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The Webs/Suts Rose Ceremony - All Ryan Suter/Shea Weber FA talk

View Poll Results: Do you think that we should trade Ryan Suter at the deadline?
Yes, we need to get something for him rather than nothing. 18 30.51%
No, he's more valuable than any return that we would get for him. 41 69.49%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-15-2012, 11:43 AM
  #151
gopreds19
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We need to move Suter to a contender in the East, who is just looking for one more piece to really go for the cup. That's who will give us the best return. Not to a team like Anaheim who has nothing to play for.

Think Boston, Philly, NYR, Fla. What we need in return is either a Top-3 player now, or their best prospect + pick + etc.

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01-15-2012, 11:44 AM
  #152
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I don't think we need to move Suter at all to be honest.

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01-15-2012, 11:48 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
I don't think we need to move Suter at all to be honest.
Agree. Regardless of the risks, I'd rather Poile not move him unless he is blown away by a deal, not just deal him for the sake of getting something in return.

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01-15-2012, 12:21 PM
  #154
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I don't think we need to move Suter at all to be honest.
100% agree.

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01-15-2012, 12:47 PM
  #155
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Agree. Regardless of the risks, I'd rather Poile not move him unless he is blown away by a deal, not just deal him for the sake of getting something in return.
Listening to Poile's interview before last night's game, I'd say Poile agrees with your sentiment. His comments in the interview reinforce that he will approach this trade deadline like he always does. He mentioned that the Fisher trade last year was a huge move for the Preds. He also said Sully's re-signing two years ago AFTER the season ended is a possibility for re-signing Suter. He mentioned there are lots of buyers and very few sellers. Blah, blah, blah... same old song and dance.

If we keep winning, he won't deal Suter just because he's a UFA and can walk at season's end. I had hoped that the ownership group would force Poile to make an aggressive move to keep Weber and Suter, AND deal for a top 3 forward. But after listening to the interview, I'm convinced that the old adage about leopards changing their spots holds true with Poile. I don't think he'll gamble to acquire a top 3 guy. Consequently, Suter will leave in Free Agency because Poile has not made the necessary moves to make Nashville a cup contender. Unfortunately, we'll probably get very little, if anything, in return for Suter.

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01-15-2012, 01:27 PM
  #156
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The deal ain't the point ....

The possibilities of deals for Ryan are numerous and interesting. They feel decidedly "un-pred-like". Moving one of our cornerstones for an elite player. Its not what we do. We grow 'em, play 'em, and hold on for dear life. Except for PK and Foppa, we don't bring in elites either. Not our style. The thought of doing it is nervewracking. It's a slippery slope toward teams like the BJs and the Leafs chasing the names. It feels anti-identity.

That said, the Rose Ceremony quality of this reality show is the collective fear of rejection from what we thought was a soulmate. Ryan is our high school sweetheart. We've stayed together thru college and now into our early adult life. It's time to get married, have kids, and live happily ever after. We've had such a comfortable relationship, the thought of either side going in another direction didn't seem possible. We just both assumed we'd always be together.

But lately, Ryan has seemed ........ distant. We've noticied a wandering eye. 100% certainty in our realtionship has become strained. The "connection" is no longer solid. Our grass is browning and grass on the other side is looking greener. The reality that we may not be together forever is seeping in. And it hurts, on so many levels.

We started out together, when neither one of us was anything. We've lived thru all the ups and owns, which has built a bond that should make staying together a no-brainer. And now this.

Breaking up is hard to do. Being left without a rose hurts. Can we be successful without Ryan? Sure. Can DP swing a good deal if faced with the reality that Ryan wants out? To quote Toots: "Absolutely".

But that's not the point. Right now, as every day goes by with no contract deal, we're slowly watching our one-and-only slip away. He hasn't said he wants out, but we can feel it. We notice things we didn't notice before. What used to be cool-under-pressure on the ice now smells like indifference. His quiet nature is now the fear he's "shutting down on us". His deflection of direct questions on the subject has gone from appropriate to mounting evidence that "he's-just-not-into-us-anymore".

