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Around the NHL Part XXIII

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Old
01-13-2012, 09:55 PM
  #901
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Bruins were one of my favorite teams and I cheered for them when we got eliminated and I was ecstatic that they won the cup. But the arrogance flowing in with these fans makes it hard to have a proper discussion with them.

I hope we **** them next meeting.

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01-13-2012, 09:55 PM
  #902
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
I asked you to back up a claim as to how the Bruins were far superior to the Rangers. Instead, you provided a hyperbole-laden breakdown of your team straight out of any season preview post or issue of [insert random blog/hockey magazine].

Keeping in mind that, again, I DO think the Bruins are probably the best team in the league, that I often root for the Bruins, and that I've watched at least 15 Bruin games this season (not to mention all but 2 or 3 games from their entire playoff run last season), at least 30% of your analysis is an enormous exaggeration. Then, of course, in no way do you address the Rangers or any other team, and what exactly puts the Bruins "in a league of their own," despite, you know, the fact that there are 6-7 teams that have either more, the same, or just a little bit less points than the Bruins do.

The only thing you've backed up is that you're a monumental homer with no sense of objectivity.

Anyway, I'm through indulging you. I'll leave you with this: I'd love to see what would have happened last season in the playoffs had the Bruins been forced to face a healthy Penguins team, or how the Bruins and Timmy Thomas would have fared this season had Zdeno Chara missed as much time as Marc Staal had, not to mention Michael Sauer.

My take? If Sid and Geno are healthy, the Bruins don't make the Stanley Cup Finals, and if Chara misses half of this season, the Bruins are in a heated battle for the 4th/5th seed, not the President's Trophy. You know, what the Rangers were doing without their top defenseman.
What am I supposed to do, break down every team in the league? I just described a perfectly built hockey team who has gone through the labors needed to win a Cup. The Rangers offense is two stars, two good offensive players, and the rest are middling at best. Do I have to paint out why the Bruins throttle them offensively? I was just describing what allows the Bruins to dominate offensively. There is no team remotely close to them for goals/game and what they're doing 5-on-5 blows every other team out of the water as far as the statistic goes back, not to mention they've had the elite 5-on-5 pedigree they've had for years. What exactly do I have to say about other teams? What team brings this complete of a team to the table as the Bruins do? What needs to be said about other teams in the league when the Bruins are so far ahead of the competition it would seem useless to bring anything else up?

Ho hum.. if the Penguins can get healthy... They still don't have the depth. And I already addressed the Chara injury. He doesn't get seriously injured with the shape he keeps himself in

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01-13-2012, 09:58 PM
  #903
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Why are you on the Rangers board pimping your team?

I mean, what the hell do you expect.

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01-13-2012, 10:01 PM
  #904
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Originally Posted by Faxius View Post
I never ignored what Thomas accomplished. He has accomplished a hell of a lot. Since Thomas has the best save pct in history, do you think he is the best goaltender in the history of the NHL?
Nope, others have been at it way longer, which means alot. As for a certain period of dominance, I'd say that 6 or so year period Hasek had is at the top, but Thomas is right up there.

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01-13-2012, 10:04 PM
  #905
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Why are you on the Rangers board pimping your team?

I mean, what the hell do you expect.
I saw posts here saying people thought the Rangers could compete with the Bruins and I'm very curious as to how people could think that, so I asked. It got into an argument about Thomas vs. Lundqvist, which I think is even more insane.

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01-13-2012, 10:05 PM
  #906
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Originally Posted by Sheer Con View Post
I saw posts here saying people thought the Rangers could compete with the Bruins and I'm very curious as to how people could think that, so I asked.
Brilliance.

The superior team in the standings has NO CHANCE of competing with the Bruins. Overrate much?

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01-13-2012, 10:09 PM
  #907
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All right, we're done here with this. It's gone too far. Return to your respective corners, and let the thread return to Around the NHL discussion.

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01-13-2012, 10:13 PM
  #908
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Originally Posted by Sheer Con View Post
I saw posts here saying people thought the Rangers could compete with the Bruins and I'm very curious as to how people could think that, so I asked. It got into an argument about Thomas vs. Lundqvist, which I think is even more insane.
Go back to the Bruins board if you're going to actively insult our team. There's no reason to think the Rangers can't compete with the Bruins given their respective records. Hank has been the most consistently great goalie in the league since the lockout. Did you seriously expect to come in here with your belligerent, unsubstantiated tripe and get your "tires pumped?"

