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The Webs/Suts Rose Ceremony - All Ryan Suter/Shea Weber FA talk

View Poll Results: Do you think that we should trade Ryan Suter at the deadline?
Yes, we need to get something for him rather than nothing. 18 30.51%
No, he's more valuable than any return that we would get for him. 41 69.49%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-11-2012, 09:02 AM
  #76
barrytrotzsneck
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trade Suter for JVR, trade a 1st and Matt Halischuk for Francois Beauchemin, then re-sign him before July 1 as a stop-gap replacement for Suter.

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01-11-2012, 09:31 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
What really chaps me about the Weber/Suter situation is, their timing sucks... anyone with a modicum of hockey sense can look at this team's development this year (especially the rookie defensemen, Wilson and Smith) and see that next year is probably going to be "our year" to make a real run.... so forcing poile to trade assets for a rental forward for this year is actually pretty stupid... better to get a couple of depth players this year and see where we can get and make trades or pursue UFAs this summer...
Thanks, Volde, this has been the most difficult part for me, but I've not had the chance to put it into words.

I think a great scenario would be to sit down with the 2 of them, offer the $7 for 4-5 years, and say okay, here's the money you're gonna make wherever you go. We have a window with the 2 of you and Rinne, and some promising young talent. Give me 2 seasons. If in those 2 seasons you don't see what you like, just say the word and I'll trade you to a contender.

I'd honestly rather keep Suter than Weber if we have to lose one, but you can't trade Weber for help and then see Suter walk. So in reality Suter has to sign before you can trade Weber. I think we can survive without one of them, losing Suter hurting the worst, but I think without both, we'd have to overpay like mad just to reach the floor. And unless I'm crazy, I don't think there is a very high profile UFA class coming up either for next couple of seasons, right?

At this point, I think it's gonna have to take a show of faith by all of the parties involved. Unfortunately, at the end of the day, if one or both don't want to be here, they won't.

Funny thing is, that right now, if Suter ties Poiles hand too badly, he could be traded to the Islanders, or even CLB and have to play for a few months in what sounds like his worst nightmare.

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01-11-2012, 10:09 AM
  #78
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with the emergence of Josi and Ellis we could survive losing Suter if we could get a player the caliber of JVR back in trade, but Im not sure we can get that for a rental.

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01-11-2012, 10:40 AM
  #79
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Blum looked pretty good for 30 games last year, too.

Lotta' folks have argued Ryan was the "better" Dman - it's obviously not universally agreed. Most would agree we have the type of prospects with skill sets that translate to replacing him more easily. I've been in that camp myself. However....... if Josi and Ellis can actually put up the offensive numbers consistently, I'd argue it's possible we might actually "replace" Weber more easily, since what we'd really need is a physical Dman (or 2) to pair with Suter and Klein - and we already need one of those anyway.

Ryan showed - albeit for a relatively short time - he can play well without Weber and be the on-ice leader. We don't know all the behind-the-scenes obviously, but Weber didn't exactly shine as El Capitain during the off-season contract debacle. Perhaps the right answer is getting that physical Dman we need anyway, getting Suter signed, and then telling Mr. Weber that he can sign the same deal or spend his last RFA season in Cbus or whatever lousy hockey-he!! Poile can ship him too.

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01-12-2012, 12:34 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by deanwormer View Post
Ryan showed - albeit for a relatively short time - he can play well without Weber and be the on-ice leader. We don't know all the behind-the-scenes obviously, but Weber didn't exactly shine as El Capitain during the off-season contract debacle. Perhaps the right answer is getting that physical Dman we need anyway, getting Suter signed, and then telling Mr. Weber that he can sign the same deal or spend his last RFA season in Cbus or whatever lousy hockey-he!! Poile can ship him too.
In my opinion, Weber the player = beast mode. Weber the captain = meh.

