see that for some reason.

3) Who actually has "torn Luongo to shreds" with comments if we lose/win the game when the team in front of him played badly this season or when he lets in a goal that is clearly good play by the other team?

4) On what occasions was Luongo " torn to shreds" by comments? Hint: It is games in which the team in front of him played well enough to win.

5) Schneider does get criticized when he doesn't play well.

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01-11-2012, 08:21 PM
  #162
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Would be dumb not to get a bonified top 4 defenceman pushing Rome and Alberts down the chart.
Not if the asking prices are absurd, which they usually are for top 4 dmen at the deadline.

If there's not a good move to be made to upgrade the defense I think you look to bring in a quality top 9 forward. Strengthening the forward group just makes the job of the dmen that much easier. Look how effective the Bruins are with 4 strong lines. Even when Chara's not on the ice and they have underwhelming guys like McQuaid, Ference and Boychuk they are still very difficult to score on because the puck is always deep in the attacking zone.

As good as the top 9 forward group is you have to assume at least one of those guys will be out for the majority of the games. Adding another Higgins would be worth the relatively low cost IMO.

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01-11-2012, 08:45 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
You would have to think it's toughness he's after. There's already an abundance of skill, it's not goaltending and if he's going to stick with Keith Ballard I doubt much will be added on defense.

Moen will likely be one of his top targets IMO but I doubt he's willing to move a 2nd rd pick for him. The fact our 3rd will be so late probably makes that a tough deal to close.
So you're totally fine with having Sulzer, Rome playing in the top 4?

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01-11-2012, 08:46 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Not if the asking prices are absurd, which they usually are for top 4 dmen at the deadline.

If there's not a good move to be made to upgrade the defense I think you look to bring in a quality top 9 forward. Strengthening the forward group just makes the job of the dmen that much easier. Look how effective the Bruins are with 4 strong lines. Even when Chara's not on the ice and they have underwhelming guys like McQuaid, Ference and Boychuk they are still very difficult to score on because the puck is always deep in the attacking zone.

As good as the top 9 forward group is you have to assume at least one of those guys will be out for the majority of the games. Adding another Higgins would be worth the relatively low cost IMO.


Downie for Schneider is still a no go for me. MG has all but eliminated the idea of moving Schneider at the deadline anyways. There are a couple issues with Downie:


1. Can you trust his production? He had a great ES year last year, but this year he's on pace for 34 points (15min of ice). Raymond can get you 40 on a bad year, and he's essentially what you'd be replacing with Downie. I doubt he pushes Raymond down the depth chart.


2. Who do you give up for him? If Schneider is off the table, the only likely piece to be moved is Raymond. Would you do a Raymond for Downie swap?


3. He seems... not right in the head. Do you think he would be a fit in the room? Philly moved him, and they covet this type of player. If Tbay moves him, then you have to question what it is that you're getting. If his skill-set is so in demand, why is he getting moved twice at 24 yrs of age?





Moen will be too rich to acquire IMO. He's having a career year, but is a 4th liner. If I guy like him is what MG wants, there's Chris Thorburn in WPG. Moen is perhaps a tough more skilled, but CT is locked in for 2 more years and has no qualms in dropping the gloves. He'd be a better target IMO. Also have to figure in Byron Bitz. He may still be a factor later in the season.

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01-11-2012, 08:50 PM
  #165
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While Salo is out, I'd kind of like to try

Hamhuis-Ballard
Edler-Bieksa

Pairings for just a couple shifts. Hamhuis could really help cover for Ballard, and Bieksa and Edler are big physical guys that can do some damage.

Just a thought.

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01-11-2012, 09:04 PM
  #166
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While Salo is out, I'd kind of like to try

Hamhuis-Ballard
Edler-Bieksa

Pairings for just a couple shifts. Hamhuis could really help cover for Ballard, and Bieksa and Edler are big physical guys that can do some damage.

