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Erik Cole leading the Habs in points

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Old
01-16-2012, 08:47 AM
  #51
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Guy's got serious speed. Watching him chip the puck behind the D in the neutral zone and then win the race to the puck has been one of the only exciting thing about the Habs this year.
Saw a bit of that out of Bourque last night which I hope he keeps up.

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01-16-2012, 08:55 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by geeman View Post
bro , lets look at the facts

I have no issue with Cole at all , never did

but understand what I have mentioned on previous threads

as good as he has played , we arent going anywhere

We are not a Cole away from anything

I need Cole at 24 not 34 , plus WE ARE NOT MAKING THE PLAYOFFS

so how great a signing is this , seriously ? he has played well but comon folks , when you sign these guys like Cole , its to put you

over the top and or moving into contender status , not to be 8 points out with no shot at making it realistically

once again these bandaid patch deals get you knowhere , when you dont have a core group to work with

when Cole is on your top line with DD , it shows how far off we are to compete for anything and thats what its all about

this is not a bash Cole thread , its reality and the bottom line how bad we really are
Well to be honest, who would have thought this team would have been this bad this year? I didn't think adding Cole was going to make us a Stanley Cup contender, but I did feel like we could finish anywhere between 4th and 8th in the conference. After that, its a crap shoot in the playoffs, you never know.

In a year where nothing has gone right for the Habs, injuries, dissapointing veterans, incompetence from behind the bench and at head office, this is one of the few bright spots. If you want to bash the habs, there are about 10 other threads to do it. This is just to discuss this particular player and signing and how great he's been for us this year, regardless of how bad the team is playing.

4 years was probably 1 year too many, but in the end I think he's in a great shape and seems dedicated to the sport. Hopefully he won't lose too much of that speed over the next few year. Also, he seems to have been a great role model for Pacioretty who has come back much stronger than expected this year, and is playing without fear.


Last edited by FrankMTL: 01-16-2012 at 09:17 AM.
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01-16-2012, 09:05 AM
  #53
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I still can't believe Carolina went with Kaberle instead of Cole. First of all didn't they have Corvo who was already a good fit and they gave him away for nothing to Boston who is another team Corvo is a good fit on? Makes no sense imo.

Then they sign Kaberle who imo isn't a good fit for them at all. They lose out on Cole cause of it and a few months later they basically have Spacek instead of Cole and Kaberle, and we end up being the team that has both now

I remember at the time of the trade their GM was furious too, he was saying he should have known better than to give Kabs that deal. It's a 3 year deal for ****s sake. He didn't play well but he could've had more value had he let him play a bit more. Kabs was just turning things around when he was traded to us

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01-16-2012, 10:08 AM
  #54
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"You can't be too satisfied when you're sitting in the 12th seed, so ask me in another month and a half when we're in the playoff picture," Cole said

Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/sport...#ixzz1jdc3fV7e


Difference between Cole's attitude and Cammallerri !

Always liked him...thought the habs should have gone after him when Edmonton picked him up a few years back...he was always a habs killer

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01-16-2012, 10:11 AM
  #55
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As far as the player producing he's been excellent this year. But in reality the Habs are not even a quarter of the way through the contract. So right now it's been a great signing but how will you feel in the next month, next year, the year after or at the end? New brooms sweep clean and I'm sure Cole has a lot to prove.

And I wonder how much the competition thought they'd have to key on Cole given his past struggles away from Carolina. He may again become a player to key on and will start to struggle - who knows.

The player has done great but look where the Habs stand. And I will say this until the cows come home but the real need on the team wasn't addressed and that was the need for another well rounded d-man to replace Hamrlik. There's no excuse for that IMO. Counting on Markov being ready to go was a huge mistake and inexcusable given Markov's history of late and all of the D injuries the past four years.

The Cole signing definitely addressed a need that the Habs have had. But in the grand scheme of things the team is actually worse. A team that went to the ECF finals not long ago and challenged the eventual SCC to the very end added Cole and actually got worse. Pacioretty was even back.