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01-14-2012, 01:03 AM
  #81
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IMO it's not just that weber and suter (and fans) want to see the team spend more money... They want to see it spent wiser as well. We bailed out of the kessel talks because of the $5.4m price tag, yet spend a combined 17m a year on dumont, fish, legs, erat. We don't want to pay kessel 5.4 yet spend 5.6 on horvq + kosisyten.

This reminds me of a girl wanting her boyfriend to change their ways or they're out of here. Sorry folks but poile will always be a passive Nancy when it comes to making the right offensive moves.

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01-14-2012, 05:43 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
IMO it's not just that weber and suter (and fans) want to see the team spend more money... They want to see it spent wiser as well. We bailed out of the kessel talks because of the $5.4m price tag, yet spend a combined 17m a year on dumont, fish, legs, erat. We don't want to pay kessel 5.4 yet spend 5.6 on horvq + kosisyten.

This reminds me of a girl wanting her boyfriend to change their ways or they're out of here. Sorry folks but poile will always be a passive Nancy when it comes to making the right offensive moves.
Yeah, that or maybe Kessel told them he wouldn't play in nashville no matter how much money they offered... I'm sure you have the inside scoop though. Not to mention that in the unlikely event that it was actually money that was the issue, poile can't spend money he hasn't been givenby the owners.

Believe whatever you want but I have always thought Nashville was just the stalking horse designed to get a better return from toronto


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Old
01-14-2012, 06:21 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
IMO it's not just that weber and suter (and fans) want to see the team spend more money... They want to see it spent wiser as well. We bailed out of the kessel talks because of the $5.4m price tag, yet spend a combined 17m a year on dumont, fish, legs, erat. We don't want to pay kessel 5.4 yet spend 5.6 on horvq + kosisyten.

This reminds me of a girl wanting her boyfriend to change their ways or they're out of here. Sorry folks but poile will always be a passive Nancy when it comes to making the right offensive moves.
IMHO - That's an irrational and inaccurate observation. Dumont was given a very reasonable $4mil contract after a couple seasons of putting up .8ppg. An illegal hit cost him his career. Many folks have shown the numbers on the Legwand and Erat contracts and that they were exactly representative of the market for their performance level. Fish? Really - what's he getting - something in the $3mil range?

And seriously - if Kessel was today - not when the bloody franchise was reeling from the disaster that was Liarpold - do you really think $5.4mil is an issue? (Cause before the debacle we signed PK and Arny to significant FA contracts so it wasn't necessarily an issue then) Your comment complains about making "wise investment", yet elsewhere the complaint is DP is too cautious and wants to make too wise a decision; even if you'e not making that argument here it surely can't be both.

It's silly to sit outside, when there is no way to know who DP has conversation with and what the context and content of those conversations are, and criticize the results. We have a franchise that has built to a decent potential post-first round run twice in 12 years (unfortunate the 06/7 team got knocked off by the Sharks, but 51 wins - no rational person could complain about what the GM did putting that team together), in a non-traditional market, with significant financial limitations, and yet we're in the POs 6 of last 7 years. Our true siblings - Atlanta lost their franchise; Columbus gets in the POs once and is certainly the worst team in the conference if not the entire NHL - think their fans might be happier with what DP and Trotz have been able to do?

Good grief - there are only a handful of franchises that have had measurably more success over the last 7 years then we have. There are VERY few that have grown the talent we have - and those went through consecutive seasons of being the absolute worst team in hockey and got awarded with multiple years of top 5 picks. While we might like to see an ultimately better result - i.e, a "deep run" - it seems inconceivable to make comments about poor investments when they contracts are market level or use an example (that may or may not even be accurate) of dropping out of pursuit of a $5.4mil player in the immediate aftermath of Liarpold.

As for getting back to topic - DP has said he's had serious talks and has a contract on the table for Suter. It's not being disputed by the other side, so it kinda' is up to Ryan as to whether he wants to be in Nash or not. We know DP is willing to pay Shea $7.5 and not whine about it so the $7mil for 7yrs that was floated as offered doesn't seem far-fetched although none of us know for sure. That's a reasonable contract for the market for stud Dmen. So - again - seems ball is in the Captain's court - DP is doing what he can to make that contract work.

