HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Carter/Richards production vs. new guys

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-15-2012, 06:24 PM
  #51
BringBackStevens
Registered User
 
BringBackStevens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 12,037
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guffaw View Post
Meh. No time to argue with biased internet trolls with way more time on their hands than myself. I'll get back to actually playing the game and The Rink forum where we discuss our game and not other people's.

Bottom Line: The Flyers won both trades. Roster spots? Yeah because top 8 overall 18 and 20 yr. old draft picks are so easy to come by, especially one that broke records at the World Juniors.

Younger, better, more potential for a good player that has his best days behind him and a fragile/couldn't break a carton of eggs center that disappears come playoff time.

Intangibles? How about the ridiculous 10-20 game slumps the team used to have that have now seemed to disappear since those two left? They were the face of the franchise. Coddled brats. Good riddance.
Epic bizarre rant

BringBackStevens is online now  
Old
01-15-2012, 06:30 PM
  #52
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beefitor
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 37,705
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
Epic bizarre rant
You're clearly a biased internet troll.

__________________
Down in the basement, I've got a Craftsman lathe. Show it to the children when they misbehave.
Beef Invictus is offline  
Old
01-15-2012, 07:19 PM
  #53
qwertysac
Registered User
 
qwertysac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Montreal, Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,090
vCash: 500
Carter - 30gp -10g - 17pts = 0.33 gpg and 0.57 ppg
Richards - 37gp - 14g - 26pts = 0.38 gpg and 0.70 ppg
Total avg = 0.36 gpg and 0.64 ppg

Voracek - 43gp - 6g - 26pts = 0.14 gpg and 0.60 ppg
Simmonds - 43gp - 12g - 23pts = 0.28 gpg and 0.53 ppg
Couturier - 39gp - 9g - 16pts = 0.23 gpg and 0.41 ppg
Schenn - 15gp - 2g - 3pts = 0.13 gpg and 0.20 ppg
Total avg = 0.20 gpg and 0.36 ppg

Take it for what its worth.

qwertysac is offline  
Old
01-15-2012, 07:38 PM
  #54
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 10,410
vCash: 500
The trade was meant to extend our window and add depth and strength at wing. Also it was meant as a culture change. It has pretty much already accomplished all of it in a short time. We weren't meant to win it all this year anyway and yet without Pronger and with Bryz being in space the team is exceeding expectations. I doubt with brittle boy Carter and a disgruntled Richards we would have done any better right now. We are better for the trades and at least Richards is as well. Carter...well he got a raw deal but I am glad the fact he was so overrated has netted us Couts and Voro. Love their enthusiasm and commitment.

The team is growing..we just have one weed right now in Bryz oh yeah and Shelley so two. I still have hopes for Bryz though...but the doubts are there as well

FreshPerspective is offline  
Old
01-15-2012, 07:47 PM
  #55
NJGoalie
Registered User
 
NJGoalie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 199
vCash: 500
I just did an article on that topic: https://topshelfcheese.wordpress.com...need-richards/

They actually came out relatively even when broken down on the level of man-games played. If you look at the cap space freed up by the moves, and the other moves it allowed them to make, it clearly worked in their favor statistically. Whether or not it makes a difference in the end result is yet to be seen.

NJGoalie is offline  
Old
01-15-2012, 08:33 PM
  #56
JXC
#LaviPondHockeyFail
 
JXC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 13,889
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guffaw View Post
Or be in a 10 game winless streak which happened every single year that he was captain. They'll also miss his one goal in the first round of the playoffs I'm sure.
Bah. Those winless streaks were always someone else's fault... first it was Stevens then like Carle and Boosh and stuff.

Anyway, just saying they could use what he's got is all.

JXC is offline  
Old
01-15-2012, 11:52 PM
  #57
Guffaw
Registered User
 
Guffaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Drexel Hill PA
Country: United States
Posts: 485
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Bah. Those winless streaks were always someone else's fault... first it was Stevens then like Carle and Boosh and stuff.

Anyway, just saying they could use what he's got is all.
I don't agree, but you actually could make an intelligent Richards argument as making the team better this year. I have a feeling that will hold less weight as Schenn and Simmonds mature and peak while Richards tails off. That's on ice only though. They wanted him out of here for more than his on ice production.

