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How does Tort's get Brad Richards going??

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01-16-2012, 09:53 AM
  #51
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12 of Richards' 31 points have come from the PP. More than any other player on the team. Last year he had 29 PP points. So he's on pace to fall short of that mark by 4 or 5 points this year. Can't see how that's the problem. Also, wasn't fixing the PP part of the reason he was signed in the first place?

He's supposed to be a 1st line center. A guy that makes the players around him better. Kudos to him for the mentoring he's doing for Stepan and Del Zotto, but we need him to do more on the ice. You can say "get him better line mates" but what does it say to that point when his primary line mate has just as many points as he does? I agree he needs a consistent option on the LW, but he just hasn't been doing what he needs to do on the ice. He looks rushed and confused whenever he has the puck. He has to be better in spite of whatever circumstances he's in.

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01-16-2012, 09:59 AM
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Great post TRX!!

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01-16-2012, 10:01 AM
  #53
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I should of known that Ranger4life had a day of school today with such a dumb comment. Either your off school today or there is no kickball game at recess today, and you have some "free time" before the teacher blows the whistle to go back to class. This has nothing to do with Stepan. Richards has been awful the last 20 games and you don't want to believe that. Does not have a shooter, he is in the wrong place on the pp, he is not playing with Gabby, those are all excuses for a 12 year pro that we are paying alot of money to that has been a bust so far this year. Stop with the excuses and call it like it is. Esa10, I am pretty sure that Tort's does not have to explain to you why Richie is not with Gabby. I will though, it is working with Stepan and they are winning. Tough concept eh!!!
Insults are so 5th grade,and you were accusing me of being in school?yes,this isnt a Stepan thread,you've only compared Richards production to his about 5 times,but you're right,not about Stepan at all.some of you guys seriously make me wonder if you have any idea about this sport.

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01-16-2012, 10:04 AM
  #54
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12 of Richards' 31 points have come from the PP. More than any other player on the team. Last year he had 29 PP points. So he's on pace to fall short of that mark by 4 or 5 points this year. Can't see how that's the problem. Also, wasn't fixing the PP part of the reason he was signed in the first place?

He's supposed to be a 1st line center. A guy that makes the players around him better. Kudos to him for the mentoring he's doing for Stepan and Del Zotto, but we need him to do more on the ice. You can say "get him better line mates" but what does it say to that point when his primary line mate has just as many points as he does? I agree he needs a consistent option on the LW, but he just hasn't been doing what he needs to do on the ice. He looks rushed and confused whenever he has the puck. He has to be better in spite of whatever circumstances he's in.
good post and i agree with it.yes,he does need to be better.but my problem is those in the thread labeling him already because they expected 100 points out of him which is silly.if the guy puts up a point a game in the 2nd half which he is easily capable of,you'll still have people complaining about him in some way.

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01-16-2012, 10:05 AM
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I remember a game this year, when Gaborik and Richards were red hot, and one of the announcers said (and I'm paraphrasing) "Tortorella said he wants Gaborik and Richards to play more like Callahan and Dubinsky."

Maybe I'm taking that out of context, but why would they? They're skill players, not grinders. Just because your not playing like Dubi and Callahan, doesn't mean your not putting forth an effort.

When they're producing, playing more of a skill game and winning, why try and make them something they're not? Let them play their game.

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01-16-2012, 10:08 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Rangers4Life74 View Post
good post and i agree with it.yes,he does need to be better.but my problem is those in the thread labeling him already because they expected 100 points out of him which is silly.if the guy puts up a point a game in the 2nd half which he is easily capable of,you'll still have people complaining about him in some way.
Well I can't speak for anyone but myself. I think some had unrealistic expectations for him, but that comes with the territory. If he puts up a PPG in the second half, great! That's what we need out of him. However, he's going to need to find another gear if he hopes to do that.

Just to add: I think there's a problem when you invest the kind of money in a player that we did with Richards, and 44 games into the season we're already talking about "getting him X" or "he really needs Y". Great players are great players. Gaborik scored 42 goals with Prospal and EC on his line. I'm sure Richards has it in him to be a 70 point center with Callahan on his wing.

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01-16-2012, 10:10 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
12 of Richards' 31 points have come from the PP. More than any other player on the team. Last year he had 29 PP points. So he's on pace to fall short of that mark by 4 or 5 points this year. Can't see how that's the problem. Also, wasn't fixing the PP part of the reason he was signed in the first place?

