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Old
01-15-2012, 11:56 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stepanformayor View Post
If i thought that we were going to pay Richards this kind of money for 60-65 points yes i would consider that a bust. Stepan will get 60-65 points for $875,000. Richards will make 6.6 this year.
What type of production do you expect from him?

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01-15-2012, 11:58 PM
  #27
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I meant leads the team in points during the playoffs.
Oh I see

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01-16-2012, 12:00 AM
  #28
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Now here's a real problem. Down the line Stepan, McDonagh, and MDZ are gonna want big ass paydays, and we already gave that cap space to Brad Richards.

He needs to perform now before the window closes because he's the one closing it. This team will not have the cap to maintain long term.

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01-16-2012, 12:12 AM
  #29
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I think Richards will improve a bit once Dubi comes back.

Quote:
“I think Richie is better with Dubi hard on the puck,” coach John Tortorella said after Richards and Dubinsky (shorthanded) each scored in his team’s 3-1 victory in Pittsburgh on Friday. “I think being surrounded by [Dubinsky and Callahan] has really helped Richie, with the way Dubi is back on his game, being a bull the way he needs to be.”
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...#ixzz1jbBYWb7c

However, with or without Dubinsky, Richards should be playing better than he has been. Richards is a talented player in his own right and it hasn't been evident in the past few games. He's made some uncharacteristically bad decisions with the puck.

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01-16-2012, 12:35 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
If 65 leads the team in points don't even talk about playoffs.
at this pace, the team leader won't have much more than that. and we'll still make the playoffs.

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01-16-2012, 12:53 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Killem Dafoe View Post
at this pace, the team leader won't have much more than that. and we'll still make the playoffs.
Krejci led the Bruins in scoring with 62 points last season.

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01-16-2012, 01:21 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by nyrfan1026 View Post
Krejci led the Bruins in scoring with 62 points last season.
They also have 7 or 8 players who can easily repeat that feat. We're not that deep.

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01-16-2012, 01:40 AM
  #33
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yeah, he's not scoring at a 75 point season pace, but last time I checked we were first place in the ENTIRE NHL.

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01-16-2012, 01:54 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
They also have 7 or 8 players who can easily repeat that feat. We're not that deep.
the fact is they had 2 players at 62, 2 in the 50s, 4 in the 40s last year when the won the cup. Not 7-8 like they do this year.

Gaborik, Richards, and Callahan are currently looking at 60+ seasons
Stepan, Anisimov, Dubinsky are going to be 40-50+ point players. True, not as deep, but not so dire either. Saying that Boston has Chara definitely is an irrefutable argument, but we are getting good seasons from McD, Girardi, and MDZ as well. We definitely could use a boost but if we get it in the form of a late season push, I'm ok with that.

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01-16-2012, 02:00 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Now here's a real problem. Down the line Stepan, McDonagh, and MDZ are gonna want big ass paydays, and we already gave that cap space to Brad Richards.

He needs to perform now before the window closes because he's the one closing it. This team will not have the cap to maintain long term.
Good point made

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01-16-2012, 02:01 AM
  #36
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Brad will be alright. Every team in every sport will go through multiple patches where the going gets tough. Thats when the tough get goin'!

So he has 2 assists in his last 18 games you say? (I don't even know if thats true but I believe I just saw that in this thread.) Well, the team has won 11 of their last 14.

Having Brandon "The Bull" Dubinsky out there at full strength will get both B-rich and #24 going offensively. Callahan has actually been getting his chances, and playing very physical and somewhat responsibly defensively during his "worst" stretch of the season.

What's starting to concern me, however, is the disaster piece that is the NYR power-play. That of which, Richards was hailed to be the savior

Stepan has probably been our best (most consistent? you catch my drift) offensive player this season and you can see the effect that the mere presence of Richards has had on his development.

Looking forward to a big postseason run from the old guy.

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01-16-2012, 02:23 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Now here's a real problem. Down the line Stepan, McDonagh, and MDZ are gonna want big ass paydays, and we already gave that cap space to Brad Richards.

He needs to perform now before the window closes because he's the one closing it. This team will not have the cap to maintain long term.
Its not really that big of a problem.

WW, Feds, Avery and EC (MZA as well?) all off the books this summer. Drury buy-out cut in half after this season and completely gone the summer after that (same summer that Mactruck and Stepan are RFA's).

Looks like Pruster, Biron and MDZ will be the only guys looking at new deals/raises this summer. (Prust situation may get sticky, hoping Slats doesn't completely low-ball the guy, but I doubt he would leave, especially if we are on the verge of perennial Cup contention. He loves NY (as I'm sure his smoking hot GF of a model does as well), and Torts has turned him into the player he has become today.

Keep in mind, Sather and Co. have done very well in re-signing the RFA's to cap-friendly deals.

