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Old
01-14-2012, 07:36 AM
  #51
crazyd
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We are not that far off from being a solid team and must continue with signing are players long term.

We need to keep in mind that:
Gallagher will replace Gionta in 2 yrs time.
Leblanc should replace Desharnais after next season.
Tinordi will enter the roster in 2 yrs time.
Beaulieu may require up to 3 yrs before entering the roster - by then Marlov will be long gone.

Gomez has to go. Give me some picks and I'm happy.

A part from these guys, no notable prospect will crack the lineup. Weber, Palushaj and Kristo are trade bait as far as I am concerned.

That being said:
We need more muscle on Defense (left side) to be replaced by Tinordi.
We need to find an all around player able to play 2nd and 3rd line duties and good in the dart because unsure Leblanc is suited for pivot position at NHL level.
We need a serious 4th line center as I am not overly satisfied with Nokes

>>> If by trading Gomez we can provide solution to these needs it will be a big +.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Max Pacioretty ($1.625m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Erik Cole ($4.500m)
Andrei Kostitsyn ($3.500m) / Lars Eller ($1.500m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / David Desharnais ($0.850m) / All Around ($2.500m)
Travis Moen ($1.500m) / Face-off Phys. Size ($1.850m) / Ryan White ($0.625m)
/ 4th line energy ($0.600m)

>>> The remaining cap space with the substraction of Gionta's contract (in 2 yrs time) will be enough to pay Patches and Eller.

DEFENSEMEN
Tomas Kaberle ($4.250m) / Josh Gorges ($3.900m)
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Alexei Emelin ($1.500m)
Physical Safe ($2.750m) / P.K. Subban ($2.500m)
Raphael Diaz ($1.500m)

>>> Kaberle's money will go to Emelin and Subban when his contract is up.

GOALTENDERS
Peter Budaj ($1.150m) / Carey Price ($5.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,433,333; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,866,667

So now, what are the candidates?
[All around - Mid 6-9 forward]
Derick Brassard?

[Physical Safe D-man]
Suggestions?

[Faceoff Physical Center]
Suggestions?

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01-14-2012, 07:47 AM
  #52
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Johnny boychuk if he is available

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01-14-2012, 09:11 AM
  #53
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- I don't think we should count on Markov being a top 4 dman when (if) he returns. Hopefully we'll get a chance later this season to see where his level of play is.

- My hunch is that Kostitsyn will be signing elsewhere. Not necessarily the team's choice, more that he'll want to test the market. That's what I'd be advising him, anyway, especially if the Habs' offer is under 4mil or under 6 years, which I think it will be. No source, just my own speculation.

- I predict Gallagher will be a regular by the end of the 2012-13 season.

- I also predict that the Habs will acquire another veteran top 4 dman by trade, not through free agency.

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01-14-2012, 09:21 AM
  #54
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Im curious to see what you guys think, who would you build around more your defence? PK or Shea Weber, take into consideration player age, his cap hit and all.

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01-14-2012, 09:39 AM
  #55
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People need to stop placing Leblanc at centre! Every NHL scout has said he plays more like a winger than a centre and he has only been used as a winger by the Habs organization. They have no plans, nor should they, of playing him at centre.

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01-14-2012, 10:05 AM
  #56
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Realistic "ideal" roster:

-trade gill, campoli, kaberle by the deadline for picks/prospects
- bury Gomez in the summer
- sign T.Gleason @ 4 yrs, 3.9M$/year
- sign J.Slater @ 2 yrs, 1.25M$/year

re-sign:
Subban, 4-5 yrs @ 4.875M$/year (under 5M on 4+ yrs)
Price, 4-6 yrs @ 5.75M$/year (under 6M on 4+ yrs)
Kost, 2-4 yrs @ 4.25M$ (under 4.5M on >4yrs)
Moen, 2-3 yrs @ 1.75M$ (under 2M on >3yrs)
Diaz & Emelin, 2-3 yrs @ 1.25M$
Eller 2 yrs @ 1.75M$



FORWARDS
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Erik Cole ($4.500m) / David Desharnais ($0.850m) / Max Pacioretty ($1.625m)
Travis Moen ($1.500m) / Lars Eller ($1.750m) / Andrei Kostitsyn ($4.250m)
Mike Blunden ($0.750m) / Jim Slater ($1.250m) / Ryan White ($0.625m)

Depth = Leblanc, Palushaj, Engqvist, Gallagher/Kristo?...

DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / P.K. Subban ($4.875m)
Tim Gleason ($3.900m) / Josh Gorges ($3.900m)
Alexei Emelin ($1.250m) / Raphael Diaz ($1.250m)
Yannick Weber ($0.850m)

Depth = Nash, St.Denis, AHL UFA, Beaulieu/Tinordi/Ellis?

GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($5.750m) / Peter Budaj ($1.150m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,108,333; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $5,191,667


I'd be happy going into 2012-2013 with something like that.

It's not awe-inspiring, but there is another depth up front and a solid balance throughout the lineup that with Price backing that group and a solid coaching staff in place, we should compete comfortably for a top-6 spot in the conference.

Keeping ~5M$ in cap space let's us stay in the conversation if any truly elite players become available during the season (Nash? Getzlaf/Perry? Weber?), or to make in-season adjustments to deal with injuries/bolster the deadline

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01-14-2012, 10:08 AM
  #57
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Im going to cry if Price gets 5.75 M $ on the cap ..that's ridiculous amount of money to pay for a goalie who has 1 great year and the rest of his reputation is based on "potential".

That contract has mistake written all over it.

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01-14-2012, 10:21 AM
  #58
Miller Time
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unrealistic, but possible "dream" lineup:
-trade Kost, moen, gill, campoli, kaberle by the deadline for picks/prospects
- bury Gomez in the summer
- sign Z.Parise @ 5yrs 7.25M$/year
- sign R.Suter @ 5yrs 7.25M$/year
- sign J.Halpern @ 2yrs 825K/year

re-sign:
Subban, 4-5 yrs @ 4.875M$/year (under 5M on 4+ yrs)
Price, 4-6 yrs @ 5.75M$/year (under 6M on 4+ yrs)
Diaz & Emelin, 2-3 yrs @ 1.25M$
Eller 2 yrs @ 1.75M$

FORWARDS
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Zach Parise ($7.250m)
Erik Cole ($4.500m) / David Desharnais ($0.850m) / Max Pacioretty ($1.625m)
Louis Leblanc ($1.170m) / Lars Eller ($1.750m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Mike Blunden ($0.750m) / Jeff Halpern ($0.825m) / Ryan White ($0.625m)

Depth- Palushaj, Engqvist, Kristo/Gallagher, AHL UFA

DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Ryan Suter ($7.250m)
P.K. Subban ($4.875m) / Josh Gorges ($3.900m)
Alexei Emelin ($1.250m) / Raphael Diaz ($1.250m)
Yannick Weber ($0.850m)

Depth = Nash, St.Denis, AHL UFA, Beaulieu/Tinordi/Ellis?


GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($5.750m) / Peter Budaj ($1.150m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,703,333; BONUSES: $300,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): -$403,333


we'd need the cap to go up a bit, which it should, and then we'd be in a cap crunch all season long, but man oh man would this be a team that could/should compete for conference supremacy and be deadly in the playoffs.

great goaltending
great top-4 D, and excellent bottom pairing
solid mix of skating/size up front, all top 3 lines being very capable defensively and with enough offensive ability to pose match-up nightmares for most teams.

I'd look at adding a real gritty "pugilistic" type as the 13th forward if possible, to be inserted into the lineup as needed.