He's supposed to be a 1st line center. A guy that makes the players around him better. Kudos to him for the mentoring he's doing for Stepan and Del Zotto, but we need him to do more on the ice. You can say "get him better line mates" but what does it say to that point when his primary line mate has just as many points as he does? I agree he needs a consistent option on the LW, but he just hasn't been doing what he needs to do on the ice. He looks rushed and confused whenever he has the puck. He has to be better in spite of whatever circumstances he's in.
The reason the power play is the reason is because you need to think the opposite of how you're viewing it. Look at 5-on-5. What linemates does Richards have that compare to Eriksson and Benn? No one. If people expect Richards to put up the same type of points that he did in Dallas then he damn sure better make up those extra points on the power play, because even strength he does not have the same supporting cast that he did in Dallas. Do you understand what I'm saying?

Fixing the power play is the reason they say everyone is signed. It was one of the big reasons people were thrilled when Renney was canned as well, because Torts was a power play genius.

Well needless to say the power play has been just as bad, if not worse, under Torts.

We just don't have many natural finishers besides Gaborik, and for whatever reason we don't seem to ever get him to puck in good areas on the PP.

You can't expect Richards to fix the power play when every time he sets someone up they can't finish.

The bottom line is this power play is a big, big problem. We spend more than half of it trying to get in the zone and set up. That's a coaching problem, IMO. This team never seems to know what they're doing.

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01-16-2012, 10:17 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by SomebodySaveKreider View Post
I remember a game this year, when Gaborik and Richards were red hot, and one of the announcers said (and I'm paraphrasing) "Tortorella said he wants Gaborik and Richards to play more like Callahan and Dubinsky."

Maybe I'm taking that out of context, but why would they? They're skill players, not grinders. Just because your not playing like Dubi and Callahan, doesn't mean your not putting forth an effort.

When they're producing, playing more of a skill game and winning, why try and make them something they're not? Let them play their game.
This is Tortorella's M.O. It has been since he got here. He's seemingly unable to coach different types of players. He demands every player play the exact same way, instead of utilizing strengths and having to deal with different styles. How many times have you seen him bench Gaborik since he's been the coach? Now he's on to Anisimov. He has even benched Richards this year and that's his boy. On the other side of that, how many times do you see guys like Boyle benched? It's just how Torts is.

Remember, after carrying the team on his back in his first season here with 42 goals or whatever it was, who was the player that Torts threw under the bus after they lost to Philly to end the season?

Torts only tolerates talent if it includes physicality. Richards and Gabby are not physical players.

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01-16-2012, 10:18 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by SomebodySaveKreider View Post
I remember a game this year, when Gaborik and Richards were red hot, and one of the announcers said (and I'm paraphrasing) "Tortorella said he wants Gaborik and Richards to play more like Callahan and Dubinsky."

Maybe I'm taking that out of context, but why would they? They're skill players, not grinders. Just because your not playing like Dubi and Callahan, doesn't mean your not putting forth an effort.

When they're producing, playing more of a skill game and winning, why try and make them something they're not? Let them play their game.
Because that's the mold of this team. When this team gets too fancy and starts thinking they are the Detroit Red Wings, they run into trouble. For example, during the Caps game a few weeks ago, both Richards and Mitchell were guilty of trying to make a move at the blue line instead of chipping the puck in deep, and it resulted in a goal against.

Also, when this team is winning, I don't think they are playing a skill game at all. They are grinding it out, forechecking hard, and outworking the opposition. When the Rangers start overpassing the puck and looking for the perfect play, they get away from their game plan and aren't as effective.

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01-16-2012, 10:21 AM
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Because that's the mold of this team. When this team gets too fancy and starts thinking they are the Detroit Red Wings, they run into trouble. For example, during the Caps game a few weeks ago, both Richards and Mitchell were guilty of trying to make a move at the blue line instead of chipping the puck in deep, and it resulted in a goal against.

Also, when this team is winning, I don't think they are playing a skill game at all. They are grinding it out, forechecking hard, and outworking the opposition. When the Rangers start overpassing the puck and looking for the perfect play, they get away from their game plan and aren't as effective.
And we wonder why the power play is so bad!

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01-16-2012, 10:23 AM
  #61
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I'm still torn on Richards. To ruckus' point, as much as I love Cally/Dubi/Hagelin they are not quite on the same level as Eriksson or Benn. Great players should be able to produce either way, no doubt, but perhaps the toughest position to do that in is as a great setup-man. Our system is not really doing him any favors either, as at the end of the day this is a dump and chase team not a puck possession team (neutral zone).

There are still 4-5 passes Richards makes a game that make me go "wow, noone on our squad even thinks to do that last year". No, that does not include the random centering passes to noone. He's scored some dn clutch goals too.

