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Buy or Sell @ the Deadline: What would you do

View Poll Results: Two part question: Buy or Sell @ the Deadline? Which moves would you make?
We should be SELLERS @ the deadline. 10 11.49%
We should be BUYERS @ the deadline. 37 42.53%
I would trade Jagr @ the deadline for the right return. 7 8.05%
I would trade Briere @ the deadline for the right return. 11 12.64%
I would trade picks for Gleason @ the deadline. 33 37.93%
I would trade JVR+ for Suter @ the deadline. 20 22.99%
I would trade mid round picks for Suter's rights in the offseason 26 29.89%
I would trade picks for Beauchemin @ the deadline. 26 29.89%
I would trade JVR for Luke Schenn @ the deadline. 6 6.90%
I would stand pat @ the deadline. 12 13.79%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 87. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-15-2012, 07:18 PM
  #51
RoDu
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Originally Posted by RIPRichardsCarter View Post
u mad?


All you have to do is make the playoffs, then anything can happen. One would think 2010 would still be in most memories around here in one form or another

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01-15-2012, 07:44 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by ilovetheflyers8 View Post
I would go for Gleason or Beauchemin for picks and a prospect or two if necessary.
Just to clarify, the fans that want Gleason or Beauchemin view them as replacements for Carle and hope we sign them rather than just rentals, correct?

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01-15-2012, 09:09 PM
  #53
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with the amount of young players on this team some playoff experience should be a good thing..

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01-15-2012, 09:24 PM
  #54
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I don't think the Flyers should do anything but maybe pick up a depth defenseman or two. Unless Bryzgalov magically turns it around in the post season, then I think that more than anything, they need to stand pat and re-assess everything in the off season and go from there. It doesn't make any sense to make a major move during the regular season if the Flyers are in a one and done position.

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01-15-2012, 10:50 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by RoDu View Post
All you have to do is make the playoffs, then anything can happen. One would think 2010 would still be in most memories around here in one form or another
*Sigh*.

I would think people referencing 2010 would be old enough to remember that we were the cup favorites going into the season. Did we struggle early? You bet we did. But we still had veteran talent from top to bottom of that lineup. We had Pronger and Timonen in their primes, Briere, Richards, Carter in their primes, Gagne in his prime, Giroux coming into his own, etc.

That was a stacked team that experts expected to take the cup.

Just because they struggled early, that didn't suddenly change anything... expectations were still the same (or at least they were for me) and they should've been for you too.

Flash forward to this year. Where were the expectations? Most people expected us to be a fringe playoff team, to be out in the 1st / 2nd round, etc. Nothing has changed. Some rookies played above their heads for the first half, we stayed relatively healthy till the Pronger concussion, and as a result, we're in 4th. But things have changed now. Some of the rookies and young players who got off to hot starts have cooled off. We are without our captain and our best defenseman. Our one and only true power forward (who gave Boston fits and is exactly the kind of player you need against the Rangers and the Bs) is hurt and won't be getting better till the offseason.

I just think the 2010 comparison is night and day to 2011-2012. We cannot / will not win a championship with Chris Pronger on the shelf, 5 rookies in the starting lineup, etc. When's the last time a team won the Cup with their captain / their #1 defenseman out injured for the entire playoffs?

Someone enlighten me...

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01-15-2012, 10:54 PM
  #56
JohnnyOnTheSpot
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Why the ******* would we be sellers at the deadline? You never SELL when you're in the hunt. No "sound logic" will change my mind, the Flyers have the talent to do damage and win it all. All it takes is getting hot at the right time. Sellers? This might be the most ridiculous proposition I've heard since I've been patrolling HFBoards.

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01-15-2012, 10:55 PM
  #57
WeekendAtBernies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I don't think the Flyers should do anything but maybe pick up a depth defenseman or two. Unless Bryzgalov magically turns it around in the post season, then I think that more than anything, they need to stand pat and re-assess everything in the off season and go from there. It doesn't make any sense to make a major move during the regular season if the Flyers are in a one and done position.
If we are in a one and done position (and I think we are), why not make some moves to re-tool? There are teams that are in contention right now who would be willing to give up something nice for Briere (if he were willing to waive his NMC). And maybe he would be OK with it as long as he stays on the East Coast. Buffalo, Washington, NYR (although they'd need to pay double ), etc.

And perhaps Jagr would be willing to move too. You don't know until you ask. I don't know what his motives are... whether he just wants to play where he is wanted and where he enjoys it, or whether he would like one last cup. If the cup is his primary motive, since he has no ties to Philly, I would think he might be willing to go somewhere. I'm not talking about shipping Jagr out behind his back or something... you'd obviously discuss it with him first and level w/ him. He's a legend.

