HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Sportsnet Magazine: Inside The Long Pathetic Fall Of The Once Great Canadiens Empire

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-13-2012, 07:51 PM
  #101
Richiebottles
Big Mike !
 
Richiebottles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 8,054
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Exactly! This guy is claiming the Habs are irrelevant, yet dedicates a long winded essay to bash us.

How many pieces like this do you see written about the Islanders, another once great team?
I should go post this on the main board. The rage would be legendary and the thread would hit 1,000 pages. Why?

Because everything I wrote is true.

Richiebottles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2012, 07:52 PM
  #102
ReVeuF
Registered User
 
ReVeuF's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,036
vCash: 500
We just have a few one season surprises since the Lafleur era...

1986 : hot goalie won cup for us
1989 : very strong season

1993 : hot goalie won cup for us

2008 : nice season

2010 : hot goalie won a few rounds

That resume pretty much the team hockey-wise since Lafleur era... Average most of the time.

I remember the 1989 season, the players were flying on the ice, was the first season Pat Burns coached the team.

ReVeuF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2012, 08:04 PM
  #103
Young Gun
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,245
vCash: 500
I personally don't care who wrote it or were it was written, it's a fair account of the fall of the habs. Until the "right people" are put in place to fix the problems, this team will become the laughing stock of the nhl.

By the right people i mean good hockey people with good vision, lives and sleeps hockey, the ability to be able spot tallent, the ability to bring out that talent from players, should able to put a system in place and find the right players and the right coach for that system. Should have the ability to change with the times as needed.

You can't play a tough defensive system with a bunch of smurfs. You get bounced around to much in your end, get's to a point where your body is being smashed into the boards so much it will wear you down. You need a team to be built like emelin to go that route.

The habs were lost under Jm, they knew what it wanted them to do and it worked for a bit , going back to the playoffs with pitts and wash, but most of the players weren't prepared to do all season long , game after game, year after year.

I think the habs had a vision of a high flying team when the rule changes and the taking out the redline came along. even that wasn't a bad vision for a time, when the power play was striking very often.

Anyway they have to find a way to get big bodies in, the right gm and coach. Not saying the r.c isn't the right coach. The man should be given a chance, he loves hockey, played and work hard at it and he is a good guy.

Young Gun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2012, 08:45 PM
  #104
Bobs your uncle
Registered User
 
Bobs your uncle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sadly, in Calgary
Posts: 559
vCash: 500
I think the article nails it.
The Habs are a mess.

Bobs your uncle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2012, 08:48 PM
  #105
Em Ancien
Sexy 2nd Rounder
 
Em Ancien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mount Real Life
Posts: 8,467
vCash: 500

Em Ancien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2012, 08:51 PM
  #106
All-Star
Registered User
 
All-Star's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Snake Mountain
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,421
vCash: 500
Management and ownership has been revamped at least 3 times since the last cup. Over that period of time, nothing has changed. This leads me to believe, that management isn't the real issue facing the Habs.

The consistent issues the Habs have faced over the same period are:
- High taxes
- Language issues
- An ignorant fan base who treats the players like movie stars instead of athletes
- Rabid (and overly dramatic) 24/7 local sports media coverage

Now considering the first 3 issues have been around since the Habs played their very first game way back when, I'd say that the advent of 24/7 coverage is the single biggest issue facing the Habs (and the Leafs) today.

Back in the day, people read Habs news in the morning paper, and got a little blurb about last night's game on the 6 o'clock news. Reporters are now forced to embellish and overly dramatize events because there's only so much that can be said about a hockey team that would qualify as actual news (definitely not enough to cover them 24/7). This in turn results in turning the fan base against the team (remember how Price supposedly had a coke habit and a bodyguard, or "The Darkest Day in Habs History"?). This in turn discourages kids and players alike from ever wanting to play for the team. Especially considering the fact that there are tons of other options out there where the issue doesn't exist (on top of low taxes, no language issues, and an uninterested local fan base).

Hell, if I was good (and young) enough to play in the NHL, I probably wouldn't want to play for the Canadiens either (or at least not until much later in my career).

Until the media backs the **** off, the team will remain mediocre no matter who's in charge (personally, I don't believe even Pollock would have better luck today than any of the guys running the Habs over the last decade).

All-Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2012, 08:54 PM
  #107
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 17,768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by All-Star View Post
Management and ownership has been revamped at least 3 times since the last cup. Over that period of time, nothing has changed. This leads me to believe, that management isn't the real issue facing the Habs.

