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Official MLB Thread - Part V (Santana throws first no-hitter in Mets history)

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Old
01-14-2012, 10:59 AM
  #201
GWOW
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Originally Posted by Ruotsalainen29 View Post
He has proven more than Montero has, that's for sure. Montero is a bat without a position, albeit a potentially great bat. This is a GREAT trade because Pineda is the real deal. Pitchers like him don't come along very often and he is under financial control for a few years which is very important as well. I am the biggest Montero fanboy around but the fact remains that he is a DH. Bats are much easier to find than arms, plus we have Gary Sanchez on the way who will be a better all around player than Montero.
Playing in NYC on a NYC team should be a seperate split.

Montero came up here with three years of hype, hype and hype.

And what did he do?

He hit .349 (including playoffs) with an OPS just over 1.000 during a crucial and tight pennant chase.

He hit .417 with a homer and 4 RBI in 12 at bats against the Red Sox.

Let's see what Pineda does when he has to face the lefty-heavy Boston lineup -- 7 runs in 4 innings in his only start against Boston.

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01-14-2012, 11:05 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Playing in NYC on a NYC team should be a seperate split.

Montero came up here with three years of hype, hype and hype.

And what did he do?

He hit .349 (including playoffs) with an OPS just over 1.000 during a crucial and tight pennant chase.

He hit .417 with a homer and 4 RBI in 12 at bats against the Red Sox.

Let's see what Pineda does when he has to face the lefty-heavy Boston lineup -- 7 runs in 4 innings in his only start against Boston.
Your basing your opinion from one start? Pineda is almost universally acknowledged in baseball circles as a future ace and he should only get better. As much as I like Montero, this trade is a no brainer. This kid has electric stuff and great control as well. Great pitching almost always trumps great hitting.

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01-14-2012, 11:30 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Ruotsalainen29 View Post
Your basing your opinion from one start? Pineda is almost universally acknowledged in baseball circles as a future ace and he should only get better. As much as I like Montero, this trade is a no brainer. This kid has electric stuff and great control as well. Great pitching almost always trumps great hitting.
I've heard this million times with other former young pitchers. I can give you bunch of names that didn't pan out. It's really a 50/50 chance.


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01-14-2012, 11:35 AM
  #204
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I've heard million times with other former young pitchers. I can give you bunch of names that didn't pan out. It's really a 50/50 chance.
So you stop trying to stockpile great pitching? Is it a risk? Sure. Nothing is guaranteed but a potential ace is more valuable than a potential stud bat without a position.


This is a good article that breaks down the trade and the Yanks going into the season.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slu...montero_011312

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01-14-2012, 11:37 AM
  #205
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So you stop trying to stockpile great pitching? Is it a risk? Sure. Nothing is guaranteed but a potential ace is more valuable than a potential stud bat without a position.


This is a good article that breaks down the trade and the Yanks going into the season.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slu...montero_011312
Either way, we're going to find out within 2-3 years.

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01-14-2012, 11:46 AM
  #206
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Either way, we're going to find out within 2-3 years.
Yup. Trades are never won/lost the day after they are made. We can always just sign Montero in a few years after he develops out on the farm (Seattle)

There are worse things in the baseball world that we could be discussing. We could be the Mets.

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01-14-2012, 11:48 AM
  #207
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For his career? Yeah I think it's a pretty good indication. Look at the Yankees track record in signing pitchers with .500 or sub-500 records (Pavano, Wright, AJ)
Win/Loss record is not just a bad indicator for a pitcher's worth, it isn't even an indicator. This is really a pointless discussion to get into, but suffice it to say the pitcher has no bearing on how many runs his team scores.

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01-14-2012, 11:51 AM
  #208
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So he's under contract for the next 5 seasons. The Yankees are in win now mode. And a given entity is worth less than a prospect who may or may not pan out? If Pineda becomes half the pitcher Lee is, the Yankees will be thrilled.
The Yankees are always going to be in win-now mode. It doesn't mean that young, controllable and talented players aren't of use to them. They also tried to sign Lee, and he wasn't coming here. Your original point was based on the fact that they gave up more for Pineda than they would have for Lee. Pineda is worth more because you will get many more years out of him, at a far cheaper salary (can spend those dollars elsewhere), for 70% of the production.

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01-14-2012, 12:07 PM
  #209
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On the bright side, they deleted Colon and Hughes. So the staff is better.

DH is an issue now. I guess they can find that anywhere.

Damon? LOL

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Old
01-14-2012, 12:13 PM
  #210
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I really hope this doesn't mean Cashman goes out there and offer Fielder a fat contract. I doubt it,considering the rumors that they want to cut payroll to stay under the new luxury tax. Just the thought of having Fielder, CC, Tex, A-Rod all still here in 3-5 years on huge contracts would be sickening.

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01-14-2012, 12:18 PM
  #211
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They've done a very poor job of developing high end talent. Making those pitchers into legit front line starters.