As for the rest of the franchise - stable players you complained about - Fish, Leggy, Marty, Horny etc - along with our Dmen twins, have allowed us to let Wilson mature into a bona fide top6 Forward, bring in #15 and #59, bring up #49 and #57, while only losing an over-achieving Joel Ward to free agency; so even if DP truly didn't do his job and even try to find us a free agent, he gave us the prospects to improve that will continue to mature and improve for several years. Those seem like wise investments to me.

Time and time-again, DP has proven to do EXACTLY what your post complained about - make WISE investments. The issue it really seems you're complaining about is that he hasn't made a splashy free agent grab for something much of the fan-base thinks we need and/or would like to see us have. Just cause that desire is there does not mean it's wise. We had Rads; that's a whole nother topic, but that was the scorer we don't have. Doesn't appear we lost him because of DP. Put him on this team - let alone on last years team - what then is the complaint about wise investing?

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01-14-2012, 09:50 AM
  #84
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The issue it really seems you're complaining about is that he hasn't made a splashy free agent grab for something much of the fan-base thinks we need and/or would like to see us have.
No, the issue is that DP hasn't gotten the team to the next level, and Suter and Weber are hesitant to sign because of it.

DP said publicly the pricetag got too high for Kessel. And yes there were rumors he only wanted to go to Toronto, not that he really had a say in the matter.

As for all the other justification/rationalization of everything under the sun... Yes, we are better than Columbus, but I don't think that's the issue Weber/Suter have with the direction of the team.


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01-14-2012, 09:52 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by deanwormer View Post
IMHO - That's an irrational and inaccurate observation. Dumont was given a very reasonable $4mil contract after a couple seasons of putting up .8ppg. An illegal hit cost him his career. Many folks have shown the numbers on the Legwand and Erat contracts and that they were exactly representative of the market for their performance level. Fish? Really - what's he getting - something in the $3mil range?

And seriously - if Kessel was today - not when the bloody franchise was reeling from the disaster that was Liarpold - do you really think $5.4mil is an issue? (Cause before the debacle we signed PK and Arny to significant FA contracts so it wasn't necessarily an issue then) Your comment complains about making "wise investment", yet elsewhere the complaint is DP is too cautious and wants to make too wise a decision; even if you'e not making that argument here it surely can't be both.

It's silly to sit outside, when there is no way to know who DP has conversation with and what the context and content of those conversations are, and criticize the results. We have a franchise that has built to a decent potential post-first round run twice in 12 years (unfortunate the 06/7 team got knocked off by the Sharks, but 51 wins - no rational person could complain about what the GM did putting that team together), in a non-traditional market, with significant financial limitations, and yet we're in the POs 6 of last 7 years. Our true siblings - Atlanta lost their franchise; Columbus gets in the POs once and is certainly the worst team in the conference if not the entire NHL - think their fans might be happier with what DP and Trotz have been able to do?

Good grief - there are only a handful of franchises that have had measurably more success over the last 7 years then we have. There are VERY few that have grown the talent we have - and those went through consecutive seasons of being the absolute worst team in hockey and got awarded with multiple years of top 5 picks. While we might like to see an ultimately better result - i.e, a "deep run" - it seems inconceivable to make comments about poor investments when they contracts are market level or use an example (that may or may not even be accurate) of dropping out of pursuit of a $5.4mil player in the immediate aftermath of Liarpold.

As for getting back to topic - DP has said he's had serious talks and has a contract on the table for Suter. It's not being disputed by the other side, so it kinda' is up to Ryan as to whether he wants to be in Nash or not. We know DP is willing to pay Shea $7.5 and not whine about it so the $7mil for 7yrs that was floated as offered doesn't seem far-fetched although none of us know for sure. That's a reasonable contract for the market for stud Dmen. So - again - seems ball is in the Captain's court - DP is doing what he can to make that contract work.

