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Old
01-13-2012, 07:58 AM
  #26
dats81
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
Bryzgalov apologists, take note of what a starting goalie is supposed to look like
Let's wait and see if Bob can put together more than 2 strong games in a row before we declare him our starter for the playoffs. We all know how this ended up last year...

Personally, I don't care who starts and who rots on the bench as long as this team wins. Maybe we can have a similar situation as Boston where Tim Thomas turned it around and won a Vezina the season after everyone thought that he lost it to Rask for good.

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01-13-2012, 08:12 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by dats81 View Post
Let's wait and see if Bob can put together more than 2 strong games in a row before we declare him our starter for the playoffs. We all know how this ended up last year...

Personally, I don't care who starts and who rots on the bench as long as this team wins. Maybe we can have a similar situation as Boston where Tim Thomas turned it around and won a Vezina the season after everyone thought that he lost it to Rask for good.
Bob was a rookie last season who did (does) not speak English. We should expect him to improve as he has with at least his stickhandling. What happened in last year's playoffs should not be expected again IMO. Further, his save % wasn't created on the past two games. Bottom line is Bob has outplayed Bryz by far.

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01-13-2012, 08:44 AM
  #28
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Played well all season long for the most part. Did give up a few iffy goals. I think he is improving. I like stick handling. His positioning is better in SO.

He is coming along.

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01-13-2012, 09:20 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by dats81 View Post
Let's wait and see if Bob can put together more than 2 strong games in a row before we declare him our starter for the playoffs. We all know how this ended up last year...

Personally, I don't care who starts and who rots on the bench as long as this team wins. Maybe we can have a similar situation as Boston where Tim Thomas turned it around and won a Vezina the season after everyone thought that he lost it to Rask for good.
Did i miss where in his post it said anything about playoff starter?

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01-13-2012, 10:12 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by pjb5064 View Post
My issue is that you made Bryzgalov the #1 by giving him the money and years, yet you aren't treating him like a #1 at all.
initially, i felt that way, too. but now, I think it's better to show him that if you play well, you get time. [and we pick up points in the standings, too]

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01-13-2012, 10:48 AM
  #31
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Who's starting against Nashville? Bryz, what a freakin' joke, been carrying this slug on one of my teams all year. I can't even trade him, he's that bad. The guy has got to step it up. The fact that he may not even get a start this week is alarming. Obviously the coaching staff is losing patience. How can you blame them? I'd hate this guy if I was Philly fan. He should never tell a joke or try to be funny until he's at least playing average NHL backup quality hockey. He's got a long way to go to get his numbers to those stanards. In the meantime, he should be a hockey robot who only plays, practices, works out, eats healthy and rests/sleeps. I hope you guys are booing the hell out of him.

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01-13-2012, 10:56 AM
  #32
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Couldnt find a better place to post this... what would you guys be looking for in return for Leighton? Would McKenna (1-way AHL contract, to replace Leighton) straight up do it? Obviously the benefit here for PHI is saving money. If thats not enough, add a pick? Would you want a goalie at all? Sens need a backup upgrade.

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01-13-2012, 10:58 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by dats81 View Post
Let's wait and see if Bob can put together more than 2 strong games in a row before we declare him our starter for the playoffs. We all know how this ended up last year...
What happened in the playoffs last year was a knee-jerk reaction to years of goalie troubles. Bob played well all year and what happened with goaltending in the playoffs was a coaching abomination.

First game: Flyers lose 1-0. Certainly not Bob's fault.
Second game: Bob gets three quick goals scored on him in the first period and gets pulled. Makes sense.

At this point, panic sets in and the ridiculous Boucher/Leighton tandem pushes Bob, the man who was their solid #1 all year, aside for two whole weeks, shattering his confidence.

By the time he sees the net again, it's only to relieve Boucher three times in a row in losing efforts.

Finally, the Flyers realize their decisions on goaltending were a trainwreck and opt to make Bob the starter, but it's too late. He lets in three goals and the series against the Bruins is over.

Anyone objectively looking at this situation should realize they screwed up big time not going back to Bob. And I'm not making these observations in hindsight – I couldn't believe they did this last year.

To top it off, they fail to give Bob the chance yet again this year and sign a goalie to a Dipietroesque deal that is seriously handcuffing the team.

Brutal coaching, brutal management. Brutal situation.

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01-13-2012, 11:00 AM
  #34
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Yeah, I've been saying since Laviolette got hired, terrible move. The guy can't manage himself out of a paper bag.

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01-13-2012, 11:03 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
Couldnt find a better place to post this... what would you guys be looking for in return for Leighton? Would McKenna (1-way AHL contract, to replace Leighton) straight up do it? Obviously the benefit here for PHI is saving money. If thats not enough, add a pick? Would you want a goalie at all? Sens need a backup upgrade.
I am confused, you actually want Leighton? Does not compute.