The consistent issues the Habs have faced over the same period are:
- High taxes
- Language issues
- An ignorant fan base who treats the players like movie stars instead of athletes
- Rabid (and overly dramatic) 24/7 local sports media coverage

Now considering the first 3 issues have been around since the Habs played their very first game way back when, I'd say that the advent of 24/7 coverage is the single biggest issue facing the Habs (and the Leafs) today.

Back in the day, people read Habs news in the morning paper, and got a little blurb about last night's game on the 6 o'clock news. Reporters are now forced to embellish and overly dramatize events because there's only so much that can be said about a hockey team that would qualify as actual news (definitely not enough to cover them 24/7). This in turn results in turning the fan base against the team (remember how Price supposedly had a coke habit and a bodyguard, or "The Darkest Day in Habs History"?). This in turn discourages kids and players alike from ever wanting to play for the team. Especially considering the fact that there are tons of other options out there where the issues don't exist (on top of low taxes, no language issues, and an uninterested local fan base).

Hell, if I was good (and young) enough to play in the NHL, I probably wouldn't want to play for the Canadiens either (or at least not until much later in my career).

Until the media backs the **** off, the team will remain mediocre no matter who's in charge (personally, I don't believe even Pollock would have better luck today than any of the guys running the Habs over the last decade).
Not having top picks might have something to do with it too.

Lafleurs Guy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2012, 08:59 PM
  #108
24stanleycups*
24-6=18,goodluck lol
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 564
vCash: 500
If the habs are in a pathetic fall for not having a cup since 1993, than what the hell do you call toronto with no cup since 1967. What's boston for having one since 1972. New York with one since 1940. Chicago with one 1961. **** off hater. Every original six team was changed when the expansion era came, and we still have 10 cups after 1967, the most for any team. There is no such thing as dynasty's in a ****ing 30 team league moron. Why don't you go pick on buffalo or philly for having a combined 2 cups in 80 sum collective years you ****ing putz. What a joke. Dumb ****ing leafs fan. Probabley waited until the habs were having a worse season than the blue****s to post that article. ****ing loser. We're the best and everybody knows it. We aren't at the top of the mountain. We ARE the ****ing mountain. **** the world. Habs forever.!!!

24stanleycups* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2012, 09:03 PM
  #109
habsjunkie2*
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,865
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Parent View Post
I agree. The same 5-10 teams would contend for the cup every year, and we would be one of them.

You seem to forget the mid/late 90's and early 2000's where we did no such thing.

habsjunkie2* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2012, 09:07 PM
  #110
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 16,754
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingAvtsin View Post
I should go post this on the main board. The rage would be legendary and the thread would hit 1,000 pages. Why?

Because everything I wrote is true.
Considering how every thread on the main board turns into a Habs bash thread, it would probably end poorly.

Et le But is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2012, 09:09 PM
  #111
Nashy
The Honey Badger
 
Nashy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,350
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
All I will say is that there is a glaring lack of professionalism on this team that had been apparent for at least 10 years.

Coaches being fired right before games. Players being traded during games. Strange, bizzare moves with no foresight whatsoever. And the GM sitting there, lying to the fans with a straight face.
The Habs used to be the epitome of professionalism and class. It is quite disturbing the crap that I have heard and seen in the past few years, but the moves that Gauthier has made this year, I have never seen the likes of.

I still cannot believe the Cammalleri was traded between periods of a game against a division rival...or that an assistant coach was fired an hour before game time.

The organization is rotting and something more drastic needs to be done.

Nashy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2012, 09:11 PM
  #112
All-Star
Registered User
 
All-Star's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Snake Mountain
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,421
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Not having top picks might have something to do with it too.
Plenty of teams get by just fine without top picks. Of course they're able to attract top UFAs unlike Montreal.

All-Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2012, 09:12 PM
  #113
NotProkofievian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,560
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by All-Star View Post
Management and ownership has been revamped at least 3 times since the last cup. Over that period of time, nothing has changed. This leads me to believe, that management isn't the real issue facing the Habs.

The consistent issues the Habs have faced over the same period are:
- High taxes
- Language issues
- An ignorant fan base who treats the players like movie stars instead of athletes
- Rabid (and overly dramatic) 24/7 local sports media coverage

Now considering the first 3 issues have been around since the Habs played their very first game way back when, I'd say that the advent of 24/7 coverage is the single biggest issue facing the Habs (and the Leafs) today.

Back in the day, people read Habs news in the morning paper, and got a little blurb about last night's game on the 6 o'clock news. Reporters are now forced to embellish and overly dramatize events because there's only so much that can be said about a hockey team that would qualify as actual news (definitely not enough to cover them 24/7). This in turn results in turning the fan base against the team (remember how Price supposedly had a coke habit and a bodyguard, or "The Darkest Day in Habs History"?). This in turn discourages kids and players alike from ever wanting to play for the team. Especially considering the fact that there are tons of other options out there where the issue doesn't exist (on top of low taxes, no language issues, and an uninterested local fan base).

