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O'Boyle Rules (the Brian Boyle predicament)

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Old
01-13-2012, 02:27 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
As Bill Murray said in Caddy Shack "I have to laugh"

I think the bigger predicament is that many in this fan base simply do not know how to watch a hockey game.

With a bit of luck Boyle is the difference in the last two games. That did not happen. If this fan base is waiting for Boyle to be a difference maker like Gaborik, Richards, et. al., then your smoking crack.

Boyle is playing great. He's not a goal scorer. Period. He's a grinder. A big body that gets in front of the net. Takes the puck down low and keeps it there as long as possible. Takes his turn on the PK. Gets a forecheck going.

Any team in this league wants a guy like Boyle playing the role he does for this team. Torts as much confirmed that, but what the hell does he know?
Agree on all accounts and Torts has improved his in-game decision making a lot this season, as far as I'm concerned. But last night he screwed up. The team played a great first period and he started juggling prematurely. I understand Richards wasn't going and Gaborik was quiet, but giving Boyle their ice time does nothing more than send a message. It doesn't help us score a goal or win the game. If we kept the lines the same, or at least moved guys around to get our actual offensive players better opportunities, we could've won that game. Torts killed any momentum we could've built. Still, a great deal of the blame has to fall on Richards, Cally, Gaborik for failing to step up last night. I can excuse a game like this every once in a while, as long as they get back to business tomorrow. Short-memories fellas. Never get too high or too low. The players know this. Well be fine.

PS: Wolski sucks.

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01-13-2012, 02:36 PM
  #102
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We play a stinker once in a while and some people need a scapegoat. If we're ****ing trading players every ****ing time we lose a game then we'll be going back to starting from scratch.

It was a loss. There haven't been too many of them. Best thing to do is live with it.
Seriously, last time I checked, this team has a pretty damn good spot in the standings. Someone is doing something right. One loss in the past 10 games here people.

At the end of last year, even when Brian Boyle, wasn't scoring, the coach needed someone to trust, Callahan his usual was injured and the Captain was hopeless. Bryan Boyle was someone he could turn to in every situation and he relied on him heavily. In the end he was one of those players which helped this team get to the playoffs. For this reason, you will see Coach Tortorella go back to Bryan Boyle and rely on him because he trusts in him. Without BB, the Rangers don't make the playoffs last year.

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01-13-2012, 02:41 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
As Bill Murray said in Caddy Shack "I have to laugh"

I think the bigger predicament is that many in this fan base simply do not know how to watch a hockey game.

With a bit of luck Boyle is the difference in the last two games. That did not happen. If this fan base is waiting for Boyle to be a difference maker like Gaborik, Richards, et. al., then your smoking crack.

Boyle is playing great. He's not a goal scorer. Period. He's a grinder. A big body that gets in front of the net. Takes the puck down low and keeps it there as long as possible. Takes his turn on the PK. Gets a forecheck going.

Any team in this league wants a guy like Boyle playing the role he does for this team. Torts as much confirmed that, but what the hell does he know?
Thats not how it works. You only pay attention to the goals. If Stepan takes a shot that goes off 5 Coyotes' sticks and into the net then you promote him to first star of the game. But if on the replay it looks like it hit Gaborik's tender groin after Coyotes stick #2 and before stick #3 then Gaborik is the clubhouse leader for first star. But if Joe Tollefson announces the goal as Artem Anisimov's even though he was just coming off the bench, well then he's got the first star and you might as well just give Gaborik and Stepan the second and third stars for their valiant effort.

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01-13-2012, 02:53 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by MSG the place to be View Post
Thats not how it works. You only pay attention to the goals. If Stepan takes a shot that goes off 5 Coyotes' sticks and into the net then you promote him to first star of the game. But if on the replay it looks like it hit Gaborik's tender groin after Coyotes stick #2 and before stick #3 then Gaborik is the clubhouse leader for first star. But if Joe Tollefson announces the goal as Artem Anisimov's even though he was just coming off the bench, well then he's got the first star and you might as well just give Gaborik and Stepan the second and third stars for their valiant effort.
You just couldn't resist. You can never resist.

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01-13-2012, 03:08 PM
  #105
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You just couldn't resist. You can never resist.
It's 1% for effect and 99% for coping.