Like any innocent jilted lover, we will hit a breaking point soon. Commit to us or get out. No Hamhuis "I want it both ways". This is personal. We gave you everything we had. We're willing to commit. We've done all the right things. If you can't commit, there's no other reason than you don't want to be together anymore. No because of the money. No, it's deeper than that. You're telling us you've "outgrown us". Being a Pred was fine on the way up, but now that you're a recognized BMOC, staying a Pred would be Slummin'. It would hold you back. You feel like you've graduated to the Cool Kids table at school. You're "in" and we're ....... not.

If that's the way it's going to be, then go. Now. We'll take what we can get. Once you've come clean that you've lost that lovin' feeling, we couldn't bear to watch you hang around a pretend you're a Pred, even if it gives us a better chance to win playoff games this year. Go. Roll in the greener grass. Party with the cool kids. Live the life you seem to think is better than staying home with us. Go.

Have you taken a real good look at us lately, Ryan. We know you've evolved into a stud since our relationship began, but look at us. 54 points. 13-4 in our last 17. Budding studs at all positions. Elite goalie for 7 more years. Most stable coaching and front office in the league. Electric fan base that loves you. Sellouts for as far as the ey can see. Playoff runs now and in the future. Great place to live. No income taxes. Great place to raise kids. No sufficating media making your life miserable. In a word, we're a Catch. The blossoming hometown girl. Those Big City girls may seem more glamorous, but they won't love you like we do. They can't. We loved you when you were nothing. They seem to love you for what you've become. If you really want them, than you're not the guy we always thought you were. You just need to go. Chase what you think you want, but you'll never find it, because it's here. It'll always be here. You're just too full of yourself to see it.

Bottom line, it's personal. If we're misreading your signals Ryan, show us. Call your agent, sign a 7/7 deal, show us the vibes we're feeling are wrong. Show us we really are together forever. No hard feelings.

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01-15-2012, 01:30 PM
  #157
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ILIILI writes too well for a hockey forum

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01-15-2012, 01:38 PM
  #158
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Best. Post. Ever.

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Old
01-15-2012, 01:44 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
ILIILI writes too well for a hockey forum
He does, great read.

Wish Sutes would stay, but strongly believe he's on his way out.

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01-15-2012, 01:56 PM
  #160
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damn what a post.. just great

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01-15-2012, 02:07 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by ILikeItILoveIt View Post
The possibilities of deals for Ryan are numerous and interesting. They feel decidedly "un-pred-like". Moving one of our cornerstones for an elite player. Its not what we do. We grow 'em, play 'em, and hold on for dear life. Except for PK and Foppa, we don't bring in elites either. Not our style. The thought of doing it is nervewracking. It's a slippery slope toward teams like the BJs and the Leafs chasing the names. It feels anti-identity.

That said, the Rose Ceremony quality of this reality show is the collective fear of rejection from what we thought was a soulmate. Ryan is our high school sweetheart. We've stayed together thru college and now into our early adult life. It's time to get married, have kids, and live happily ever after. We've had such a comfortable relationship, the thought of either side going in another direction didn't seem possible. We just both assumed we'd always be together.

But lately, Ryan has seemed ........ distant. We've noticied a wandering eye. 100% certainty in our realtionship has become strained. The "connection" is no longer solid. Our grass is browning and grass on the other side is looking greener. The reality that we may not be together forever is seeping in. And it hurts, on so many levels.

We started out together, when neither one of us was anything. We've lived thru all the ups and owns, which has built a bond that should make staying together a no-brainer. And now this.

Breaking up is hard to do. Being left without a rose hurts. Can we be successful without Ryan? Sure. Can DP swing a good deal if faced with the reality that Ryan wants out? To quote Toots: "Absolutely".

But that's not the point. Right now, as every day goes by with no contract deal, we're slowly watching our one-and-only slip away. He hasn't said he wants out, but we can feel it. We notice things we didn't notice before. What used to be cool-under-pressure on the ice now smells like indifference. His quiet nature is now the fear he's "shutting down on us". His deflection of direct questions on the subject has gone from appropriate to mounting evidence that "he's-just-not-into-us-anymore".