It's a great signing up front but I'm looking for another chain of events to put the D back together so that it can withstand injuries especially if Markov is always coming back but doesn't. LOL

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01-16-2012, 10:24 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geeman View Post
bro , lets look at the facts

I have no issue with Cole at all , never did

but understand what I have mentioned on previous threads

as good as he has played , we arent going anywhere

We are not a Cole away from anything

I need Cole at 24 not 34 , plus WE ARE NOT MAKING THE PLAYOFFS

so how great a signing is this , seriously ? he has played well but comon folks , when you sign these guys like Cole , its to put you

over the top and or moving into contender status , not to be 8 points out with no shot at making it realistically

once again these bandaid patch deals get you knowhere , when you dont have a core group to work with

when Cole is on your top line with DD , it shows how far off we are to compete for anything and thats what its all about

this is not a bash Cole thread , its reality and the bottom line how bad we really are
Wow. Sorry but this is a completely twisted and flawed analysis of the move.

Here's a question: Pens did not make the playoffs in 05-06 when they picked up Sidney Crosby. So are you gonna ask us: "so how great a signing is this , seriously ?" about that too?

As other people have already mentionned, there are other factors that weight in on the TEAM's performance. Were you expecting Cole to single-handedly compensate for all the injuries and the under-achievers in order to admit that it was a great signing?

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01-16-2012, 04:27 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
Wow. Sorry but this is a completely twisted and flawed analysis of the move.

Here's a question: Pens did not make the playoffs in 05-06 when they picked up Sidney Crosby. So are you gonna ask us: "so how great a signing is this , seriously ?" about that too?

As other people have already mentionned, there are other factors that weight in on the TEAM's performance. Were you expecting Cole to single-handedly compensate for all the injuries and the under-achievers in order to admit that it was a great signing?
Bro the Pens built a team with a core including Crosby ,Malkin , etc....
when you get to that stage you pick up the Kunitz`s of the world to fill in the gaps

you are way of base in your assesment here . Cole was never going to single handedly carry us or compensate for the underachievers bu the bottom line is this

this team is not able to compete with the best in the East

Markov is finished , our D is weak , Gomez, Cammy , Pleks are are what they are

overated and overpaid and if you expected this team to overachieve thats foolish

Sorry bro if you expected Cole , DD and others to seriously make this team better
it wasnt going to happen .

we cant pin our hopes on a fluke playoff run 2 years ago or Cammie`s heroics lats year in round 1 ..We have serious flaws and they were never fixed .

we have no front line talent ..and you can`t compete without it

So adding a Cole to this team , not Pittsburgh , Detroit , Chicago etc ... wont help
and its showing .

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01-16-2012, 04:30 PM
  #58
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As far as the player producing he's been excellent this year. But in reality the Habs are not even a quarter of the way through the contract. So right now it's been a great signing but how will you feel in the next month, next year, the year after or at the end? New brooms sweep clean and I'm sure Cole has a lot to prove.

And I wonder how much the competition thought they'd have to key on Cole given his past struggles away from Carolina. He may again become a player to key on and will start to struggle - who knows.

The player has done great but look where the Habs stand. And I will say this until the cows come home but the real need on the team wasn't addressed and that was the need for another well rounded d-man to replace Hamrlik. There's no excuse for that IMO. Counting on Markov being ready to go was a huge mistake and inexcusable given Markov's history of late and all of the D injuries the past four years.

The Cole signing definitely addressed a need that the Habs have had. But in the grand scheme of things the team is actually worse. A team that went to the ECF finals not long ago and challenged the eventual SCC to the very end added Cole and actually got worse. Pacioretty was even back.

It's a great signing up front but I'm looking for another chain of events to put the D back together so that it can withstand injuries especially if Markov is always coming back but doesn't. LOL


thank you very much , great post

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01-16-2012, 04:36 PM
  #59
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Since the sarcasm indicates that you think the opposite of that post, my guess is Gauthier would agree with you.
  • Drafts Tinordi 6'6
  • Trades for Eller(6'2) and Schultz(6'2) and specifically cites that he did so because the habs needed size and that Schultz brings a unique element.
  • Acquires Cole (6'2)
  • Trades Russell(small forward) for Blunden (6'4)
  • Trades Cammalleri(Small forward) for Bourque (6'2)
  • Brings in Emelin (6'2)
Can't really argue with this.

I know it's a small sample, but I feel that habs took on an instantly new persona with Cammy/Bourque trade.