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01-13-2012, 03:14 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
His line had the puck on most shifts and they were creating chances. He was not Boyle from last year. But he was the Rangers best center last night.
That's because his line was carrying him hard.

"With a bit of luck" he's the difference? With a bit of luck Gaborik gets a break away every game and snipes the **** out of whoever we're playing.

Boyle brought his line down (Feds and Hags were fantastic) and still gets a ton of ice time. He needs to go back to the 4th line.

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01-13-2012, 03:41 PM
  #107
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That's because his line was carrying him hard.

"With a bit of luck" he's the difference? With a bit of luck Gaborik gets a break away every game and snipes the **** out of whoever we're playing.

Boyle brought his line down (Feds and Hags were fantastic) and still gets a ton of ice time. He needs to go back to the 4th line.
Your entitled to your opinion. I'm entitled in saying it's wrong.

Let's forget about luck for a second. What was not luck was that Boyle was again where he needed to be on Fed's goal against the Yotes. As in right in front of the net screening a goaltender who with the exception of that goals was bullet proof in regulation time. If not for Boyle's positioning on that play there is likely no goal.

Another thing that is not luck is that game in and out Boyle is dedicated to the system the team plays and he puts in the effort. If other players don't put in that effort that's when they sit. That is what Tort's was saying on the post game. It's pretty clear.

People want to come on here and just trash a guy. Go ahead that's your prerogative. I will call BS on your position when I think it's warranted....as it is here.

It's beautiful day. I'm gonna go have some fun and enjoy myself. You guys do the same.

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01-13-2012, 03:44 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
Your entitled to your opinion. I'm entitled in saying it's wrong.

Let's forget about luck for a second. What was not luck was that Boyle was again where he needed to be on Fed's goal against the Yotes. As in right in front of the net screening a goaltender who with the exception of that goals was bullet proof in regulation time. If not for Boyle's positioning on that play there is likely no goal.

Another thing that is not luck is that game in and out Boyle is dedicated to the system the team plays and he puts in the effort. If other players don't put in that effort that's when they sit. That is what Tort's was saying on the post game. It's pretty clear.

People want to come on here and just trash a guy. Go ahead that's your prerogative. I will call BS on your position when I think it's warranted....as it is here.

It's beautiful day. I'm gonna go have some fun and enjoy myself. You guys do the same.
That's fine, I have no problem with differing opinions. I like Brian Boyle, he's a nice, likable guy who loves his team and he's dedicated to the system- but I think it's an absolute joke a 4th liner is getting as many minutes as he did last night. I love Brandon Prust too and I would be disgusted if he got as much ice time as Boyle did yesterday.

When you give Boyle that much ice time, when in the opinon of others and myself the two guys with him were the ones actually making the line work, you hurt the team. I think Torts did a bad job yesterday, a rare clunker.

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01-13-2012, 03:49 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
Your entitled to your opinion. I'm entitled in saying it's wrong.

Let's forget about luck for a second. What was not luck was that Boyle was again where he needed to be on Fed's goal against the Yotes. As in right in front of the net screening a goaltender who with the exception of that goals was bullet proof in regulation time. If not for Boyle's positioning on that play there is likely no goal.

Another thing that is not luck is that game in and out Boyle is dedicated to the system the team plays and he puts in the effort. If other players don't put in that effort that's when they sit. That is what Tort's was saying on the post game. It's pretty clear.

People want to come on here and just trash a guy. Go ahead that's your prerogative. I will call BS on your position when I think it's warranted....as it is here.

It's beautiful day. I'm gonna go have some fun and enjoy myself. You guys do the same.
Are you saying he belongs on the 3rd line and deserves 2nd line minutes? Most of us are not asking for Boyle to be traded or waived. We are asking for the coach to treat him like a 4th line player which he most certainly is.

Many of us were not fooled by last year's goal production and subsequently are not surprised by this year's drought. When was the last time BB passed to puck to one of his teammates and they scored? I am challenging his defenders to find more than one piece of evidence over the last two years where he actually created a goal by distributing the puck (as a center should do as part of their job description). I cannot think of an assist that he has received that wasn't either a second assist or a goal off a rebound or his arm or back or shin guard.

Maybe you can uncover such evidence. It would be helpful to his cause on this board.

