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Old
01-15-2012, 02:51 PM
  #101
Deuce Awesome
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PresidentCamacho View Post
You're completely ignoring my initial point which was that he has been and currently is producing at a near-comparable rate to Phaneuf for less than half of his salary. You're living in a pre-cap dream if you think White doesn't deliver the same value as Phaneuf.

His latest contract is probably his most valuable one since entering the league as he is now an established premier offensive defenceman. His cost benefit probably exceeds Dion's.

That's not worthless, despite what you think of Stajan, Mayers, and Hagman. In fact, he was the clearcut centrepiece of the initial deal.
To counter your bolded post, if White is such a post cap bargain, why has he been in the Dom Moore league of journeyman players? Players with great value command premiums if they are dealt, and seldom are for that matter.

People make too much fuss about salary. The amount given to Phaneuf has not handcuffed the Leafs in anyway from making other deals. Its not my money, so I don't care.
If you surveyed 1000 Leaf fans who they would rather have as the top pairing Dman on our team, Phaneuf vs White, I would bet 90% would go with Phaneuf.
He was our top pairing Dman and we were dreadful.

Besides, if he was the centrepiece of the initial deal heading back to Calgary (I don't disagree) why was he dealt for Babchuk if he was so fantastic?


That deal was more of a ripoff than the Gilmour trade. Im all for hearing debates to the contrary but there simply isn't one in this trade.


White's current play on Detroit is a non factor when evaluating the deal. If the Flames had aquired a valuable piece for him then it would be relevant.

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Old
01-15-2012, 02:52 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Runningreb View Post
what confuses me about that is when some media guys how are also "legit" media guys post here--are not given the same courtesy. Example I came across is on the Oiler board and Canuck board and abuse hurled at Dan Tencer and Bob Stauffer--who are both posters here
as was pointed out to me when I first got here. On nearly every board you will find media guys with their own names and some who don't

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01-15-2012, 02:54 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by habsrule22 View Post
The Nashville deal, You got stuck with Lombardi at 3.5m for 2 years.
Sending him down to the Marlies is one phone call away

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Old
01-15-2012, 02:56 PM
  #104
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Ian White's partner is Nicklas Lidstrom. You're kidding yourself if you think that playing with a future Hall of Famer hasn't increased Ian White's stats and improved his play.

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01-15-2012, 02:56 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by mapes View Post
Who cares? We weren't going after alot of free agents so it's worth it to get a young guy like Franson.
Seriously! Lombardi would be given a TTC pass to the marlies if it ever became an issue and the salary would be wiped. He's played well enough to stay on the team, but if some salary ever needed to be shed it would be a formality.

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01-15-2012, 02:57 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by 705techno View Post
Besides, if he was the centrepiece of the initial deal heading back to Calgary (I don't disagree) why was he dealt for Babchuk if he was so fantastic?
He signed a 1-year deal right before his first UFA windown opened up.

Maybe that is a sign of itself that he was going to test the open market, which was apparently the case, as the Detroit Red Wings scooped him up pretty quickly. I guess Carolina got the same story as well, since he was traded as a trade deadline rental to San Jose (and thrived there in the playoffs) for a 2nd round pick.

Sounds like Mr. White was very much desired as he was grabbed by the premier organization, headed by the best GM of our time.

Of course, I don't expect to find many capologists browsing around Eklund threads. I'm probably barking up the wrong tree.

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01-15-2012, 03:00 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PresidentCamacho View Post
You're completely ignoring my initial point which was that he has been and currently is producing at a near-comparable rate to Phaneuf for less than half of his salary. You're living in a pre-cap dream if you think White doesn't deliver the same value as Phaneuf.

His latest contract is probably his most valuable one since entering the league as he is now an established premier offensive defenceman. His cost benefit probably exceeds Dion's.

That's not worthless, despite what you think of Stajan, Mayers, and Hagman. In fact, he was the clearcut centrepiece of the initial deal.
Amazing what playing with Lidstrom can do, eh? Not to mention an incredibly strong team.

BTW, this year:

White: 47 point pace
Phaneuf: 52 point pace

Since the trade:

White: 0.42 PPG
Phaneuf: 0.5 PPG

Not to mention all of the other categories that Phaneuf beats him in. Size, hitting, blocking shots, eating ice time/playing all situations including the PK, leadership, etc.

I loved White, but there is a reason that Ian White is on his 5th team at the age of 27. There is no denying that Calgary got fleeced in that trade, and that's without even factoring in Aulie.

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01-15-2012, 03:01 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by getyourselfsomerest View Post
Am I the only one who really doesn't want Rick Nash? Especially at the cost it would take to get him? I won't use the word overrated because I acknowledge his two-way play but 7.8 mil is a lot for a guy who's never scored more than 80 points. And I know there's more to hockey than just points but still....7.8 mil....
Yeah, his top is 79 points. So far away.

That's okay, though; we don't particularly want to trade him either. He's been very good to the city of Columbus, despite the general futility of the Jackets.

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01-15-2012, 03:06 PM
  #109
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Eklund is known to be extremely unreliable, I wouldn't put any stock into what he says.

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01-15-2012, 03:07 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by oilsands View Post
Eklund is known to be extremely unreliable, I wouldn't put any stock into what he says.
I think that is well known but its still something to do on a chilly Sunday afternoon.

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01-15-2012, 03:07 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Yeah, his top is 79 points. So far away.

That's okay, though; we don't particularly want to trade him either. He's been very good to the city of Columbus, despite the general futility of the Jackets.
How have the Jackets looked since the firing?

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Old
01-15-2012, 03:15 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
Amazing what playing with Lidstrom can do, eh? Not to mention an incredibly strong team.