Besides our D, this is far from a small team. We couldn't say that when the season started and it's only half way through.

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01-16-2012, 04:48 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by axman88 View Post
"You can't be too satisfied when you're sitting in the 12th seed, so ask me in another month and a half when we're in the playoff picture," Cole said

Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/sport...#ixzz1jdc3fV7e

I like this.

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01-17-2012, 10:46 AM
  #61
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In my book, he's our MVP (slightly above Price).
It seems that Eric is missing Erik more than Erik does.

I feel bad that I bashed Cole in the first few games of this season.
between martin's 'research', his limited ice-time at the beginning and a new team, it's understandable he started slowly...

come to think of it, i can't remember many posters not bashing the signing after 5 games.

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01-17-2012, 10:57 AM
  #62
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I still can't believe Carolina went with Kaberle instead of Cole. First of all didn't they have Corvo who was already a good fit and they gave him away for nothing to Boston who is another team Corvo is a good fit on? Makes no sense imo.

Then they sign Kaberle who imo isn't a good fit for them at all. They lose out on Cole cause of it and a few months later they basically have Spacek instead of Cole and Kaberle, and we end up being the team that has both now

I remember at the time of the trade their GM was furious too, he was saying he should have known better than to give Kabs that deal. It's a 3 year deal for ****s sake. He didn't play well but he could've had more value had he let him play a bit more. Kabs was just turning things around when he was traded to us
they wanted to keep Cole, we just upped the ante to a point were they felt it was too risky...

i know it's easy to love the Cole signing right now, the true test of how good of a signing it was lies in A- wether he can keep up a relatively similar level through all 4 years
B- the teams results (which have been awful thus far)

Rutherford made a mistake in believing Kaberle was the player he used to be, and once he/coaching staff realized it, made sure to fix the mistake asap.

Kaberle wasn't "turning things around", he was just getting into passable shape (a guy who signs a 4.25M$ contract and then shows up badly out of shape, tells you a lot about his character and his desire). He's skilled enough to put up points, but there is a reason that, despite his high skill level, he gets bottom-pairing minutes... winning is not his priority, not willing to pay the price just willing to do the minimum to keep collecting a paycheck...

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01-17-2012, 11:09 AM
  #63
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they wanted to keep Cole, we just upped the ante to a point were they felt it was too risky...

i know it's easy to love the Cole signing right now, the true test of how good of a signing it was lies in A- wether he can keep up a relatively similar level through all 4 years
B- the teams results (which have been awful thus far)

Rutherford made a mistake in believing Kaberle was the player he used to be, and once he/coaching staff realized it, made sure to fix the mistake asap.

Kaberle wasn't "turning things around", he was just getting into passable shape (a guy who signs a 4.25M$ contract and then shows up badly out of shape, tells you a lot about his character and his desire). He's skilled enough to put up points, but there is a reason that, despite his high skill level, he gets bottom-pairing minutes... winning is not his priority, not willing to pay the price just willing to do the minimum to keep collecting a paycheck...
Regardless of if that is the case how is he not "turning things around"? He wasn't producing and then he started to, the reasoning behind that isn't even relevant to the fact that he was and is in fact "turning things around".

Now if you want to discuss what kind of player comes to camp out of shape after winning the cup and question his integrity and all that I'm all for it, but I must say Chara and the whole Bruins cast did the same thing and they sure seem like winners from where I'm sitting. It's too easy to criticize Kaberle when he's the odd man out and was on a much worse team than Boston. It was even more obvious how bad he was because he didn't have a good team to get him out of that slump. Yet he still managed to get in shape like those Bruins players and start producing. Do I think a guy who just signed a contract should show up to camp in shape? I think any player under contract for millions of dollars should show up in shape, but you make it sounds like Kabs is the only guy to ever do this. A lot of players do not just Kabs. I don't like it either but he isn't known for doing this, he won the cup and partied, at least he isn't the type of player consistently known for doing it.

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01-17-2012, 11:18 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Regardless of if that is the case how is he not "turning things around"? He wasn't producing and then he started to, the reasoning behind that isn't even relevant to the fact that he was and is in fact "turning things around".