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01-13-2012, 11:11 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
Couldnt find a better place to post this... what would you guys be looking for in return for Leighton? Would McKenna (1-way AHL contract, to replace Leighton) straight up do it? Obviously the benefit here for PHI is saving money. If thats not enough, add a pick? Would you want a goalie at all? Sens need a backup upgrade.

maybe it would be best to start a 'what would you guys be looking for in return for Leighton?' thread. seriously

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01-13-2012, 11:12 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam View Post
What happened in the playoffs last year was a knee-jerk reaction to years of goalie troubles. Bob played well all year and what happened with goal tending in the playoffs was a coaching abomination.

completely agree that they messed up by only giving Bob 4? periods of hockey before pulling the plug

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Old
01-13-2012, 11:17 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by pjb5064 View Post
You do just starta goalie because he makes big bucks. The longer this goes on, the bigger the problem becomes. Bryz wasnt just a great goalie who is going to suck forever... let him get his confidence back now. For those arguing for bobrovsky, youre crazy... he was basically traded when we signed bryz. They will wait until he reaches his max value before his contract is up and he is gone. It sucks but its going to happen. Good luck trying to trade bryz.... see the problem? Start Bryz now and let him get better.

I see your point about as a coach you start the best goalie. I agree bob has been better, but as a coach you have to think of the future and bryz is it. We signed him, and thats that. Bryz will get back to his old ways.
You play to win NOW. That is how the team has always managed. You dont go and give up games to make a goalie feel better about himself. Right now, Bob is giving the team chances to win, and you play that. How do you think the rest of the team feels seeing Breezy give up these terrible goals and we continue to lose games 5-4, 4-3. Even Timonen said that we wont go anywhere this season if the games continue like that.

Bob is playing better than Breezy is right now. He is giving the team a chance to win. Im not going to give up points and lower the rest of the teams moral because of how much our other goalie is making.


Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Yeah, I've been saying since Laviolette got hired, terrible move. The guy can't manage himself out of a paper bag.
Lavy makes mistakes like every other coach. Lavy has been a great coach for this team. Pretty much turned them around since the John Stevens days. Unless we go on a 10game losing stream (like Stevens did) or have a season from hell, Lavy wont be going anywhere for awhile.

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Old
01-13-2012, 11:46 AM
  #39
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BOB's last 10 games played INDOORS (with normal ice conditions, normal backdrop, etc.):

33/35 saves, WIN
35/36 saves, WIN
24/26 saves, WIN
30/31 saves, WIN
16/17 saves (in relief of Bryz), no decision
28/31 saves, WIN
3/3 saves (in relief of Bryz), no decision
30/32 saves, LOSS
23/24 saves, WIN
23/23 saves (in relief of Bryz), WIN


Overall during last 10 games: 7-1, 2 no-decisions, 245 saves on 258 shots, .9496 SAVE PERCENTAGE

This isn't some 2 game thing... he has been dominant for the better part of the season save for one outdoor game where everything (sight lines, the ice, the sun, etc.) is different.

He deserves to be the starter at this point. PERIOD.

And anyone who says Bryz needs more time, needs to be given another chance because we paid him 51 million, etc. YOU NEED A LESSON IN "SUNK COSTS".

Bryzgalov is a sunk cost. We paid him already. There's nothing we can do about it. But you cannot let past expenditures affect future decisions... ask any reasonably successful person in business about this. All you can do is make effective decisions for your team/organization going forward. Thus if Bob is the better goalie then you 100% start Bob, no questions asked. Money cannot and should not play a factor. If it does, then I'd question Homer / Laviolette's capacity to be in charge of a team.

Sunk costs is a concept you learn pretty much day 1 in any reasonably good business school. A GM and a coach of a major sports franchise should know this concept well.

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01-13-2012, 11:51 AM
  #40
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Bob has been playing unreal, when he is on his game this guy looks like a top5 goalie. Bryz has **** the bed on the majority of his opportunities, and even though the team D has sucked, he really hasn't upped his game to counter that. A guy getting paid that kind of money needs to stand on his head and win games. If the new CBA does have some kind of amnesty clause, I think I know the first person I'd use that on.

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01-13-2012, 12:03 PM
  #41
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Bob's under contract for another season after this, and given the cluster**** that is the Bryzgalov situation, he should not be moved under any circumstances. Then again, if the team is confident that Niko Hovinen can come over for next season and be a capable backup/spot starter, trading Bob in the offseason for valuable assets is a move I'd probably be willing to make. Though reluctantly.

The unfortunate reality is that Bob's gone no matter what after next season when he's a free agent (assuming Bryz is still here, which he will be barring anything other than some kind of amnesty clause in the new CBA). It'll be absolute torture watching him develop into a consistent #1 goalie for another team.

