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Sportsnet Magazine: Inside The Long Pathetic Fall Of The Once Great Canadiens Empire

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Old
01-14-2012, 12:55 PM
  #176
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by bjac View Post
I agree that they need a direction. I just don't see it as black and white. The reality is that I don't think that Montreal will ever do a full tank rebuild like Edmonton, but they can still rebuild to a degree. I think things will be unclear until this summer when either Gauthier is given another chance or someone else is brought into rebuild. I personally hope it is the latter.
I don't even think an Edmonton style rebuild is possible with the young players we have now. But we could definitely rebuild with picks and trading for prospects. We haven't made a concerted effort to get top picks since the 70s.
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Originally Posted by bjac View Post
About Gainey, people to like rip on him but he pulled this team out of the gutter and put it back on the road. Sure they didn't enjoy anything more than moderate success, but he didn't have much to work with when he inherited the team. I personally wouldn't mind him as an interm GM much like Cliff Fletcher with the Leafs was. As long as his roll is to sell and develop, I think he'd be a great choice for the short term. He'd also bring a sense of stability to the management, which is one of his better qualities.
Like I said, in his first half Gainey tried to do both. He actually was able to get us into the playoffs consistently and also managed to stock us full with good (not great but good) prospects. Ultimately, I didn't think he went far enough on the rebuilding side of things but I appreciated his efforts. At least he seemed to have a plan.

Then in the second half of his tenure...
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Originally Posted by bjac View Post
The selection of the next long term GM is very important and I think the Habs should take their time. Of course, if there is a long term candidate immediately available, absolutely hire the person on the spot, but if they are having a tough time finding the right man then Gainey could fill the void until the right GM surfaces.

I imagine there are plenty who would hate to see him back (and I'm sure I'll hear about it ), but under the right conditions, I think Gainey coud really help the organization as an interm if one is needed.
I'm not sure what the club does right now. We're in such disarray at the top I'm nervous about what's coming next. I know a lot of people think Patrick Roy is the guy to bring in and Molson might just go along with it because it's a popular choice but I think there's a strong possibility that he could do a lot of damage to us.

Bottom line is ownership has to decide what it wants to do. Is it winning a cup or just making quick cash? Ego plays a huge role and I don't think anyone knows what's going on in Molson's head. We're all hoping he wants to win a cup again but maybe he's the next Harold Ballard.

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01-14-2012, 12:57 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
You said, and I quote :



I effectively proved this wrong. I also showed your example of Chiarelli to be far from what Pollock did in his time, and that it had more to do with a snag that the Bruins caught themselves in.

Prime example why I will not respect you in anyway. Instead of admitting you were wrong, you try to extend what you said to something different. Almost every argument you gave is either confabulated, twisted or put out of context. You use absolutisms, sophistry and just blatant cop outs. To me, that smacks of immaturity, for which, with age, I've grown increasingly impatient of.

For someone who spouts Feynman and Chomsky, you seem invariably stuck in a loop of pseudo arguments, which any smart person would find appalling and absurd. That's called intellectual integrity, the opposite of what you are doing, not to give out any names that you would feel is condescending or an attack on your level of intelligence.
You are a pathetic, irritating person. I have a hunch, I can't prove it, but I have a hunch that you are in absolutely no control over your life. You tend to enjoy making attacks at people's intelligence, tend to overstate the nature of your person with statements like "it's just impossible in so many ways," and constantly refer to an "impatience" or "frustration" with other people. This leads me to believe that you are a small person of stature: either professionally, physically, sexually, or all three.

This isn't anything from Freud, either. This is a lesson from real-life. People who have things going their way in their lives aren't "impatient" and "frustrated," don't feel the need to overstate the nature of their grandure to complete strangers on the internet, and definitely aren't disrespectful ***** on the internet towards complete strangers.

You're nothing but a chicken hawk. You don't talk this way in real life because you can't. Someone; be it your wife, your boss, or anyone in the vicinity who is higher on the pecking order than you; namely, a lot of people; would stop you.

Having read Lafleur's Guy's post, which was responding to your original post, there's nothing further to be said. All of your arguments are pretty thoroughly refuted there. There's a few points to be made on top of it, but I scarcely think that they would convince you or any of your followers anyways.

Please have yourself a horrible day.

