HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Official MLB Thread - Part V (Santana throws first no-hitter in Mets history)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-13-2012, 08:28 PM
  #151
Stugots
Kolo, Kolo Kolo!
 
Stugots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 6,376
vCash: 500
No one really knows who got the better end of the deal. People are just speculating based on potential. We won't know for at least a few years. If these two guys were more established then it would be a different story.

Stugots is offline  
Old
01-13-2012, 08:36 PM
  #152
Death By BB Gun
#therightway
 
Death By BB Gun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New York City, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 305
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by M0rbid View Post
Remember Javier Vazquez. Great potential, threw 96-98 mph, can't miss prospect with the Montreal Expos LOL. Genius move, Cash.
So these two have what to do with each other? If Pineda had those same quotes as a Yankee prospect you'd be all over his ****.

Death By BB Gun is offline  
Old
01-13-2012, 08:39 PM
  #153
BrooklynRangersFan
Change is good.
 
BrooklynRangersFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn of course
Country: United States
Posts: 10,152
vCash: 500
Buster Olney on Twitter:

Quote:
Montero is most often compared, in his style of hitting, to Edgar Martinez. Power, but also a great contact hitter,opposite field. But(more)

Strong reaction so far from other teams: Some execs from other AL East teams believe Yankees just made an incredible trade.

Have gotten e-mails/calls from six team re: Pineda trade, and all are stunned the Yankees got Pineda.

The Yankees moved like Michael Corleone in Godfather II. All family business settled in one day.

Kuroda gets one-year, $10 million.

Kuroda signing is an extra expenditure approved by the Steinbrenners; they will not have to move salary (i.e. Swisher) to fit in his deal.

Yankees' rotation now: Sabathia, Kuroda, Pineda, Nova, and somebody out of Burnett/Garcia/Hughes competition. Time to re-do power rankings.

One rival exec asks:"If Mariners liked Montero so much, how come they didn't just trade Cliff Lee for him?... Pineda is worth more."

Market ripples: Yankees' deals are not good for Edwin Jackson, a pitcher the Yankees liked -- but not as much as Pineda.
Sounds like Buster - and a bunch of rival executives - all think this was a steal for the Yanks.

BrooklynRangersFan is online now  
Old
01-13-2012, 08:41 PM
  #154
M0rbid
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cave
Country: United States
Posts: 7,735
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Buster Olney on Twitter:



Sounds like Buster - and a bunch of rival executives - all think this was a steal for the Yanks.
"If Mariners liked Montero so much, how come they didn't just trade Cliff Lee for him?... Pineda is worth more."


That a**hole of a GM didn't want the Yankees to win another World Series. Justin Smoak over Montero? Give me a break.

M0rbid is offline  
Old
01-13-2012, 08:49 PM
  #155
NYGBleedBlueNYR
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,939
vCash: 500
Another Pineda tidbit from @ESPNStatsInfo: His 173 strikeouts last year were the most by a pitcher 22 or younger since Kerry Wood in 1998
8:39 PM

NYGBleedBlueNYR is online now  
Old
01-13-2012, 09:01 PM
  #156
BroadwayBlues
oxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxo
 
BroadwayBlues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York City
Country: United States
Posts: 7,862
vCash: 500
Don't like this deal.

Few things:

This lineup is aging and could use another impact bat.

Pineda is not proven. He has high upside but is not proven.

He's risky. Pitchers tend to flame out while hitters are safer bets.

Pineda still needs development. He's not a finished product.

This worries me because the Yankees track record of developing starting pitching isn't good.

Pineda pitched in Safeco. Along with the rest of the AL West pitcher friendly parks.
His numbers will not be as good in smaller parks in the AL East.

Also he will be facing better lineups.

BroadwayBlues is offline  
Old
01-13-2012, 09:06 PM
  #157
M0rbid
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cave
Country: United States
Posts: 7,735
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
Don't like this deal.

Few things:

This lineup is aging and could use another impact bat.

Pineda is not proven. He has high upside but is not proven.

He's risky. Pitchers tend to flame out while hitters are safer bets.

