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All David Desharnais talk here.

View Poll Results: Is Desharnais' future at center or wing?
Keep him at center long-term. Play him with two big wingers. 54 83.08%
Shift him to the wing. We need more size at center. We can't give him two big wingers. 3 4.62%
Keep him at center for next season. Draft a center this year and shift DD to wing when he comes up. 8 12.31%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-15-2012, 11:38 PM
  #76
Le Tricolore
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Originally Posted by Jake5 View Post
if by "dissapears" in the playoffs you mean "shuts down the other teams star forwards" then yeah you're right

this team would fall apart (even more than it already has) without Plekanec
This.

Offensively, he hasn't put up numbers in the playoffs, but neither do the lines he plays against. Plekanec is our best player, and is still incredibly underrated around here. I don't get it.

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01-15-2012, 11:41 PM
  #77
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This.

Offensively, he hasn't put up numbers in the playoffs, but neither do the lines he plays against. Plekanec is our best player, and is still incredibly underrated around here. I don't get it.
been my favourite player for years. Such a great character guy too. Got the contract he deserved and has not taken a single shift off since.

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Old
01-15-2012, 11:53 PM
  #78
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Holy s*** this is embarrassing. Take your blinders off!

The best way to evaluate your players is to get the opinion of other professional's around the league. DD might, *might* yield you a 3rd, if your lucky a late 2nd.

On to why.

In order for DD to be effective he needs to play against weaker competition and with offensive wingers. Please, just please put him with Darche and Moen for a change then he will feel what Eller does. Does anyone remember when Eller was with Patches and Cole? That line was fricken dynamite, and thats when Patches was playing awful (and it was worse with DD might I add). Eller is the superior talent in all 3 areas. Its pretty obvious to see that, try to take an objective view and you will notice it.

You all say that DD is so great offensively, okay so since he is averaging in the top of PP time, how good is our powerplay doing? Its top in the league right! Because DD is so creative and fast and has such great vision!

Oh wait....its awful. #blamesubban.

DD is consistently getting our best, and most powerful, wingers...and to boot plays against other teams weaker lines. But no!!! he plays more even strength than Eller!! I agree he does, but consider that other teams top 6 always play on the PP, the average is around 3-4 minutes per game and the average top sixer plays around 17-19 minutes per game. So thats about 13 minutes ES. Guess how much Eller and Pleks have?

Also if you recall Martin specifically said that Eller should be proud of his play, he got promoted to top 6 duties. Defensively at least.

Another thing, DD hasnt heard of the word defense. He follows the puck worse than 10 year olds. He needs Patches and Cole because without him he is just a scrub.

Im sick of all this bull**** love for this guy. And if any of you, for a second, think he is better than Pleks, even offensively, then im sorry but your either oblivious or dumb.

/rant.
Well personally I hate people who put down Pleky (aka the new Koivu) or Eller because DD is doing well but no need to bash the guy either. I mean he has his flaws and I do think he is pretty sheltered but you can't deny that he is doing the most of what is given to him. Can't hate on that and he does have really really good vision. And he tries defensively, it's not like he floats around , he just can't cover as much ice as Plek(speed) or Eller(size and speed), so that means he has his limits in the Dzone, doesn't mean he isn't a legit NHL player.

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01-16-2012, 12:02 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EllertoKostitsynGoal View Post
Well personally I hate people who put down Pleky (aka the new Koivu) or Eller because DD is doing well but no need to bash the guy either. I mean he has his flaws and I do think he is pretty sheltered but you can't deny that he is doing the most of what is given to him. Can't hate on that and he does have really really good vision. And he tries defensively, it's not like he floats around , he just can't cover as much ice as Plek(speed) or Eller(size and speed), so that means he has his limits in the Dzone, doesn't mean he isn't a legit NHL player.
Just watch desharnais in our zone when he makes eye contact with the puck.

Then u'll know hes pretty much useless in defense.

Ok i dindt go hard on DD ... But ya he summed it all up pretty well.
Watch a game objectively.

