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The Webs/Suts Rose Ceremony - All Ryan Suter/Shea Weber FA talk

View Poll Results: Do you think that we should trade Ryan Suter at the deadline?
Yes, we need to get something for him rather than nothing. 18 30.51%
No, he's more valuable than any return that we would get for him. 41 69.49%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-15-2012, 05:56 PM
  #176
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Can somebody take ILikeIt's post, put it in an envelope, and send it to Suter?

Simply outstanding

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01-15-2012, 06:14 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by gopreds9 View Post
Can somebody take ILikeIt's post, put it in an envelope, and send it to Suter?

Simply outstanding
Agreed.

I just wish this entire situation was at an end. Its hard to imagine the team without Suter and if Suter goes I would really worry about Weber's future. You gotta keep your cornerstones. Right now we have three of them, we are just missing one more corner stone to be elite.

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01-15-2012, 06:27 PM
  #178
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I don't think we need to move Suter at all to be honest.
This.

I hope we can pull a move off without moving any of the big three. I know it's possible and a combination of Blum/hornqvist/1st rd pick can get us that something we need...... Cough Top 3 forward cough cough maybe even a vet d too.

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01-15-2012, 06:28 PM
  #179
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Would you say that Hamhuis is now considered to be a "star"? Is the grass greener?

With Hamhuis, sure, it's Canada, it's home for him. I can see why he wanted to go home...but I don't perceive that he is a legitimate "star" there. I see him as no more than the player he was here but getting higher pay and I guess more time on ice.

I think Suter is a great player, but I think maybe he's creating a scenario in his mind about other teams that may or may not be true. The Wings have a fine team every year, but they don't win the Stanley Cup every year. Vancouver and San Jose have fine teams and add key personnel to fill their rosters...and still don't have a Stanley Cup. Sometimes Anaheim or Carolina or Tampa Bay wins it instead. That could also happen in Nashville some day, with or without him.

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01-15-2012, 07:38 PM
  #180
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I don't know why Weber and Suter should look to Poile to make a move. Granted, we all want one, including me. I think we could use a top 3 for sure. On the other hand, they were on the ice last night, against one of the best teams in the league and we played extremely well against them. It was like a welterweight prize fight, going back and forth, up and down and we prevailed against a team with some elite players. We never backed down. All the lines contributed in some way or another. If Weber and Suter don't see that we have a very talented and young team and that the future is bright in Nashville, is a move for a top 3 going to convince them anymore of that? Also, what has to be given up to get that top 3? It may mean moving some of the pieces that are helping us succeed right now.

Say Poile goes out and makes a move right now to acquire Player X who is a top 3 forward. That would be grand. Who is going the other way? At least one of our top 6 forwards, no biggie since the top 3 is taking their spot, one of Ellis, Josi or Blum plus a pick or a top prospect. Maybe even Lindback is headed out in a deal. Regardless, it's not unreasonable and we still have the pieces in case injuries arise. Now if we do this sort of move before we re-sign Suter, this could backfire mightily on DP. If we acquire this piece, give up a nice package of players, flame out in the playoffs, we still may lose Suter in the process. If we lose Suter, now we've lost Suter and one of our top 3 blue line prospects all within a couple of months. Now we've added a top 3 forward and that's great but to win in this league, you have to have 3 blueliners come playoff time to succeed. We'd have Weber for another year, maybe, and a host of young players still. While I'm excited about the blueliners we have, it could prove disastrous.

I can see why Poile is reluctant to make any deal at this point. If he knows he can't re-sign Suter, he should make a move for sure but at the same time, he can't make a deal for a top 3 while trading away assets if he's not sure that he can re-sign Suter.

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01-15-2012, 07:52 PM
  #181
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Are we even sure, at this point, that Weber/Suter are truly waiting for "increase committment to winning" or whatever?

I mean, it looks to me that these guys are either going for bigger spotlights, bigger (UFA) $$$'s, bigger markets, or all 3.

I'm not necessarily blaming them (I can't fault anyone who does what they want when the get the chance, but I don't have to like them for it), but to me, with what we know, it really looks like these guys have 1 foot out the door already.

So trading core guys like Wilson, Ellis, Josi to acquire a guy to appease 2 guys who look like they've no interest in re-signing here more and more every day - dumb.

I wouldn't have thought this 2 months ago (I had no faith in WIlson/Smith coming into the season), but with the leaps our young players have take, we can weather losing 6/20.