They ruined Joba and Hughes. The potential is there for them to ruin Pineda.

This is a kid that still needs developing. He's basically a prospect with 1 year of ML experience.

I have no faith in the Yankees making him into the stud that he's suppose to be.

Based on their track record, they'll probably turn him into a reliever...

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01-14-2012, 12:21 PM
  #212
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Kuroda and Pineda in the rotation so its Burnett gondie?

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01-14-2012, 12:23 PM
  #213
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Kuroda and Pineda in the rotation so its Burnett gondie?
He better be.

I can see the Yanks eating most of his contract (they'd have too, anyways) just to get rid of this headcase.

CC
Pineda
Kuroda
Nova
Hughes/Garcia

Very solid.

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01-14-2012, 12:32 PM
  #214
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Fielder eont ber coming here unless Boras agrees to a short-term deal. Getting Fielder brings them well over 225 million and their luxury tax hit would be around 20 million

Pena is an idea but he wants to field. Considering they got zilch from the DH for four months, anyone will suffice.

I love Pinedas stuff. Campos was rated the M's 5th best prosPect, and since they have sucked for so long, he'd be ranked 1 or 2 on a better team's list.


I'm just concerned over the expectations and heat he'd take if he struggles early.

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01-14-2012, 12:36 PM
  #215
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When is Montero a FA?


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01-14-2012, 12:53 PM
  #216
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They need to either play Nunez or deal him. He's too valuable a piece to rot on the bench.

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01-14-2012, 01:27 PM
  #217
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They need to either play Nunez or deal him. He's too valuable a piece to rot on the bench.
he got over 300 at bats last year...

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01-14-2012, 01:31 PM
  #218
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Nunez had 20 errors last year, that's bad for a utility infielder. A-Rod and Jeter are better than him defensively.

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01-14-2012, 01:36 PM
  #219
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he got over 300 at bats last year...
Great. More of the same. I want him to be a starter, not a guy who gets starts because Arod is hurt all the time. I really like this kid and I think we should DH Arod and start Nunez at third

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Nunez had 20 errors last year, that's bad for a utility infielder. A-Rod and Jeter are better than him defensively.
True, he did have alot of errors, but I think he's an excellent hitter and has the tools athletically to be a very good fielder as well. Nunez was actually known for his glove coming up through the system. I just think it's hard to settle in bouncing from position to position and going in and out of the lineup depending on health. Trust me, you give Nunez 140 games and he'll be a very solid fielder.

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01-14-2012, 02:36 PM
  #220
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Win/Loss record is not just a bad indicator for a pitcher's worth, it isn't even an indicator. This is really a pointless discussion to get into, but suffice it to say the pitcher has no bearing on how many runs his team scores.
He had a run support average of 5.26. His teammate who tied for the league lead in wins and who won the Cy Young had a run support average of 5.52.

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01-14-2012, 03:42 PM
  #221
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Those who bring up Nunez - you may well have the answer as to the DH.

If you're not going to trade him (and the rumors before the holidays were that he'd go to ATL for Jurjens) and keep Montero as your DH - then, now that you've flipped it and traded Montero, why wouldn't you now KEEP Nunez and play him as your DH?

He doesn't project to be quite the dominant bat that Jesus did, but he's a damn fine hitter and he can at least can play the field, even if he's not currently a world beater (although as another poster said I too remember him being described as better defensively coming up through the system). Using him allows you to rotate Jeter/ARod/Nunez at SS/3B/DH. Very interesting...

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01-14-2012, 09:14 PM
  #222
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For his career? Yeah I think it's a pretty good indication. Look at the Yankees track record in signing pitchers with .500 or sub-500 records (Pavano, Wright, AJ)

Kuroda had poor run support in LA (3/4 seasons in bottom-30 in run support). Hard to win more than lose when offense doesnt provide runs. Plus it's only a 1 year deal, he's a stop gap. Not sure why you mentioned Pavano, Wright and AJ - Kuroda situation is nothing like that.

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01-14-2012, 09:42 PM
  #223
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When is Montero a FA?

It's very possible he'll leave when he can.

Safeco does not play to his strengths.

My guess is that he'll hate it.

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01-14-2012, 10:18 PM
  #224
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I completely blame Cashman. How you could have a 180 Million dollar payroll with just one bonafide pitcher (Sabathia) is incomprehensible. There never should have been a need for a front line starter.

The trade in itself isn't bad, just hard to swallow.

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01-14-2012, 11:57 PM
  #225
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I completely blame Cashman. How you could have a 180 Million dollar payroll with just one bonafide pitcher (Sabathia) is incomprehensible. There never should have been a need for a front line starter.

The trade in itself isn't bad, just hard to swallow.
eh? Id say Nova is bonafide. and Hughes should have been going into last season. hes complete failure wasnt foreseen by anyone.

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