Pineda still needs development. He's not a finished product.

This worries me because the Yankees track record of developing starting pitching isn't good.

Pineda pitched in Safeco. Along with the rest of the AL West pitcher friendly parks.
His numbers will not be as good in smaller parks in the AL East.

Also he will be facing better lineups.
Even though its a small sample size, Red Sox and the Jays hit him pretty hard.

M0rbid is offline  
Old
01-13-2012, 09:09 PM
  #158
McDonaghisGod
Why not us?
 
McDonaghisGod's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 5,932
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
Don't like this deal.

Few things:

This lineup is aging and could use another impact bat.

Pineda is not proven. He has high upside but is not proven.

He's risky. Pitchers tend to flame out while hitters are safer bets.

Pineda still needs development. He's not a finished product.

This worries me because the Yankees track record of developing starting pitching isn't good.

Pineda pitched in Safeco. Along with the rest of the AL West pitcher friendly parks.
His numbers will not be as good in smaller parks in the AL East.

Also he will be facing better lineups.
Agreed. Hughes and Joba haven't exactly blossomed under this regime.

McDonaghisGod is offline  
Old
01-13-2012, 09:12 PM
  #159
BrooklynRangersFan
Change is good.
 
BrooklynRangersFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn of course
Country: United States
Posts: 10,152
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeetchisGod View Post
Agreed. Hughes and Joba haven't exactly blossomed under this regime.
Okay, but by this logic, the Yankees should never draft (or trade for) a pitcher under the age of 27. They should simply stockpile hitters and acquire 30 year old pitchers for $10MM+ or more per year.

I think Pineda has legit stuff and the other kid's numbers look amazing. I am extremely unhappy about losing Monetro - LOVED his bat.

So, in this case, I'm going to rely on the other GMs' opinions.

Especially since the Yanks' are loaded at the catcher position in the minors.

BrooklynRangersFan is online now  
Old
01-13-2012, 09:18 PM
  #160
BroadwayBlues
oxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxo
 
BroadwayBlues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York City
Country: United States
Posts: 7,862
vCash: 500
A few more things:

If you're the Yankees, why would you deal from weakness(young hitting) and not strength, which is your young pitching?

Pineda sounds like Joba few years ago. Big FB and slider. With a not so great delivery.

Maybe if you did a better job in developing Joba, you wouldn't have to do a deal like this.

Now the Yankees have ZERO impact bats coming up. At least not anytime soon.

They have Gary Sanchez. But he's a few years away. And I don't think he's as good as Montero.

I really like Montero. I didn't want to see him traded for anyone. But if he was going to be traded, he should have been traded for someone PROVEN.

I guess this was inevitable. We've been hearing his name in trades for years now.
I don't think the Yankees ever wanted him.

BroadwayBlues is offline  
Old
01-13-2012, 09:19 PM
  #161
McDonaghisGod
Why not us?
 
McDonaghisGod's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 5,932
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Okay, but by this logic, the Yankees should never draft (or trade for) a pitcher under the age of 27. They should simply stockpile hitters and acquire 30 year old pitchers for $10MM+ or more per year.

I think Pineda has legit stuff and the other kid's numbers look amazing. I am extremely unhappy about losing Monetro - LOVED his bat.

So, in this case, I'm going to rely on the other GMs' opinions.

Especially since the Yanks' are loaded at the catcher position in the minors.
It doesn't worry you that this is the same bunch of geniuses who made Joba a starter when it was obvious to anyone watching that he was far more effective as a reliever?

McDonaghisGod is offline  
Old
01-13-2012, 09:27 PM
  #162
IBleedNYRBlue
Registered User
 
IBleedNYRBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 2,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
A few more things:

If you're the Yankees, why would you deal from weakness(young hitting) and not strength, which is your young pitching?

Pineda sounds like Joba few years ago. Big FB and slider. With a not so great delivery.

Maybe if you did a better job in developing Joba, you wouldn't have to do a deal like this.

Now the Yankees have ZERO impact bats coming up. At least not anytime soon.

They have Gary Sanchez. But he's a few years away. And I don't think he's as good as Montero.