And about toews like i stated hes one of the players i loved. (Along with E. Staal Getzlaf, Backstrom ....) But saying he should win the hart his just plain wrong. Or putting him in the top 5 of the nhl is like saying Justin Bieber would farewell in the Nfl. Bad example ? XD

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01-16-2012, 01:00 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Habiton View Post
Holy s*** this is embarrassing. Take your blinders off!

The best way to evaluate your players is to get the opinion of other professional's around the league. DD might, *might* yield you a 3rd, if your lucky a late 2nd.

On to why.

In order for DD to be effective he needs to play against weaker competition and with offensive wingers. Please, just please put him with Darche and Moen for a change then he will feel what Eller does. Does anyone remember when Eller was with Patches and Cole? That line was fricken dynamite, and thats when Patches was playing awful (and it was worse with DD might I add). Eller is the superior talent in all 3 areas. Its pretty obvious to see that, try to take an objective view and you will notice it.

You all say that DD is so great offensively, okay so since he is averaging in the top of PP time, how good is our powerplay doing? Its top in the league right! Because DD is so creative and fast and has such great vision!

Oh wait....its awful. #blamesubban.

DD is consistently getting our best, and most powerful, wingers...and to boot plays against other teams weaker lines. But no!!! he plays more even strength than Eller!! I agree he does, but consider that other teams top 6 always play on the PP, the average is around 3-4 minutes per game and the average top sixer plays around 17-19 minutes per game. So thats about 13 minutes ES. Guess how much Eller and Pleks have?

Also if you recall Martin specifically said that Eller should be proud of his play, he got promoted to top 6 duties. Defensively at least.

Another thing, DD hasnt heard of the word defense. He follows the puck worse than 10 year olds. He needs Patches and Cole because without him he is just a scrub.

Im sick of all this bull**** love for this guy. And if any of you, for a second, think he is better than Pleks, even offensively, then im sorry but your either oblivious or dumb.

/rant.
A scrub? Bahaha. Can't take this seriously anymore.

Bashing Pleks or Eller is stupid, like you say. Bashing Desharnais is just as stupid.

Ps. Desharnais produced with Leblanc and Cancerlleri too, but I guess they were responsible for that. He produced with bums last year, but let's just forget about that.

Maybe you should look at things objectively. Cammalleri, Leblanc, Cole, and Pacioretty have done nothing but compliment Desharnais' skill and vision.

Oh and lol, the fact that you're acting like Subban isn't the biggest joke on the power play (this season) is gut wrenchingly funny.

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Old
01-16-2012, 01:16 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Just watch desharnais in our zone when he makes eye contact with the puck.

Then u'll know hes pretty much useless in defense.

Ok i dindt go hard on DD ... But ya he summed it all up pretty well.
Watch a game objectively.

And about toews like i stated hes one of the players i loved. (Along with E. Staal Getzlaf, Backstrom ....) But saying he should win the hart his just plain wrong. Or putting him in the top 5 of the nhl is like saying Justin Bieber would farewell in the Nfl. Bad example ? XD
Seriously, I'm probably Eller's biggest fan and I think he'll be easily the better all around player in a few years so it would be pretty easy for me to say DD sucks defensively and isn't NHL caliber but since I'm watching the game objectivly like you said I won't trash the guy for no reason. I actually know DD isn't a two way center and that he benefits from softer matchups but you can't deny he's played well in the O zone. He has his flaws and I'd love it if Eller got the same opportunities he got but you can't hate him for doing the most he can out of this. A year ago people tought he would be a career AHLer so he's been pretty impressive.

And I'm not the one who talked about Toews earlier so I don't know what the hell your'e talking about.

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01-16-2012, 01:21 AM
  #82
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01-16-2012, 01:32 AM
  #83
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I have been wondering about his durbaility. Well, we are midway through the season, and he just seems to get better. He's now got 10 points in his last 8 games and shows now signs of wearing down.

Even last year, I thought he played his best hockey towards the latter stages of the playoffs.

I'll say one thing about the guy... he works his ass off and he's not afraid to get in the trenches with the big trees.

Whether a team can be successful in the long run with a small centre (who plays a large role) is up for debate, but I do admire him.