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Old
01-14-2012, 01:56 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Doesn't have to be black and white. But for the love of God, the club needs to pick a direction. Are we 'going for it now?' or are we going to 'build for the future?'
Personally I am loosing faith in Molson looks to me like he was too caught up in pushing this team for playoff revenue and not really seeing the big picture. I guess I can't blame him but really he wants the money and the team had potential but PG did not have the right parts in the right places. Gaineys teams while considerd average were complete.

PG should have been fired instead of Martin and they could have brought in someone to start selling parts off to prepare for the new GM and direction. My vote would be Gainey, I thought he did pretty well considering what he inherited.

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Old
01-14-2012, 01:57 PM
  #179
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In resume......Yes it is a much bigger fall than any of the other teams 'cause we are actually falling from much higher? Fair?

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01-14-2012, 02:17 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
In resume......Yes it is a much bigger fall than any of the other teams 'cause we are actually falling from much higher? Fair?
I started a thread on this on the main page which was somewhat tongue in cheek and it blew up. Some fans here will whine that I made the fanbase look bad, but it was basically a kernel of truth wrapped in several layers of pompous sarcasm.

However, it did confirm once again that people care about the Habs failing more than they do about most team doing well. And it also proves that teams like Boston will never, ever feel like they are out from the Habs shadow, no matter what they say to make themselves feel better.

And that's why I am arrogant as a Habs fan. I'm from Montreal and I've rooted for the team for years, through the good and the bad but I know that no matter how bad it gets, we'll always have a target on our back and we'll always be the biggest thing in the sport, no matter what.

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01-14-2012, 02:21 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
You are a pathetic, irritating person. I have a hunch, I can't prove it, but I have a hunch that you are in absolutely no control over your life. You tend to enjoy making attacks at people's intelligence, tend to overstate the nature of your person with statements like "it's just impossible in so many ways," and constantly refer to an "impatience" or "frustration" with other people. This leads me to believe that you are a small person of stature: either professionally, physically, sexually, or all three.

This isn't anything from Freud, either. This is a lesson from real-life. People who have things going their way in their lives aren't "impatient" and "frustrated," don't feel the need to overstate the nature of their grandure to complete strangers on the internet, and definitely aren't disrespectful ***** on the internet towards complete strangers.

You're nothing but a chicken hawk. You don't talk this way in real life because you can't. Someone; be it your wife, your boss, or anyone in the vicinity who is higher on the pecking order than you; namely, a lot of people; would stop you.

Having read Lafleur's Guy's post, which was responding to your original post, there's nothing further to be said. All of your arguments are pretty thoroughly refuted there. There's a few points to be made on top of it, but I scarcely think that they would convince you or any of your followers anyways.

Please have yourself a horrible day.


don't let him bother you... ignore is much more useful. same crappy posts and constantly refuted arguments for years, doesn't contribute anything of value to interesting discussions.

not worth your time.

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Old
01-14-2012, 02:23 PM
  #182
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by KingAvtsin View Post
I started a thread on this on the main page which was somewhat tongue in cheek and it blew up. Some fans here will whine that I made the fanbase look bad, but it was basically a kernel of truth wrapped in several layers of pompous sarcasm.

However, it did confirm once again that people care about the Habs failing more than they do about most team doing well. And it also proves that teams like Boston will never, ever feel like they are out from the Habs shadow, no matter what they say to make themselves feel better.

And that's why I am arrogant as a Habs fan. I'm from Montreal and I've rooted for the team for years, through the good and the bad but I know that no matter how bad it gets, we'll always have a target on our back and we'll always be the biggest thing in the sport, no matter what.
I'd still like to see us win a cup again.

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Old
01-14-2012, 02:25 PM
  #183
Richiebottles
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I'd still like to see us win a cup again.
We all would. But being proud of your heritage and how big a deal the team is isn't about "living in the past" like other fanbases try to claim it is. It's about right now.

Right now were the biggest thing in the sport and our team is terrible. But that makes me happy and it chaps the ***** of our rivals so badly that it makes it even better.