Now if you want to discuss what kind of player comes to camp out of shape after winning the cup and question his integrity and all that I'm all for it, but I must say Chara and the whole Bruins cast did the same thing and they sure seem like winners from where I'm sitting. It's too easy to criticize Kaberle when he's the odd man out and was on a much worse team than Boston. It was even more obvious how bad he was because he didn't have a good team to get him out of that slump. Yet he still managed to get in shape like those Bruins players and start producing. Do I think a guy who just signed a contract should show up to camp in shape? I think any player under contract for millions of dollars should show up in shape, but you make it sounds like Kabs is the only guy to ever do this. A lot of players do not just Kabs. I don't like it either but he isn't known for doing this, he won the cup and partied, at least he isn't the type of player consistently known for doing it.
there's more to "turning it around" then collecting pts... at least if you are a 4M$ dman.

until he is playing at a level where he deserves (I won't say is getting, since you never know with the habs coaches how reward ice time) ~20min+/game, he isn't playing up to the level that
a- he's capable of
b- he's paid to

4.25M$ for a bottom pairing dman who is a strong offensive contributor (hello MAB) is way too much.

doesn't really matter right now, but over the next 2 seasons, assuming we will continue to be a cap spending team, tying up that kind of salary in a guy the coaches don't trust to give top-4 minutes is not a good thing

of course, we can work around it, but just because a team finds a way to deal with a mistake, doesn't erase the reality of the mistake.

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01-17-2012, 01:49 PM
  #65
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Would like for the habs to find 2 more just like cole , don't go out and try to find a one player team type of guy who eats up a good portion of the cap!!

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01-17-2012, 02:07 PM
  #66
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Regardless of if that is the case how is he not "turning things around"? He wasn't producing and then he started to, the reasoning behind that isn't even relevant to the fact that he was and is in fact "turning things around".

Now if you want to discuss what kind of player comes to camp out of shape after winning the cup and question his integrity and all that I'm all for it, but I must say Chara and the whole Bruins cast did the same thing and they sure seem like winners from where I'm sitting. It's too easy to criticize Kaberle when he's the odd man out and was on a much worse team than Boston. It was even more obvious how bad he was because he didn't have a good team to get him out of that slump. Yet he still managed to get in shape like those Bruins players and start producing. Do I think a guy who just signed a contract should show up to camp in shape? I think any player under contract for millions of dollars should show up in shape, but you make it sounds like Kabs is the only guy to ever do this. A lot of players do not just Kabs. I don't like it either but he isn't known for doing this, he won the cup and partied, at least he isn't the type of player consistently known for doing it.
Great post

That's kind of the point... these guys arent machines, they are human. A championship, and leaving the only town he ever played in, combined with a really bad divorce & subsequently getting shopped out of town, ending 2 years of speculation...

There was a lot of reasons for Kabs to take some time for himself. If anything, Rutherford is an idiot for not having thought things through before doing the deal. I think this deal will go down asa a clear win for Gauthier in the long term... Kaberle is already proving to be a much better player & defenceman than he was given credit for. 4.25 mill is not an exhorbitant amount of money... He's going to be a decent addition here, and is good friends with Placky off the ice. Furthermore, he's close to his kids again (which was a big deal as to why he DIDNT want to leave T-dot). He has a better chance of finding his game than not IMO.

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01-17-2012, 02:27 PM
  #67
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To be honest, I was skeptical when they signed Cole. I thought the 4.5M were not worth the 35-40 pts he could get. But who knew he would be on pace for the best season of his carrer at 33 years of age. In fact, he's a beast out there. He looks 23, not 33.

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01-17-2012, 03:52 PM
  #68
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Cole is being paid an identical amount to what Kovalev was paid here.

Cole has 33 points in 45 games with Montreal for .73 points a game.

Kovalev had 295 points in 347 games with Montreal for .85 points a game.

You could make an argument for Cole's 'intangibles' but I think Kovalev was the best FA signing in the last 10 years, laziness notwithstanding.

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01-17-2012, 03:58 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Alexei Yashvalev View Post
Cole is being paid an identical amount to what Kovalev was paid here.

Cole has 33 points in 45 games with Montreal for .73 points a game.

Kovalev had 295 points in 347 games with Montreal for .85 points a game.