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01-16-2012, 01:50 AM
  #84
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What I like about Desharnais when compared to Eller is that he got the split second Eller doesn't have yet... or maybe he had in his 4-goals game but lost it afterwards. He finishes his plays. Passes are on the tape. He's not doing spins and fancy plays for no reason, and if he does, it's all calculated and it doesn't fail as much as when Eller tries it. Not bashing Eller here, he's got talent too, but DD has a huge advance in my opinion.

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Old
01-16-2012, 09:08 AM
  #85
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Another good thing about DD : He doesn't get injured pretty often. Durability is rare in today's NHL.

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01-16-2012, 09:31 AM
  #86
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He's also 3 years older than Eller.

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01-16-2012, 09:33 AM
  #87
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People gotta keep in mind that this is his first FULL year in the NHL too, he's impressed me a lot and for a team that struggles with offense him getting over 50 points would be huge.

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01-16-2012, 09:48 AM
  #88
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People gotta keep in mind that this is his first FULL year in the NHL too, he's impressed me a lot and for a team that struggles with offense him getting over 50 points would be huge.
Yhea. Really annoys me to have DD. Without him, we'd be a top-2 draft pick lottery assured.

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01-16-2012, 09:48 AM
  #89
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Desharnais is a keeper. Will probably always be cheap and shows up at every game

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01-16-2012, 09:52 AM
  #90
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Why does it have to be Eller vs DD vs Pleks.

How anyone can hate on DD at this time is beyond me. The kid is playing amazingly. He is a BIG reason for his line's success right now. He's not a great defensive player, but his offensive skill is definitely up there.

Eller is young but clearly has potential. He's got good offensive instincts and is strong defensively. Let the kid develop.

Pleks is Pleks. Not playing up to his usual standard but he's never playing with the same wingers either so he's always having to adjust. He's still very effective defensively though.

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01-16-2012, 10:33 AM
  #91
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On DD getting sheltered isn't that the goal as a coach to put your bests player against weaker opponent ?

Plus when they are away they have to face opponent's best shutdown line because they are habs best line and yet DD as more point than either Cole or Pacioretty when they are visitors.

If DD is being sheltered than most of nhl's 1st line must be too because they tend to play againsts opponent shutdown line too.

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01-16-2012, 10:47 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrunkenHabz View Post
What I like about Desharnais when compared to Eller is that he got the split second Eller doesn't have yet... or maybe he had in his 4-goals game but lost it afterwards. He finishes his plays. Passes are on the tape. He's not doing spins and fancy plays for no reason, and if he does, it's all calculated and it doesn't fail as much as when Eller tries it. Not bashing Eller here, he's got talent too, but DD has a huge advance in my opinion.
Like someone said just above, that split second is a three years advantage wich is huge when comparing a 25 year old to a 22 year old.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fufonzo View Post
Why does it have to be Eller vs DD vs Pleks.

How anyone can hate on DD at this time is beyond me. The kid is playing amazingly. He is a BIG reason for his line's success right now. He's not a great defensive player, but his offensive skill is definitely up there.

Eller is young but clearly has potential. He's got good offensive instincts and is strong defensively. Let the kid develop.

Pleks is Pleks. Not playing up to his usual standard but he's never playing with the same wingers either so he's always having to adjust. He's still very effective defensively though.
I think alot of it has to do with Plek fan and Eller fan getting the feeling they are both getting shafted by DD getting the easier minutes+two best wingers. I know I did get that feeling sometimes but, while they were alot of injuries, the best way to win was probably to let Plek handle tough matchups by himself while Eller took the rest backed up by our first D pair to help him. The DD line did really good in its role so it stuck.

But it's pretty easy to understand why Pleky fans wouldn't like seeing our best overall player and leading scorer of the past few year getting all the scrap wingers and brutal assignments espescially since he's been getting alot of heat these past few weeks for playing in a situation in wich, as much as I like his offence, DD would be getting burned in.

As for Eller fans (like right here ) it can get frustrating seeing him get critised for every single D mistake (espescially since lots are worst than him on the team), not getting a chance on the PP and not getting the chance to devellop his Offensive game by getting softer matchups with 2 good wingers wich in the end is probably for the best (mostly the soft matchups )since they don't project as the same type of player at all and the best two-way centers (Richards,Kesler,Koivu..) aren't the type of players who are develloped in the same way DD is. It's also pretty annoying seeing the guy called a bust who'll top out as a 3rd line center because he somehow can't be on pace for 50 ES points in his second full NHL season (as a 22 year old), playing a pretty defensive role, anyone who expected that has some crazy idea about player devellopment.