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01-13-2012, 03:55 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by DM Smiths View Post
After tonight's game against Ottawa (let alone the way he's been playing on this team), I think all Blueshirts fans are wondering what on earth he's doing. What do we do? Does Torts play with lines in practice, mixing him with players more likely to hasten his game? Does he get time in Hartford? Has he become a full-time grinder?
The problem is Tortorella doesn't view him as a liability or an issue. We all saw the game yesterday, most of his criticized his play and Tortorella's persistence to give him more ice time than Gaborik, Richards, and Callahan.

Not only that, Tortorella said Boyle's line played fantastic last night DESPITE being on the ice for all three goals and their inability to successfully shut down the Spezza/Michalek duo.

The issue is more with Tortorella, his generally favorable bias towards Boyle, and the ice time he receives. I mean, Tortorella pairs him against the other teams elite talent as if Boyle was a Selke candidate.

Bottom line is, you cannot give a player, who in most cases is "decent" defensively, 15-20 minutes a night when they cannot score. No goals in 21-22 games, no points in 10+, etc. We need to do something with Boyle, but one thing is for sure, Torts won't.

I wouldn't mind if we played him as a 4th line grinder. Which is what he should be. The problem is we utilize him as Patrice Bergeron and he doesn't have the ability to do so. And thats on Torts.

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01-13-2012, 04:17 PM
  #111
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In game 82, in a do or die situation, Shelley played 14 minutes, Prust played 14 minutes, and Anisimov played 18 minutes. Meanwhile Jokinen played 11 minutes and Prospal played 15. The minutes weren't this way because Shelley got a deflection goal and therefore earned more minutes...the minutes were doled out like that because the trio was carrying the play every shift and the other lines were playing tentative, on their heels.

Last year when the Pack Line was first put together it was a perfect display of the way we need to play. I don't care how many goals they scored, I don't remember any of them. But I do remember sitting in my chair and having a smile ear to ear and laughing like a schoolgirl as the opposition tried to clear the zone and the Pack Line just wouldn't take their foot off the pedal.

Torts wants EXACTLY what the Boyle line did yesterday from all of his lines. And Rightfully so. If you didn't want that line out there as much as possible then you have little appreciation of the style of team that we are. It doesn't matter who the players are as long as they tip the ice in our favor shift after shift after shift. Boyle, Hagelin, and Fedotenko were able to do that as well as any line this year in a single game. Loved it. Just wish we had it from more than one line.

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01-13-2012, 04:28 PM
  #112
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I've seen enough out of Brian Boyle these last 2 years to know that he is a 4th line player.

I don't buy into his stats from last year, they were a fluke.

He's clueless on the ice. All he does is dump the puck, work the boards, dump the puck, work the boards (essentially a 4th line player). His supporters have this misconception that he's better than he is (largely because of the inflated stats he put up last year and his height).

As a member of the 4th line, I find him a decent-potentially good addition. As a member of the 3rd line I find it head scratching.

As for the argument that his line was the best last night... it was hands down, the best line for the Rangers. That doesn't mean that he wasn't making them worse. I can give you 4 piles of **** and ask you to choose which is the best of all 4, that doesn't mean that any 1 pile is in actuality good.

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Old
01-13-2012, 05:24 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
We are asking for the coach to treat him like a 4th line player which he most certainly is.
The coach had plenty to say last night after the game. The top six had a lousy night in terms of their effort and their dedication to a system which has brought this team to it's current record. Boyle and his line mates had no such issues. Hence, they get the minutes.

Simple.

Boyle is not a 2nd liner. Many nights he's a passable 3rd liner. There are at least two areas where he is exceptional:

Effort.

Dedication to the system.

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01-13-2012, 05:53 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
The coach had plenty to say last night after the game. The top six had a lousy night in terms of their effort and their dedication to a system which has brought this team to it's current record. Boyle and his line mates had no such issues. Hence, they get the minutes.

Simple.

Boyle is not a 2nd liner. Many nights he's a passable 3rd liner. There are at least two areas where he is exceptional:

Effort.

Dedication to the system.
The problem is that he's not exceptional in anything else. You said earlier that he is "playing great," and then named a bunch of things that he does. The problem with that assessment is that all of those things that he does (battling, keeping the puck down low, etc.)...he's not actually great, or even particularly good at any of them. He's serviceable. Decent. Not a liability.