Hell, if I was good (and young) enough to play in the NHL, I probably wouldn't want to play for the Canadiens either (or at least not until much later in my career).

Until the media backs the **** off, the team will remain mediocre no matter who's in charge (personally, I don't believe even Pollock would have better luck today than any of the guys running the Habs over the last decade).
This is utterly irrelevant for the simple reason that contenders and stanley cup champions are almost never built via UFA and trade. The main pieces are drafted and developed by the organization itself, with few, if any, exceptions.

The problem with this franchise is a "win-now" mentality which continually mortgages the future of the team. Sam Pollock absolutely would have had more "luck" simply because he didn't believe in "luck." He was fanatical when it came to procuring and developing the finest young talents in the game. To our GM's over the past 15 years, this has been, comparatively, an after-thought.

UFA's don't want to sign here because they know they don't have a shot at the cup. Are you trying to say that if Pittsburgh had Montreal's media that they wouldn't want to play there? "Yeah, I have a legit shot every single year to win a stanley cup...but those media guys are just so up in your ****."

The grim reality is that our team is not good because of a flawed organizational philosophy. Not because of some inherent environmental factor.

NotProkofievian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2012, 09:23 PM
  #114
All-Star
Registered User
 
All-Star's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Snake Mountain
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,421
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
This is utterly irrelevant for the simple reason that contenders and stanley cup champions are almost never built via UFA and trade. The main pieces are drafted and developed by the organization itself, with few, if any, exceptions.

The problem with this franchise is a "win-now" mentality which continually mortgages the future of the team. Sam Pollock absolutely would have had more "luck" simply because he didn't believe in "luck." He was fanatical when it came to procuring and developing the finest young talents in the game. To our GM's over the past 15 years, this has been, comparatively, an after-thought.

UFA's don't want to sign here because they know they don't have a shot at the cup. Are you trying to say that if Pittsburgh had Montreal's media that they wouldn't want to play there? "Yeah, I have a legit shot every single year to win a stanley cup...but those media guys are just so up in your ****."

The grim reality is that our team is not good because of a flawed organizational philosophy. Not because of some inherent environmental factor.
Ownership has changed three times over that period, they've had three presidents, 4 GMs, and about 8 coaches. To claim there's been any kind of consistent organizational philosophy during that period is a bit far fetched wouldn't you say?

All-Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2012, 09:24 PM
  #115
Teufelsdreck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 13,751
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 24stanleycups View Post
If the habs are in a pathetic fall for not having a cup since 1993, than what the hell do you call toronto with no cup since 1967. What's boston for having one since 1972. New York with one since 1940. Chicago with one 1961. **** off hater. Every original six team was changed when the expansion era came, and we still have 10 cups after 1967, the most for any team. There is no such thing as dynasty's in a ****ing 30 team league moron. Why don't you go pick on buffalo or philly for having a combined 2 cups in 80 sum collective years you ****ing putz. What a joke. Dumb ****ing leafs fan. Probabley waited until the habs were having a worse season than the blue****s to post that article. ****ing loser. We're the best and everybody knows it. We aren't at the top of the mountain. We ARE the ****ing mountain. **** the world. Habs forever.!!!
I can't disagree with your argument but your personal attack was unnecessary. Better edit your post before you receive an infraction from some unsympathetic moderator.

Teufelsdreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2012, 09:25 PM
  #116
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 17,768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by All-Star View Post
Plenty of teams get by just fine without top picks. Of course they're able to attract top UFAs unlike Montreal.
Pretty sure top picks would've helped us.

Lafleurs Guy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2012, 09:35 PM
  #117
All-Star
Registered User
 
All-Star's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Snake Mountain
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,421
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Pretty sure top picks would've helped us.
For every team where top picks helped, you can name a team where they didn't, so it's not a fix all solution by any means...

All-Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2012, 09:35 PM
  #118
NotProkofievian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,560
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by All-Star View Post
Ownership has changed three times over that period, they've had three presidents, 4 GMs, and about 8 coaches. To claim there's been any kind of consistent organizational philosophy during that period is a bit far fetched wouldn't you say?
What does that matter? First of all, look at any and all of the organizational moves in the past 15 years. They all reek of a "win-now" mentality that continually mortgages our future until there is nothing left.

Second of all, there has only been 2 distinct ownership groups in the past 15 years. Gillette, and the Molsons.

They may have put their own slant on it, but the fact remains that our approach to managing a team has been very, very flawed for a long time.