I'm not talking about sneaky back-handed moves here like we did w/ Richie and Carter... I'm talking about going to Briere and Jagr ahead of time and sitting down and talking to them and seeing if they'd indeed be willing to move.

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01-15-2012, 10:56 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by JohnnyOnTheSpot View Post
Why the ******* would we be sellers at the deadline? You never SELL when you're in the hunt. No "sound logic" will change my mind, the Flyers have the talent to do damage and win it all. All it takes is getting hot at the right time. Sellers? This might be the most ridiculous proposition I've heard since I've been patrolling HFBoards.
Quick... name the last team to win the Stanley Cup w/ their captain and best defenseman on the shelf for the entire playoffs.... GO.

(I look forward to your answer)

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01-15-2012, 11:01 PM
  #59
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I wonder if Jagr would even report to another team if he were traded.
I was thinking the same thing. Unless he's 100% healthy and wants to move to another team he probably won't be traded because he won't want to play there or has any trade value. Him staying with the Flyers is also the only way he might, if he wants to, come back to the NHL next season. He signed with Philly for a reason so I doubt he will be traded (it could discourage players signing here as FA or long term deals like Carter).

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01-15-2012, 11:02 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
Quick... name the last team to win the Stanley Cup w/ their captain and best defenseman on the shelf for the entire playoffs.... GO.

(I look forward to your answer)
Quick, tell me how many teams followed the exact same path to a Cup. Your point is just...pointless, because you completely exclude the possibility of, oh, I don't know, overcoming adversity. Don't be such a quitter dude. PS I think Kimmo's are best D-man, so your point doesn't apply to me, regardless.

I think your logic is completely flawed, pessimistic, and naively narrow. I'm going to bed in anger.

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01-15-2012, 11:17 PM
  #61
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We went to the Stanley Cup Finals with MFL as a 7th seed after beating the 8th seed in the ECF, coming back from 3-0, and that shootout vs. NYR. Once your in the playoffs, it's anyone's game, and everyone has a shot. Anyone who says say we have zero chance of winning it this year is delusional.

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01-15-2012, 11:26 PM
  #62
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two words ...

francois beauchemin

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01-16-2012, 01:23 AM
  #63
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I have to admit that Homer's "anything can happen" line is sketchy at best. It is for those that gamble at a casino when the house has better odds.

Further, it also defies being a buyer every year at the deadline. If you are already likely good enough to make the playoffs and "anything can happen", an extra good player is not going to change your chances substantially. Your primary goal should be to preserve assets enough to make the playoffs as well in following years. You are betting any average team could get "hot" at the exact right time.

Having said that and even though I voted to stand pat, there would be value in increasing the probability of a few more rounds this year in order to give experience to all the rookies.

If we get Suter at the deadline and Bryz turns it around (or Pronger magically returns for the playoffs) this team has a realistic chance IMO. Other than that it really doesn't.

Homer is a gambler however.

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01-16-2012, 02:22 AM
  #64
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I disagree Briere is only payed 6.5 for one more year, then it's 3 million followed by 2 million though his cap hit is 6.5. He was a all-star last year, and is a proven playoff performer. If there's a team with cap space that's looking to make some noise the playoffs he could be someone they're interested in adding. IMO The biggest question is would he wave his NMC to go anywhere.
Briere has enough value and there are teams out there that can afford his cap hit.

But that's not the point. He brings a lot of intangibles to the locker room. Didn't Couturier move in with him this summer as did Giroux before him? Danny B. is definitely a factor for this team developing young players so well lately...

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01-16-2012, 07:01 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Jray42 View Post
We went to the Stanley Cup Finals with MFL as a 7th seed after beating the 8th seed in the ECF, coming back from 3-0, and that shootout vs. NYR. Once your in the playoffs, it's anyone's game, and everyone has a shot. Anyone who says say we have zero chance of winning it this year is delusional.
We had Pronger. Even with Pronger Flyers got lucky big time and advanced.
We did not have 5 rookies. As good as they are, they are still rookies


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01-16-2012, 07:23 AM
  #66
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Voted "stand pat." I like our team just fine for now. Long term thinking, I feel that keeping this group and then going after say Suter in the off season is the way to go. We finally have a decent amount of draft picks so lets not just deal them away for an extra win or two this year. We are not going to win a cup this year anyway IMO with the Bruins and Canucks being so strong again so we might as well keep this group, put a decent showing on the ice and be studs next year.

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01-16-2012, 08:04 AM
  #67
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Someone should make a flyers fan meme...lose 2 of last 5; sell all veterans

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01-16-2012, 08:28 AM
  #68
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*Sigh*.

