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so maybe it was not all Bryz's fault vs OTT

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Old
01-13-2012, 11:31 AM
  #1
Bernie Parent 1974
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so maybe it was not all Bryz's fault vs OTT

watch the goals here, especially goal #3


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01-13-2012, 12:01 PM
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not sure what ur seeing but OTT. looked dam good there..

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01-13-2012, 12:03 PM
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Meh...not all Bryz's fault but he hasn't set himself apart all year for the most part. What I deduced from this and the games we played vs Ottawa is that we should have gone after Anderson when he was available...

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01-13-2012, 12:13 PM
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Few of the losses this year can be put on Bryzgalov as the reason. However, it may as well have been written on his mega-contract that the Philadelphia Flyers organization hereby expects him to be solid as a rock, bail out an often porous defense, make the occasional other-worldly save, and generally be very, very good. To date, Bryzgalov has not done so, and the game-tying goal by Karlsson is, unfortunately, all too common a goal allowed by our alleged long-term G solution.

The difference between Bryz and Lundqvist is that soft goals are much more the exception for the latter than the former. Incidentally, please note that Lundqvist stopped the initial shot on goal #3.

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01-13-2012, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Few of the losses this year can be put on Bryzgalov as the reason. However, it may as well have been written on his mega-contract that the Philadelphia Flyers organization hereby expects him to be solid as a rock, bail out an often porous defense, make the occasional other-worldly save, and generally be very, very good. To date, Bryzgalov has not done so, and the game-tying goal by Karlsson is, unfortunately, all too common a goal allowed by our alleged long-term G solution.

The difference between Bryz and Lundqvist is that soft goals are much more the exception for the latter than the former. Incidentally, please note that Lundqvist stopped the initial shot on goal #3.
I like this thread. Bryz has been a GREAT (better than good) goalie everywhere else he has played.

Bob is playing better but Bob is having to steal games from teams like the Islanders. Bryz's below-average play and Bob having to stand on his head show a common denominator - a problem with the D or the system or both.

We cannot let our goalies be subject to shooting galleries and odd man rushes and expect that they can continuously save our butts.

AND - we need to not ruin Bryz. Clearly he was a huge asset when we got him here, and it looks like we are going to turn him into a goalie with no confidence and a constant target.

Nabby and Vokoun had their issues in the beginning of the season but are both coming to form. We made it clear to Bob that he wasnt ready (so NOT ready that we got a goalie for 9 years!) and we made it clear to Bryz that he was our starter.

We have managed to go back on both of those things - dont know that the choices we are making between the pipes (and have been since 2007) are going to produce cup-capable goalies.

Change the system - it's like without Pronger we don't dictate the pace of the game anymore, instead we chase it and then lose steam.

Slow it down instead of "jamming" all the time - the NYR and bruins are playing so well because of a defensively dominant game/system. We will barely hang with the southeast teams in the playoffs with the system we are using now.

Also - regardless of what you all say - GET RID OF CARLE!

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01-13-2012, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyersMania2 View Post
I like this thread. Bryz has been a GREAT (better than good) goalie everywhere else he has played.

Bob is playing better but Bob is having to steal games from teams like the Islanders. Bryz's below-average play and Bob having to stand on his head show a common denominator - a problem with the D or the system or both.

We cannot let our goalies be subject to shooting galleries and odd man rushes and expect that they can continuously save our butts.

AND - we need to not ruin Bryz. Clearly he was a huge asset when we got him here, and it looks like we are going to turn him into a goalie with no confidence and a constant target.

Nabby and Vokoun had their issues in the beginning of the season but are both coming to form. We made it clear to Bob that he wasnt ready (so NOT ready that we got a goalie for 9 years!) and we made it clear to Bryz that he was our starter.

We have managed to go back on both of those things - dont know that the choices we are making between the pipes (and have been since 2007) are going to produce cup-capable goalies.

Change the system - it's like without Pronger we don't dictate the pace of the game anymore, instead we chase it and then lose steam.

Slow it down instead of "jamming" all the time - the NYR and bruins are playing so well because of a defensively dominant game/system. We will barely hang with the southeast teams in the playoffs with the system we are using now.