Just a thought.
I don't know. After Bieksa's sloppy showing in the TBay game, and Edler's abomination in the Boston game, I'd be reluctant to switch things up with these guys too much. Bieksa already walks a fine line of consistency. Anything adding to his propensity for boneheaded plays is playing with fire in my opinion. (What was he doing when he essentially passed the puck to the TBay player from behind his net?!) I really wish AV would sit Bieksa sometimes. Not for the whole game, but after a couple of those braindead plays in the Tampa game, he deserves a bit of tough love from the coaching staff. I wonder if AV ever lays into his own guys like Tortorella. I think Bieksa would respond well to that. I just get the impression that he has a free pass here.

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01-11-2012, 09:24 PM
  #167
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I think the scoring coming from our goaltending is an issue that needs to be addressed this trade deadline. These guys keep letting in the softies, I say they should do the hard work and even things up. Skate to centre ice and let the other goalie have it from there.

If they don't do this, ship their lazy buttocks out of town for goalies that can get shots on net from centre. Our goalies must score AND never let in weak goals. We will have the ultimate team.

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01-11-2012, 09:26 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
You would have to think it's toughness he's after. There's already an abundance of skill, it's not goaltending and if he's going to stick with Keith Ballard I doubt much will be added on defense.

Moen will likely be one of his top targets IMO but I doubt he's willing to move a 2nd rd pick for him. The fact our 3rd will be so late probably makes that a tough deal to close.
Salo's out and they could really use an upgrade on that bottom pairing.

Could use a big forward who can score at a decent pace.

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01-11-2012, 09:28 PM
  #169
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So you're totally fine with having Sulzer, Rome playing in the top 4?
Why would they play in the top 4?

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01-11-2012, 09:38 PM
  #170
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I'd say it's true though. Luongo would not be hearing the same praises as Schneider has after this game.

Hell, Luongo gets torn to shreds after Marchand scores in the Boston game.
Luongo gets torn to shreds when he doesn't even play.

Luongo fans are just as happy to jump on Schneider when he looks shaky or let's in a softie. Luongo also gets a lot of props when he has a good game. So this "poor Luongo is so mistreated" thing really isn't as pervasive as a lot of people like to make out. He has a handful of primarily loud detractors, virtually everyone else is at least reasonable about their criticisms.

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01-11-2012, 09:48 PM
  #171
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So you're totally fine with having Sulzer, Rome playing in the top 4?
With how little cap space the Canucks have it's going to be difficult to bring in a decent dman without moving Ballard. Another team isn't going to move a top 4 defenseman that is making $2mil... Few sellers, many buyers... - which is actually why moving Ballard makes sense. If Gillis can get half decent value for him and bring in someone better suited for that role, like Gleason, I think it's a smart move.

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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
2. Who do you give up for him? If Schneider is off the table, the only likely piece to be moved is Raymond. Would you do a Raymond for Downie swap?


3. He seems... not right in the head. Do you think he would be a fit in the room? Philly moved him, and they covet this type of player. If Tbay moves him, then you have to question what it is that you're getting. If his skill-set is so in demand, why is he getting moved twice at 24 yrs of age?
Downie likely can't be had for Raymond. You would have to think Schneider would get it done but what if Ballard interests them? Tampa's defense is thin and Ballard's improved to the point where he's definately moveable IMO.

The part about Downie being a poor teammate, it would be a deal breaker. Due diligence there for sure.

Isn't it usually around the 300 game mark or the 4th season that most players take the largest step in prodcution? Downie is sitting around 250 games played, has been over a half PPG player up to this point and shoots 15%. 14 points and a +7 in 17 playoff games.

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Old
01-11-2012, 10:45 PM
  #172
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If Gillis doesn't add a right-side D-man by the deadline then if Salo gets hurt in the playoffs the Canucks are done. That is a scary situation to be in if a Cup is the only goal. Always been a huge Salo fan, but his presence in the lineup should be a luxury at this point in his career, not a necessity.

Doesn't have to be a legit top four guy. Just someone who is truly comfortable on the right side. To me that is really the only priority come playoff time. Be nice to dump Alberts at the same time, so there is no danger of him playing for the Canucks in the playoffs this time around. Hope to hell they don't waste assets on 'toughness'.

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