I would think people referencing 2010 would be old enough to remember that we were the cup favorites going into the season. Did we struggle early? You bet we did. But we still had veteran talent from top to bottom of that lineup. We had Pronger and Timonen in their primes, Briere, Richards, Carter in their primes, Gagne in his prime, Giroux coming into his own, etc.

That was a stacked team that experts expected to take the cup.

Just because they struggled early, that didn't suddenly change anything... expectations were still the same (or at least they were for me) and they should've been for you too.

Flash forward to this year. Where were the expectations? Most people expected us to be a fringe playoff team, to be out in the 1st / 2nd round, etc. Nothing has changed. Some rookies played above their heads for the first half, we stayed relatively healthy till the Pronger concussion, and as a result, we're in 4th. But things have changed now. Some of the rookies and young players who got off to hot starts have cooled off. We are without our captain and our best defenseman. Our one and only true power forward (who gave Boston fits and is exactly the kind of player you need against the Rangers and the Bs) is hurt and won't be getting better till the offseason.

I just think the 2010 comparison is night and day to 2011-2012. We cannot / will not win a championship with Chris Pronger on the shelf, 5 rookies in the starting lineup, etc. When's the last time a team won the Cup with their captain / their #1 defenseman out injured for the entire playoffs?

Someone enlighten me...
Just go stand in the shame corner already, for suggesting us tanking earlier in the thread.

(I kid)

I don't think we will win the cup this year, and, unless we can make a trade for a true #1 dman somehow, I don't want us to trade one of our roster players or our #1 pick. Getting a dman would be beneficial though. If we could swing a deal for someone like Gleason or Beauchemin without giving up too much I'd very much like that. We have a very young team where not only the rookies, but also guys like Simmonds and Voracek pretty much lacks playoff experience. Most teams have a go or two at it first before they are ready to make the final push.

Except for defense, we're kind of lacking that fourth line center that is really good at faceoffs and can play on the pk. There aren't that many out there that would fit the pay bill though. I found Jeff Halpern, who might not want to play for anyone other than Washington at this point in his career, not sure there. He's a great faceoff man and can still play despite getting up there in age. Other than that, maybe Jay McClement from Colorado. He's usually one or two % above 50 in faceoffs at least and is a solid pker. He would perhaps cost a little bit too much for us however. As it stands now, neither the Capitals nor the Avalanches would be sellers at the deadline, and I'm not so sure I'd like to give up picks/prospects to land one of these guys anyway. As UFA's in the summer we maybe should look at them though.

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01-16-2012, 09:03 AM
  #69
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Someone should make a flyers fan meme...lose 2 of last 5; sell all veterans

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01-16-2012, 09:40 AM
  #70
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No, in 2010 we went into the season as the favorites to win the cup. We had some early problems, but we were greatly under-performing. The team had outstanding potential and everyone could see that. We had an impressive roster of players.

This season is the polar opposite. We went into the season w/ low expectations. We weren't supposed to do anything. Everyone played above their heads for the first 30 or so games and everyone's expectations went up. Now we're playing like the team we really are... sloppy, inconsistent, etc. We're also missing our best defensive player and probably the key to our team and he's done for the year. Our goaltending is terrible, Boston and NYR look unbeatable, etc.

But you're right... this season is oh so eerily similar to 2010.... Cup finals here we come!!!
Glad you've thrown in the towel. Did you happen to catch any of this year's NFL playoffs, or the NHL playoffs for the last, oh, forever? Lucky the Giants didn't pack it in at midseason when they were struggling, after all the Packers were undefeated at the time...

1. The Flyers can't base their plans on the assumption the Rangers and Bruins are unbeatable. They are beatable, and it may be someone else who does it for us. Remember how the Caps have been favourites the last couple playoffs, yet been knocked out early by Montreal, who the Flyers then destroyed?

On top of that, I am not prepared to concede in January to either of those teams.

The Flyers have played the Rangers evenly, but got beat by a couple fluke goals that cost them. A couple of those games could have gone either way.

Lundqvist or Thomas or Chara gets hurt and who knows? Why would you tank in January when the conference is still pretty wide open? The key is finishing high enough to make sure we don't have to play Boston in the first round, or even second.

We're a couple wins behind the Rangers, and get to face them three more times. Win the Atlantic first, then see what happens.

2. You are recommending trading a player that will not waive his NTC, Briere, and another who we can't trade because we want him to come back next year, Jagr. It's just a ludicrous plan because it SO isn't happening.

3. Maybe you had low expectations coming in, many of us didn't. We knew there would be a learning curve because we had so many young players, but we also knew the talent and heart was there.

Guys like Voracek, Couturier, Read, Simmonds, etc. are playing fantastic and now that Schenn, Zolnierczyk, Rinaldo, Gustafsson and Bourdon have stepped up too, the team is very well placed.

