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Buy or Sell @ the Deadline: What would you do

View Poll Results: Two part question: Buy or Sell @ the Deadline? Which moves would you make?
We should be SELLERS @ the deadline. 10 11.49%
We should be BUYERS @ the deadline. 37 42.53%
I would trade Jagr @ the deadline for the right return. 7 8.05%
I would trade Briere @ the deadline for the right return. 11 12.64%
I would trade picks for Gleason @ the deadline. 33 37.93%
I would trade JVR+ for Suter @ the deadline. 20 22.99%
I would trade mid round picks for Suter's rights in the offseason 26 29.89%
I would trade picks for Beauchemin @ the deadline. 26 29.89%
I would trade JVR for Luke Schenn @ the deadline. 6 6.90%
I would stand pat @ the deadline. 12 13.79%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 87. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-16-2012, 11:37 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli View Post
I see some logic in Sandlansd's comments! "Tank" might have been the wrong words but if trading our players especially the older one can get the Flyers the young top end Blueliner(s) or blueline prospect, why not? Take a step back to move 3 steps ahead!
And who is giving us this "young top end blueliner" that you speak of?

I'm sure teams are just lining up to give us their best young defensemen for Briere and Jagr. Who are these young top end blueliners that teams are willing to trade for vets?

People need to think. Any team that would be trading for Briere or Jagr aren't giving up high end assets. We're talking low 1st round picks at best. We're not talking top-10 picks or young high end blueliners.

This team isn't selling at the deadline unless they go into an unreal tailspin. Let it go.

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01-16-2012, 11:39 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
and who is comparing Flyers to Islanders/Oilers?
What exactly are you asking the Flyers to do? Are you not asking them to "sell" at the deadline as if they are rebuilding? And for what? A low first round pick? What do you expect to bring back in trade for these players?

Dear lord, Ottawa of all teams is going to be a buyer at the deadline, and you think the Flyers are going to sell? Seriously?

It's not gonna happen.

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01-16-2012, 11:42 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
Prongers, I guess you were not listening. By the way if we sell some vets does not mean we tank. I think of it as putting our self in better position for next off season.
What you posted that I quoted never mentioned replacing Prongers' production. We're obviously not replacing that production. We'll be adding a veteran defenseman or two for depth. Book it.

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I bet 9 out of 10 Flyers fans would not mind moving Briere not 10 out of 10 will mentions his kids and his NTC. Why do you think that is?
Because the overvaluing of future assets on HF Boards knows no bounds?

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01-16-2012, 11:43 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Shadow Flyer View Post
What exactly are you asking the Flyers to do? Are you not asking them to "sell" at the deadline as if they are rebuilding? And for what? A low first round pick? What do you expect to bring back in trade for these players?
Before start whining or throwing NYI or Edmonton comparisons, trying to hit people with your ****ing purse read 3 pages of the thread not half of the page. Maybe it will come to you?

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01-16-2012, 11:45 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
Name of the thread.

If Pronger was healthy, we would not be having this conversation. Bruins mapped the floor with us last year, they did it this year too. If Pens get healthy they will do it too. I am not sure about NYR. Seems like they have our number this year too but I think we can take them. So why not fantasize about mini rebuild?


By trading Richards, Carter, getting picks for Versteeg, and having 6 rookies in the lineup, I'd say they've already accomplished that.

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01-16-2012, 11:46 AM
  #81
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I don't see why a team currently sitting in 4th in the conference and 4 points behind the division lead for home ice advantage in the playoffs in January would be looking to be sellers. I see a lot of people just really really want that stud d-prospect, I necessarily don't want that. I want a d-man like Suter and Weber(would be willing to pay the pretty penny it would cost too, but that's just me). When drafting these kids there is never a guarantee if they will become studs and that will most likely happen 3 or 4 years after they are drafted. This team has the means to win now if we can replace Pronger, which I think Homer will do his best to do.

Management has to see this team as a contender because that's how they have looked at this team for years upon years now. They think we can not only get into the big dance but make a serious run for it. I still think once you get into the playoffs, really anything can happen.