Like any innocent jilted lover, we will hit a breaking point soon. Commit to us or get out. No Hamhuis "I want it both ways". This is personal. We gave you everything we had. We're willing to commit. We've done all the right things. If you can't commit, there's no other reason than you don't want to be together anymore. No because of the money. No, it's deeper than that. You're telling us you've "outgrown us". Being a Pred was fine on the way up, but now that you're a recognized BMOC, staying a Pred would be Slummin'. It would hold you back. You feel like you've graduated to the Cool Kids table at school. You're "in" and we're ....... not.

If that's the way it's going to be, then go. Now. We'll take what we can get. Once you've come clean that you've lost that lovin' feeling, we couldn't bear to watch you hang around a pretend you're a Pred, even if it gives us a better chance to win playoff games this year. Go. Roll in the greener grass. Party with the cool kids. Live the life you seem to think is better than staying home with us. Go.

Have you taken a real good look at us lately, Ryan. We know you've evolved into a stud since our relationship began, but look at us. 54 points. 13-4 in our last 17. Budding studs at all positions. Elite goalie for 7 more years. Most stable coaching and front office in the league. Electric fan base that loves you. Sellouts for as far as the ey can see. Playoff runs now and in the future. Great place to live. No income taxes. Great place to raise kids. No sufficating media making your life miserable. In a word, we're a Catch. The blossoming hometown girl. Those Big City girls may seem more glamorous, but they won't love you like we do. They can't. We loved you when you were nothing. They seem to love you for what you've become. If you really want them, than you're not the guy we always thought you were. You just need to go. Chase what you think you want, but you'll never find it, because it's here. It'll always be here. You're just too full of yourself to see it.

Bottom line, it's personal. If we're misreading your signals Ryan, show us. Call your agent, sign a 7/7 deal, show us the vibes we're feeling are wrong. Show us we really are together forever. No hard feelings.
The big question is how much of what we perceive is a projection onto the situation by a worried fanbase? Is it the same coolness that has always been there or has it really changed? If he's definitely gone, why have his agent spend so much time participating in negotiations?

I'm not convinced he's leaving nor am I sure he's staying. There are indications of both. Right now we know that both Suter and Weber are saying the right things in public. We know there's a contract offer from the team awaiting Suter's autograph at the bottom after days of negotiation between Poile and Suter's agent.

The same paranoia that surrounds this deal was present mere weeks ago with Rinne. He was as good as gone ... no chance of us signing any of the "big 3" ... until he signed. We'll see over the next few weeks which path this deal follows.

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01-15-2012, 02:10 PM
  #162
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All I know is that if Suter has said anything at all to GMDP about leaving via free agency, we better ship his ass out for something. No more Dan Hamhuis type of thinking. I'd rather get pieces from Suter than make the playoffs and him leave for nothing or a pick.

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01-15-2012, 02:22 PM
  #163
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All I know is that if Suter has said anything at all to GMDP about leaving via free agency, we better ship his ass out for something. No more Dan Hamhuis type of thinking. I'd rather get pieces from Suter than make the playoffs and him leave for nothing or a pick.
The rights to Hamhuis to Philly for Parent ... Parent to Vancouver for SOB = rights to Hammer for SOB.