Whether we can win the Cup this year is never certain, but I want all these kids to get as much experience in the playoffs as they can, it will do them good down the line to see how vets prepare for the playoffs.


That said, I think all the Flyers need to do is add a Dman like Gleason or Beauchemin etc. without giving up the farm. Trade a couple of the Phantoms and 2nd rounder at most to add a key player to solidify the top 5, then see what happens.

I really think Bryzgalov is going to come around, and Bob is a great backup - he's doing what a backup should - win games against the easy teams.

We just need another 6-0 run from Bryz (and he's done it a couple times already) and away we go.....

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01-16-2012, 09:55 AM
  #71
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Window of SC was closed as soon as Pronger got hit in the eye.

We can all hope that we will get Gleason or Beauchemin for peanuts. Fact is at least 18 teams will be looking to get better on D. Even if we get one of them how the hell will any of them replace playoff production in playoffs.

and yes there is a chance that Crosby will miss this year with concussion, Chara may break his leg in the end of March and both Lundqvist or Thomas will have nagging groin injuries.

1st thing 1st, I hope to see Bryzgalov play well this year.

Does not mean I want to tank or I do not like this team or gave up. Just want to see quick rebuild.

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01-16-2012, 10:25 AM
  #72
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Window of SC was closed as soon as Pronger got hit in the eye.
Was the SC window closed before Pronger got here too?

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Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
We can all hope that we will get Gleason or Beauchemin for peanuts. Fact is at least 18 teams will be looking to get better on D. Even if we get one of them how the hell will any of them replace playoff production in playoffs.
What playoff production are they replacing? We're talking about adding an experienced defenseman for depth, as most teams try to do at the trade deadline because, ya know, the playoffs are a possible 2 month long battle of attrition. Selling assets when you're where the Flyers are now sends a really bad message to the players and the fanbase. It's a losers mentality.

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and yes there is a chance that Crosby will miss this year with concussion, Chara may break his leg in the end of March and both Lundqvist or Thomas will have nagging groin injuries.
There's also a chance that none of that happens and the Flyers still beat whoever they play in the postseason and win the Cup.

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1st thing 1st, I hope to see Bryzgalov play well this year.
Somethings we can agree on, for sure.

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Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
Does not mean I want to tank or I do not like this team or gave up. Just want to see quick rebuild.
Didn't we just do a quick rebuild last offseason?

Look, teams sitting where the Flyers currently are in the standings don't sell. If they believe a "quick rebuild" is in order, then they will do it in the offseason. Ya know, after they get to assess what this already rebuilt team does in the playoffs. Kinda like last year, right? They don't do it in the middle of a playoff run.

People need to stop with this Islanders/Oilers perpetual rebuild thought process of "collect draft picks by selling vets because we can't win" stuff.

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01-16-2012, 10:32 AM
  #73
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Briere has enough value and there are teams out there that can afford his cap hit.

But that's not the point. He brings a lot of intangibles to the locker room. Didn't Couturier move in with him this summer as did Giroux before him? Danny B. is definitely a factor for this team developing young players so well lately...
Couturier does live with Briere I said that in my 2nd post, and that it's very unlikely he's traded. I'm okay with trading Briere though. Who knows if Briere is the reason they developed? Maybe they just train hard, are good players, and happen to live with Briere. I think we could get a more needed player with that salary. We have offense, Briere hasn't been a big part of it, and his backchecking is meh. I do see where you're coming from though.

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01-16-2012, 10:33 AM
  #74
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I see some logic in Sandlansd's comments! "Tank" might have been the wrong words but if trading our players especially the older one can get the Flyers the young top end Blueliner(s) or blueline prospect, why not? Take a step back to move 3 steps ahead!

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01-16-2012, 10:35 AM
  #75
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People need to stop with this Islanders/Oilers perpetual rebuild thought process of "collect draft picks by selling vets because we can't win" stuff.
and who is comparing Flyers to Islanders/Oilers?
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Originally Posted by Shadow Flyer View Post
What playoff production are they replacing? We're talking about adding an experienced defenseman for depth, as most teams try to do at the trade deadline because, ya know, the playoffs are a possible 2 month long battle of attrition. Selling assets when you're where the Flyers are now sends a really bad message to the players and the fanbase. It's a losers mentality.
Prongers, I guess you were not listening. By the way if we sell some vets does not mean we tank. I think of it as putting our self in better position for next off season. Fans will love this team no matter what. What message do we send to players? We are rebuilding message.

I bet 9 out of 10 Flyers fans would not mind moving Briere not 10 out of 10 will mentions his kids and his NTC. Why do you think that is?


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