You could make an argument for Cole's 'intangibles' but I think Kovalev was the best FA signing in the last 10 years, laziness notwithstanding.
shhh... don't wake up the bear....

it's been a bunk season so far, Cole has been one of the few "bright" spots.

I think, at the time of his signing, people expected pretty much what he's been giving us as the "high end" of realistic expectations... on pace for 30g/60pts.

he's given us that. it's a positive, and in light of recent blunders on the UFA market, it stands out even better.


like Kovalev though, if Cole comes back next year, or in year three, and throws up a sub-20g, ~40pt season (which he's done a few times in his career), then the love affair will disappear rather quickly.

we can't accurately predict the future, so in the meantime it's nice to have a positive to focus on, and believe that he'll keep this up for the next 3 yrs!

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01-17-2012, 05:06 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Alexei Yashvalev View Post
Cole is being paid an identical amount to what Kovalev was paid here.

Cole has 33 points in 45 games with Montreal for .73 points a game.

Kovalev had 295 points in 347 games with Montreal for .85 points a game.

You could make an argument for Cole's 'intangibles' but I think Kovalev was the best FA signing in the last 10 years, laziness notwithstanding.
Well Kovalev wasn't really a ''pure'' FA signing as he was traded here first.

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01-17-2012, 05:07 PM
  #71
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Kovyyyyyyyyyy!

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01-17-2012, 05:10 PM
  #72
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If Cole ends up with 30 goals and 60 pts+, we'll be expecting the same each year. And that would be wrong. When he'll score 20 with 35-40 pts, he'll be crucified.

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01-17-2012, 05:15 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Alexei Yashvalev View Post
Cole is being paid an identical amount to what Kovalev was paid here.

Cole has 33 points in 45 games with Montreal for .73 points a game.

Kovalev had 295 points in 347 games with Montreal for .85 points a game.

You could make an argument for Cole's 'intangibles' but I think Kovalev was the best FA signing in the last 10 years, laziness notwithstanding.
Cap inflation since those contracts has been massive. Kovalev's 4.5 when it was signed is equivalent to 7.4 million in cap when Cole signed.

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01-18-2012, 12:01 AM
  #74
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Bro the Pens built a team with a core including Crosby ,Malkin , etc....
when you get to that stage you pick up the Kunitz`s of the world to fill in the gaps

you are way of base in your assesment here . Cole was never going to single handedly carry us or compensate for the underachievers bu the bottom line is this

this team is not able to compete with the best in the East

Markov is finished , our D is weak , Gomez, Cammy , Pleks are are what they are

overated and overpaid and if you expected this team to overachieve thats foolish

Sorry bro if you expected Cole , DD and others to seriously make this team better
it wasnt going to happen .

we cant pin our hopes on a fluke playoff run 2 years ago or Cammie`s heroics lats year in round 1 ..We have serious flaws and they were never fixed .

we have no front line talent ..and you can`t compete without it

So adding a Cole to this team , not Pittsburgh , Detroit , Chicago etc ... wont help
and its showing .
WTF does Markov, weak D, Cammy, Gomez and Plek has to do with Cole's evaluation?

So you remove Cole and DD and you gonna tell me this team would have performed at the same level???

What the hell does that "fluke" playoff run have to do with the evaluation of Cole's signing??? You are just lumping everything randomly together in the evaluation of Cole. Just crazy.

Adding Cole won't help? Just because they don't make the playoffs this year doesn't mean Cole has been useless. Remove Cole and this team would have sucked even more.

Answer my question: Adding Crosby in 05-06 didn't propel the Pens to the playoff that year. Does that mean Crosby wasn't a good signing? By your logic, the answer would be: "No, it wasn't a good signing."

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01-18-2012, 12:14 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Alexei Yashvalev View Post
Cole is being paid an identical amount to what Kovalev was paid here.

Cole has 33 points in 45 games with Montreal for .73 points a game.

Kovalev had 295 points in 347 games with Montreal for .85 points a game.

You could make an argument for Cole's 'intangibles' but I think Kovalev was the best FA signing in the last 10 years, laziness notwithstanding.
The cap was about 20 million $ lower when Kovalev was signed.

People forget this little fact very quickly when comparing contracts... You can sign 4 Coles and 4 Darches with that slight difference

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