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01-14-2012, 10:26 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
unrealistic, but possible "dream" lineup:
-trade Kost, moen, gill, campoli, kaberle by the deadline for picks/prospects
- bury Gomez in the summer
- sign Z.Parise @ 5yrs 7.25M$/year
- sign R.Suter @ 5yrs 7.25M$/year
- sign J.Halpern @ 2yrs 825K/year

re-sign:
Subban, 4-5 yrs @ 4.875M$/year (under 5M on 4+ yrs)
Price, 4-6 yrs @ 5.75M$/year (under 6M on 4+ yrs)
Diaz & Emelin, 2-3 yrs @ 1.25M$
Eller 2 yrs @ 1.75M$

FORWARDS
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Zach Parise ($7.250m)
Erik Cole ($4.500m) / David Desharnais ($0.850m) / Max Pacioretty ($1.625m)
Louis Leblanc ($1.170m) / Lars Eller ($1.750m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Mike Blunden ($0.750m) / Jeff Halpern ($0.825m) / Ryan White ($0.625m)

Depth- Palushaj, Engqvist, Kristo/Gallagher, AHL UFA

DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Ryan Suter ($7.250m)
P.K. Subban ($4.875m) / Josh Gorges ($3.900m)
Alexei Emelin ($1.250m) / Raphael Diaz ($1.250m)
Yannick Weber ($0.850m)

Depth = Nash, St.Denis, AHL UFA, Beaulieu/Tinordi/Ellis?


GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($5.750m) / Peter Budaj ($1.150m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,703,333; BONUSES: $300,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): -$403,333


we'd need the cap to go up a bit, which it should, and then we'd be in a cap crunch all season long, but man oh man would this be a team that could/should compete for conference supremacy and be deadly in the playoffs.

great goaltending
great top-4 D, and excellent bottom pairing
solid mix of skating/size up front, all top 3 lines being very capable defensively and with enough offensive ability to pose match-up nightmares for most teams.

I'd look at adding a real gritty "pugilistic" type as the 13th forward if possible, to be inserted into the lineup as needed.
1 good rookie year, bad 2nd year ..no reason to give him that kind of length and money.

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01-14-2012, 10:30 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
Im going to cry if Price gets 5.75 M $ on the cap ..that's ridiculous amount of money to pay for a goalie who has 1 great year and the rest of his reputation is based on "potential".

That contract has mistake written all over it.
if the team isn't convinced that Price is their long-term #1, then sure...

but in that case they, and I guess you, would be the only ones around the league that can't see that he is clearly one of the top 5-7 goalies in the NHL, and the top 1-2 goalies under 25.

when you have a franchise player, and you are confident in him, you lock him up, plain and simple.

are you going to tell me you wouldn't have signed Stamkos to his monster deal, after "just" 2 years of elite play?

Price has more than enough of a "proven" track record to indicate that he is in the same class as the top goalies in the league.

only reason we, hopefully, won't have to pay him a Rinne'esque premium is b/c he is a RFA. but if you think that means he's going to take less than 5M$ (2M$ less than RInne just got), either you sorely undervalue him, or sorely fail to grasp what agents do for their clients.

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01-14-2012, 10:30 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
1 good rookie year, bad 2nd year ..no reason to give him that kind of length and money.
So Price has had one good year his whole career and Subban has been bad this year?

Well no need to say anything else, I know all I need to about your hockey "knowledge"

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01-14-2012, 10:30 AM
  #62
Miller Time
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Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
1 good rookie year, bad 2nd year ..no reason to give him that kind of length and money.
23min/night, best dman on the team, on pace for another 30+ pt season...

very interesting what you consider "bad".

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01-14-2012, 10:35 AM
  #63
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23min/night, best dman on the team, on pace for another 30+ pt season...

very interesting what you consider "bad".
23 min a night is because our defense is a disaster. If Markov's back, his minutes would drop considerably.