Guffaw is offline  
Old
01-16-2012, 12:12 AM
  #58
Guffaw
Registered User
 
Guffaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Drexel Hill PA
Country: United States
Posts: 485
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwertysac View Post
Carter - 30gp -10g - 17pts = 0.33 gpg and 0.57 ppg
Richards - 37gp - 14g - 26pts = 0.38 gpg and 0.70 ppg
Total avg = 0.36 gpg and 0.64 ppg

Voracek - 43gp - 6g - 26pts = 0.14 gpg and 0.60 ppg
Simmonds - 43gp - 12g - 23pts = 0.28 gpg and 0.53 ppg
Couturier - 39gp - 9g - 16pts = 0.23 gpg and 0.41 ppg
Schenn - 15gp - 2g - 3pts = 0.13 gpg and 0.20 ppg
Total avg = 0.20 gpg and 0.36 ppg

Take it for what its worth.
No offense, but pretty much nothing. Carter is always hurt and always will be. Check that career ppg when it counts, after the all star break and in the playoffs. I don't have the stat, but I can tell you it's night and day vs. his first halfs. The guy disappeared every year when it counts so what's the point for a team like the Flyers that makes the playoffs every year.

PPG stats for two teenage rookies and two 22/23 yr olds that don't play on a top line and see little to no pp time vs. two 27 yr. olds in their prime that play first line pp and with star players.

Since you like ppg, Jake and Simmonds nearly equal the two clowns and would likely be higher if on first unit pp and playing with a Nash or Kopitar caliber players like they are.

Then you still have 5th and 8th overall pics that are 19 and 20 yrs. old. When have the Flyers picked that high? JVR and then going off memory Mike Ricci in 1991? Almost 20 years.

Holmgren turned a last placed team into a contender in 1-2 years. He made the deals. But he doesn't argue on internet forums so I guess you guys are right and he's wrong

Guffaw is offline  
Old
01-16-2012, 12:15 AM
  #59
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beefitor
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 37,705
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guffaw View Post
No offense, but pretty much nothing. Carter is always hurt and always will be. Check that career ppg when it counts, after the all star break and in the playoffs. I don't have the stat, but I can tell you it's night and day vs. his first halfs. The guy disappeared every year when it counts so what's the point for a team like the Flyers that makes the playoffs every year.

PPG stats for two teenage rookies and two 22/23 yr olds that don't play on a top line and see little to no pp time vs. two 27 yr. olds in their prime that play first line pp and with star players.

Since you like ppg, Jake and Simmonds nearly equal the two clowns and would likely be higher if on first unit pp and playing with a Nash or Kopitar caliber players like they are.

Then you still have 5th and 8th overall pics that are 19 and 20 yrs. old. When have the Flyers picked that high? JVR and then going off memory Mike Ricci in 1991? Almost 20 years.

Holmgren turned a last placed team into a contender in 1-2 years. He made the deals. But he doesn't argue on internet forums so I guess you guys are right and he's wrong
About 10 months ago he and Giroux were producing the bulk of the Flyers offense, what with Richards being hurt, Versteeg being hurt/useless, JVR not really doing anything, and Briere's line cooling off in a bad way. At least try to get your facts straight.

Beef Invictus is offline  
Old
01-16-2012, 12:16 AM
  #60
Guffaw
Registered User
 
Guffaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Drexel Hill PA
Country: United States
Posts: 485
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
Epic bizarre rant
Subjective opinion.

I'm right and you know it

Guffaw is offline  
Old
01-16-2012, 12:23 AM
  #61
Guffaw
Registered User
 
Guffaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Drexel Hill PA
Country: United States
Posts: 485
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
About 10 months ago he and Giroux were producing the bulk of the Flyers offense, what with Richards being hurt, Versteeg being hurt/useless, JVR not really doing anything, and Briere's line cooling off in a bad way. At least try to get your facts straight.
Are you actually making the argument that Jeff Carter has been a clutch, down the stretch, and in the playoffs performer over his career ala Briere?

Really?

I'll get some stats for you to chew on

Guffaw is offline  
Old
01-16-2012, 12:26 AM
  #62
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beefitor
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 37,705
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guffaw View Post
Are you actually making the argument that Jeff Carter has been a clutch, down the stretch, and in the playoffs performer over his career ala Briere?

Really?

I'll get some stats for you to chew on
It's not like Carter led the team in game winning goals last year, as well as game tying goals. Oh right. He did. You know, those things that keep the team from losing games.

I'm going to guess that you're one of those people who holds injuries against players, right?

Go find all the stats you want. They all tend to prove that Carter is actually a pretty good hockey player, at least when he can be healthy.

Beef Invictus is offline  
Old
01-16-2012, 12:34 AM
  #63
hckyplayer8
He's Gone!
 
hckyplayer8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Chicken Capital,PA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,860
vCash: 500
Just chalk this thread up to another moron that ignores numerical stats and just blindly states his own naive opinions with zero factual proof to back it up.