Also - regardless of what you all say - GET RID OF CARLE!
I second your point about the team becoming, as a whole, a lot more defensively responsible. I watched long stretches of the Blues - Canadiens game on Tuesday, and the Blues' game was a thing of beauty: hard, relentless forechecking, creating chances with simple passes and good puck decisions, but when the Canadiens broke out or even when the puck was in the neutral zone, the Blues were there in numbers. They were poised and well positioned in their own zone, and routinely exited their zone efficiently and with speed.

Yes, the Flyers are near the top of the league in scoring, but it appears to be at the expense of playing sound defense. There's no reason why these have to be mutually exclusive.

On the other hand, I disagree with your point about the Flyers mishandling Bryzgalov. He has to pull himself together and play like he can. I approve of Laviolette sitting him because the primary objective is to win games. Right now, that objective is more attainable with Bob in nets. Bryz, and only Bryz, can change that.

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01-13-2012, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
I second your point about the team becoming, as a whole, a lot more defensively responsible. I watched long stretches of the Blues - Canadiens game on Tuesday, and the Blues' game was a thing of beauty: hard, relentless forechecking, creating chances with simple passes and good puck decisions, but when the Canadiens broke out or even when the puck was in the neutral zone, the Blues were there in numbers. They were poised and well positioned in their own zone, and routinely exited their zone efficiently and with speed.

Yes, the Flyers are near the top of the league in scoring, but it appears to be at the expense of playing sound defense. There's no reason why these have to be mutually exclusive.

On the other hand, I disagree with your point about the Flyers mishandling Bryzgalov. He has to pull himself together and play like he can. I approve of Laviolette sitting him because the primary objective is to win games. Right now, that objective is more attainable with Bob in nets. Bryz, and only Bryz, can change that.
I agree he should be benched when he plays poorly and the goalies should be rewarded when they play well BUT, after one bad game or a loss, we bench goalies. It isn't so black and white, i dont think. He should be accountable for his poor play BUT he needs a few opportunities to ride out his confidence issues and bad games - most teams that sign goalies to contracts like this will give them that. Fleury had a bad start a few years back so they let him get his head on straight then played him for a stretch so he could smooth out his difficulties.

We need to let Bryz get a good 5 or so games in the net - I know points are important but the only way our D will adapt to a goalie is if they are used to that goalie. Having to switch back and forth and not smooth out the holes in their game isn't letting anyone adapt.

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01-13-2012, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyersMania2 View Post
I agree he should be benched when he plays poorly and the goalies should be rewarded when they play well BUT, after one bad game or a loss, we bench goalies. It isn't so black and white, i dont think. He should be accountable for his poor play BUT he needs a few opportunities to ride out his confidence issues and bad games - most teams that sign goalies to contracts like this will give them that. Fleury had a bad start a few years back so they let him get his head on straight then played him for a stretch so he could smooth out his difficulties.

We need to let Bryz get a good 5 or so games in the net - I know points are important but the only way our D will adapt to a goalie is if they are used to that goalie. Having to switch back and forth and not smooth out the holes in their game isn't letting anyone adapt.
I don't completely disagree, but Bryzgalov has had some strings of starts already. That being said, Laviolette will have to play him for multiple games to give him the opportunity to show improvement. Laviolette, however, is a "hot hand" coach, so this would arguably be at the expense of Bob coming back down to earth.

As for Fleury, he stank at the same time the Penguins stank, and had no chance to make the playoffs. One could cynically argue that Fleury helped the Penguins get Malkin and Crosby.

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01-13-2012, 12:56 PM
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not sure what ur seeing but OTT. looked dam good there..
exactly. and Bryz got alot of criticism when he played against them. I know HL is playing much better than Bryz is, but if Bryz gave up those last 2 goals, he'd be hanging on a cross by now. in my view, Bryz played no worse than HL vs OTT this week

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01-13-2012, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Few of the losses this year can be put on Bryzgalov as the reason. However, it may as well have been written on his mega-contract that the Philadelphia Flyers organization hereby expects him to be solid as a rock, bail out an often porous defense, make the occasional other-worldly save, and generally be very, very good.
Exaclty, we're paying Bryz to steal us some games and he hasn't done that.