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Old
01-14-2012, 02:36 PM
  #184
Miller Time
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Or how pathetic Boston was in 1997, 2006, 2007. Philadelphia in 2007. Bad years happen to good franchises.
that's true, but the difference is that they are "good" franchises precisely b/c their bad years are contrasted with several "great" years:

Boston
01-02- 101 pts
03-04- 104 pts
08-09- 116 pts
10-11- 103pts
11-12 on pace for 100+pts


Philly
99-00- 105pts
00-01- 100 pts
02-03- 107 pts
03-04- 101 pts

*04-05 lockout, can't speculate, but given pre-post results, strong likelihood they'd have been~100pts

05-06- 101 pts
08-09- 99 pts
10-11- 106pts


when you have that kind of relatively consistent success (over half season's in a decade with ~100pts), it makes it a bit easier to accept the few average/bad/really bad seasons sprinkled in btw.

in contrast, habs have just 1 100+ pt season in the past 20 years... 20 years!!!


bad years (bad luck) happens to good franchises, it happens to everyone, but the habs have been consistently a bad/mediocre franchise for the past 2 decades with 2-3 years of really good luck...

give me the Flyers/Bruins model of operating over ours in the same time span 10/10...

it's the difference btw being well run and being poorly run, even if the Flyers haven't been able to translate that into the absolute success of a cup (2 finals, 3 conference finals in the past 20 years is disappointing given the 8 100+pt seasons in that span... but ultimately winning it all does require a dose of luck... doesn't diminish how effective they've been at running a consistently successful franchise)

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01-14-2012, 02:45 PM
  #185
Richiebottles
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
that's true, but the difference is that they are "good" franchises precisely b/c their bad years are contrasted with several "great" years:

Boston
01-02- 101 pts
03-04- 104 pts
08-09- 116 pts
10-11- 103pts
11-12 on pace for 100+pts


Philly
99-00- 105pts
00-01- 100 pts
02-03- 107 pts
03-04- 101 pts

*04-05 lockout, can't speculate, but given pre-post results, strong likelihood they'd have been~100pts

05-06- 101 pts
08-09- 99 pts
10-11- 106pts


when you have that kind of relatively consistent success (over half season's in a decade with ~100pts), it makes it a bit easier to accept the few average/bad/really bad seasons sprinkled in btw.

in contrast, habs have just 1 100+ pt season in the past 20 years... 20 years!!!


bad years (bad luck) happens to good franchises, it happens to everyone, but the habs have been consistently a bad/mediocre franchise for the past 2 decades with 2-3 years of really good luck...

give me the Flyers/Bruins model of operating over ours in the same time span 10/10...

it's the difference btw being well run and being poorly run, even if the Flyers haven't been able to translate that into the absolute success of a cup (2 finals, 3 conference finals in the past 20 years is disappointing given the 8 100+pt seasons in that span... but ultimately winning it all does require a dose of luck... doesn't diminish how effective they've been at running a consistently successful franchise)
The article was trying to stay that the Habs were bad AND they didn't matter anymore.

Are they bad? Yes? Do they not matter? HELL NO. That's just ridiculous BS.

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Old
01-14-2012, 03:51 PM
  #186
Whitesnake
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Originally Posted by KingAvtsin View Post
I started a thread on this on the main page which was somewhat tongue in cheek and it blew up. Some fans here will whine that I made the fanbase look bad, but it was basically a kernel of truth wrapped in several layers of pompous sarcasm.

However, it did confirm once again that people care about the Habs failing more than they do about most team doing well. And it also proves that teams like Boston will never, ever feel like they are out from the Habs shadow, no matter what they say to make themselves feel better.

And that's why I am arrogant as a Habs fan. I'm from Montreal and I've rooted for the team for years, through the good and the bad but I know that no matter how bad it gets, we'll always have a target on our back and we'll always be the biggest thing in the sport, no matter what.
YOU DO NOT start a thread about Habs, their fans or any other things that looks like it 'cause this main board is filled with people who as their only pleasure love to gather around the same subject which is the Habs bashing. You gave them a subject to do just that. And the Mods in this main board seems to not condemn this.

In all honesty, it was not your greatest moment. Everybody has a right to say whatever, but you don't have to give his main board a reason to bash the team and its fans. There was a thread about the class the Habs showed towards Halak and you had plenty of people trying to turn things around. So imagine a thread like the one you started. Anyway, not going to lose any sleep over what they think of us. Yet, it is just sad to see.