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01-13-2012, 12:12 PM
  #42
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Bob's under contract for another season after this, and given the cluster**** that is the Bryzgalov situation, he should not be moved under any circumstances. Then again, if the team is confident that Niko Hovinen can come over for next season and be a capable backup/spot starter, trading Bob in the offseason for valuable assets is a move I'd probably be willing to make. Though reluctantly.

The unfortunate reality is that Bob's gone no matter what after next season when he's a free agent (assuming Bryz is still here, which he will be barring anything other than some kind of amnesty clause in the new CBA). It'll be absolute torture watching him develop into a consistent #1 goalie for another team.
If Bryz has another flighty season next year at the outset then the Flyers should just own up to their oopsie and buy him out or trade him and pay half his salary if need be. Getting rid of Bob who could turn out to be the legit number 1 we've always been looking for just b/c Bryz has a big contract is beyond idiotic. Snider is a business man who knows when to cut his losses.....they were bold with Carter and Richards who actually provided some added value..no reason they can't do the same with Bryz.

Anyway...I'm willing to give Bryz a get out of jail card for this season but if he doesn't start putting together the type of efforts Bob had last night and most of the season then we need to be bold and consider parting ways no matter how much it costs us. Like somebody said..he's a sunk cost...in business... situations like Bryz are factored into their bottom lines..cost of doing business.

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01-13-2012, 12:17 PM
  #43
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We might see him in the playoffs. He'll be recalled because he won't have to clear waivers and his cap hit won't count. If the Flyers end up playing like crap and Lavi goes into panic mode again, I fear we'll see him in orange and black.
I might be wrong here, but I believe that waivers are still in effect for the playoffs. We looked into recalling Gauthier when we were hit by injuries on d the year he was down in the AHL, but decided against it for that reason iirc. Last year we had both Walker and Leighton go through recall though, but that might have been just before the playoffs began, can't quite remember the timing of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
Couldnt find a better place to post this... what would you guys be looking for in return for Leighton? Would McKenna (1-way AHL contract, to replace Leighton) straight up do it? Obviously the benefit here for PHI is saving money. If thats not enough, add a pick? Would you want a goalie at all? Sens need a backup upgrade.
You'd still have to try to get Leighton through recall waivers after the trade. Is it really worth the risk for you? I'd see if the Islanders are willing to deal Nabokov instead. Maybe Roloson from Tampa. Sure, he's got ****** stats this year, but he'd bring some nice playoff experience for you guys. Maybe Ellis from Anaheim? There are a few more logical options than Leighton, I mean. If you'd like to send us something for him, I'm sure we could work out a deal though...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam View Post
What happened in the playoffs last year was a knee-jerk reaction to years of goalie troubles. Bob played well all year and what happened with goaltending in the playoffs was a coaching abomination.

First game: Flyers lose 1-0. Certainly not Bob's fault.
Second game: Bob gets three quick goals scored on him in the first period and gets pulled. Makes sense.

At this point, panic sets in and the ridiculous Boucher/Leighton tandem pushes Bob, the man who was their solid #1 all year, aside for two whole weeks, shattering his confidence.

By the time he sees the net again, it's only to relieve Boucher three times in a row in losing efforts.

Finally, the Flyers realize their decisions on goaltending were a trainwreck and opt to make Bob the starter, but it's too late. He lets in three goals and the series against the Bruins is over.

Anyone objectively looking at this situation should realize they screwed up big time not going back to Bob. And I'm not making these observations in hindsight – I couldn't believe they did this last year.

To top it off, they fail to give Bob the chance yet again this year and sign a goalie to a Dipietroesque deal that is seriously handcuffing the team.

Brutal coaching, brutal management. Brutal situation.
Yeah, what happened in the playoffs last year was really bizarre. I wonder what really happened there, it was so strange the way Bobrovsky fell from clear number one goalie to not even being on the bench from one game to another.

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01-13-2012, 12:31 PM
  #44
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Yeah, what happened in the playoffs last year was really bizarre. I wonder what really happened there, it was so strange the way Bobrovsky fell from clear number one goalie to not even being on the bench from one game to another.
Maybe Bob told them he was lost in the woods in an alien universe populated by attractive dogs with blue eyes, and the coaches went "whoa!, sit down... you're having a breakdown!"

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01-13-2012, 12:40 PM
  #45
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Couldnt find a better place to post this... what would you guys be looking for in return for Leighton? Would McKenna (1-way AHL contract, to replace Leighton) straight up do it? Obviously the benefit here for PHI is saving money. If thats not enough, add a pick? Would you want a goalie at all? Sens need a backup upgrade.


We can negotiate if the pail necessarily needs the handle, but I won't go higher than a 5th rounder if so.