But what can you expect from somebody who compares # of pts of 4 players VS 2?

hckyplayer8 is offline  
Old
01-16-2012, 12:34 AM
  #64
Ryker
Registered User
 
Ryker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Triangle, NC, USA
Country: Slovenia
Posts: 2,884
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guffaw View Post
Are you actually making the argument that Jeff Carter has been a clutch, down the stretch, and in the playoffs performer over his career ala Briere?

Really?

I'll get some stats for you to chew on
No, of course not. No one compares to Briere come playoff time

Ryker is offline  
Old
01-16-2012, 12:38 AM
  #65
sa cyred
Yea....the Flyers...
 
sa cyred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Traveling...
Country: Cuba
Posts: 15,429
vCash: 500
(Not really reading the past 3 pages) I dont think anyone here can argue that we lost the Carter trade. I think we are easily winning it right now. Richards, I still think, would have been more usefull for this team this year.

Just for example, the money we used on Simmonds and spend on Schenn pretty much equal out Richards ( Give or take 1 mil differnce)

Our lineups would be similar to:

Jagr-Giroux-Hartnell
JVR-Richards-Briere
Voracek-Couturier-Read
HarryZ-Talbot-Rinaldo

Obivously we are WAYY past this whole thing, but meh might as well put my input. The Richards trade hurt us defensively (Carter trade not so much), but overall I am pretty happy with the new guys. Couturier especially. Starting to become one of my favorite players. Just like how he plays.

sa cyred is offline  
Old
01-16-2012, 12:38 AM
  #66
Guffaw
Registered User
 
Guffaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Drexel Hill PA
Country: United States
Posts: 485
vCash: 500
Here ya go big guy. Here's Jeff Carters playoff production for the Flyers over the past 3 seasons. Remember this is a team where playoff performance is all that matters. They make the cut every year.

10-11' 6GP 2pts 14th on the team in scoring

09-10' 12GP 7pts 10th on the team in scoring

08'-09' 6GP 1pt 14th on the team in scoring

Those numbers are a joke across the board and why he is no longer here. The GP, the production per game, etc. 5-6 million to basically do nothing in the playoffs year after year? "He was hurt". That's the point! Either hurt or the invisible man. What a surprise, he's hurt again this year.

Next time you utter the word "facts" how about bringing some to the table yourself

Guffaw is offline  
Old
01-16-2012, 12:41 AM
  #67
Guffaw
Registered User
 
Guffaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Drexel Hill PA
Country: United States
Posts: 485
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
No, of course not. No one compares to Briere come playoff time
Exactly. Especially not a fragile, injury prone choke artist who tucks tail when the checking gets tight. His ppg literally gets cut in half down the stretch and in the playoffs.

Guffaw is offline  
Old
01-16-2012, 12:44 AM
  #68
Guffaw
Registered User
 
Guffaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Drexel Hill PA
Country: United States
Posts: 485
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Obivously we are WAYY past this whole thing, but meh might as well put my input. The Richards trade hurt us defensively (Carter trade not so much), but overall I am pretty happy with the new guys. Couturier especially. Starting to become one of my favorite players. Just like how he plays.
Well said. Give it time. When Carter is on his 50th injury and Richards is a defensive 3rd line center only and these 4 kids are hitting their prime we'll have this discussion again

Guffaw is offline  
Old
01-16-2012, 12:45 AM
  #69
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beefitor
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 37,705
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guffaw View Post
Here ya go big guy. Here's Jeff Carters playoff production for the Flyers over the past 3 seasons. Remember this is a team where playoff performance is all that matters. They make the cut every year.

10-11' 6GP 2pts 14th on the team in scoring

09-10' 12GP 7pts 10th on the team in scoring

08'-09' 6GP 1pt 14th on the team in scoring

Those numbers are a joke across the board and why he is no longer here. The GP, the production per game, etc. 5-6 million to basically do nothing in the playoffs year after year? "He was hurt". That's the point! Either hurt or the invisible man. What a surprise, he's hurt again this year.

Next time you utter the word "facts" how about bringing some to the table yourself
I'd like you to go separate your shoulder, or break both of your feet, and then go play hockey, or any sport you're normally good at that requires the use of those body parts.

Now, tell me how that affects your performance, and if you would still hold yourself accountable for the inevitable decline in your production because of those injuries.

Edit: Also, do you believe that being injured is the same as "choking?"