As for the rest of the franchise - stable players you complained about - Fish, Leggy, Marty, Horny etc - along with our Dmen twins, have allowed us to let Wilson mature into a bona fide top6 Forward, bring in #15 and #59, bring up #49 and #57, while only losing an over-achieving Joel Ward to free agency; so even if DP truly didn't do his job and even try to find us a free agent, he gave us the prospects to improve that will continue to mature and improve for several years. Those seem like wise investments to me.

Time and time-again, DP has proven to do EXACTLY what your post complained about - make WISE investments. The issue it really seems you're complaining about is that he hasn't made a splashy free agent grab for something much of the fan-base thinks we need and/or would like to see us have. Just cause that desire is there does not mean it's wise. We had Rads; that's a whole nother topic, but that was the scorer we don't have. Doesn't appear we lost him because of DP. Put him on this team - let alone on last years team - what then is the complaint about wise investing?


Perfectly stated.

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01-14-2012, 10:10 AM
  #86
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No, the issue is that DP hasn't gotten the team to the next level, and Suter and Weber are hesitant to sign because of it.

DP said publicly the pricetag got too high for Kessel. And yes there were rumors he only wanted to go to Toronto, not that he really had a say in the matter.

As for all the other justification/rationalization of everythig under the sun... Yes, we are better than Columbus.
Kessel three years ago was unaffordable at anything more than he got from Toronto. The financial picture is a bit different now that we're trying to put together the 09-10 team. Part of that is from better success from off ice revenue streams, part is from increased attendance which simply took time for the new owners to generate. It can't be logically argued that it took increased winning since the team this year is performing nearly identically to previous seasons ... each with a bump at the gate while our 51 win, 110 point season failed to generate 14k average paid.

When facts support the position it ceases to be "justification/rationalization" and becomes a quite reasonable explanation. Applying current reality to past situations doesn't work.

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01-14-2012, 10:20 AM
  #87
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Kessel three years ago was unaffordable at anything more than he got from Toronto. The financial picture is a bit different now that we're trying to put together the 09-10 team. Part of that is from better success from off ice revenue streams, part is from increased attendance which simply took time for the new owners to generate. It can't be logically argued that it took increased winning since the team this year is performing nearly identically to previous seasons ... each with a bump at the gate while our 51 win, 110 point season failed to generate 14k average paid.

When facts support the position it ceases to be "justification/rationalization" and becomes a quite reasonable explanation. Applying current reality to past situations doesn't work.
You can apply "facts" to anything.

If Kessel's price tag was too high, we should have traded one of our many $4+ million men to make room for him.

I'm just using Kessel as an example. It's not limited to him. Now that Poile almost has a mandate to improve the team from Suter/Weber, we are in a tricky position. 1) It's out of Poile's comfort zone to make a big move, unless for a deadline rental. 2) Our options are likely limited because we've put it off for so long.

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01-14-2012, 11:32 AM
  #88
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I would give Suter until 2/15 to sign a contract, then trade him. If he doesn't sign, I'd give Weber until 2/20 to sign a contract, then shop him. If I couldn't trade him for full value, I'd tell him to look for offer sheets in the summer and we will either match or let him go. No more Dan Hamhuis, let the player sit and ride it out and then go walk for free to their new dream job. Particularly for Weber, I'd make no effort to accomodate his desire on where to play.

Winners like Michael Jordon want to show they can take any team to the top. The LeBron's of the world want to join a winner. If these guys need to go to a winner to be a winner instead of making history on their own, let em go. Bobby Orr didn't ask to be a Hab. Bobby Clarke didn't want to be an Islander.

If you want to win, leave. If you want to be a winner, sign.

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01-14-2012, 11:47 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
You can apply "facts" to anything.

If Kessel's price tag was too high, we should have traded one of our many $4+ million men to make room for him.