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01-13-2012, 01:11 PM
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my beef with bryz isn't that he's really played THAT terrible this season, aside from a few games. his defense has left him out to dry on many, many occasions, and it's no secret that they for some reason play tighter in fron of bob that they do in front of bryz.

bryz has had some games where he's looked great, but too often he has games where he fails to come up with a big save. or he has games where he looks great, and then lets in a really bad goal that completely negates the work he did to precede it. now, that's not to say that those saves he failed to come up with weren't on goals that he could have been said to have no chance on. but that's what this organization payed bryz for. to be the type of goaltender who can steal games for you and come up with those saves. those big momentum swinging saves that completely rob the other team of a goal. more than frequently has bob come up with those type of saves instead of bryz, and we're left using the "well bryz's defense screwed him over there, not really his fault" excuses.

now i don't know if it's a matter of getting used to the system played here, i don't know if bryz's numbers were merely a product of phoenix's system, but it's alarming. more often than not, does it seem like bryz gives up in the crease. he spots a cross ice pass or a player not marked and kind of packs it in. that's an issue for a goaltender who plays a largely position based style. he's not a fast athletic goalie like bob, he's a big framed goalie who has to cut off angles and get himself in position to make stops.

but what irks me the most about bryz is he seems unable to take anything seriously. he seems to turn everything in an act or a sarcastic comedy routine. he says hes upset and lost in the woods and put's on this show like he's really concerned, but then seldom does anything to correct it. i kind of saw something like this happening when before the season started, when he was telling the media how he doesn't feel pressure from playing hockey and that he doesn't let hockey affect his mental state or something. that's not really what i want to hear. that indicates that he just doesn't care enough about what he's doing.

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01-13-2012, 01:16 PM
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my beef with bryz isn't that he's really played THAT terrible this season, aside from a few games. his defense has left him out to dry on many, many occasions, and it's no secret that they for some reason play tighter in fron of bob that they do in front of bryz.

bryz has had some games where he's looked great, but too often he has games where he fails to come up with a big save. or he has games where he looks great, and then lets in a really bad goal that completely negates the work he did to precede it. now, that's not to say that those saves he failed to come up with weren't on goals that he could have been said to have no chance on. but that's what this organization payed bryz for. to be the type of goaltender who can steal games for you and come up with those saves. those big momentum swinging saves that completely rob the other team of a goal. more than frequently has bob come up with those type of saves instead of bryz, and we're left using the "well bryz's defense screwed him over there, not really his fault" excuses.

now i don't know if it's a matter of getting used to the system played here, i don't know if bryz's numbers were merely a product of phoenix's system, but it's alarming. more often than not, does it seem like bryz gives up in the crease. he spots a cross ice pass or a player not marked and kind of packs it in. that's an issue for a goaltender who plays a largely position based style. he's not a fast athletic goalie like bob, he's a big framed goalie who has to cut off angles and get himself in position to make stops.

but what irks me the most about bryz is he seems unable to take anything seriously. he seems to turn everything in an act or a sarcastic comedy routine. he says hes upset and lost in the woods and put's on this show like he's really concerned, but then seldom does anything to correct it. i kind of saw something like this happening when before the season started, when he was telling the media how he doesn't feel pressure from playing hockey and that he doesn't let hockey affect his mental state or something. that's not really what i want to hear. that indicates that he just doesn't care enough about what he's doing.
Precisely. And now he's being PAID, so what incentive does he have to care? If hockey wasn't a real passion for Bryz before getting this mega contract, it certainly won't be now.

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01-13-2012, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
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The difference between Bryz and Lundqvist is that soft goals are much more the exception for the latter than the former.
correct, my point was that OTT isn't chopped Liver
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Incidentally, please note that Lundqvist stopped the initial shot on goal #3.
as Bryz made the 1st save on Neal's goal

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01-13-2012, 01:42 PM
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carle is solid, not great not good but solid, but if we need to get rid of D man its Lilja, he is such pain in the ass to watch

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01-13-2012, 01:51 PM
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How to downplay how bad Bryz has been:

Step one: Find a goalie who everyone agrees is top-3 in the NHL.