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01-14-2012, 03:59 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by KingAvtsin View Post
The article was trying to stay that the Habs were bad AND they didn't matter anymore.

Are they bad? Yes? Do they not matter? HELL NO. That's just ridiculous BS.
agreed.

but if the organization goes another 15 years as completely inept and poorly run as the past 15 years, who knows where it will be.

people might think i'm crazy, but with the Impact just making their first draft pick in the MLS, we have what quite possibly could become the first step in the demise of the habs as THE montreal sports authority.

if the Impact can build an excellent franchise, and the MLS continues it's rapid expansion into the N.A pro sports market, it may not be that long before soccer, not hockey, is the biggest ticket in town.

Habs have to "ignore" the security of their history and start focusing on a return to excellence in the way they run their team, not just their business.

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01-14-2012, 11:25 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
agreed.

but if the organization goes another 15 years as completely inept and poorly run as the past 15 years, who knows where it will be.

people might think i'm crazy, but with the Impact just making their first draft pick in the MLS, we have what quite possibly could become the first step in the demise of the habs as THE montreal sports authority.

if the Impact can build an excellent franchise, and the MLS continues it's rapid expansion into the N.A pro sports market, it may not be that long before soccer, not hockey, is the biggest ticket in town.

Habs have to "ignore" the security of their history and start focusing on a return to excellence in the way they run their team, not just their business.
If we want to be recognized as the class of the league, we can't rest on our laurels. The centenial celebrations were great, we've got a fantastic history and wonderful legacy behind us. Now it's time to start focusing on the here and now.

Are we good enough to win a cup? No. So... rebuild. Sorry, but people who sit there and say 'we can't do this! we're the Montreal Canadiens!' don't know what they're talking about. Of all the teams in the league we are the ones who CAN afford to rebuild. We have the scouting staff, some prospects in hand already and we've got the fanbase, corporate sponsorship and TV revenues to support us.

It's time we get over the attitude of 'we're too good to do that..." The fact is, there's nothing wrong with rebuilding. It's how most teams win. I'd just prefer we do it with our heads up and eyes open rather than do it kicking and screaming the way some other unintentional rebuilds have happened. If we do it that way - the smart way - we accelerate the process and probably make it more effective. We haven't had a superstar on this club in eons. That HAS to change if we want to win. And these fantasies about us going out and ripping off another club for their superstar just isn't likely to happen. UFAs haven't been friendly to us and superstars in their prime don't usually become UFAs anyway unless it's under some kind of weird circumstance. Regardless, I don't see how we land those players anyway.

The powers that be have to accept that we aren't good enough now to win a cup, nor will we in the immediate future. Until they get that through their heads, we are probably going nowhere.

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Old
01-15-2012, 01:27 AM
  #189
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I would really like to see their next piece:
The Toronto Maple Leafs -- Just sad and pathetic


as if was deftly put above, it's stuff Toronto fans can jack off too. I don't think anyone of them will be reading it as a piece of information. They'll just salivate any time an overtly negative thing is said about us to hide their own sadness. For us, it's reading an analysis of what we already know.

Personally, I saw some fight in the team tonight, and while I didn't believe that number 93 was a cancer in the room, it honestly seems like the players are doing better with him gone. It's not our season, but I really think (baring the continued level of freakish injury) we are going to start to become the team we'll all be proud of and will become "relevant" again. As if the past decade has been that bad being a fan (before that was awful). What teams are supposedly relevant anyway aside from those that win the Cup, and on top of that, there has been very little repeat aside from NJ, Detroit and Colorado (Pitt to the finals twice, Stars too...actually Ducks too). Detroit is still the closest thing to a dynasty in recent times and apart from the last two series, we've been quite relevant to Boston's playoffs. Anyway, the future looks brighter to me at least.

just to add, I wasn't of this opinion until quite recently, but I am starting to agree with Lafleurs guy's opinion.

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01-15-2012, 04:01 AM
  #190
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We need a face for our franchise. I feel like most fans don't know who to identify to, or feel like the canadiens don't represent them anymore.

Even a young talent such as grigorenko would have no relevance. Not even Giroux. We'd need a Crosby-like quebecer, or a Patrick Roy.

Or maybe the lack of heart the team is currently showing is making me blind.