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01-13-2012, 10:13 PM
  #909
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I think the Rangers have a better overall depth at defense, while the Bruins clearly have the best defenseman.

Chara

Girardi
Staal
Seidenberg
McDonagh

Boychuk
Del Zotto
Ference
Sauer

Corvo

Eminger/Stralman
Kampfer/Woywitka/Erixon

And we have to take note that the Bruins have rarely faced the adversity of losing D-Men due to injury. The Rangers have missed Sauer and Staal for large proportions of the year. The Bruins? None. No long term injuries on defense. We'll have to see how they due when the injury plague eventually hits them.

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01-13-2012, 10:16 PM
  #910
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Originally Posted by Zil View Post
Go back to the Bruins board if you're going to actively insult our team. There's no reason to think the Rangers can't compete with the Bruins given their respective records. Hank has been the most consistently great goalie in the league since the lockout. Did you seriously expect to come in here with your belligerent, unsubstantiated tripe and get your "tires pumped?"
It's amazing how insufferable fans become when their team has a modicum of success. The bruins had basically been failures since the 70s and now they're the model NHL franchise.

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01-13-2012, 10:16 PM
  #911
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Originally Posted by Sheer Con View Post
What am I supposed to do, break down every team in the league? I just described a perfectly built hockey team who has gone through the labors needed to win a Cup. The Rangers offense is two stars, two good offensive players, and the rest are middling at best. Do I have to paint out why the Bruins throttle them offensively? I was just describing what allows the Bruins to dominate offensively. There is no team remotely close to them for goals/game and what they're doing 5-on-5 blows every other team out of the water as far as the statistic goes back, not to mention they've had the elite 5-on-5 pedigree they've had for years. What exactly do I have to say about other teams? What team brings this complete of a team to the table as the Bruins do? What needs to be said about other teams in the league when the Bruins are so far ahead of the competition it would seem useless to bring anything else up?
You can't "paint" anything out because the teams haven't even played one game against each other yet (and even one game can't tell the whole story). So please go away and stop complaining about Ranger fans liking the Rangers more than the Bruins.

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01-13-2012, 10:32 PM
  #912
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Originally Posted by Sheer Con View Post
Saying Lundqvist doesn't compare to Thomas means he sucks and is inconsistent? Lundqvist has been one of the best and most consistent goalies in the league for years. But he has not played on the level that he is playing on this season yet. Can you even argue that? Thomas has been playing on a record-setting pace for years (minus the injury season).

And by sucking I assume you mean setting records in Finland. He didn't get a chance because of his style, but once he did, he dominated. Are we talking about who had more NHL success 6 years ago now though?
Lundqvist has also been playing at a "record-setting pace for years." Six years to be exact. No other goalie in NHL history has ever began a career with six consecutive 30+ win seasons, and soon to be seven. Even more impressive when you consider the bubble teams (6th through 8th place) he's played behind for five of those six years, and a team that missed the playoffs in the other year.

Thomas and Lundqvist are in an elite tier above every other goalie in the league. They're both incredibly consistent, incredibly clutch, and great competitors. To argue who's better is silly. Even if they play eachother in the playoffs this year and one team wins, it only means that one TEAM was better than the other, not necessarily the most valid reflection of the goalies.

To say Thomas didn't get a chance because of his style is a farce. He simply wasn't as good as he is today. He had holes in his game, the biggest one being inconsistency. He's found the right mentality to complement his play, and he's likely going to end up in the hall of fame when he's done. I applaud him. But I think it's only realistic to think that Lundqvist on the Bruins last season could've done just as well and won the cup. Thomas had one of the best playoff performances by a goalie in history, no doubt, but his team was deep as hell and they came together to be better than the sum of their parts: something that all Cup Champions find a way to do.

Lundqvist has been absolutely outstanding in his last two playoff series against the high-powered, offense-first Capitals. If you watched the games, rather than simply stat-surfing, you'd know he was the only reason the 2010 series went to 7 games, and he was a stone-wall last season, stopping Ovechkin on multiple overtime breakaways before his own player stole the puck from him and gift-wrapped Chimera's death-blow goal.