But in the end I think all 3 can be on the same thing. Sure if one has to get moved to the wing I would move DD before Eller since we need Eller's skill set at center more but if they both remain centers I could see, in a best case scenario for both, DD being the Briere to Eller's Richards. Not the same player at all, and I'm more of a Richards fan (Subban comment exluded ) than a Briere one, but they both excel in their specific roles and both have their use on a contending team.


Last edited by EllertoKostitsynGoal: 01-16-2012 at 10:55 AM.
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Old
01-16-2012, 10:54 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by durojean View Post
On DD getting sheltered isn't that the goal as a coach to put your bests player against weaker opponent ?

Plus when they are away they have to face opponent's best shutdown line because they are habs best line and yet DD as more point than either Cole or Pacioretty when they are visitors.

If DD is being sheltered than most of nhl's 1st line must be too because they tend to play againsts opponent shutdown line too.
Well in the NHL these day the shutdown line does tend to be the first line. Few teams follow the Anaheim cup winning model anymore. The exception that stick outs to me are Vancouver (where Malhotra does the dirty job and Kesler does the rest so the Sedins gets all the soft minutes wich is clear when you notice the 20 pts+ jump that occured in their production when Van got Malhotra)and Chicago with Bolland.

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01-16-2012, 10:57 AM
  #94
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DD will def. finish with more pts than Pleks. In Pleks' defense though, DD plays with our best wingers.

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01-16-2012, 12:59 PM
  #95
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Holy s*** this is embarrassing. Take your blinders off!

The best way to evaluate your players is to get the opinion of other professional's around the league. DD might, *might* yield you a 3rd, if your lucky a late 2nd.

On to why.

In order for DD to be effective he needs to play against weaker competition and with offensive wingers. Please, just please put him with Darche and Moen for a change then he will feel what Eller does. Does anyone remember when Eller was with Patches and Cole? That line was fricken dynamite, and thats when Patches was playing awful (and it was worse with DD might I add). Eller is the superior talent in all 3 areas. Its pretty obvious to see that, try to take an objective view and you will notice it.

You all say that DD is so great offensively, okay so since he is averaging in the top of PP time, how good is our powerplay doing? Its top in the league right! Because DD is so creative and fast and has such great vision!

Oh wait....its awful. #blamesubban.

DD is consistently getting our best, and most powerful, wingers...and to boot plays against other teams weaker lines. But no!!! he plays more even strength than Eller!! I agree he does, but consider that other teams top 6 always play on the PP, the average is around 3-4 minutes per game and the average top sixer plays around 17-19 minutes per game. So thats about 13 minutes ES. Guess how much Eller and Pleks have?

Also if you recall Martin specifically said that Eller should be proud of his play, he got promoted to top 6 duties. Defensively at least.

Another thing, DD hasnt heard of the word defense. He follows the puck worse than 10 year olds. He needs Patches and Cole because without him he is just a scrub.

Im sick of all this bull**** love for this guy. And if any of you, for a second, think he is better than Pleks, even offensively, then im sorry but your either oblivious or dumb.

/rant.
dd doesn't NEED our best wingers to produce, that's where you are wrong. last year, playing with moen, darche and benny ****ing poopoo he was still producing at a ~45 point clip with nothing ice-time.

this year, no matter who you put with him, he finds ways to produce. when cole was cold early on, martin put him with dd and cole hasn't looked back. same for cammy - although his stint with dd didn't last so long

yes he's weak defensively and he can certainly improve in other areas but we are talking about a guy who's barely got 100 games under his belt, and judging by his learning curve in areas such as his faceoffs win %, it's not out of the realm of possibility to think that he will eventually erase or lessen those weaknesses. just look back at some of the games last year, he was completely man-handled on the boards, now, not so much. check boucher scouting number's if you believe me.

and he's signed for two years @ 800k

you start your post with "take off you blinders" but you forgot yours are still on...