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01-15-2012, 06:51 AM
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
agreed.

but if the organization goes another 15 years as completely inept and poorly run as the past 15 years, who knows where it will be.

people might think i'm crazy, but with the Impact just making their first draft pick in the MLS, we have what quite possibly could become the first step in the demise of the habs as THE montreal sports authority.

if the Impact can build an excellent franchise, and the MLS continues it's rapid expansion into the N.A pro sports market, it may not be that long before soccer, not hockey, is the biggest ticket in town.

Habs have to "ignore" the security of their history and start focusing on a return to excellence in the way they run their team, not just their business.

MLS is going to need to be more than the 25th best soccer league in the world for that to happen. If the Expos were still in Montreal, then maybe.

But you'll see a softening of demand either way if they continue to stink. The Habs charge a lot of money for tickets, people are not going to pay it to see a bunch of overpaid mediocre players struggle their way to 12th in the conference. There are other places in Montreal to spend your money.

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01-15-2012, 06:56 AM
  #192
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Don't you find it a little bit odd that a guy like Subban raised in a Toronto suburb wants to play here but plenty of francophone players who grew up Habs fans don't? Is it common for people to not want to play for their home city/province/state/etc? As a Montrealer and big habs fan, I must say it seems common from where I'm looking.
You've just put your fingers on the button. Daniel Brière replied to that pretty clearly a few weeks ago on L'Antichambre.

When he was a free agent and had to chose between Philadelphia and Montreal, he looked at both teams and saw 2 things :

1- He had much more friends in Philadelphia : Gagné, Biron, Gauthier, Laperrière, etc.

2- On paper, Philadelphia looked like the the team that had the better chance at going far in the playoffs. (we can't deny that)

In other words, Brière has nothing against Montreal and he would have loved to play here. But it would have worked if :

1- The Habs had been dedicated, as they were in the past, to be Quebec's team and to build its identity around star players from Quebec.

2- The Habs had been dedicated to winning. If the management clearly had a vision of what the team needs to be successful on the long run, instead of always trying to win with spare parts that are being traded and released year in and year out.

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01-15-2012, 08:18 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
You've just put your fingers on the button. Daniel Brière replied to that pretty clearly a few weeks ago on L'Antichambre.

When he was a free agent and had to chose between Philadelphia and Montreal, he looked at both teams and saw 2 things :

1- He had much more friends in Philadelphia : Gagné, Biron, Gauthier, Laperrière, etc.

2- On paper, Philadelphia looked like the the team that had the better chance at going far in the playoffs. (we can't deny that)

In other words, Brière has nothing against Montreal and he would have loved to play here. But it would have worked if :

1- The Habs had been dedicated, as they were in the past, to be Quebec's team and to build its identity around star players from Quebec.

2- The Habs had been dedicated to winning. If the management clearly had a vision of what the team needs to be successful on the long run, instead of always trying to win with spare parts that are being traded and released year in and year out.

The problem is 1 and 2 is not comparable. If you want this to be an ethnic team that's your dream, but then give up any illusions of winning. The Quebec talent pool has never been smaller.

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01-15-2012, 01:02 PM
  #194
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now Ottawa taking shots

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/enterta...#ixzz1jWjxNCJU

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01-15-2012, 01:22 PM
  #195
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Thing is, it's not just that we haven't won a cup. It's that we haven't iced good teams. Moreover, we seem to be going the wrong way.

We're not an up and coming club, we don't have elite level prospects, we're always treading water and putting out bubble teams. These kinds of articles wouldn't be written if we were still putting out great teams but not winning cups.

It's one thing to not win cups, it's a whole other ballgame to have no chance at them whatsoever and that's the situation we've been in for a long time. We don't get great players and we don't put out great teams. IF (and that's a big IF) management/ownership cares about winning a cup, then we've got to make radical changes. The group we have now isn't taking us anywhere except to maybe 8th place.

I know it sucks to read these kinds of articles but if that's what it takes to wake management up then maybe this is a good thing.

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01-15-2012, 01:30 PM
  #196
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The article was trying to stay that the Habs were bad AND they didn't matter anymore.

Are they bad? Yes? Do they not matter? HELL NO. That's just ridiculous BS.
I don't think you understand what they mean by 'matters'.