Personally, I'd rather have Wilson/Ellis/Josi and a bunch of cap space then Bobby Ryan, no wilson/Ellis/etc and watching 6/20 walk out the door anyway.

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01-15-2012, 08:23 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
I don't know why Weber and Suter should look to Poile to make a move. Granted, we all want one, including me. I think we could use a top 3 for sure. On the other hand, they were on the ice last night, against one of the best teams in the league and we played extremely well against them. It was like a welterweight prize fight, going back and forth, up and down and we prevailed against a team with some elite players. We never backed down. All the lines contributed in some way or another. If Weber and Suter don't see that we have a very talented and young team and that the future is bright in Nashville, is a move for a top 3 going to convince them anymore of that? Also, what has to be given up to get that top 3? It may mean moving some of the pieces that are helping us succeed right now.
That's been my feeling the entire time. I understand where the "want to play for a contender" comes from, but realistically, at this point, who can say we aren't. And I'm not so daft to think that we're the favorite, but unless I'm deluded (which is quite possible considering the tequila) there was only one single team that won something last year that mattered that we didn't. Argue all you want, but the NHL record books are littered with stacked teams that didn't live up to their hype.

I see a team as its 20-player roster, plus the AHL guys. And honestly, we've got a pretty decent team on the horizon, especially if you think Radulov is coming back, and I just don't see where there is anything that will "convince" the big 2 to stay. I've never been a fan of a player demanding, or requiring an organization to do anything, I think it's a selfish and childish way to act. If they are saying we need offensive help, then of course, but I'm pretty sure that all but 3 or 4 teams in the league are looking for offensive help at the moment. If these guys are going to handcuff the organization in the name of making the team better isn't that kind of an oxymoron?

Sorry for the rambling, but I'm Light-sabre fighting with my 8-year old son at the same time and it's WAY too much for a 41-year old to keep up with. Feeling like the old Yoda at this point.

hang on to Suter unless someone gives us an absolute ridiculous deal. See if we can make a run.

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01-15-2012, 08:43 PM
  #183
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Poile needs to set a mid-February deadline to get Suter signed. He needs to communicate this to Suter's agent and let it be known that if Suter does not sign then he will be moved to the highest bidder. Just put the cards on the table.

We all know that the money we're offering is a fair offer. He won't make that much more on the open market. So it's basically does he want to play here or not. If he doesn't, then fine, we'll replace him with an asset (preferable younger) of equal value. I'll repeat that we're worse off in the future without an asset of Suter's value in the organization. So we can risk him walking away in the offseason for nothing.

I don't care if it makes us take some point of step back now.

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01-15-2012, 08:59 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
Poile needs to set a mid-February deadline to get Suter signed. He needs to communicate this to Suter's agent and let it be known that if Suter does not sign then he will be moved to the highest bidder. Just put the cards on the table.

We all know that the money we're offering is a fair offer. He won't make that much more on the open market. So it's basically does he want to play here or not. If he doesn't, then fine, we'll replace him with an asset (preferable younger) of equal value. I'll repeat that we're worse off in the future without an asset of Suter's value in the organization. So we can risk him walking away in the offseason for nothing.

I don't care if it makes us take some point of step back now.
I understand that, but that sounds more like spite than rational thought. I understand it, and on some levels agree with it, but if we're in the top 8, we're better off having Suter on our blue line.

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01-15-2012, 09:22 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
Poile needs to set a mid-February deadline to get Suter signed. He needs to communicate this to Suter's agent and let it be known that if Suter does not sign then he will be moved to the highest bidder. Just put the cards on the table.

We all know that the money we're offering is a fair offer. He won't make that much more on the open market. So it's basically does he want to play here or not. If he doesn't, then fine, we'll replace him with an asset (preferable younger) of equal value. I'll repeat that we're worse off in the future without an asset of Suter's value in the organization. So we can risk him walking away in the offseason for nothing.

I don't care if it makes us take some point of step back now.
That won't put any bitter feelings into negotiations at all. What if he isn't moved to the highest bidder because Poile felt it wasn't worth it. Poile has now blown any chance to negotiate a deal with Suter and he'll definitely hit free agency and not sign here. I think you're right that Poile has to set a deadline with Suter but that's all he has to do at this point. Beyond that, look for the best possible deal if it comes along. If it doesn't, like someone else said, we're better off keeping Suter and letting him walk or trying to negotiate once the season is over.

We all speculate what's happening but what if Suter and Weber told Poile we'll take care of this once the season/playoffs are over? Has anyone considered that? Me included. Maybe they are committed to staying but they don't want it to be a distraction to the team and doing that now is just that. Now granted, not doing it is a distraction because of all the possible rumors.