He's RFA, you must use that to your advantage. Just save a million of that contract, add it to Campoli and Gill's salary and suddenly you can afford a 5 m $ defenseman

Markov-5 M $-Subann-Gorges-Emelin+ someone else

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01-14-2012, 10:37 AM
  #64
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Quote:
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if the team isn't convinced that Price is their long-term #1, then sure...

but in that case they, and I guess you, would be the only ones around the league that can't see that he is clearly one of the top 5-7 goalies in the NHL, and the top 1-2 goalies under 25.

when you have a franchise player, and you are confident in him, you lock him up, plain and simple.

are you going to tell me you wouldn't have signed Stamkos to his monster deal, after "just" 2 years of elite play?

Price has more than enough of a "proven" track record to indicate that he is in the same class as the top goalies in the league.

only reason we, hopefully, won't have to pay him a Rinne'esque premium is b/c he is a RFA. but if you think that means he's going to take less than 5M$ (2M$ less than RInne just got), either you sorely undervalue him, or sorely fail to grasp what agents do for their clients.
potential to be but he's not clearly there yet.

You have to agree that he hasn't been as good as last year. We should give him 4.5-5 and not a penny over 5. Another 2 great years then we can pay him 6+ in his next contract.

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01-14-2012, 10:43 AM
  #65
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Guys ,,,Subban is RFA !! he's making 0.875 this year ..you don't give him 500-600% increase in salary!!

maybe 200-250% ..not more! you guys are crazy ..especially with all the turnovers and antics he has.

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01-14-2012, 10:44 AM
  #66
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I doubt we go through another year with Plekanec and Desharnais as our top 2 centers. I just don't see it happening.

Depending on how far we fall and who we end up drafting, 1 of Plekanec and Desharnais will likely be moved. I'd like to see Eller develop another year on the 3rd line, with a little more PP time.

Gomez just can't be back, there's no debate. New CBA buyout or go to Europe... either/or.

But it's time to focus on the centers and really go after a #1... or failing to get an all star center... just get BIGGER and better.

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01-14-2012, 10:51 AM
  #67
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http://capgeek.com/free_agents.php?y...D&fa_type_id=2

List of upcoming UFA dmen.

We already have a lot of young d in the lineup. We may move Gill and Campoli, and Markov is still a big question mark. I was all for re-signing Markov, but the longer he is out the more I worry about him being able to recover his game.

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01-14-2012, 10:56 AM
  #68
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potential to be but he's not clearly there yet.

You have to agree that he hasn't been as good as last year. We should give him 4.5-5 and not a penny over 5. Another 2 great years then we can pay him 6+ in his next contract.
He'll never agree to that. He'll ask for 7mil a year... what do you do ?

We're ****ed, btw, since the Halak trade. We have no one to replace him, so we have to give him what he wants. It's going to be between 6,5 and 7,5 a year for multiple years.

He might be a RFA, but I know a lot of teams that would throw in an offer sheet... and RFA status didn't prevent guys like Doughty to get a crazy big contract.

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01-14-2012, 10:57 AM
  #69
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I doubt we go through another year with Plekanec and Desharnais as our top 2 centers. I just don't see it happening.

Depending on how far we fall and who we end up drafting, 1 of Plekanec and Desharnais will likely be moved. I'd like to see Eller develop another year on the 3rd line, with a little more PP time.

Gomez just can't be back, there's no debate. New CBA buyout or go to Europe... either/or.

But it's time to focus on the centers and really go after a #1... or failing to get an all star center... just get BIGGER and better.
Part of that equation is how much Eller progresses the last 40 games.

He had a slow start with no training cam/preseason. Since December 1st he has 17 GP 6-4-10 with ice time increasing to 18:43 in January.

To me there are two scenarios...

Plan A-Eller puts up 25-28 points in the next 40 games so you go with a balanced 1-3 center set up, using Eller and Plekanec vs top lines. Use extra cap money to add on the wings(since that's where the better UFA's are). LeBlanc and Engqvist can be your options in terms of injuries and struggles.