We haven't been a consistent threat in over 15 years. We've had flashes in the pan (07-08 season and some decent upsets in the playoffs), but overall, no team in the NHL will likely talk about going up against Montreal and player(s) X (Y, Z, etc.), no player on the free agent market is saying he wants to be in Montreal to win a Cup, to play with player X (spare me the media BS), and so on.

Montreal has been a middling team for most of the past 2 decades. It's hardly surprising that someone says that Montreal doesn't really matter at the moment or has mattered over that period. Yes, Montreal has big revenues, a rich history and tons of media coverage, but when it comes to what's happening on the ice and in the standings, Montreal has hardly been of relevance since the '93 cup run.

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01-15-2012, 02:56 PM
  #197
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interesting read, can't argue with most of the facts stated there.

To say the habs are no longer relevant, however is both ironic and contradictory. If in fact the franchise is irrelevant then why waste a lengthy article on them. Ludicrous statement, by writing it he guarantees more readership for a rag I'd never heard of until 20 minutes ago.

If the Habs are irrelevant and the standard is cups in recent memory then the leafs are are amoebas. The majority of franchises are themselves then irrelevant and Carolina, TB, and ANA are more relevant to the long term viability of the league. Forget the fact that the habs generate more revenue than those 3 teams combined.

Of course its easy to kick the habs while we're down. Lets not forget though that we're only 2 years removed from the ECF and 4 years from winning the east. It's not like the team hasn't had some success, just not the kind that we're used to. We have a higher standard and unfortunately we've not lived up to that in several years (or decades). The cups wins of 86 and 93 were due in large part to Roy of course.... but... in the 80's we always iced superior teams that didn't win. Getting out of the Adams division was a war. Hartford had decent teams at the time and rarely made the playoffs let alone win a series. One of the reasons Boston hates us so much is because we met them virtually every year. Usually we had to beat Boston then Quebec or vice/versa only to have a well rested less bruised NYI/Pit/ on the other side. Winning in 86 and 93 was a war and not a fluke.

Its funny that he uses the Langway trade as a watermark.... Ryan Walter says hi. Yes we lost a great D.

The turn of the franchise was the Wickenheiser draft. Had we taken Savard, not only would we have had Savard but we'd also have kept Chelios. Chelios was allowed to walk because it was felt Schneider was ready.... he wasn't. And who was the architect of those trades, Serge Savard.

Ironically Savard did most of the nastiest damage to the team. Being the Captain here in the early 90's was a guaranteed trade.

Chelios
Carboneau
Keane
Turgeon
Muller

All departed under Savards leadership. What was the catalyst? I remember the Chelios/Carbo experiment. 2 Captains one at home one on the road. An appeasement for the ruling PQ at the time. A political compromise. Ironic that one of the first french GM's of the habs and a former Captain is in fact largely responsible for creating the demise of the franchise.

The real culprit in all of this is the language debate and the media. If in fact the french need the Canadiens to be an extension of their culture in order for self validation then the habs are doomed to mediocracy, and then perhaps irrelevance. This need for a french coach or gm so the people of the Quebec can relate to their team is ridiculous and insulting. Imagine if they also had a necessity for that coach or GM to be white to reflect the majority of the populace..... I digress.

The habs will be around and relevant far longer than Sportnet Mag.

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Old
01-15-2012, 03:30 PM
  #198
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by habfaninvictoria View Post
interesting read, can't argue with most of the facts stated there.

To say the habs are no longer relevant, however is both ironic and contradictory. If in fact the franchise is irrelevant then why waste a lengthy article on them. Ludicrous statement, by writing it he guarantees more readership for a rag I'd never heard of until 20 minutes ago.

If the Habs are irrelevant and the standard is cups in recent memory then the leafs are are amoebas. The majority of franchises are themselves then irrelevant and Carolina, TB, and ANA are more relevant to the long term viability of the league. Forget the fact that the habs generate more revenue than those 3 teams combined.

Of course its easy to kick the habs while we're down. Lets not forget though that we're only 2 years removed from the ECF and 4 years from winning the east. It's not like the team hasn't had some success, just not the kind that we're used to. We have a higher standard and unfortunately we've not lived up to that in several years (or decades). The cups wins of 86 and 93 were due in large part to Roy of course.... but... in the 80's we always iced superior teams that didn't win. Getting out of the Adams division was a war. Hartford had decent teams at the time and rarely made the playoffs let alone win a series. One of the reasons Boston hates us so much is because we met them virtually every year. Usually we had to beat Boston then Quebec or vice/versa only to have a well rested less bruised NYI/Pit/ on the other side. Winning in 86 and 93 was a war and not a fluke.