I really like Montero. I didn't want to see him traded for anyone. But if he was going to be traded, he should have been traded for someone PROVEN.

I guess this was inevitable. We've been hearing his name in trades for years now.
I don't think the Yankees ever wanted him.
Agree with this.

I really don't see how you trade a weakness as in a young hitter like Montero for a 22 year old unproven guy who fell off in the second half of the year. Im just nervous about this guy coming to the Bronx and pitching here. Pitching for the ****ing New York Yankees, is much different than playing in Seattle. I'd say being a starting pitcher for the Yankees is one of the most high pressured jobs in sports.

IBleedNYRBlue is offline  
Old
01-13-2012, 09:41 PM
  #163
M0rbid
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cave
Country: United States
Posts: 7,735
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
A few more things:

If you're the Yankees, why would you deal from weakness(young hitting) and not strength, which is your young pitching?

Pineda sounds like Joba few years ago. Big FB and slider. With a not so great delivery.

Maybe if you did a better job in developing Joba, you wouldn't have to do a deal like this.

Now the Yankees have ZERO impact bats coming up. At least not anytime soon.

They have Gary Sanchez. But he's a few years away. And I don't think he's as good as Montero.

I really like Montero. I didn't want to see him traded for anyone. But if he was going to be traded, he should have been traded for someone PROVEN.

I guess this was inevitable. We've been hearing his name in trades for years now.
I don't think the Yankees ever wanted him.
Young Daniel Cabrera.

M0rbid is offline  
Old
01-13-2012, 09:55 PM
  #164
BrooklynRangersFan
Change is good.
 
BrooklynRangersFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn of course
Country: United States
Posts: 10,152
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by M0rbid View Post
Young Daniel Cabrera.
Oh PLEASE. So they're both big, hard throwing and latin.

Cabrera never had a year CLOSE to Pineda's last year - never mind the fact that it was the kid's first year at the age of 22. Pineda's WHIP last year was 1.09; Cabrera's best WHIP was 1.43. Pineda struck out more batters at his age than anyone since Kerry Wood.

He tired as the year went on. It happens to young pitchers (and actually, if you look at his stats month by month, he had a horrible July ERA-wise and then got steadily better again in August and Sept).


Last edited by BrooklynRangersFan: 01-13-2012 at 10:03 PM.
BrooklynRangersFan is online now  
Old
01-13-2012, 10:08 PM
  #165
Kershaw
 
Kershaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country:
Posts: 25,519
vCash: 50
Mariners got fleeced IMO. Pineda is a superstar in the making.

Kershaw is offline  
Old
01-13-2012, 10:23 PM
  #166
I Eat Crow
Fear The Mullet
 
I Eat Crow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 6,076
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Oh PLEASE. So they're both big, hard throwing and latin.

Cabrera never had a year CLOSE to Pineda's last year - never mind the fact that it was the kid's first year at the age of 22. Pineda's WHIP last year was 1.09; Cabrera's best WHIP was 1.43. Pineda struck out more batters at his age than anyone since Kerry Wood.

He tired as the year went on. It happens to young pitchers (and actually, if you look at his stats month by month, he had a horrible July ERA-wise and then got steadily better again in August and Sept).
Luckily the Yankees have a couple of veteran arms in reserve in the case that Nova or Pineda become fatigued in the middle of the season. I figure the Yankees will start with a rotation of CC, Nova, Pineda, Kuroda, and Garcia, with Hughes and Burnett ready to fill in as needed.

Also, I will throw a **** fit if Robertson is traded. He's the closer after Mariano retires. Period.

I Eat Crow is offline  
Old
01-13-2012, 10:58 PM
  #167
BrooklynRangersFan
Change is good.
 
BrooklynRangersFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn of course
Country: United States
Posts: 10,152
vCash: 500
Interesting comments from Law on other pitcher the Yanks got in the trade:

Quote:
Jose Campos is the lottery ticket in the deal, and could very well turn this deal into a steal for the Yankees four or five years down the road. He's an extreme strike-thrower with an above-average fastball that will touch 95, and a slider that shows above-average but isn't consistent yet. Campos needs to work on his changeup and has yet to pitch in a full-season league, so he's several years away from the majors. He's also young enough that the injury risk is still significant, and I'd like to see him get over his front side better as he finishes his delivery. But he won't turn 20 until July, and if he were in the draft this year he'd be a first-rounder, so for the Yanks it's almost like getting an extra draft pick in the deal. For some context on what Seattle gave up, he would have been No. 5 in my 2012 organizational ranks for the Mariners.

The move fits Brian Cashman's preference to develop arms and buy bats, and when Campos fills out his 6-foot-4 frame, the Yanks could end up with two guys in their top three rotation spots from the trade.
http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog/...attle-new-york

BrooklynRangersFan is online now  
Old
01-13-2012, 11:04 PM
  #168
darko
Registered User
 
darko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Country: Australia
Posts: 30,162
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by M0rbid View Post
IMO it's a desperation move by Cash. He is a high risk, high reward pitcher. Look at his home and away record especially after the allstar break. Safeco ballpark skewed his ERA.

.258 BABIP which is extremely low. MLB average is around .290/.300. His xFIP was lower than his ERA.

Pineda is a flyball pitcher which is somewhat scary considering the ballpark but he's a real deal.

darko is offline  
Old
01-13-2012, 11:12 PM
  #169
darko
Registered User
 
darko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Country: Australia
Posts: 30,162
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by M0rbid View Post
Young Daniel Cabrera.

You couldnt be more wrong. Pineda has very good control. 2.89 BB per 9 last year which was his career high at any level. Daniel Cabrera on the other hand couldnt find the plate if his life depended on it. Completely different pitchers.

darko is offline  
Old
01-13-2012, 11:16 PM
  #170
darko
Registered User
 
darko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Country: Australia
Posts: 30,162
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Kuroda is 37 and was in a hitter-soft division.

Cashman sucks. He's lucky Boston sucks more.

Kuroda is a very solid #3. He'll slot right in behind CC and Pineda.


CC/Pineda/Kuroda/Nova/Hughes with Garcia an option. If only aliens could abduct Burnett.

darko is offline  
Old
01-13-2012, 11:20 PM
  #171
BrooklynRangersFan
Change is good.
 
BrooklynRangersFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn of course
Country: United States
Posts: 10,152
vCash: 500
One other thing I take from this deal is that the Yanks were definitely convinced Montero will never play catcher. If they had in fact made that decision, it was likely just a matter of time until he was gone anyway, because they're going to need the DH/1B slot for the next five years for aging bats currently in the IF.

BrooklynRangersFan is online now  
Old
01-13-2012, 11:33 PM
  #172
Machinehead
RIP Robin Williams
 
Machinehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York New York
Country: United States
Posts: 33,771
vCash: 500
Cashman didn't get fleeced, he got McDonagh/Gomez fleeced. Absolutely flabbergasted by this move

Machinehead is offline  
Old
01-13-2012, 11:34 PM
  #173
YoungD4
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 170
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by M0rbid View Post
"If Mariners liked Montero so much, how come they didn't just trade Cliff Lee for him?... Pineda is worth more."


That a**hole of a GM didn't want the Yankees to win another World Series. Justin Smoak over Montero? Give me a break.
Justin Smoak was a better prospect. They keep calling montero a catcher, he's the furthest thing

YoungD4 is offline  
Old
01-13-2012, 11:47 PM
  #174
IBleedNYRBlue
Registered User
 
IBleedNYRBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 2,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Mariners got fleeced IMO. Pineda is a superstar in the making.
And so is Montero.

IBleedNYRBlue is offline  
Old
01-13-2012, 11:52 PM
  #175
Forever Blue
Registered User
 
Forever Blue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 1,042
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Cashman didn't get fleeced, he got McDonagh/Gomez fleeced. Absolutely flabbergasted by this move
How could anyone possibly say either side got "fleeced" in this deal? Especially the Yankees, when you consider the vast difference in upside in the second part of the deal that goes in their favor.

Forever Blue is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:55 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.