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Carter/Richards production vs. new guys

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Old
01-15-2012, 11:59 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
Richards played with guys like Anze Kopitar and Dustin Brown for much of his time in LA so far. He also played on the first powerplay w/ defensemen like Doughty and Johnson. Acting like the Kings are terrible is a total joke. For most of his time there, he played w/ better teammates than he would've had he been in Philadelphia.

Had he still been here, he would've likely been Centering some line consisting of (injured) JVR or Read on the LW and Voracek on the RW. I think JVR will be amazing down the line after he gets whatever surgery he needs and recovers and I think Voracek is promising, but there's no doubt in my mind that Kopitar and Brown blow both of those guys out of the water.
Kopitar is a center. They've been the 1/2 centers.

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01-15-2012, 12:04 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Kopitar is a center. They've been the 1/2 centers.
He actually played on Kopi's wing for a good deal of the season... I follow the Kings semi-regularly, so I know this for a fact.

They had Richie-Kopi-Brown as a line for a good deal of time.

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01-15-2012, 12:19 PM
  #28
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Carter trade is a win, I don't know about the Richards trade.

Comparing the production of 4 players to two (both of whom have missed time to injury) doesn't exactly make sense either.

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01-15-2012, 12:20 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
He actually played on Kopi's wing for a good deal of the season... I follow the Kings semi-regularly, so I know this for a fact.

They had Richie-Kopi-Brown as a line for a good deal of time.
I'm aware they've been doing that some, but Richards has been at center most of the season outside of when they were/are panicking for goals. Dude's taken 560 draws, and early in the year I know they were looking for him and Brown to make a connection.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_time_...24+25+26+27+28

Brown is the only forward in Richards' top 5. Gagne, Brown, and Williams have all been with Kopitar extensively.

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01-15-2012, 12:42 PM
  #30
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Carter trade is looking like a massive heist (especially since he is seemingly injury prone) so I'm glad that everything I argued about using him as leverage for depth has worked out so far although part of trading him was to get a bonafide goalie...umm not sure that has worked out yet....

Richards....hard to say. Thing is he wasn't happy here as evidence by his comment about the locker room being little groups and him liking LA b/c he can just come to the rink and not have to worry about all the off-ice stuff.Anyway, it was best for everybody the trade happened. I am liking what I see with Schenn of late and Simmonds has been a solid contributor.

We still have some more possible rewards to reap with the picks. Cousins is supposedly going to be a good NHL player..nothing great but serviceable from what I've read. Hopefully, we don't trade the LA pick...I want more for Richards and hoping that pick is something decent. Too bad LA has picked it up in the standings...

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01-15-2012, 12:58 PM
  #31
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The fact that Carter is beginning to have repeat injuries (more foot issues, another separated shoulder) really pushes that trade into "WIN" category I think. When the same issues are popping up repeatedly it's a big red flag. There's also that Couturier guy too, he's pretty nice to have.

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01-15-2012, 01:01 PM
  #32
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OP is such a fail.

First compares the production of 4 players VS 2.

Gets countered, so he naturally selects the two players that when combined, have a higher amount of pts then Carter and Mike.

Gets countered again by numerical proof that his select players have played way more games than Jeff and Mike.

So he tries stating that his "real point" is that Jeff is fragile.


Last edited by MiamiScreamingEagles: 01-22-2012 at 11:13 AM.
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01-15-2012, 01:01 PM
  #33
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The Flyers would likely be better today had they kept Richards.

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01-15-2012, 03:41 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
Richards played with guys like Anze Kopitar and Dustin Brown for much of his time in LA so far. He also played on the first powerplay w/ defensemen like Doughty and Johnson. Acting like the Kings are terrible is a total joke. For most of his time there, he played w/ better teammates than he would've had he been in Philadelphia.