It's tragic to me that other teams seem to have learned from our past, when we cannot. It seems like almost every other GM is making moves for picks and prospects, while we do not. I mean sure, we got a 2nd, and a somewhat decent prospect but that's just not acceptable. Pollock was absolutely fanatical about getting great young talent. That dynasty was planned. It didn't just happen.

NotProkofievian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2012, 09:36 PM
  #119
NotProkofievian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,560
vCash: 500
*yawn*

If you had to say, who do you think is going to be the better team in 3 years time: Montreal, or Edmonton?

Like lets say you stood to win 1 million dollars by choosing correctly, which one would you pick?

NotProkofievian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2012, 09:39 PM
  #120
MathMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,855
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingAvtsin View Post
Saying that 1996 was the last time the Habs "mattered" is pure sensational garbage. Want proof that the Habs still matter and in a big way?
How about being one of the economic engines of the league and signing revenue sharing cheques to shore up other franchises?

It's a business and the Habs bring in money. Therefore they will remain relevant.

MathMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2012, 09:46 PM
  #121
NotProkofievian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,560
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
How about being one of the economic engines of the league and signing revenue sharing cheques to shore up other franchises?

It's a business and the Habs bring in money. Therefore they will remain relevant.
Well that sounds good enough for me...

NotProkofievian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2012, 09:48 PM
  #122
All-Star
Registered User
 
All-Star's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Snake Mountain
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,421
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
What does that matter? First of all, look at any and all of the organizational moves in the past 15 years. They all reek of a "win-now" mentality that continually mortgages our future until there is nothing left.

Second of all, there has only been 2 distinct ownership groups in the past 15 years. Gillette, and the Molsons.

They may have put their own slant on it, but the fact remains that our approach to managing a team has been very, very flawed for a long time.

It's tragic to me that other teams seem to have learned from our past, when we cannot. It seems like almost every other GM is making moves for picks and prospects, while we do not. I mean sure, we got a 2nd, and a somewhat decent prospect but that's just not acceptable. Pollock was absolutely fanatical about getting great young talent. That dynasty was planned. It didn't just happen.
Through it's over 100 years of history, the Habs have always had a win now attitude. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one... Pollock was around back when players didn't have to be drafted, and the talent pool wasn't divided by 30, so "planning" a dynasty was a possibility back then. Even Pittsburgh with its bazillion recent top picks doesn't even remotely come close to even sniffing the dynasty's jock-strap. No team does, and no team ever will, not even the mighty Red Wings... Times have changed.

Edit: before anyone says it, yes the draft was around, but teams didn't take it as seriously as they do today...


Last edited by All-Star: 01-13-2012 at 09:53 PM.
All-Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2012, 09:53 PM
  #123
Em Ancien
Sexy 2nd Rounder
 
Em Ancien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mount Real Life
Posts: 8,467
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
How about being one of the economic engines of the league and signing revenue sharing cheques to shore up other franchises?

It's a business and the Habs bring in money. Therefore they will remain relevant.
That's like saying the Dallas Cowboys are relevant because of the money they provide for the league.

People constantly talk about the Cowboys (good, bad and ugly, same type of deal), they are branded as 'America's Team', they have numerous championships to show off.

Yet, they haven't been relevant to the NFL since Troy Aikman was passing the ball to Michael Irvin and handing it off to Emmitt Smith.

Em Ancien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2012, 09:55 PM
  #124
habsjunkie2*
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,865
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
Only if you call me when the Habs win something.

If you'd like it in a perspective that doesn't put you in a Leaf defensive stance, here you go:

Teams with fewer playoff rounds won than Montreal in the past 18 years

Nashville Predators
Florida Panthers
Los Angeles Kings
Minnesota Wild
Phoenix Coyotes
Calgary Flames
Atlanta Thrashers
New York Islanders
Edmonton Oilers
Columbus Blue Jackets

That's the kind of company you are talking about.
I can't believe some of you are trivial enough to argue who has sucked worse based on an arbitrary cutoff that makes no sense, how does 18 years ago have anything to do with now? How about post salary cap, when things actually are relevant? Doesn't look so rosy for Toronto now, eh?

We suck, you suck as much. Get over it. No need to pile on while we're going through a rough patch.

habsjunkie2* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2012, 09:57 PM
  #125
habsrule22
Registered User
 
habsrule22's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Powassan, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,615
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
*yawn*

If you had to say, who do you think is going to be the better team in 3 years time: Montreal, or Edmonton?

Like lets say you stood to win 1 million dollars by choosing correctly, which one would you pick?
montreal - Edmonton has some nice young forwards, but their defense sucks and are far from settle in goal.

habsrule22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:02 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.