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01-16-2012, 10:26 AM
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another thing with Richards is keep him on the point on the PP.We brought him here to be the PP qb and Torts is switching him back and forth so much,the guy probably isnt sure what to do(lol).keep him on the point with DZ.stop with the constant switching of him back and forth between point and the wall.

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01-16-2012, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
I'm still torn on Richards. To ruckus' point, as much as I love Cally/Dubi/Hagelin they are not quite on the same level as Eriksson or Benn. Great players should be able to produce either way, no doubt, but perhaps the toughest position to do that in is as a great setup-man. Our system is not really doing him any favors either, as at the end of the day this is a dump and chase team not a puck possession team (neutral zone).

There are still 4-5 passes Richards makes a game that make me go "wow, noone on our squad even thinks to do that last year". No, that does not include the random centering passes to noone. He's scored some dn clutch goals too.
Question: Do you think we can ever become as puck possession team?

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01-16-2012, 10:30 AM
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Question: Do you think we can ever become as puck possession team?
I don't know if we can or not but I know we won't (anytime soon). It's not part of the system, and the system has been working thus far. And to clarify I am talking neutral zone / transition puck possession, not offensive zone hold/cycle puck possession.

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01-16-2012, 10:37 AM
  #65
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This is Tortorella's M.O. It has been since he got here. He's seemingly unable to coach different types of players. He demands every player play the exact same way, instead of utilizing strengths and having to deal with different styles. How many times have you seen him bench Gaborik since he's been the coach? Now he's on to Anisimov. He has even benched Richards this year and that's his boy. On the other side of that, how many times do you see guys like Boyle benched? It's just how Torts is.

Remember, after carrying the team on his back in his first season here with 42 goals or whatever it was, who was the player that Torts threw under the bus after they lost to Philly to end the season?

Torts only tolerates talent if it includes physicality. Richards and Gabby are not physical players.
I agree, to an extent. But how many "skill players" have we had come through here in the last 15 years that fell on their face because of sheer willingless to engage and get their noses dirty?

Talent is not something you can necessarily teach. But I like Tortorella's message that you're going to have to get a little dirty no matter who you are.

And, hey, guess what - its working. Although, looking at your posts, one might think we're scratching and clawing for a playoff spot again

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01-16-2012, 10:47 AM
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Needs to improve his play in our own zone too.

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Something tells me this is a thinly veiled'Stepan is the man,Richards sucks thread'by Stepans #1 stalker fan.


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01-16-2012, 11:25 AM
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During Richards' career there have been many stretches where he has put up numbers well below his average. Then he follows with stretches where he puts up numbers well above his career average, leveling out his dry spells. This is the essence of the sport... Most players who hit 70-80 points aren't on pace for that number the entire year, unless you are Sidney Crosby or Datsyuk. They either start off on pace for much more and regress, or start off slow and finish strong.

Yes, it is unsettling that BR has put up 2 assists in a long stretch of games, but the guy has also put up 6 GWG which is vastly more valuable to this team than stat padding secondary assists on the Powerplay.

At the beginning of the year, I said I would be fine if BR put up 65 points thinking that Torts would use him against the top competition allowing Gaborik's line to feast upon the lesser competition. I'm not the only one who had a funny feeling that Richards and Gaborik wouldn't click. Anyway, the point is, Richards' has a hand in Gaborik's success, and he has a bigger hand in the team's success, and it goes beyond assists, or lack thereof.

Richards' presence makes the team more dangerous, and I'm not about to start calling for heads halfway through year 1 in the contract, especially considering our position in the conference and the contributions Richards made to help put us there. I'll wait for year 2.

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01-16-2012, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by SomebodySaveKreider View Post
I remember a game this year, when Gaborik and Richards were red hot, and one of the announcers said (and I'm paraphrasing) "Tortorella said he wants Gaborik and Richards to play more like Callahan and Dubinsky."

Maybe I'm taking that out of context, but why would they? They're skill players, not grinders. Just because your not playing like Dubi and Callahan, doesn't mean your not putting forth an effort.

When they're producing, playing more of a skill game and winning, why try and make them something they're not? Let them play their game.
I don't know if I'd call Cally and Dubi grinders exactly. I do agree that Gabby and Richards need to at least make their skill more evident during their shifts, because they're both absolute no-shows right now, especially Richards.

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01-16-2012, 11:36 AM
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Dubi's game is back. Wolski is garbage. Dubi should be back in the line-up tomorrow.

Roll Dubi-Richie-Cally and keep it that way the rest of the year. Richards will do well with those two.