Beef Invictus is offline  
Old
01-16-2012, 12:48 AM
  #70
Guffaw
Registered User
 
Guffaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Drexel Hill PA
Country: United States
Posts: 485
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
But what can you expect from somebody who compares # of pts of 4 players VS 2?
So just use 2 vs. 2 then. Then add the value/upside of Schenn and Couturier to a franchise that had nothing in the pipeline and virtually no chance of drafting that high in the foreseeable future.

You'll still come up with the same conclusion if you lose the 12 yr. old internet punk mentality and look at my points objectively. The Flyers won both trades

Guffaw is offline  
Old
01-16-2012, 12:49 AM
  #71
hckyplayer8
He's Gone!
 
hckyplayer8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Chicken Capital,PA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,860
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
(Not really reading the past 3 pages) I dont think anyone here can argue that we lost the Carter trade. I think we are easily winning it right now. Richards, I still think, would have been more usefull for this team this year.

Just for example, the money we used on Simmonds and spend on Schenn pretty much equal out Richards ( Give or take 1 mil differnce)

Our lineups would be similar to:

Jagr-Giroux-Hartnell
JVR-Richards-Briere
Voracek-Couturier-Read
HarryZ-Talbot-Rinaldo

Obivously we are WAYY past this whole thing, but meh might as well put my input. The Richards trade hurt us defensively (Carter trade not so much), but overall I am pretty happy with the new guys. Couturier especially. Starting to become one of my favorite players. Just like how he plays.
Lump me into the bold category.

Funny thing is management decided to trade away our young captain with tons of years left, for one whose prime is past and is simply getting old.

I love Prongs but that was a dumb, dumb move.

hckyplayer8 is offline  
Old
01-16-2012, 12:51 AM
  #72
Guffaw
Registered User
 
Guffaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Drexel Hill PA
Country: United States
Posts: 485
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I'd like you to go separate your shoulder, or break both of your feet, and then go play hockey, or any sport you're normally good at that requires the use of those body parts.

Now, tell me how that affects your performance, and if you would still hold yourself accountable for the inevitable decline in your production because of those injuries.

Edit: Also, do you believe that being injured is the same as "choking?"
You don't get it. Injured, choking, etc. It doesn't matter. It was 3 yrs. in a row. He wasn't helping the team in the playoffs. He's a fragile player and even when healthy does not play his best hockey when it matters.

No injured and choking aren't the same, but he does both

Guffaw is offline  
Old
01-16-2012, 12:52 AM
  #73
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 110,412
vCash: 5602
Here's a fact: In 6 years in the league, Jeff Carter has played 80 games in 4 of them. In 2009-10, he played in 74 before he got hurt and came back in the playoffs. This 'injury prone' branding is completely unfounded.

GKJ is offline  
Old
01-16-2012, 12:54 AM
  #74
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beefitor
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 37,705
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guffaw View Post
You don't get it. Injured, choking, etc. It doesn't matter. It was 3 yrs. in a row. He wasn't helping the team in the playoffs. He's a fragile player and even when healthy does not play his best hockey when it matters.

No injured and choking aren't the same, but he does both
Have you ever noticed he does his "choking" while he's injured?

Beef Invictus is offline  
Old
01-16-2012, 01:04 AM
  #75
hckyplayer8
He's Gone!
 
hckyplayer8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Chicken Capital,PA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,860
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guffaw View Post
So just use 2 vs. 2 then. Then add the value/upside of Schenn and Couturier to a franchise that had nothing in the pipeline and virtually no chance of drafting that high in the foreseeable future.

You'll still come up with the same conclusion if you lose the 12 yr. old internet punk mentality and look at my points objectively. The Flyers won both trades
That's just it. What the hell are your points?

You come on here with some agenda (think its pretty obvious its to trash Jeff and Mike) and spew crap all over the place.

You first compare 4 VS 2 and people counter and send you packing.

You knock it down to 2 VS 2 and once again people point out that Jeff and Mike have played drastically less games thus far than the two players you picked, so once again you are set packing.

Then you change course totally and start blindly stating how fragile Jeff is blah,blah,blah, yak, yak, yak....

What is your friggen point?

If its to prove how much better the new players are compared to the old then prove it with factual statements.

Good luck considering how the majority of the players you are trying to compare to Jeff and Mike are ROOKIES and have yet to complete a year. Even then it would only be a single year and would prove practically nothing.

This is a discussion that is much better warranted for years down the road but because you have a perverse idea that the grass is always greener on the other side, you come on here half way through the season and spew utter ********.

hckyplayer8 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:56 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.