Had he still been here, he would've likely been Centering some line consisting of (injured) JVR or Read on the LW and Voracek on the RW. I think JVR will be amazing down the line after he gets whatever surgery he needs and recovers and I think Voracek is promising, but there's no doubt in my mind that Kopitar and Brown blow both of those guys out of the water.
Philadelphia Flyers GF/G 3.35 - 2nd in NHL
Los Angeles Kings GF/G 2.18 - 30th in NHL

If you follow the Kings semi-regularly should've realised a long time ago that scoring goals isn't their thing.
Richards right now is on pace for roughly 50 points, although being their most consistant/best forward when he played.

Imo, it's a given that Richards would have a solid year with us, no mather on which line you put him, he always produced. He played last season with Nodl, Carcillo and Versteeg and still managed to put up 66 points.

The Flyers also didn't save that much cap-space on those deals.
Carter and Richards combined for a cap-hit of roughly $11m.
Simmonds, Schenn, Couturier and Voracek combine for $8.4m.

Bryzgalov could've been signed without trading the duo, Homer even said it.

I personally like Simmonds and Schenn, but imo neither has the impact of Richards and it's highly unlikely that either will get to his level.

Regarding the cap-hit.
Voracek has to be resigned after this season. Judging from his play I'd say he's getting $3m starting next season.
Simmonds contract is up after next season, if he continues to develop and play like he showed in his first 40 games in orange, look for another $3m player.
There goes your cap-space.


Last edited by dookie88: 01-15-2012 at 03:49 PM.
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01-15-2012, 04:24 PM
  #35
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Meh. No time to argue with biased internet trolls with way more time on their hands than myself. I'll get back to actually playing the game and The Rink forum where we discuss our game and not other people's.

Bottom Line: The Flyers won both trades. Roster spots? Yeah because top 8 overall 18 and 20 yr. old draft picks are so easy to come by, especially one that broke records at the World Juniors.

Younger, better, more potential for a good player that has his best days behind him and a fragile/couldn't break a carton of eggs center that disappears come playoff time.

Intangibles? How about the ridiculous 10-20 game slumps the team used to have that have now seemed to disappear since those two left? They were the face of the franchise. Coddled brats. Good riddance.

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01-15-2012, 04:28 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
OP is such a fail.

First compares the production of 4 players VS 2.

Gets countered, so he naturally selects the two players that when combined, have a higher amount of pts then Carter and Mike.

Gets countered again by numerical proof that his select players have played way more games than Jeff and Mike.

So he tries stating that his "real point" is that Jeff is fragile.
2 "throw-ins" have a higher point total than the two clowns we got rid of. Now let's talk about Schenn and Couturier. A 5th and 8th overall was it? Didn't one break records in the World Juniors? Doesn't the other have a +12 and a 4 game goal streak at 19 years old? You fail miserably. Pick a fight you can win clown.


Last edited by MiamiScreamingEagles: 01-22-2012 at 11:13 AM.
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01-15-2012, 04:29 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
The Flyers would likely be better today had they kept Richards.
Or be in a 10 game winless streak which happened every single year that he was captain. They'll also miss his one goal in the first round of the playoffs I'm sure.

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01-15-2012, 04:31 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
He actually played on Kopi's wing for a good deal of the season... I follow the Kings semi-regularly, so I know this for a fact.

They had Richie-Kopi-Brown as a line for a good deal of time.
Yup. And still no more points than Jake who does not play with a player anywhere near Kopitar.

Voracek will skate circles around Richards

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01-15-2012, 04:48 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guffaw View Post
Or be in a 10 game winless streak which happened every single year that he was captain. They'll also miss his one goal in the first round of the playoffs I'm sure.
Every single year? May want to fact check that.

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01-15-2012, 04:54 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guffaw View Post
Meh. No time to argue with biased internet trolls with way more time on their hands than myself. I'll get back to actually playing the game and The Rink forum where we discuss our game and not other people's.

Bottom Line: The Flyers won both trades. Roster spots? Yeah because top 8 overall 18 and 20 yr. old draft picks are so easy to come by, especially one that broke records at the World Juniors.

Younger, better, more potential for a good player that has his best days behind him and a fragile/couldn't break a carton of eggs center that disappears come playoff time.