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01-16-2012, 01:18 PM
  #96
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dd doesn't NEED our best wingers to produce, that's where you are wrong. last year, playing with moen, darche and benny ****ing poopoo he was still producing at a ~45 point clip with nothing ice-time.

this year, no matter who you put with him, he finds ways to produce. when cole was cold early on, martin put him with dd and cole hasn't looked back. same for cammy - although his stint with dd didn't last so long

yes he's weak defensively and he can certainly improve in other areas but we are talking about a guy who's barely got 100 games under his belt, and judging by his learning curve in areas such as his faceoffs win %, it's not out of the realm of possibility to think that he will eventually erase or lessen those weaknesses. just look back at some of the games last year, he was completely man-handled on the boards, now, not so much. check boucher scouting number's if you believe me.

and he's signed for two years @ 800k

you start your post with "take off you blinders" but you forgot yours are still on...
Well technically he had 14 ES points playing with our 4th leading ES scorer (that woul be Benny PouPou ). The rest was on the powerplay and when Pouliot had his usual end of the season disapearing act, DD did disappear from the score sheet, wich is perfectly normal for a playmaker. I just feel like acting like he made fourth liners score out of nowhere is kind of revisionnist history. I'm no Pouliot fan, mainly because he basically got half of his points on a 25 game streak before becoming a complete liability and then getting the other half of his points in another 25 game streak only to go back to being a complete liability again but the fact remains that he was the fourth leader on the team in ES points so we can't exactly write him off from last season.

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01-16-2012, 01:37 PM
  #97
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The arguments of DD needing "these type of linemates" or "getting this type of shielding" and this, that and whatever is gettting a bit silly. He produces. He's been a top notch producer at every level he has played and now-after his first full season equivalent (80 games)-he's a top producer for an NHL team. What is so astonishing about that?

What has been the motivation to shield this guy? He's undrafted and the team has virtually no financial interest vested in this guy. He's a freebee. I suppose that he's a francophone could be a motivation, but I tend to doubt that. He's used in order to maximize his advantage. Period. And why? Because he has the opportunity to be more productive than anyone else in the situations (linemates, game situations) in which he's being used.

If someone wants to look to find a shielded player on the Canadiens, then look no further than Gomez. His contract has allowed him a buffer from the reality of his putrid game. He hasn't deserved top 6 minutes in well over a season, yet Jacques Martin may have cost himself his job by continuing to insert Gomez in situations (PP/overall ice time) which clearly weren't deserved.

That's shielding.

That DD would ultimately surpass Plekanec in offensive production should come as no surprise. He was a much more productive player than TP was at any previous level. This is not to demean TP or state that DD is a better overall player; it merely is a logical deduction based on past experience.

Enjoy the kid. The Canadiens are lucky to have him.

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01-16-2012, 02:55 PM
  #98
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DD is without a doubt the only true centre man on this team. He has better vision, hands and a bigger heart than Eller and especially Pleks. I does not matter who he plays with. He is creative and is very dangerous in the offensive zone. He is also pretty darn responsible defensively. Whenever Pleks had Cole, Cammy, Patches or anyone else, what happened? Not much. Pleks is not creative and smart enough to be a centre man. He doesn't have a good enough shot to be a scoring winger. We are basically stuck with a third line player that is being played like a top six forward. Big, big problem. DD has saved this team from complete and total embarrassment. I love this guy. He also plays far beyond his size. He is fun to watch.

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01-16-2012, 03:16 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habiton View Post
Holy s*** this is embarrassing. Take your blinders off!

The best way to evaluate your players is to get the opinion of other professional's around the league. DD might, *might* yield you a 3rd, if your lucky a late 2nd.

On to why.

In order for DD to be effective he needs to play against weaker competition and with offensive wingers. Please, just please put him with Darche and Moen for a change then he will feel what Eller does. Does anyone remember when Eller was with Patches and Cole? That line was fricken dynamite, and thats when Patches was playing awful (and it was worse with DD might I add). Eller is the superior talent in all 3 areas. Its pretty obvious to see that, try to take an objective view and you will notice it.