BTW, this year:

White: 47 point pace
Phaneuf: 52 point pace

Since the trade:

White: 0.42 PPG
Phaneuf: 0.5 PPG

Not to mention all of the other categories that Phaneuf beats him in. Size, hitting, blocking shots, eating ice time/playing all situations including the PK, leadership, etc.

I loved White, but there is a reason that Ian White is on his 5th team at the age of 27. There is no denying that Calgary got fleeced in that trade, and that's without even factoring in Aulie.
Dion represents a $6.5 million cap hit. White represents a $2.875 million cap hit.

Dion should be performing about 2.26 times more exceptionally than White. Dion does not.

Verdict: Detroit is getting more bang for their buck. Toronto is not.

I will note that I am only factoring in on-ice performance. I hear Dion can turn up a boombox like no other.

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Old
01-15-2012, 03:20 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by hockeyGod View Post
I'll bite. What about:
Stastny
for
Kulemin + 1st
Nope, no interest whatsoever from the Avs. Were 1 point out of the playoffs, why would we be selling?

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Old
01-15-2012, 03:21 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PresidentCamacho View Post
Dion represents a $6.5 million cap hit. White represents a $2.875 million cap hit.

Dion should be performing about 2.26 times more exceptionally than White. Dion does not.

Verdict: Detroit is getting more bang for their buck. Toronto is not.

I will note that I am only factoring in on-ice performance. I hear Dion can turn up a boombox like no other.
Very few players are ever deserving of $6 million plus contracts in the first place. Ian White is a fine player and a bargain, I'll give you that.

The Leafs are a better team with Dion instead of White. Reverse where they play (Dion in Detroit playing with Lidstrom, White being the #1 in Toronto) and the argument regarding their play wouldn't be close.

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01-15-2012, 03:22 PM
  #115
Newfie John
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Originally Posted by PresidentCamacho View Post
Of course, I don't expect to find many capologists browsing around Eklund threads. I'm probably barking up the wrong tree.
Kind of like how you won't find any one in any hockey management circles who would rate Ian White and Dion Phaneuf in the same category.

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01-15-2012, 03:23 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PresidentCamacho View Post
Dion represents a $6.5 million cap hit. White represents a $2.875 million cap hit.

Dion should be performing about 2.26 times more exceptionally than White. Dion does not.

Verdict: Detroit is getting more bang for their buck. Toronto is not.

I will note that I am only factoring in on-ice performance. I hear Dion can turn up a boombox like no other.
White is not, and will never be a leader, go to guy, or #1 D. He played like a solid #3 in Toronto and SJS, and terrible in Calgary and Carolina. It is no coincidence that his play has increased as soon as he was paired with a HHOF lock.

Regardless, him being on 5 different teams in 2 years should be enough proof that he is not a coveted asset or someone that should be taken in high regard.

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01-15-2012, 03:24 PM
  #117
Newfie John
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PresidentCamacho View Post
Dion represents a $6.5 million cap hit. White represents a $2.875 million cap hit.

Dion should be performing about 2.26 times more exceptionally than White. Dion does not.

Verdict: Detroit is getting more bang for their buck. Toronto is not.

I will note that I am only factoring in on-ice performance. I hear Dion can turn up a boombox like no other.
So you're saying salary and statistical output is a linear relationship?

Is there any real place other than your fantasy where this is the case?

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Old
01-15-2012, 03:25 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Nope, no interest whatsoever from the Avs. Were 1 point out of the playoffs, why would we be selling?
Well I see where youre coming from but dont you think your team can use that 1st round pick to pick up a good defensemen that youll use in a couple years? and think Kulemins a very good sniper which your team needs a lot more of. All you guys have right now is basically playmakers and TWF. Kulemin has a lot of potential and as much as youd probably not like to see stastny go, It's probably best for your team to get a good defensemen and a sniper from him.

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01-15-2012, 03:25 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Nope, no interest whatsoever from the Avs. Were 1 point out of the playoffs, why would we be selling?
Maybe because if you miss the play-offs, you are giving Washington a lottery pick and have nothing to show from another disappointing season. It takes a lot to make it and the Avs haven't shown they're ready to take that next step yet. Stastny may not be there when the Avs are actually ready to be legitimate contenders.

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Old
01-15-2012, 03:26 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PresidentCamacho View Post
Dion represents a $6.5 million cap hit. White represents a $2.875 million cap hit.

Dion should be performing about 2.26 times more exceptionally than White. Dion does not.

Verdict: Detroit is getting more bang for their buck. Toronto is not.

I will note that I am only factoring in on-ice performance. I hear Dion can turn up a boombox like no other.
Clarke Macarthur last year put up a better bang for his buck than Sidney Crosby. Would you trade Sidney Crosby for Clarke Macarthur?

I gladly pay the higher price for the better player, especially considering all the other things Phaneuf brings to the game and team, and considering that we have no cap troubles or financial limit.

It's a moot point anyway, since Aulie himself is a better return than Calgary got in the trade.

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01-15-2012, 03:26 PM
  #121
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predicting the leafs will do a trade in the next 5 days is not hard as Burke has SAID HE will

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01-15-2012, 03:30 PM
  #122
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*yawn*

He puts out a new "rumor" every 6-8 hours.

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Old
01-15-2012, 03:35 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by richard armus View Post
predicting the leafs will do a trade in the next 5 days is not hard as Burke has SAID HE will
No he didn't... lolol

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01-15-2012, 03:36 PM
  #124
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anything eklund says usually nothing happens so take with a grain of salt

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01-15-2012, 03:37 PM
  #125
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Ian White is better than Phaneuf, amazing

edit- yes, ian white

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