I don't have a problem with that line getting a lot of minutes last night. I have a problem with Boyle getting a lot of minutes. The reason that line was having the success that it did had a lot more to do with the two guys on the wing, the guys who have that effect most nights, regardless of their linemates. It's not that Boyle played poorly, it's that it was more like he was along for the ride. I don't mind that Hagelin and Feds got a lot of ice time. I can understand that. They make stuff happen. Boyle...not so much.

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01-13-2012, 06:41 PM
  #115
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Boyle sucks. 2 goals in 40 games? For a 3rd line center?

Unacceptable.

IMO the Rangers are not getting enough from AA, Richards and nothing from Boyle.

Boyle's the Teachers Pet. He knows blocking shots is the way to his coach's heart.

4th liner. Get him there now!

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01-13-2012, 07:34 PM
  #116
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at all of this.

I guess there is to much nuance here.

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01-13-2012, 08:01 PM
  #117
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Yes. Because if you watched the game, he had countless chances whereas the likes of Richards and Gaborik looked like complete crap all game. It happens. This isn't something that is a nightly occurrence but you have to hold players accountable. If they are playing like ****, then take away their ice time.

The difference is, Boyle was playing well but could not score. Gaborik and Richards were playing like crap, and couldn't score.
That line with all the good they did, were on ice for all 3 goals. They were in over there heads. You have 12 forwards on your bench, not 3. Not for nothing but I thought the team was good in the 1st and flat in the 2nd. Then Torts goes and blows everything up and guys are being benched. That's no different then most games this year yet he decided to mess with the lineup last night.

I'm getting away from the original point and that is Boyle. I've posted more in this thread today then I have in months and most have agreed with me, some haven't. That's fine, everyone sees the game different. I like Boyle...as a 3rd/4th liner. He's struggled this year offensively but has been solid enough defensively. Simply put I don't think he played well last night and I don't agree with Torts' assessment of his play or the ice time he gave him. I think in a tight game you keep your scorers out there as there's more of a chance of them scoring. Torts' wanted to make a point. Fine. His point cost us 2 points. Hopefully the top 6 comes out better tomorrow.

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01-13-2012, 09:06 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Boyle sucks. 2 goals in 40 games? For a 3rd line center?

Unacceptable.

IMO the Rangers are not getting enough from AA, Richards and nothing from Boyle.

Boyle's the Teachers Pet. He knows blocking shots is the way to his coach's heart.

4th liner. Get him there now!
I think he needs his skates sharpened. His stride looks worse than last year. Would rather see Mitchell in 3rd line center spot for a few games.

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01-13-2012, 10:47 PM
  #119
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That line with all the good they did, were on ice for all 3 goals. They were in over there heads. You have 12 forwards on your bench, not 3. Not for nothing but I thought the team was good in the 1st and flat in the 2nd. Then Torts goes and blows everything up and guys are being benched. That's no different then most games this year yet he decided to mess with the lineup last night.

I'm getting away from the original point and that is Boyle. I've posted more in this thread today then I have in months and most have agreed with me, some haven't. That's fine, everyone sees the game different. I like Boyle...as a 3rd/4th liner. He's struggled this year offensively but has been solid enough defensively. Simply put I don't think he played well last night and I don't agree with Torts' assessment of his play or the ice time he gave him. I think in a tight game you keep your scorers out there as there's more of a chance of them scoring. Torts' wanted to make a point. Fine. His point cost us 2 points. Hopefully the top 6 comes out better tomorrow.
First off, Boyle's line was on the ice for one goal at even strength--all three of them were -1 for the night. There were two even strength goals scored, so it is impossible that Boyle's line was on the ice for all three goals.

And as someone at the game last night, I thought that Richards was horrible (especially on the power play--as he was on Tuesday night), Gaborik was indifferent, Stepan and especially Anisimov were a step slow and Callahan just seemed to be wandering around aimlessly. Wolski had a number of good shifts in the first period, but is not the type of player who can overcome the rest of the team playing poorly, so he was also less than effective in the latter two periods. Who's left to play? Prust--well, he got a few shifts extra shifts with different linemates in the hope that his energy would revive them, but it didn't help. Boyle, Fedotenko and Haglin played well and were rewarded on a night when the rest of the team wouldn't or couldn't match Ottawa in intensity. Maybe it's easier playing the underdog, but now the Rangers are the team that everyone is gunning for. Either way, Tortorella is not going to reward players who don't give it all on every shift--that's the way he's always been.