Step two: Find footage of that goalie having an off game against a team that Bryzgalov also was terrible against.

Step three: Post said footage on a message board with the title "so maybe it was not all Bryz's fault vs (insert team name here)"

Step four: Downplay the fact that soft goals have been the norm for Bryzgalov this year and the exception for Lundqvist. And try to insinuate that maybe the opponent is just really really good against all the goalies they face.

Step five: Repeat.

See everyone?!?!? Bryzgalov is an elite goalie. He's like Hank Lundqvist Jr. because they both gave up soft goals to Ottawa!!!!

In other news, Zac Rinaldo is pretty much the next Wayne Gretzky because Rinaldo scored a goal against the New Jersey Devils. Wayne Gretzky also scored a goal against the New Jersey Devils at one point in his career!!!!!! Coincidence?!? I THINK NOT.

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01-13-2012, 03:37 PM
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Bernie Parent 1974
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how to selectively read posts:

Step one: overlook when somebody says "I know HL is playing much better than Bryz is"

how to blow out of proportion 1 possibly bad goal vs OTT:

Step one: label the entire game as 'terrible'.

I'm just saying that OTT made HL look average, and Bryz did no worse against OTT & that people over-reacted to that game


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01-13-2012, 05:12 PM
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I know these boards are here to debate this stuff but this particular subject is bringin out the amateurs big time. This team plays different in front of bryz. Period. He does need to be a little better but how bout we adjust to him slightly. we havent. and our defense sucks right now (aside from timonen and mez). I still see him as an elite goalie on a streaky team that plays inconsistently not only from game to game but period to period. We need some upgrades and we need to stop using this lame excuse and making him the target. he is and will be rich. get over it. This is a TEAM game. a TEAM that slightly favors one goalie over another.

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01-13-2012, 05:37 PM
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carle is solid, not great not good but solid, but if we need to get rid of D man its Lilja, he is such pain in the ass to watch
Difference is that Carle has trade value. Lilja is worth precisely squat.

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01-13-2012, 06:08 PM
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how to selectively read posts:

Step one: overlook when somebody says "I know HL is playing much better than Bryz is"

how to blow out of proportion 1 possibly bad goal vs OTT:

Step one: label the entire game as 'terrible'.

I'm just saying that OTT made HL look average, and Bryz did no worse against OTT & that people over-reacted to that game
I read your post differently- even Lundquist looks vulnerable/ average when defence in front of him sucks.

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01-13-2012, 10:46 PM
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I read your post differently- even Lundquist looks vulnerable/ average when defence in front of him sucks.
Exactly. You cannot expect good things to happen when you let talented offensive players shoot from great position. I don't care WHO the goaltender is.

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01-14-2012, 11:15 AM
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I read your post differently- even Lundquist looks vulnerable/ average when defence in front of him sucks.
yes, you could look at it that way, too ... especially on the 2nd goal vs NYR

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01-14-2012, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by BernieParent
Incidentally, please note that Lundqvist stopped the initial shot on goal #3.
as Bryz made the 1st save on Neal's goal
But, to my recollection, the Neal goal wasn't the one in contention. It was the tying goal off a Karlsson wrister from about the same spot on the ice that went right through the wickets. These two goals are about as apples-to-apples as one can get.

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01-14-2012, 02:02 PM
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Great thread, great topic, great video.

If Lundqvist was playing here, certain people would be calling for his head. Both he and MAF, in their last appearances versus the Flyers, have given up goals that would be labeled "soft" by those who excoriate Bryz.

Pedestrian:



Ah well, life in Philly...

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01-14-2012, 02:02 PM
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I read your post differently- even Lundquist looks vulnerable/ average when defence in front of him sucks.
That about sums it up.

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01-14-2012, 02:58 PM
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But, to my recollection, the Neal goal wasn't the one in contention.
Bryz's whole game vs OTT was criticized, not just 1 goal. it was labelled as 'terrible'

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