All I know is that if we end up with a Boston vs New York conference final, the winner will be the fans and hockey in general, as I have no doubts that Henke and Thomas would put on an absolute show.

Thomas has had much better teams. This year it's almost dead even (even down to two of the best backup goalies in the league) and now that Staal is finally healthy, the first meeting on the 21st should be a great test for both teams. Both teams are deep, have a delicate balance of youth and experience, and score by committee (they both get contributions up and down the lineup) This should make for a very exciting race for first in the East, and likely the league. Still, no matter what the outcomes, it won't necessarily mean that one goalie is better than the other. They're the two best goalies in the world. That's enough for me.

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Old
01-13-2012, 10:33 PM
  #913
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3 good years does not a Hall of Fame career make.

If he can keep this up for another 4 years, then sure.

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01-13-2012, 10:48 PM
  #914
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
3 good years does not a Hall of Fame career make.

If he can keep this up for another 4 years, then sure.
3 good years? He's had 1 medicore year and two absolutely dominant years (one of which he sets the record for save %, wins a stanley cup, conn smythe, along with second vezina).

While Thomas doesn't have a long track record, these past four years have been, all in all, a dominant display.

If he wins a third vezina this year, that'd be 3 in 4 years. There'd be absolutely no way he doesn't get in.

Even now with all of the accolades he has, he should get in. He has more hardware than some goaltenders already in HOF.

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01-13-2012, 10:53 PM
  #915
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
3 good years does not a Hall of Fame career make.

If he can keep this up for another 4 years, then sure.
He has a Stanley Cup ring, a Conn Smythe, and two Vezinas.

He's the first goalie since Bernie Parent in the 70's to win all three in the same season.

He holds the record for best single season save percentage.

Because Boston is one of the best teams in the league, I see Thomas continuing to put up elite statistics for the next 2-3 and perhaps winning another Vezina or two, and perhaps another Stanley Cup.

The only thing preventing him from continuing to put up great numbers is the fact that he's already 37, and Boston has another great goalie in Rask who is ready to take over as soon as Thomas begins to decline.

If he retires after this season, he's got a very good chance at the Hall simply because of the uniqueness and magnitude of his accomplishments. If he plays another 2-4 years at a high level and puts up great statistics, he'll be a shoe-in, even if he doesn't win another trophy.

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01-13-2012, 10:58 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by RussianRangersFan View Post
3 good years? He's had 1 medicore year and two absolutely dominant years (one of which he sets the record for save %, wins a stanley cup, conn smythe, along with second vezina).

While Thomas doesn't have a long track record, these past four years have been, all in all, a dominant display.

If he wins a third vezina this year, that'd be 3 in 4 years. There'd be absolutely no way he doesn't get in.

Even now with all of the accolades he has, he should get in. He has more hardware than some goaltenders already in HOF.
Not a knock against Tim Thomas, but I still can't believe that Lundqvist doesn't have a Vezina trophy yet.

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01-13-2012, 11:04 PM
  #917
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Originally Posted by Jabroni1994 View Post
Not a knock against Tim Thomas, but I still can't believe that Lundqvist doesn't have a Vezina trophy yet.
It's been bad luck more than anything imo. Every year some goalie managed to have a single standout year. Lundqvist, on the other hand, has been great every single year.

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01-13-2012, 11:08 PM
  #918
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While we're on the topic, if Lundqvist wins a cup in NY, he likely ends up in the Hall as well. He's almost there as it is. You have to remember, it's the HOCKEY hall of fame, not just the NHL hall of fame.

Only goalie in NHL history to begin his career with six consecutive 30+ win seasons (soon to be 7, and possibly many many more)

Nominated for Vezinas in each of his first three years in the NHL.

He won the award for best goalie in the SEL three years in a row.

He won the player of the year of the SEL.

He won the MVP as voted by the players of the SEL.

He won an Olympic Gold Medal.

During the 2005 season for Frolunda, he broke four Swedish national records: lowest goals against average (1.05), highest save percentage (.962), longest goalless streak (172 min 29 sec), and most shutouts in a season (6).