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01-13-2012, 11:25 PM
  #120
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I think he needs his skates sharpened. His stride looks worse than last year. Would rather see Mitchell in 3rd line center spot for a few games.
He definitely looks slower and less agile than he did last year, and he's on his ass as much as he was in his first year here. What the heck happened to all the progress he made? It's like he got complacent after being satisfied with his 20 goal season. He needs to play with an edge, consistently.

I think torts sees potential in him, not as the scorer boyle wishes he was, but as a "stiff" borderline-great defensive forward. As much as it seems at times like he can do no wrong and continue to get ice time, I've also seen Tortorella chew him out for stupid plays on more than one occasion. I think Tortorella sees Evgeny Artyukhin in Boyle; a huge forward who while not as physical as his size would suggest can be a very productive player defensively. In the 2004 cup year for Tampa, Artyukhin started out as a healthy scratch who was in and out of tortorella's chateau bow-wow, but he ended the season on the ice protecting a 2-1 lead to win the Stanley Cup. Definitely similar players, and I think believe it or not, Boyle has better hands and offensive instincts. He certainly could use a refresher course with Barb, though.

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01-13-2012, 11:52 PM
  #121
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I think he needs his skates sharpened. His stride looks worse than last year. Would rather see Mitchell in 3rd line center spot for a few games.
Somebody call Barbara Underhill please.

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01-14-2012, 12:49 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Boyle sucks. 2 goals in 40 games? For a 3rd line center?

Unacceptable.

IMO the Rangers are not getting enough from AA, Richards and nothing from Boyle.

Boyle's the Teachers Pet. He knows blocking shots is the way to his coach's heart.

4th liner. Get him there now!
People like you make my ****ing head hurt.

WE ARE IN FIRST PLACE....let me say it again...WE ARE IN FIRST PLACE. Two losses in our last 10.

We are getting enough from EVERYONE. You know how I know? BECAUSE WE ARE IN FIRST ****ING PLACE.

Now...everyone who actually knows what they are taking about...go back to enjoying the best hockey MSG has seen in 15 years...

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01-14-2012, 08:56 AM
  #123
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The problem is that he's not exceptional in anything else. You said earlier that he is "playing great," and then named a bunch of things that he does. The problem with that assessment is that all of those things that he does (battling, keeping the puck down low, etc.)...he's not actually great, or even particularly good at any of them. He's serviceable. Decent. Not a liability.

I don't have a problem with that line getting a lot of minutes last night. I have a problem with Boyle getting a lot of minutes. The reason that line was having the success that it did had a lot more to do with the two guys on the wing, the guys who have that effect most nights, regardless of their linemates. It's not that Boyle played poorly, it's that it was more like he was along for the ride. I don't mind that Hagelin and Feds got a lot of ice time. I can understand that. They make stuff happen. Boyle...not so much.
if i wasn't already engaged.....



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01-14-2012, 10:01 AM
  #124
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People like you make my ****ing head hurt.

WE ARE IN FIRST PLACE....let me say it again...WE ARE IN FIRST PLACE. Two losses in our last 10.

We are getting enough from EVERYONE. You know how I know? BECAUSE WE ARE IN FIRST ****ING PLACE.

Now...everyone who actually knows what they are taking about...go back to enjoying the best hockey MSG has seen in 15 years...
There is nothing wrong with pointing out flaws. Yeah, we're in first place, but we're far from playing perfect every night. Imagine how good it would feel if Boyle was on pace for 20 goals as he was last year, Richards was above PPG like he was last year and Dubinsky had been playing like he is now for the first half of the season. Now that's a scary team.

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01-14-2012, 10:47 AM
  #125
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People like you make my ****ing head hurt.

WE ARE IN FIRST PLACE....let me say it again...WE ARE IN FIRST PLACE. Two losses in our last 10.

We are getting enough from EVERYONE. You know how I know? BECAUSE WE ARE IN FIRST ****ING PLACE.

Now...everyone who actually knows what they are taking about...go back to enjoying the best hockey MSG has seen in 15 years...
This post is kind of ridiculous.

Reminds me of the scene in Animal House:

"All is well!!!!!! All is well!!!!!!"

It's a Brian Boyle thread. It was created for a reason.

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