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01-13-2012, 03:06 PM
  #46
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The thing I like about Bobrovsky, is he's still improving. Anyone who doesn't see the adjustments he has made in his game - isn't watching. He handles the puck better, he stays on his feet longer and he plays the game more aggressive - there are still growing pains, and that is to be expected. He's a young kid, and has potential - whereas his counterpart has reached his maximum potential, albeit playing well underneath it. If this organization had any foresight and patience, we would not have signed someone to such a long-term contract like Bryzgalov.

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01-13-2012, 03:26 PM
  #47
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And anyone who says Bryz needs more time, needs to be given another chance because we paid him 51 million, etc. YOU NEED A LESSON IN "SUNK COSTS".

Bryzgalov is a sunk cost. We paid him already. There's nothing we can do about it. But you cannot let past expenditures affect future decisions... ask any reasonably successful person in business about this. All you can do is make effective decisions for your team/organization going forward. Thus if Bob is the better goalie then you 100% start Bob, no questions asked. Money cannot and should not play a factor. If it does, then I'd question Homer / Laviolette's capacity to be in charge of a team.

Sunk costs is a concept you learn pretty much day 1 in any reasonably good business school. A GM and a coach of a major sports franchise should know this concept well.
By saying he is a "sunk cost" you are saying he is done. You really think Bryzgalov will continue to suck for 9 years? You are freaking crazy to be honest. I love how everyone watches 25 starts from a goalie and he is now the worst goalie ever and can never turn it around. ****ing Martin Brodeur has looked like the worst goalie at times in his career... oh right hes the best goalie to ever play the game.

After saying that... someone might say, oh well Brodeur was good but he was more a product of the teams defensive style... Okay you can say that but you can't say Bryzgalov's bad play is the product of a teams poor defensive style?

Bryzgalov will steal games for this team but obviously he isn't there yet. You got him to solve the goalie problems and just because he has some issues in the first few months, you completely give up on him?! SUNK COST is the dumbest argument there is for this situation. You do this with a goalie like Bob, who has played good in his short career, but it is just that... short. If he sucks for a length of time, you give up on him. Bryz was brought here for a reason, and he will deliver on it, mark my words. Look around the league and see all the stories of goalies being great, sucking and then coming back to greatness. All of these in the midst of a backup trying to take over.

Start Bryzgalov now and get his confidence up, because I'm sorry, it is not about winning games now (unless you think we are Stanley cup bound this year). It is about the next 8 seasons and having a goalie ready for them. You really want to spot start him this year and have him come into next season with the same situation. That is ****ing waste of money and it's unacceptable.

That said, I understand you sit him to prove a point, but I'm pretty sure he gets the point. The guy is hard on himself and if you don't know that by now you're crazy. People argue that he "doesn't try hard enough." I'm sorry but he isn't Bob... He is a position goalie... someone who needs to be square to the shooter and control rebounds. All of these things come with confidence. People look at that and think hes lazy, but hes not going to be doing splits and crazy stick saves diving across the crease.

Start Bryz.

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01-13-2012, 03:32 PM
  #48
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The thing I like about Bobrovsky, is he's still improving. Anyone who doesn't see the adjustments he has made in his game - isn't watching. He handles the puck better, he stays on his feet longer and he plays the game more aggressive - there are still growing pains, and that is to be expected. He's a young kid, and has potential - whereas his counterpart has reached his maximum potential, albeit playing well underneath it. If this organization had any foresight and patience, we would not have signed someone to such a long-term contract like Bryzgalov.
Ed Snider wants _________, and he wants it NOW!

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01-13-2012, 03:35 PM
  #49
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Start Bryzgalov now and get his confidence up, because I'm sorry, it is not about winning games now (unless you think we are Stanley cup bound this year). It is about the next 8 seasons and having a goalie ready for them. You really want to spot start him this year and have him come into next season with the same situation. That is ****ing waste of money and it's unacceptable.

That said, I understand you sit him to prove a point, but I'm pretty sure he gets the point. The guy is hard on himself and if you don't know that by now you're crazy. People argue that he "doesn't try hard enough." I'm sorry but he isn't Bob... He is a position goalie... someone who needs to be square to the shooter and control rebounds. All of these things come with confidence. People look at that and think hes lazy, but hes not going to be doing splits and crazy stick saves diving across the crease.

Start Bryz.
You dont start him for the hell of it. It is not how sports work. You play the person who is playing better. Its called rewarding a player. It's a team game for a reason, and hurting the other players on the team just because of how much you pay one guy will not make this team win in the future. What kind of message does that show to everyone else if you continue to play a guy who he himself has said is playing bad? Its like you are giving them a free pass to play bad. I can assure you that if that mentality comes into play, this team will be drafting in the top 5 for some years.

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01-13-2012, 03:35 PM
  #50
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Ed Snider wants _________, and he wants it NOW!
You can say what you want about that mentality, but its the reason the Flyers rarely suck. 1 bad season in how many years?

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