I'm just using Kessel as an example. It's not limited to him. Now that Poile almost has a mandate to improve the team from Suter/Weber, we are in a tricky position. 1) It's out of Poile's comfort zone to make a big move, unless for a deadline rental. 2) Our options are likely limited because we've put it off for so long.
The Toronto model of personnel management has worked out just how well for the Leafs over the past few years? Bringing in the big splash is doing what in Columbus? It does nothing to make the big deal if it isn't the right move for the team.

The point is that Poile has built an effective TEAM every season. When the money was there to spend we had Kariya, Arnott, and a rental Forsberg. When the budget was extremely tight, he found ways to cobble together a roster that performed with the very players you complain about.

If the "mandate" from Weber and Suter isn't very explicit you then make them a fair offer, and see what is out there for front end improvements between now and the deadline. For example, if their specified "improvement" is Parise ... there are only certain aspects of acquiring him that are in Poile's control. New Jersey isn't going to trade him as long as they're in the hunt and once he hits the open market it may be too late to satisfy the "mandate". Just like Kessel was a bridge too far, Richards/Carter required square pegs when all we had to offer were round, and Brad Richards was only going to the Rangers no matter what we offered ... some moves work, some don't.

Players don't dictate to teams. If they are playing that game, I wish them the Kariya experience of signing with a "contender" and never seeing the post season again.

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01-14-2012, 12:19 PM
  #90
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You can apply "facts" to anything.

If Kessel's price tag was too high, we should have traded one of our many $4+ million men to make room for him.

I'm just using Kessel as an example. It's not limited to him. Now that Poile almost has a mandate to improve the team from Suter/Weber, we are in a tricky position. 1) It's out of Poile's comfort zone to make a big move, unless for a deadline rental. 2) Our options are likely limited because we've put it off for so long.
So rob Peter to pay Paul? And I'm not talking about Forsberg and McCann. So let me get this straight, Poile was supposed to make a move for a RFA who wasn't under contract by trading Wilson and some other prospects, move a $4+ million dollar salary to another team and negotiate a deal for Kessel that would've paid him big money and if he failed to do so, other teams could've offered him a contract and we lose out on Kessel and our prospects. That is career suicide if you're a GM. I like your renegade style and approach but for a team built on limited salary, development and drafting, we couldn't take risks at that point. I think we need to make a move now, trade a few prospects and get an elite forward, even if it's a rental.

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01-14-2012, 12:25 PM
  #91
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aaaand JVR is out indefinetly with a concussion.

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01-14-2012, 12:33 PM
  #92
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For the love of god people stop mentioning Rads. Please. He isn't on the team nor does he help us in anyway at the present. Saying that he is the scorer that this team is missing, while maybe true, doesn't matter because guess what he is missing. until he either laces his skates up for us or is traded, he doesn't matter at all. He has no value to this team right now and until any of us know for sure differently in the future either.

There is a true fundamental difference right now in our fan base: those who are satisfied with the status quo and those who are tired of the status quo and believe our team is ready to be elite. Obviously, I fall into the later camp. We've been building a strong core for years, have three of the best players in the world at their positions, plenty of revenue to make a move, and an overflowing pipeline of NHL ready prospects. Problem is, we have a lot of quantity but not a lot of true elite quality.

While I certainly understand that Poile and Trotz have built an amazing team on such a low budget, if this whole "window of opportunity" crap is real, and that is how management and Poile feel, then start taking calculated risks. Based on everything we have heard, we have the money for Suter and Weber, but they question our ability to be an elite team. We have to keep these guys. If we lose them, we hurt our newly forged reputation around the league, ability to sign free agents because we will still be a "small market team not willing to pay for talent," and even if Rads comes back we would be losing Suter and Weber anyway so what is the point?

I understand that Poile and Trotz have found a winning formula, but they haven't found a championship one. In fact, Poile has never been able to seal the deal as a GM. Again, I understand why some of you are satisfied with the status quo, but it isn't unreasonable for other fans to want to shed the "good team" label and become elite and true cup contenders.