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01-15-2012, 09:22 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by JR303 View Post
I understand that, but that sounds more like spite than rational thought. I understand it, and on some levels agree with it, but if we're in the top 8, we're better off having Suter on our blue line.
I've got to agree with you here ... unless somebody throws huge offer that includes a d-man and scorer that meet our needs with at least one signed for the next couple of seasons.

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01-15-2012, 09:25 PM
  #187
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I've got to agree with you here ... unless somebody throws huge offer that includes a d-man and scorer that meet our needs with at least one signed for the next couple of seasons.
The one deal I could see making sense is Suter/Blum or Ellis for Ryan/Beauchemin.

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01-15-2012, 09:29 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
The one deal I could see making sense is Suter/Blum or Ellis for Ryan/Beauchemin.
Ryan-Smith-Wilson
Hornqvist-Fisher-Erat
Kostitsyn-Legwand-Borque
Tootoo-Spailing-Halischuk

Weber-Beuchemin
Josi-Klein
Boullion-(Blum/Ellis)
Hillen

I think that is better than our current line-up. What a 3rd line


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01-15-2012, 09:31 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by gopreds9 View Post
Ryan-Smith-Wilson
Hornqvist-Fisher-Erat
Kostitsyn-Legwand-Borque
Spailing-Smithson-Halischuk

Weber-Beuchemin
Josi-Klein
Boullion-(Blum/Ellis)
Hillen

I think that is better than our current line-up. What a 3rd line
Two questions. Where is Tootoo? Would our D pairings be better Weber/Josi and Klein/Beauchemin?

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01-15-2012, 09:40 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Two questions. Where is Tootoo? Would our D pairings be better Weber/Josi and Klein/Beauchemin?
Knew I forgot someone. I'll fix it.

I thought about that. either way, I think it's about the same.

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01-15-2012, 09:57 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by gopreds9 View Post
Knew I forgot someone. I'll fix it.

I thought about that. either way, I think it's about the same.
I'd mess with the lines a little bit. No reason to break some of them up but I'll modify a little.

Ryan-Legwand-Wilson
Erat-Fisher-SK
Tootoo-Spaling-Bourque
Hornqvist-Smith-Halischuk

Smithson and McGrattan can be swapped out with any of the 4th line guys depending on matchups.

I didn't see any reason to break up the 2nd and 3rd lines and I think Wilson feeding Legwand and Ryan, that line could do a lot of damage. The other good thing about Ryan is he plays on the PK.

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01-15-2012, 10:28 PM
  #192
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One thing I forgot in my earlier post: It really poisons the well for future players if a GM plays hardball, threatening to trade him to the highest bidder or a perennial 'also ran.'

One must always think about what actions like that project about an organization to prospective FAs and prospects.

I think the team can and should sight tight if there is more to this than we know (similar to 101st's comment).

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01-16-2012, 04:02 AM
  #193
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With the all-star game in Canada this year, and both of them selected, I hope they are prepared for 98% of all questions to be about when/if they are going to sign or if they want to be traded to a "contender" and for everything they say to be scrutinized and twisted to "He wants out of Nashville and wants to come to our team!".



They have pretty much their perfect partner here now. Together they form probably the best pair in the league.

Buy signing these 2 and Rinne we are showing a commitment to building a winner. These 3 are the core. If you want to be part of this then resign and realize you are an integral part to winning anything.


Just based on the comments of Poile I think Suter is the one that's going to be harder to resign. When Poile says "he's going to turn his attention to Suter to see if he wants to make a commitment to the team like Rinne did", or "it's up to Suter if he wants to make a commitment to this team", or "it's Suter signing as to why the deal hasn't gotten done" then I get the feeling that Suter isn't sure he wants to be here. (I don't notice anything different about him on the ice, he's playing the same as, maybe better than, he always has. Besides, why would he slack off, that wouldn't exactly impress other teams.)

I'm sure they are being informed of what Poile is trying to do. Hopefully they also realize that if they want to get this "offensive star" then they can't take all the money for themselves. At the same time, who the hell do they think they are to demand that the organization prove something to them. They're really good defensemen, but they aren't Gretzky or Orr out there. They need to realize that with these owners they're trying to build something gradually that will not just be a 1-2 year wonder but an annual contender, without bankrupting the team.