Intangibles? How about the ridiculous 10-20 game slumps the team used to have that have now seemed to disappear since those two left? They were the face of the franchise. Coddled brats. Good riddance.


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01-15-2012, 04:56 PM
  #41
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i prefer couturier, schenn, simmonds, and voracek over carter and richards

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01-15-2012, 05:22 PM
  #42
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It's fun when people with no idea what they're talking about act like they do.

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01-15-2012, 05:46 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
It's fun when people with no idea what they're talking about act like they do.
Especially when the OP decides what is and isn't true. My POV:

Carter is having the year from hell. I think everyone can attest to that.

Richards is having a good year. If you think it's all about stats with him, you aren't really getting hockey. They play a VERY defensive style of hockey, so while he's not going to be putting up Giroux-like numbers, he's also going to be a hell of a lot better defensively. It says a lot when the Flyers' best defensive forwards are rookies.

Voracek is a very solid player but isn't putting up a ton of points. I don't see a lot of finish with him but I like his defense.

Simmonds is very effective when he's in front of the net.

Couturier...what were the other GMs thinking? They look like a bunch of idiots for letting him drop, he should have been a top 3 pick.

Schenn, looks pretty good but it's still too early to tell. I don't think he's nearly as good as Couturier.

The bottom line is LA fans are thrilled with Richards while a few miss Simmonds. Flyer fans are all over the map when it comes to both Richards and Carter, there doesn't seem to be any middle ground. Who cares? Stats don't tell the whole story. Styles of play figure into so much and the Flyers' offensive style is completely opposite of the Kings' defensive first mindset. Columbus simply sucks so it doesn't matter what style they have, they're almost an AHL team.

If Couturier hadn't fallen so far down in the draft, things would look quite different. That wasn't Holmgren being skilled, that was 6 GMs being stupid.

In the grand scheme of things, Richards and Carter would have kept the Flyers in "win now" mode. Bryz likely wouldn't be as bad as he is because they are defensively responsible, something that Jagr isn't bringing to Giroux's line and Briere is being Briere. In a few years, maybe the Flyers will have stronger team defense since Couturier, Schenn and Read will be counted on heavily to play 200 feet, but right now the team is abysmal defensively and that's costing them.


Last edited by MsWoof: 01-15-2012 at 06:11 PM.
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01-15-2012, 05:55 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guffaw View Post
Yup. And still no more points than Jake who does not play with a player anywhere near Kopitar.

Voracek will skate circles around Richards
Richards and Kopitar played maybe 4 games together as linemates this season and it was while Murray was being fired and they were trying to get the team scoring going. Try again, though, your made up stats are amusing.

Oh and last night, Richards had a goal and assist and was the first star on HNiC.

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01-15-2012, 06:02 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guffaw View Post
2 "throw-ins" have a higher point total than the two clowns we got rid of. Now let's talk about Schenn and Couturier. A 5th and 8th overall was it? Didn't one break records in the World Juniors? Doesn't the other have a +12 and a 4 game goal streak at 19 years old? You fail miserably. Pick a fight you can win clown.
The fack are you talking about?

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01-15-2012, 06:43 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guffaw View Post
Yup. And still no more points than Jake who does not play with a player anywhere near Kopitar.

Voracek will skate circles around Richards


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 01-15-2012 at 06:47 PM. Reason: Fixing YT
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01-15-2012, 06:49 PM
  #47
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The fack are you talking about?
Nothing relevant.

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01-15-2012, 07:06 PM
  #48
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Schenn is the wild card that would push it one way or the other. He also hasn't exactly been the model for perfect health.

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01-15-2012, 07:09 PM
  #49
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If you want to just compare the stats 4 vs 2, why dont you just find out what the avg point per game game is for carter and richards combined compared to voracek, simmonds, couturier and schenn combined?

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01-15-2012, 07:22 PM
  #50
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If you want to just compare the stats 4 vs 2, why dont you just find out what the avg point per game game is for carter and richards combined compared to voracek, simmonds, couturier ans schenn?

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