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01-14-2012, 12:57 PM
  #93
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For the love of god people stop mentioning Rads. Please. He isn't on the team nor does he help us in anyway at the present. Saying that he is the scorer that this team is missing, while maybe true, doesn't matter because guess what he is missing. until he either laces his skates up for us or is traded, he doesn't matter at all. He has no value to this team right now and until any of us know for sure differently in the future either.

There is a true fundamental difference right now in our fan base: those who are satisfied with the status quo and those who are tired of the status quo and believe our team is ready to be elite. Obviously, I fall into the later camp. We've been building a strong core for years, have three of the best players in the world at their positions, plenty of revenue to make a move, and an overflowing pipeline of NHL ready prospects. Problem is, we have a lot of quantity but not a lot of true elite quality.

While I certainly understand that Poile and Trotz have built an amazing team on such a low budget, if this whole "window of opportunity" crap is real, and that is how management and Poile feel, then start taking calculated risks. Based on everything we have heard, we have the money for Suter and Weber, but they question our ability to be an elite team. We have to keep these guys. If we lose them, we hurt our newly forged reputation around the league, ability to sign free agents because we will still be a "small market team not willing to pay for talent," and even if Rads comes back we would be losing Suter and Weber anyway so what is the point?

I understand that Poile and Trotz have found a winning formula, but they haven't found a championship one. In fact, Poile has never been able to seal the deal as a GM. Again, I understand why some of you are satisfied with the status quo, but it isn't unreasonable for other fans to want to shed the "good team" label and become elite and true cup contenders.
While I agree with most of what you've said here, I disagree about Rads. The possibility of Radulov in a Preds jersey this year or next is as likely as Parise, Getzlaf, or Ryan in a Preds jersey. And, he should be part of any trade discussions Poile is involved in. We hold his rights. He can score lots of goals. He is an asset with value.

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01-14-2012, 01:04 PM
  #94
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in all respect guys, I think these things have been beaten to death. and I don't think one side is so much more right than the other.. this deadline and offseason will tell us everything. neither sides know what is truly going on.. I do know DP is doing everything in his power to better this franchise.. whether that is good enough is to be seen. as someone else said, if mid february they aren't signing.. maybe try to shop them. its a tough situation and I feel bad for david poile

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01-14-2012, 01:33 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Joetimo View Post
For the love of god people stop mentioning Rads. Please. He isn't on the team nor does he help us in anyway at the present. Saying that he is the scorer that this team is missing, while maybe true, doesn't matter because guess what he is missing. until he either laces his skates up for us or is traded, he doesn't matter at all. He has no value to this team right now and until any of us know for sure differently in the future either.

There is a true fundamental difference right now in our fan base: those who are satisfied with the status quo and those who are tired of the status quo and believe our team is ready to be elite. Obviously, I fall into the later camp. We've been building a strong core for years, have three of the best players in the world at their positions, plenty of revenue to make a move, and an overflowing pipeline of NHL ready prospects. Problem is, we have a lot of quantity but not a lot of true elite quality.

While I certainly understand that Poile and Trotz have built an amazing team on such a low budget, if this whole "window of opportunity" crap is real, and that is how management and Poile feel, then start taking calculated risks. Based on everything we have heard, we have the money for Suter and Weber, but they question our ability to be an elite team. We have to keep these guys. If we lose them, we hurt our newly forged reputation around the league, ability to sign free agents because we will still be a "small market team not willing to pay for talent," and even if Rads comes back we would be losing Suter and Weber anyway so what is the point?

I understand that Poile and Trotz have found a winning formula, but they haven't found a championship one. In fact, Poile has never been able to seal the deal as a GM. Again, I understand why some of you are satisfied with the status quo, but it isn't unreasonable for other fans to want to shed the "good team" label and become elite and true cup contenders.
I haven't seen a single person who doesn't want the team to take that next step. The big issue is in HOW to do it. There's a lot of cost/benefit analysis in play here.