Its funny that he uses the Langway trade as a watermark.... Ryan Walter says hi. Yes we lost a great D.

The turn of the franchise was the Wickenheiser draft. Had we taken Savard, not only would we have had Savard but we'd also have kept Chelios. Chelios was allowed to walk because it was felt Schneider was ready.... he wasn't. And who was the architect of those trades, Serge Savard.

Ironically Savard did most of the nastiest damage to the team. Being the Captain here in the early 90's was a guaranteed trade.

Chelios
Carboneau
Keane
Turgeon
Muller

All departed under Savards leadership. What was the catalyst? I remember the Chelios/Carbo experiment. 2 Captains one at home one on the road. An appeasement for the ruling PQ at the time. A political compromise. Ironic that one of the first french GM's of the habs and a former Captain is in fact largely responsible for creating the demise of the franchise.

The real culprit in all of this is the language debate and the media. If in fact the french need the Canadiens to be an extension of their culture in order for self validation then the habs are doomed to mediocracy, and then perhaps irrelevance. This need for a french coach or gm so the people of the Quebec can relate to their team is ridiculous and insulting. Imagine if they also had a necessity for that coach or GM to be white to reflect the majority of the populace..... I digress.

The habs will be around and relevant far longer than Sportnet Mag.
Well, language is a whole lot different than a colour issue and I'll leave it at that.

As for the French thing... I don't think this has really slowed us down at all. We don't have many french players on our team anyway. Gainey wasn't french and the coaches that we've brought in have actually been okay (albeit at Vancouver and Boston.)

We keep ignoring the elephant in the room. No superstars. Why is that? No top five picks in 25 years.

No top 10 scorers in 25 years. It's not a coincidence. You start adding superstars, it's going to be a heck of a lot easier to win. And if you're winning all of these negative type articles go away.

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Old
01-15-2012, 03:44 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
I agree we shouldn't settle for being mediocre and having a draught is upsetting but I wonder why so many fans ignore this. The truth is bad eras are impossible to avoid, and the other 5 original 6 teams have had it far worse than us. The only original 6 team to be consistently good for the past two decades was probably the worst of them all for 20 years before that. The Rangers have underachieved their entire history.

So no, we aren't entitled to a cup just because it's been 18 years. Should we be happy about that? No, but it shouldn't be that horrifying. It's reality.
Thank you!!! Somebody with something thoughtful and intelligent to say. You can't always win people. Maybe in a 6 team league not in a 30 team cap league.

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Old
01-15-2012, 04:59 PM
  #200
habfaninvictoria
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Well, language is a whole lot different than a colour issue and I'll leave it at that.

As for the French thing... I don't think this has really slowed us down at all. We don't have many french players on our team anyway. Gainey wasn't french and the coaches that we've brought in have actually been okay (albeit at Vancouver and Boston.)

We keep ignoring the elephant in the room. No superstars. Why is that? No top five picks in 25 years.

No top 10 scorers in 25 years. It's not a coincidence. You start adding superstars, it's going to be a heck of a lot easier to win. And if you're winning all of these negative type articles go away.

Of course race is different than language, because one is visible the other is not.

The french thing has slowed us down. Regardless of whether we have french players on our team it is the primary target of every columnist outside of the gazette in the province. The appetite for a french star ultimately cost us Lats. He couldn't deliver or handle the pressure. Was pushed far too soon and pressure for him to be on the top line was fodder for any fool who could type. Lappy found a perfect role in Vancouver. He could have played that role here, but there was so much external pressure for him to be top 6, a role he is not suited for, that ultimately the habs moved him as well.

The language of the NHL is English. Very rarely would the right candidate be available who is bilingual and the most qualified. This team however is required to pick from a very small pool. Hitchcock is a great coach, and ineligible to coach here. How retarded is that.

No superstars. Correct. Not likely to change any time soon. If you were a star in this league would you come to a market where your every move is dissected and you have to work for a coach that was chosen for his linguistic skill not his hockey knowledge.

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