Of course, its possible it could all change with a new CBA. Who knows if GM's will still have that kind of leverage over the restricted players.

Not to mention, you got CT, Kreider and Taker coming up in near future on ELC's. (That could change under new CBA as well.)

*This is why you don't go and do something completely retarded and throw 7+ million at Zach Parise, as freaking amazing he would look in Ranger blue.

Not to mention the looming summers of death of '14/'15 with the following players all UFA's:
-Callahan
-Dubinsky
-Lundqvist
-Girardi
-Gaborik

Plus Anisimov, Boyle and Sauer also will need to be re-upped in two summers. Sauer/Boyle could be casualties if they try to out-price themselves but AA is most likely viewed as a "core" member.


Last edited by nyrfan1026: 01-16-2012 at 02:31 AM.
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Old
01-16-2012, 03:44 AM
  #38
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1. Fix our Power-Play

Any player, getting top PP minutes, a top 15 ranked PP, will get on the board on a regular basis. You will get BS secondary assists or easy tap ins just by default.

If you get on the board on a regular basis, you never have to worry about these slumps really. And its basically a proven fact that slumps can get to any player.

2. Get him better linemates
Carl Hagelin is not a consistant top 6 forwards. I don't even have to add, "don't misunderstand me", we all know that Hagelin still is a rookie and that he will not be able to play at the same high level for the course of a NHL season. And his second best is just not good enough.

As it has been right now, that line i) has been a tad weak on the circle but moreover have ii) struggled mightly, when going up against the best line of the other team, to get into the attacking zone.

This has bearing, for sure, on the talk about who, if anyone, we should get to play with BR. A player like Shane Doan will not in any way help a line of Doan-BR-Cally to get up ice and spend time in the attacking zone instead of the defensive zone. BR is not good at skating the puck up ice. Cally is good at getting it out of danger, but if you play against all-stars like Giroux and such they bring it all and you are bound to chase the puck alot unless you got the skill to play that game yourself and make them chase you instead.

3. Decide that the team can play well no matter at what rate BR is "producing"

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01-16-2012, 06:41 AM
  #39
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Richards is a proven first line NHL center. I have no idea why Torts does not have Richards centering the first line with Gaborik on the wing. Richards also needs to playing first line Power play minutes a lot more than what he has been playing

Stepan is doing ok as the first line center but I don't think there would be any drop off in Stepan's production if he is moved to the 2nd line with Cally.

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01-16-2012, 06:44 AM
  #40
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We are dangerously close to making the same mistake in this thread we did with Drury/Gomez. Expecting set offensive production dictated by contract without taking into consideration how the players previously achieved it. The difference being Drury/Gomez were not worth the money on their best days, while Richards is.

Brad has made a career of being a set-up man and PP QB. He has had a rough month, with a few real stinkers, but if you look at his season overall, his numbers would be considerably higher if the players around him finished.

The PP is lacking a triggerman on the point. There are other problems with it like a lack of movement, some of which Richards is responsible for, but until it gets going his numbers will be down. His passes are wasted and rebounds not finished. Every player at the top of the scoring race gets a huge percentage of his points on the PP, and every successful PP has a big shot from the point and strong net presence.

Richards played with Eriksson, Neal, Benn on his line in Dallas. All better scorers than his wingers in NY. Cally is not a "natural" finisher. Hagelin, Feds, Dubi. Dubinsky had gone on streaks in the past where he looked like he might be one someday, but he's had a dreadful season scoring until very recently. The point is none of the guys playing on Richards' line in NY compare to the Dallas players as "natural" finishers. His passes have not been converted. It's as simple as that.

Torts decided early in camp that he didn't like Gabby with Richards. He has said it many times. I don't know why, but that's his thinking.

This is where the Wolski summer (non)decision is becoming a real problem for the Rangers. A $4 mill. black hole in addition to the $2.5 mill. due to Drury's buy-out and last year's bonuses. That's a self-inflicted wound. They can really use another scoring forward. A Prospal, Jagr, or somebody of that ilk could've been signed short-term or traded for. Torts has no faith in Wolski. I don't see what changed since the summer. Hell, they could've traded for/signed a PP shooting defenseman with WW money. Corvo (just an example) was available for a mid-round pick with just this season left on his contract. Liles was moved at the draft.

Bottom line, Richards is first and foremost a supreme passer. His numbers won't go up nor should they be expected to until they get a shooter for the PP and/or put a real finisher on his line.

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01-16-2012, 08:19 AM
  #41
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Esa 10, Richards has given me no indacation that he is a supreme passer. So what your saying is that the Rangers should go out and spend another 7 million to get him a shooter? They tried him with a 7 million dollar guy in Gabby and he could not get him the puck. We have a $875,00 a year guy doing that. Oh yeah and that guy leads the team in assists. Let's quit making excuses for Richards and call a spade a spade. He has been really bad the last 20 games.