Some days I feel like there is no way we should even consider trading Suter before the deadline (or Weber). But then other days I feel like if they really don't want to be here, then get the hell out now. It's not fair to the team, players, fans to string the organization along and then leave them in the end. It's just frustrating that it's been over a year of "I'm not going anywhere" and "it'll get done" and still nothing is finished.


It's the same as the situation with Radulov. Until it's done, one way or another, I'm not getting my hopes up for anything about any player.

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01-16-2012, 08:23 AM
  #194
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As stated, if we go after Ryan, one of the main reasons would be to entice Suter to stay. I'm thinking it'll be Ellis +1st +??

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01-16-2012, 08:46 AM
  #195
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As stated, if we go after Ryan, one of the main reasons would be to entice Suter to stay. I'm thinking it'll be Ellis +1st +??
the more I think about it, to get Ryan we will probably have to send Wilson back, plus Ellis or Josi, plus a pick or another player.

this is a sellers market, and a player like Ryan doesnt come on the trade market very often. The price will be steep, but this is the type of move that would break our mold and send an unmistakable message to Suter and Weber.

If Ryan is truly available I expect Poile to have the best set of assets to offer Anaheim...

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01-16-2012, 09:00 AM
  #196
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Two questions. Where is Tootoo? Would our D pairings be better Weber/Josi and Klein/Beauchemin?
Tootoo is an ufa this summer, having one of his best years, and has webers pos agent.... I don't think he'll be here next year.

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01-16-2012, 09:10 AM
  #197
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Tootoo is an ufa this summer, having one of his best years, and has webers pos agent.... I don't think he'll be here next year.
I wouldnt be so sure. If tootoo has any sense he will realize that nashville is his sweet spot. Expectations anywhere else he signs will be high and given his rehab history I would think he wouldnt want to go to a pressure cooker environment.

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01-16-2012, 09:44 AM
  #198
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I understand that, but that sounds more like spite than rational thought. I understand it, and on some levels agree with it, but if we're in the top 8, we're better off having Suter on our blue line.
We've been top-8 for 6 of the past 7 seasons, and what do we have to show for it? One playoff series win. This team is not that different from last seasons, so it's not as if we're so close to the cup with how this team is currently constructed. Poile hasn't done anything to make them better than last year. So what's the point?

With the return we could get from Suter, I still think we're top-8, and hopefully the return we get will be here for a while. This organization cannot afford to let Suter walk others before. He's just that much better than all of the others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
That won't put any bitter feelings into negotiations at all. What if he isn't moved to the highest bidder because Poile felt it wasn't worth it. Poile has now blown any chance to negotiate a deal with Suter and he'll definitely hit free agency and not sign here. I think you're right that Poile has to set a deadline with Suter but that's all he has to do at this point. Beyond that, look for the best possible deal if it comes along. If it doesn't, like someone else said, we're better off keeping Suter and letting him walk or trying to negotiate once the season is over.

We all speculate what's happening but what if Suter and Weber told Poile we'll take care of this once the season/playoffs are over? Has anyone considered that? Me included. Maybe they are committed to staying but they don't want it to be a distraction to the team and doing that now is just that. Now granted, not doing it is a distraction because of all the possible rumors.
What difference does it make if there are bitter feelings in the negotiations? He's apparantly not signing anyway. Hockey is a business, and these are all grown men. I think they can stomach a little bit of honest talk, because that's all that it is.

If Suter didn't want to make this a distraction, then sign the deal. Heck, he could have signed it at anytime. The fact that there is speculation and hand wringing makes it all the more of the distraction.

Let's face it, Suter does want to try the open market. That's fine. I have no problem with that. But Nashville has to protect it's assets, and that's all that this is.

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01-16-2012, 10:57 AM
  #199
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Good post 19.

This whole "we're waiting to see if we can acquire more offensive help" is, IMHO, a bunch of garbage. I have every reason to believe that DP has put out a more than competitive offer, and if #6/#20 can't see that this team has a very bright future with guys like Smith, Ellis, Wilson, Josi maturing in the very near future, than so be it.

If we go out and pay the premium for a guy like Bobby Ryan, pretty soon we'll have Bobby Ryan, and no Suter, no Weber, and no Wilson/Ellis/Josi/1st/etc.

If you keep Suter (or anyone in this particular situation), you're essentially trading an asset that can help you this year and for 3 or more years for one guy that might help you for a 2 month playoff run (and lets face it, it's not like we're going Stanley Cup or bust this year). For other franchises, this makes sense. For ours, we have to be more careful with our assets.

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01-16-2012, 11:29 AM
  #200
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Straight up Ryan Suter for Bobby Ryan?

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