There are always people advocating the high risk, big move. It's sexy, it always comes with name recognition, it's also usually a sink or swim proposition. The Devils went that route with Kovalchuk and they've struggled to make the post season since and are now handcuffed by the cap. Columbus has made repeated moves for the big name player and it's failed for them every time. Toronto went hard after Kessel. As Glenn pointed out, pulling off the Kessel deal in the summer of 09 would have required robbing Peter to pay Paul. Wilson would definitely be gone, maybe Josi or Blum, possibly the pick we packaged in the Fisher deal, plus a roster player to clear cap space.

Neither the Kovy nor the Kessel deals have yet paid off for the NJ or TOR.

The go wild in the FA during the summer route is far from a guarantee either. The Habs went wild in 09 without a huge benefit. Calgary spends to the cap every season without success lately. Big spending is hit or miss. For every Vancouver or Boston there is an Edmonton or Calgary.

Boston's handling of the Kessel situation might be more of a usable model for us after looking at most of the big moves the league has seen over the past few years. They parlayed a disgruntled RFA into picks and players fill their holes, improve their overall roster, and take that next step. As distasteful as that is to some, it could be the wisest move forward for Poile in regards to Weber.

To make an improvement this season means looking at what the Islanders, Oilers, Canes, Ducks, and maybe the Bolts or Bugs are willing to move and at what cost. Parise probably doesn't hit the market as long as the Devils are in the hunt. Iginla doesn't get shopped unless the Flames go into rebuild move very soon. Dallas isn't going to move Jamie Benn. It's going to come down to what the asking price is on a guy like Hemsky, Moulson, or B. Ryan.

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01-14-2012, 02:17 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
So rob Peter to pay Paul? And I'm not talking about Forsberg and McCann. So let me get this straight, Poile was supposed to make a move for a RFA who wasn't under contract by trading Wilson and some other prospects, move a $4+ million dollar salary to another team and negotiate a deal for Kessel that would've paid him big money and if he failed to do so, other teams could've offered him a contract and we lose out on Kessel and our prospects. That is career suicide if you're a GM.
Trading away someone like Arnott (for a return) to make room for Kessel is "career suicide"? If you say so...

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01-14-2012, 02:21 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Trading away someone like Arnott (for a return) to make room for Kessel is "career suicide"? If you say so...
What kind of return was Arnott going to bring? I'm pretty sure the poster you quoted was talking about the Kessel deal in which we were involved.

I thought the Kessel deal was well-known by now. We were in. They wanted Wilson +. We said no. It's pretty much that cut-and-dry.

And not every player has a "return". Even if they do it isn't always worth it

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01-14-2012, 02:26 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Kessel deals have yet paid off for the NJ or TOR.
It doesn't come down to one player. Toronto was in a world of hurt when they traded for Kessel. Likewise, Columbus with Carter.

We have been in a "good position" for years, and but have failed to take the right steps to to get in a "great position".

James Neal is looking like a pretty good pickup for Pittsburgh right now in Crosby's absence. He has double what our leading goal scorer has. And they traded for him because they had depth on D... sounds awfully familiar.

Even if we get the elusive goal scorer, it may not take us to the next level. Right now, we have no real 1st line player (Wilson may be the one in time), so adding one is a start. We are extremely green on the back-end, in part because we've let cheap vets like Zanon or O'Brien walk when they wanted to sign. We need a more steady presence back there past Weber/Suter

We'll see how it plays out... but I hope that Weber/Suter get the convincing they need that the team is head in the contender direction. But it's Poile.. he hasn't been the finals in 27 years as a GM. He's been to the conference finals once. He appears to hold the record for most first round exits as a GM. At this point in his career, he hasn't been able to figure how to build contender.


Last edited by dulzhok: 01-14-2012 at 02:47 PM.
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01-14-2012, 02:42 PM
  #99
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We have depth on D? News to me...

Defensive depth is something we definitely DO NOT have. Not yet at least.

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01-14-2012, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
We have depth on D? News to me...

Defensive depth is something we definitely DO NOT have. Not yet at least.
We have depth on D from an asset point...

But yes, we have less now that we let Hamhuis, Zanon, O'Brien walk.

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