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01-15-2012, 02:34 PM
  #164
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We need to move Suter to a contender in the East, who is just looking for one more piece to really go for the cup. That's who will give us the best return. Not to a team like Anaheim who has nothing to play for.
Or, if you can't find a dancing partner in the East, just go ahead and make a deal with Detroit since that's were Suter will probably end up anyway. Right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WartracePred View Post
If we keep winning, he won't deal Suter just because he's a UFA and can walk at season's end. I had hoped that the ownership group would force Poile to make an aggressive move to keep Weber and Suter, AND deal for a top 3 forward. But after listening to the interview, I'm convinced that the old adage about leopards changing their spots holds true with Poile. I don't think he'll gamble to acquire a top 3 guy. Consequently, Suter will leave in Free Agency because Poile has not made the necessary moves to make Nashville a cup contender. Unfortunately, we'll probably get very little, if anything, in return for Suter.
Beyond that, Poile is supremely confidant in his gameplan/blueprint for this franchise, perhaps to a fault. If Suter or Weber aren't convinced that Poile's plan is anything more than a competitive structure, but never really a true contender setup, and they decide to play elsewhere because of that, then that signifies that Poile is selling something that players aren't buying. Poile honestly believes that Suter will sign because Poile believes that the team he has built following his gameplan is in fact good enough, that there will be success this year, and that even if it takes until July 1st, Suter will believe in his vision as well. To acknowledge that Suter won't sign and to actually trade Suter away would equal failure in Poile's mind and that his decade and a half long blueprint just simply can't reach a higher level that elite players, home grown ones even at that, can fully buy into. If he acknowledges that a player as good as Suter can't see how the Preds will be a true contender, he would have to come to the realization that he may have been wrong and I just can't see Poile willing to do that. Trading/not trading Suter has much less to do with his obvious on ice contribution to the success of this year's team, and much more in my opinion about Poile refusing to admit failure and move on.

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01-15-2012, 02:35 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
The rights to Hamhuis to Philly for Parent ... Parent to Vancouver for SOB = rights to Hammer for SOB.
SOB = colorado. Nashville= nothing. Is there any way we can connect the most wonderful posting ever from ILIILI to the infant's "please sign" video, and make Sutes see it?????

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01-15-2012, 02:38 PM
  #166
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SOB = colorado. Nashville= nothing. Is there any way we can connect the most wonderful posting ever from ILIILI to the infant's "please sign" video, and make Sutes see it?????
We did get a year of SOB for the rights to Hamhuis, so it wasn't "nothing". We picked up SK for the rights to Dan Ellis and Boyd. Even in the firesale days, we got something in return for players we were about to lose on the FA market.

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01-15-2012, 02:45 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by cleangene View Post
SOB = colorado. Nashville= 2nd round. Is there any way we can connect the most wonderful posting ever from ILIILI to the infant's "please sign" video, and make Sutes see it?????
fixed it

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01-15-2012, 02:45 PM
  #168
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But Suter is different than other FAs weve had before. This isn't Skrastins. We have to keep the same quality of assets on this team. We can't lose an asset of Suters value for pennies. I know it may mean a change of culture, but it needs to happen. By the time the trade deadline comes Suter will have have had plety if time to make a commitment to thus franchise and if he hasn't, then it's time to part ways. There will be plenty of teams who would covet an all star number 1 d man to push them over the hump, and will be willing to part ways with one or more of their future pieces to acquire him. Pitting Boston against Philly should cause one of them the trigger at the thought of the other getting Suter. It's time.

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01-15-2012, 02:48 PM
  #169
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I would give Suter until 2/15 to sign a contract, then trade him. If he doesn't sign, I'd give Weber until 2/20 to sign a contract, then shop him. If I couldn't trade him for full value, I'd tell him to look for offer sheets in the summer and we will either match or let him go. No more Dan Hamhuis, let the player sit and ride it out and then go walk for free to their new dream job. Particularly for Weber, I'd make no effort to accomodate his desire on where to play.

Winners like Michael Jordon want to show they can take any team to the top. The LeBron's of the world want to join a winner. If these guys need to go to a winner to be a winner instead of making history on their own, let em go. Bobby Orr didn't ask to be a Hab. Bobby Clarke didn't want to be an Islander.

If you want to win, leave. If you want to be a winner, sign.
Boom. Love this post.

To keep up the Bachelor scenario, if Suter does jilt us and give a rose to some other skank, I hope we do get the satisfaction of seeing their bitter breakup (or lack of playoff appearances) on the cover of People magazine soon after. And then the Predators can become the next Bachelorette (because we are really good-looking and had a standout personality in our season with Suter), with hotties falling all over themselves to be with us...and Suter can suck it.