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01-16-2012, 11:45 AM
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The season is just beginning . A lot of us have been spoiled with our record and mesmerized by it . The team has won a lot of different TYPES of games but the ones they have lost have been identical for the most part . The NYR can and will win if they get a lead and get Henke to stand on his head . We have won from behind a couple of times but for the most part if we somehow fall behind and get into trading chances with a more skilled team it's good night . The only wu I feel this team continues to be among the class if the league is to play he grind it out style . Torts coaches to keep his job and thats only happening if the team wins and the only wAy this team will win Is by grinding . To me BRAD as the team is currently constructed will have a lot of nights like he's been having . Unless try are willing to change their style and in turn their personnell in order to do that be prepared to be frustrated by BRADS , play . Even if we make trades and bring in complimentary players that fit BRADS style of game will they fit the system Torts has in his place that wins and in turn keeps him as Head Coach if te NYR . Bottom line I hope it doesn't happen but be prepared for the NYR to come back to the pack as OTT , NJ are starting to roll and a bit of a slide and the injury bug are bound to be right around the corner .

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01-16-2012, 12:01 PM
  #71
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The reason the power play is the reason is because you need to think the opposite of how you're viewing it. Look at 5-on-5. What linemates does Richards have that compare to Eriksson and Benn? No one. If people expect Richards to put up the same type of points that he did in Dallas then he damn sure better make up those extra points on the power play, because even strength he does not have the same supporting cast that he did in Dallas. Do you understand what I'm saying?
How are Eriksson and Benn doing this year without Richards? They haven't missed a beat. Both hovering at a point per game. Richards was sold as a #1 center. That type of player needs to make the players around him better. It's really that simple.

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Fixing the power play is the reason they say everyone is signed. It was one of the big reasons people were thrilled when Renney was canned as well, because Torts was a power play genius.

Well needless to say the power play has been just as bad, if not worse, under Torts.

We just don't have many natural finishers besides Gaborik, and for whatever reason we don't seem to ever get him to puck in good areas on the PP.

You can't expect Richards to fix the power play when every time he sets someone up they can't finish.

The bottom line is this power play is a big, big problem. We spend more than half of it trying to get in the zone and set up. That's a coaching problem, IMO. This team never seems to know what they're doing.
That's all well and good, but my point remains that he isn't that far off from his historical totals on the PP. He's on pace for 23 points, and he put up 29 last year. That's a 6 point differential. Meaning he'd finish with 63 points instead of the 57 he's currently on pace to put up. I'm also not seeing these brilliant opportunities that he's setting up his teammates with that they're unable to finish. I see a lot of forced passes into skates, and blind passes into open ice.

Would he benefit from a better option on his left wing? Absolutely, that's a no-brainer. However, when you make an investment in a guy like Richards, he comes with the expectation that he should be able to make the players around him better and not be so reliant on them for his own success.

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01-16-2012, 12:09 PM
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All I know is I want to see Kreider on Richie's line, next year.

Kreider-Richards-Callahan

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01-16-2012, 12:13 PM
  #73
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All I know is I want to see Kreider on Richie's line, next year.

Kreider-Richards-Callahan
Amen.

How about next year trying to re-unite the Pack line.

Kreider-Richards-Gaborik
Dubi/Anisimov-Dubi/Anisimov-Callahan

BOLD = Deadly

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01-16-2012, 12:16 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruckus View Post
This is Tortorella's M.O. It has been since he got here. He's seemingly unable to coach different types of players. He demands every player play the exact same way, instead of utilizing strengths and having to deal with different styles. How many times have you seen him bench Gaborik since he's been the coach? Now he's on to Anisimov. He has even benched Richards this year and that's his boy. On the other side of that, how many times do you see guys like Boyle benched? It's just how Torts is.

Remember, after carrying the team on his back in his first season here with 42 goals or whatever it was, who was the player that Torts threw under the bus after they lost to Philly to end the season?

Torts only tolerates talent if it includes physicality. Richards and Gabby are not physical players.
Yeah but he faded big time in the second half, and I pray it's not happening again. Gaborik needs space and open ice, and as the season wears on the games get tighter. I hope this isn't happening again.

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01-16-2012, 12:20 PM
  #75
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The 2 assists in the last 18 games is alarming. Guy is an elite passer, so that doesnt sit very well.

Even though he has been in a slump we have been winning, so thats the good thing. Hopefully he can get out of the slump when Dubinsky is back and that line can contribute.

Lets also net forget Callahan only has 1 goal in the last 10 games, so he too is someone who is in a slump.

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