Plan B-Eller plays at a 3rd line pace 15-20 points. Then maybe look at adding a veteran center(salary dump) to bridge a year or making a big trade for an established but younger guy(high cost though). there are not a ton of options, but maybe some will develop.

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01-14-2012, 10:59 AM
  #70
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He'll never agree to that. He'll ask for 7mil a year... what do you do ?

We're ****ed, btw, since the Halak trade. We have no one to replace him, so we have to give him what he wants. It's going to be between 6,5 and 7,5 a year for multiple years.

He might be a RFA, but I know a lot of teams that would throw in an offer sheet... and RFA status didn't prevent guys like Doughty to get a crazy big contract.
You sign another goalie that's on the market..Vokoun, Biron, Emery

Nobody will give Price an offer sheet because they have to give up 5 things:

1) Cap Space
2) 4 1st round picks!!!

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01-14-2012, 11:05 AM
  #71
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You sign another goalie that's on the market..Vokoun, Biron, Emery

Nobody will give Price an offer sheet because they have to give up 5 things:

1) Cap Space
2) 4 1st round picks!!!
None of them even compare to Price, it would throw this team back even further (difficult to imagine, but very likely).

As for the 4 1st rounders : They would have to ink him to a 7.835millions dollars contract... that ain't gonna happen.

Between 6,2 and 7,8, it'd be 2 1st, a 2nd and a 3rd.

Under 6,2... 1st, 2nd and 3rd...

I wouldn't say no if we had a stud young goalie in the system, but we just traded the only potential no1 goalie... we have nothing...

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01-14-2012, 11:09 AM
  #72
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None of them even compare to Price, it would throw this team back even further (difficult to imagine, but very likely).

As for the 4 1st rounders : They would have to ink him to a 7.835millions dollars contract... that ain't gonna happen.

Between 6,2 and 7,8, it'd be 2 1st, a 2nd and a 3rd.

Under 6,2... 1st, 2nd and 3rd...

I wouldn't say no if we had a stud young goalie in the system, but we just traded the only potential no1 goalie... we have nothing...
Vokoun compares to Price easily:

This year 915 save % - 2.57 GAA
years before:

922 - 2.55
925 - 2.55
926 - 2.49
919 - 2.68
920 - 2.40
919 - 2.67


that's consistency!!

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01-14-2012, 11:10 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
Vokoun compares to Price easily:

This year 915 save % - 2.57 GAA
years before:

922 - 2.55
925 - 2.55
926 - 2.49
919 - 2.68
920 - 2.40
919 - 2.67


that's consistency!!
A got better numbers for you :

07-02-1976

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01-14-2012, 11:12 AM
  #74
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A got better numbers for you :

07-02-1976
don't care ..that's young for a goalie. You sign him to 2-3 years only, not 5 and he won't be getting 4-5 M $ a year ..

so the money you save goes towards a solid defenseman in front of him.

I'm not going to be forced to give Price 6-7 M $ a year ..thats' TOP goalie money and he hasn't proven it yet ..if he holds out, then let him hold out. I'm sending the message to everybody else..

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01-14-2012, 11:16 AM
  #75
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don't care ..that's young for a goalie. You sign him to 2-3 years only, not 5 and he won't be getting 4-5 M $ a year ..

so the money you save goes towards a solid defenseman in front of him.

I'm not going to be forced to give Price 6-7 M $ a year ..thats' TOP goalie money and he hasn't proven it yet ..if he holds out, then let him hold out. I'm sending the message to everybody else..
36yo is young for a goalie ? On what planet do you live ?

This idea that we can work around a goalie with good defencemen is ridiculous, it has worked so well for Philly, right ?

We have a franchise goalie who is young, why on earth would we downgrade at a position (the only ****ing one) that we don't have a problem with ?

Come on ? Why create another problem ? Just give the guy what he wants and try to solve problems instead of creating new ones !!!

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