You all say that DD is so great offensively, okay so since he is averaging in the top of PP time, how good is our powerplay doing? Its top in the league right! Because DD is so creative and fast and has such great vision!

Oh wait....its awful. #blamesubban.

DD is consistently getting our best, and most powerful, wingers...and to boot plays against other teams weaker lines. But no!!! he plays more even strength than Eller!! I agree he does, but consider that other teams top 6 always play on the PP, the average is around 3-4 minutes per game and the average top sixer plays around 17-19 minutes per game. So thats about 13 minutes ES. Guess how much Eller and Pleks have?

Also if you recall Martin specifically said that Eller should be proud of his play, he got promoted to top 6 duties. Defensively at least.

Another thing, DD hasnt heard of the word defense. He follows the puck worse than 10 year olds. He needs Patches and Cole because without him he is just a scrub.

Im sick of all this bull**** love for this guy. And if any of you, for a second, think he is better than Pleks, even offensively, then im sorry but your either oblivious or dumb.

/rant.
This has my vote for the worst post of the month.
Pretty much all wrong.

and BTW the PP sucks certainly not because of DD but..and I'll say this for the 56425433 times , because of our point men. As long as we won't have a hard and precise shooter we'll suck. Kaberle was a dumb addition.

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01-16-2012, 03:48 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
The arguments of DD needing "these type of linemates" or "getting this type of shielding" and this, that and whatever is gettting a bit silly. He produces. He's been a top notch producer at every level he has played and now-after his first full season equivalent (80 games)-he's a top producer for an NHL team. What is so astonishing about that?

What has been the motivation to shield this guy? He's undrafted and the team has virtually no financial interest vested in this guy. He's a freebee. I suppose that he's a francophone could be a motivation, but I tend to doubt that. He's used in order to maximize his advantage. Period. And why? Because he has the opportunity to be more productive than anyone else in the situations (linemates, game situations) in which he's being used.

If someone wants to look to find a shielded player on the Canadiens, then look no further than Gomez. His contract has allowed him a buffer from the reality of his putrid game. He hasn't deserved top 6 minutes in well over a season, yet Jacques Martin may have cost himself his job by continuing to insert Gomez in situations (PP/overall ice time) which clearly weren't deserved.

That's shielding.

That DD would ultimately surpass Plekanec in offensive production should come as no surprise. He was a much more productive player than TP was at any previous level. This is not to demean TP or state that DD is a better overall player; it merely is a logical deduction based on past experience.

Enjoy the kid. The Canadiens are lucky to have him.
Thank you, I agree with all you said. Please post more, we desperately need level headed posters here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbA
DD is without a doubt the only true centre man on this team. He has better vision, hands and a bigger heart than Eller and especially Pleks. I does not matter who he plays with. He is creative and is very dangerous in the offensive zone. He is also pretty darn responsible defensively. Whenever Pleks had Cole, Cammy, Patches or anyone else, what happened? Not much. Pleks is not creative and smart enough to be a centre man. He doesn't have a good enough shot to be a scoring winger. We are basically stuck with a third line player that is being played like a top six forward. Big, big problem. DD has saved this team from complete and total embarrassment. I love this guy. He also plays far beyond his size. He is fun to watch.
Plekanec not a real center man? You've got to be kidding...

Plekanec might be having a bit of a down year offensively but he's still one of the league's best centers defensively. This indicates he does have great vision and heart, because he constantly works his ass off. He understands the game well and is a cerebral player.

His offensive production suffers from a putrid powerplay and lack of talented linemates.

I don't see the point in having to bring him down in order to glorify Desharnais. I think both AND Eller can and will be part of the future of this team. Its like Koivu vs Kovalev all over again, useless debate... I swear if we were the 06-07 Ducks fans here would be at each other's throath debating who of Niedermayer or Pronger is better and who should be traded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zx81
and BTW the PP sucks certainly not because of DD but..and I'll say this for the 56425433 times , because of our point men. As long as we won't have a hard and precise shooter we'll suck. Kaberle was a dumb addition.
Kaberle would have been part of the solution if we had a shooter as you said. I doubt even when Markov is back that its going to work out since neither are shooters.

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