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01-16-2012, 08:36 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stepanformayor View Post
Esa 10, Richards has given me no indacation that he is a supreme passer. So what your saying is that the Rangers should go out and spend another 7 million to get him a shooter? They tried him with a 7 million dollar guy in Gabby and he could not get him the puck. We have a $875,00 a year guy doing that. Oh yeah and that guy leads the team in assists. Let's quit making excuses for Richards and call a spade a spade. He has been really bad the last 20 games.
Nah, you got to recognize the complexity of the game to start with.

I know I made several posts before we got BR about how playmaker+shooter=success ain't always true, and how you gotta look alot more into it than that.

On the PP BR plays the right point as a lefty. Give him a left-handed playmaker down low and a RH shot option on the left point, and you can't shut him down. We have NONE of that.

BR and Gabby were doomed not to work from the get go, Gabby isn't a center driven sniper actually. He have never played of a center really, more of a D than anything else. Phil Housley fed a young Sellanne in Winnipeg more than Zhamnov ever did.

A puckmovin D would also help Richards on the ice. Staal will help him for sure.

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01-16-2012, 08:43 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Stepanformayor View Post
If i thought that we were going to pay Richards this kind of money for 60-65 points yes i would consider that a bust. Stepan will get 60-65 points for $875,000. Richards will make 6.6 this year.
Oh that is a great comparison right there.

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Old
01-16-2012, 09:04 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by msv957 View Post
Richards is a proven first line NHL center. I have no idea why Torts does not have Richards centering the first line with Gaborik on the wing. Richards also needs to playing first line Power play minutes a lot more than what he has been playing

Stepan is doing ok as the first line center but I don't think there would be any drop off in Stepan's production if he is moved to the 2nd line with Cally.
I would imagine he hasnt played Richards and Gaborik together because the team has been among the best in the NHL with them on seperate lines. Just a hunch. As for Stepan's production, you dont think his production would go down if one of the NHL's top goal scorers were taken off his wing? Thats an interesting theory.

Richards needs to play better, no disagreement there. But his presence is also a huge reason for Stepan's success and growth as a player.

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01-16-2012, 09:08 AM
  #45
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Richards needs to go back to playing the point on the powerplay, with Stepan, Cally and Gabby up front.

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01-16-2012, 09:13 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
1. Fix our Power-Play

Any player, getting top PP minutes, a top 15 ranked PP, will get on the board on a regular basis. You will get BS secondary assists or easy tap ins just by default.

If you get on the board on a regular basis, you never have to worry about these slumps really. And its basically a proven fact that slumps can get to any player.

2. Get him better linemates
Carl Hagelin is not a consistant top 6 forwards. I don't even have to add, "don't misunderstand me", we all know that Hagelin still is a rookie and that he will not be able to play at the same high level for the course of a NHL season. And his second best is just not good enough.

As it has been right now, that line i) has been a tad weak on the circle but moreover have ii) struggled mightly, when going up against the best line of the other team, to get into the attacking zone.

This has bearing, for sure, on the talk about who, if anyone, we should get to play with BR. A player like Shane Doan will not in any way help a line of Doan-BR-Cally to get up ice and spend time in the attacking zone instead of the defensive zone. BR is not good at skating the puck up ice. Cally is good at getting it out of danger, but if you play against all-stars like Giroux and such they bring it all and you are bound to chase the puck alot unless you got the skill to play that game yourself and make them chase you instead.

3. Decide that the team can play well no matter at what rate BR is "producing"
Couldn't agree more. It's pretty simple when you think about it. Even Callahan isn't a guy in an ideal situation I'd want next to Richards. Callahan is an excellent hockey player but he's not some guy whose skill is the first thing that comes to mind when you think about him.

The power play is the big issue. If this team didn't have one of the worst power plays in the league he'd had another 10+ points right now and this wouldn't seem like such a big deal. When the power play is 23rd in the league or whatever, it makes sense that he'd be around 30 points.

Also, I don't think people pay enough attention to the head coach. Torts is pretty open all the time about getting players to play a certain way. It's why guys like MZA and Frolov and Wolski don't last under him. He expects every player on his team to play a dirty grind it out type of style. He tolerates Gaborik because he has 40+ goal potential. And don't forget, he benches Gaborik plenty, and a hell of a lot more than he does other players.

Torts wants Richards playing a dirty grind it out type of style. They seem to have a good relationship and I don't doubt Richards' willingness to do what his coach asks him, but anyone who watches him should be able to realize that's not who he is. Think about it. Richards is a guy who looks to avoid contact. He's the antithesis of most of the forwards on our team. He is not a physical player. I think it has been a challenge for BR to try and alter his game a little bit.

Really though, if the power play were successful even slightly he'd have over 40 points right now and it wouldn't really matter.