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01-15-2012, 02:54 PM
  #170
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Moving Suter at the deadline requires a huge return to keep us in the hunt. If Poile goes that route it has to include a player signed for the next couple of years or we're basically moving a guy who might leave this summer for a guy who might leave this summer.

If the team is in this same situation in the standings, it makes just as much sense to keep him and try to move him between the end of the season and draft day than it does to move him with six weeks left in the regular season. The only way moving him at that point of the season makes sense is if we're getting an established d-man who can play top pairing minutes plus a proven scorer ... with at least one of them under contract through at least next season.

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01-15-2012, 03:52 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
fixed it
Come on dude, that's a reach. SOB was on waivers right before we traded for him, and if you're attributing our making the second round to SOB, you're clearly forgetting that every penalty he took seemed to end in a Ducks goal.

If we turn Suter into a penalty-prone, third pairing defenseman and a trip to the second round that sees only an unearthly headstand from Rinne keeping it from being utter one-sided domination, then its a failure and a mistake.

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01-15-2012, 04:13 PM
  #172
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Come on dude, that's a reach. SOB was on waivers right before we traded for him, and if you're attributing our making the second round to SOB, you're clearly forgetting that every penalty he took seemed to end in a Ducks goal.

If we turn Suter into a penalty-prone, third pairing defenseman and a trip to the second round that sees only an unearthly headstand from Rinne keeping it from being utter one-sided domination, then its a failure and a mistake.
Flipping the rights to Hamhuis for a roster player, even one as flawed as SOB, was a good move. Maybe he gets more for Hammer at the deadline, maybe not and it's pure speculation as to what impact any deadline move would have had on the 09-10 season. We got into the playoffs and brainfarted away the Chicago series with him ...

With Suter, it takes one hell of a return to get him for a move at the deadline to make sense. Suter for a 1st and a rental ... no joy. Suter as part a deal for Ryan and Beauchemin could make sense depending on the other parts.

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01-15-2012, 05:07 PM
  #173
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I definitely think there is something to be said for the perception of Suter as disinterested, indifferent, or already looking at other options, as simple projection of our fears onto what is and always has been Suters personality.

Think about it, when have you ever heard a pending UFA have significant discussions in the media about their plans. We all want Suter to come out and say "I still love you" or even "Im leaving you as soon as I can get packed"(to use ILIILI's metaphor) but it really just isn't gonna happen. Either one day we will hear of his signing an extension, or else we will know he's gone when he signs elsewhere

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01-15-2012, 05:44 PM
  #174
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How much of this is Suter afraid of staying on in Weber's shadow? No matter how much he enjoys playing with Shea, I seriously wonder if he will ever be as recognized for his own talent as long as they are a tandem.

None of us can know more than is in the public record at this time, but if I read the tea leaves (his statements and the fact a contract is known to be on the table) I see hints that he is not signing because he is not willing to commit to Nashville. I agree with 101st and others who question if DP is willing to make a move of this magnitude during the season with the franchise surging and in the hunt. If you look at deals made before the deadline since the salary cap, I can't think of a single team in that position trading away a precious asset, without some in-season roster-changing player(s) coming back in return. After the season is over, teams are willing to take more risks on a rebuild like that, IMHO. The other factor is you really don't want to trade that guy in conference and have to face him so much all year and to emerge from conference play, if you can help it at all.

Personally, as much as I would like to be wrong, I am starting think of what the roster would be like post-Suter. If he can remain healthy and continue his stellar play, Josi could be nearing that level of play in a year or two. If the right top 3 guy came back, already inked (or pledged to ink longer term), that could be the difference in making the leap. I do think, philosophically, building with depth scoring and high character players (as DP does) results in better post-season play. One scoring line teams just don't make deep runs. Too easy to play matchup against them.

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01-15-2012, 05:52 PM
  #175
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Darth your point about suter wanting out of webers shadow is valid and before this season I think it may have been in his mind. But getting named and all star plus a lot of media talk about him and his situation should convince him he is a star in his own right and will be recgnized for it right here. He should also be wary of the crushing expectations that go with being some other teams huge free agent signing in the summer.

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