He won two league championships with Frolunda.

Its a fairly safe assumption that he wins at least one Vezina before he's done (if he keeps up his current pace, he will win it this year). So it really comes down to a cup, and to be honest, if he continues his high level of consistency for another 7-10 years, he absolutely gets in even if he doesn't win a cup (knock on wood).

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01-13-2012, 11:12 PM
  #919
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Originally Posted by RussianRangersFan View Post
3 good years? He's had 1 medicore year and two absolutely dominant years (one of which he sets the record for save %, wins a stanley cup, conn smythe, along with second vezina).

While Thomas doesn't have a long track record, these past four years have been, all in all, a dominant display.

If he wins a third vezina this year, that'd be 3 in 4 years. There'd be absolutely no way he doesn't get in.

Even now with all of the accolades he has, he should get in. He has more hardware than some goaltenders already in HOF.
His first Vezina season was hardly dominant.

Johan Santana had 2 Cy Youngs in 3 years, but since then he disappeared. He had a 4 year stretch of dominance but that doesn't make a Hall of Fame career.

Last year? Sure. I'll forgo the 56 games played. He was dominant.

And let's not ignore the rest of his mediocre years, before his first Vezina season.

If he finishes this year on pace for what he is and has a few more years like this, then yes, I can see it. Not right now, though. I put more emphasis on consistent greatness then a short flare of dominance, though, so different strokes for different folks.

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01-13-2012, 11:27 PM
  #920
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I think Tim Thomas is a borderline case. He's a late bloomer and that could end up hurting him. Also, most HOF goaltenders have around 400 wins (or close to 300, at the very least). Thomas won't approach those numbers due to the fact that he became successful so late in his career and he only starts around 50-55 games a season.

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01-13-2012, 11:34 PM
  #921
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We've played Boston pretty tight the last 3 years. The "series" will probably be evenly matched, IMO.

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01-14-2012, 12:25 AM
  #922
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Sheer Con has to be the most blatant homer in sports history lol!

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01-14-2012, 12:46 AM
  #923
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Sheer Con has to be the most blatant homer in sports history lol!
I hate people like that, who already have a conclusion then try to find facts to support it, instead of looking at the actual facts to figure out a conclusion that's actually valid!

Either way in pretty sure he got thread banned, hence why he stopped replying.

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01-14-2012, 03:23 AM
  #924
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I hate people like that, who already have a conclusion then try to find facts to support it, instead of looking at the actual facts to figure out a conclusion that's actually valid!

Either way in pretty sure he got thread banned, hence why he stopped replying.
Yeah, when he first came here and asked that question I thought maybe he really wants to know what we think (he didn't have a Bruins avatar at that time either), but after that first reply it was already obvious he just wanted to pimp his team.

A shame really, apart from Jack Edwards, I didn't have any problems with Bruins fans, but things like this now make me wish an epic playoff failure upon them just for guys like Sheer Con to come back to earth.

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01-14-2012, 05:00 AM
  #925
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Boston trolls are the worst. All their teams. This love affair with Thomas is as old as the trend of Pink Hatters staying away from Fenway in droves. Pretty current.

Go read their GDT's of Games 4-7 of the 2010 Bruins chokejob and the 2010 offseason.

Go read their GDT's when they were down 2-0 to the Habs going into Montreal.

Henrik is 16-5-2 with a .947 SVPVT and 1.50 GAA with 5 shutouts. Those are his career numbers against Boston.

Thomas is 4-7-3 with a .911 SVPCT and a 2.69 GAA. Those are his career numbers against the Rangers.

But no...we're supposed to believe some Boston clown simple because "he said so"?

Please. Take that **** to the main board.

The Bruins are 5-5 against the top-10 teams in the NHL. The Rangers are 9-4 against those same teams.

So to answer King Numbnuts' question: Yes, I do think the Rangers can compete against the Bruins because:

a) Henrik owns the Bruins
b) Thomas doesnt own the Rangers
c) The Bruins are mediocre against top competition
d) The Rangers are excellent against top competition

The 1993 Penguins won 57 games and lost to the friggin Isles in the 2nd round.
The 2009 Bruins and Lord Thomas won over 50 games and lost to the Canes in the 2nd Round


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