When your power play sucks, anticipated point production for highly paid players decreases.

Is it really Richards' fault? He was supposed to be the savior? I thought that was Torts' job when he came in? He was the power play guru.

At some point you've got to realize that no matter who this team uses the power play is a mess. That falls on the coaching staff first and foremost.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stepanformayor View Post
Esa 10, Richards has given me no indacation that he is a supreme passer. So what your saying is that the Rangers should go out and spend another 7 million to get him a shooter? They tried him with a 7 million dollar guy in Gabby and he could not get him the puck. We have a $875,00 a year guy doing that. Oh yeah and that guy leads the team in assists. Let's quit making excuses for Richards and call a spade a spade. He has been really bad the last 20 games.
Torts loves to comment about those two not having chemistry but that's a bunch of crap. He gave them zero time to develop chemistry. I don't think it matters now because Gabby and Stepan work really well together so it's a moot point. But the whole Gabby and Richards didn't work together crap is such hyperbole.

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01-16-2012, 09:26 AM
  #47
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Something tells me this is a thinly veiled'Stepan is the man,Richards sucks thread'by Stepans #1 stalker fan.

anyway,Richards will be fine once Dubi gets back.lets keep in mind hes started off with Prust on his line the past 2 games,not exactly a scorer to feed the puck to.

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01-16-2012, 09:32 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stepanformayor View Post
Esa 10, Richards has given me no indacation that he is a supreme passer. So what your saying is that the Rangers should go out and spend another 7 million to get him a shooter? They tried him with a 7 million dollar guy in Gabby and he could not get him the puck. We have a $875,00 a year guy doing that. Oh yeah and that guy leads the team in assists. Let's quit making excuses for Richards and call a spade a spade. He has been really bad the last 20 games.
Not a $7 guy just one for ~$4. The cap space they foolishly assigned to Wolski given how the coach views him.

Do you really not remember all the plays made by Richards that neither Cally nor the revolving door on LW could finish? How about on the PP, where his passes result in the other pointman missing the net or shooting softly into the goalie's chest? The PP in general has been wasting Richards' playmaking this year.

I'm by no means absolving Richards on his level of play lately, but when looking at the year as a whole I think the supporting cast is the crux of the problem. I'm also not convinced he wouldn't work with Gabby. Torts made a decision early in TC, they were never given any time together during the season. I've never seen him explain his reasoning in print.

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01-16-2012, 09:43 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Rangers4Life74 View Post
Something tells me this is a thinly veiled'Stepan is the man,Richards sucks thread'by Stepans #1 stalker fan.

anyway,Richards will be fine once Dubi gets back.lets keep in mind hes started off with Prust on his line the past 2 games,not exactly a scorer to feed the puck to.
You're talking about the same people that blamed Dubinsky for not getting going offensively when he was playing with Prust and Boyle and Mitchell.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Esa 10 View Post
Not a $7 guy just one for ~$4. The cap space they foolishly assigned to Wolski given how the coach views him.

Do you really not remember all the plays made by Richards that neither Cally nor the revolving door on LW could finish? How about on the PP, where his passes result in the other pointman missing the net or shooting softly into the goalie's chest? The PP in general has been wasting Richards' playmaking this year.

I'm by no means absolving Richards on his level of play lately, but when looking at the year as a whole I think the supporting cast is the crux of the problem. I'm also not convinced he wouldn't work with Gabby. Torts made a decision early in TC, they were never given any time together during the season. I've never seen him explain his reasoning in print.
He gave it zero time. IMO he had his mind made up way beforehand. Torts does this all the time with things. He has something in his head that he commits to and that's the end of it.
I believe his comments were pretty vague, just stating that he didn't like them together and didn't think it worked. Which as we've mentioned, makes no sense when he didn't give it any time.

I still think it's strange too, because he was saying that and then there were games like the early season game against Ottawa where they were on the ice together during a power play or 4-on-4 and they were unbelievable together. For some reason neither him or anyone else ever wants to acknowledge that stuff though. Gabby was skating and finding open areas and Richards was making crazy slick passes to find him in space.

Now it's almost like Torts goes out of his way to make sure they're never on the ice together.

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01-16-2012, 09:51 AM
  #50
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I should of known that Ranger4life had a day of school today with such a dumb comment. Either your off school today or there is no kickball game at recess today, and you have some "free time" before the teacher blows the whistle to go back to class. This has nothing to do with Stepan. Richards has been awful the last 20 games and you don't want to believe that. Does not have a shooter, he is in the wrong place on the pp, he is not playing with Gabby, those are all excuses for a 12 year pro that we are paying alot of money to that has been a bust so far this year. Stop with the excuses and call it like it is. Esa10, I am pretty sure that Tort's does not have to explain to you why Richie is not with Gabby. I will though, it is working with Stepan and they are winning. Tough concept eh!!!

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