I also heard somewhere(I think LeBrun) who said the Flyers wouldn't trade for Suter unless he has agreed to a contract extension before the trade is finalized. So I would be willing to give a good amount for a freshly signed Suter.


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01-16-2012, 11:47 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
[/b]

By trading Richards, Carter, getting picks for Versteeg, and having 6 rookies in the lineup, I'd say they've already accomplished that.
I would not mind pushing that envelope just a little further and I like Briere and especialy TImonen.

Draft in 2012, see what new CBA will bring, get some amnesties particularly on Prongers contract.

Something we could of done in 2007. Give our team extra year to build form the draft. Not trading our picks for vets and then trading our 26 year old core players for picks and young players.


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01-16-2012, 11:48 AM
  #83
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The Flyers had the worst team in franchise history in 2006-07, and they were still buying. They're not selling.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner here Johnny. No matter what you may WANT the flyers to do, we aren't the Pens or TBL and we WON'T tank just to get a lottery pick in a great draft. If the 08 and 10 playoffs didn't teach you anything then there is nothing left to talk about. In 08 we had just come off our worst season ever, rebuilt the team in 1 year, were worried about the team "gel'ing", and made it all the way to the ECF where we lost our top 2 dmen and had to have Hatcher and Randy freaking Jones as our top pairing and we STILL gave the Pens a run for their money.

Then in 2010 we didn't make it into the playoffs until the last game of the season where we had to go to a shootout to win the game, were down 3-0 in the Boston series and 3-0 in game 7 but we STILL came within one coaching blunder from actually (most likely) winning the cup with questionable goaltending.

The Flyers will not be sellers, we NEVER are (with the only exception being in 07 but even then ONLY after we made numerous attempts to better the team but had them fail). We will not be the best team heading into the playoffs but that doesn't matter that much. ANY team that makes the playoffs can win the cup and we'll take our chances. We'll most likely add a minor piece or two and that's it.

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01-16-2012, 11:54 AM
  #84
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Before start whining or throwing NYI or Edmonton comparisons, trying to hit people with your ****ing purse read 3 pages of the thread not half of the page. Maybe it will come to you?
Nice insult. What are you, 10?

I've read every page, and the thought of selling is as ridiculous now as it was on page one.

Look, I get the premise. I understand the "logic" of it all. It's just not something that winning organizations do.

Last year as the season was winding down, I found a thread almost exactly like this one on the Bruins board. It was the usual "this team can't win" and "this team is missing elite talent" and "this teams lack heart" and "we don't have the right coach" and blah blah blah.

So what did the Bruins do? They damn sure didn't sell at the deadline. They did what all respectable franchises do. The acquired players to make them better.

Most of the people who posted in that thread likely don't remember it now, as they're too busy still basking in the glow of their SC victory and having one of the more dominant teams on the ice today. Just sayin'

But sure, let's sell. I mean, we can't win anyway, right?

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01-16-2012, 12:04 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Shadow Flyer View Post
And who is giving us this "young top end blueliner" that you speak of?

I'm sure teams are just lining up to give us their best young defensemen for Briere and Jagr. Who are these young top end blueliners that teams are willing to trade for vets?

People need to think. Any team that would be trading for Briere or Jagr aren't giving up high end assets. We're talking low 1st round picks at best. We're not talking top-10 picks or young high end blueliners.

This team isn't selling at the deadline unless they go into an unreal tailspin. Let it go.
But include JVR, Vorack, Matt C, Hartnell, Read and other to that list some teams may talk

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01-16-2012, 12:04 PM
  #86
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Nice insult. What are you, 10?
Nice come back..


By the way do not compare Flyers to Bruins. Bruins did not trade their core, they built from the draft, they got Chara when he was 30-31 did not overpay, they have decent goalie. I doubt they would be making moves if they had 5 talented rookies, Chara on IR and lost in the woods goalie.

Our window of opportunity closed as soon as Pronger was done. Just the way it is.


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01-16-2012, 12:09 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli View Post
But include JVR, Vorack, Matt C, Hartnell, Read and other to that list some teams may talk
Sure, but that only makes sense if the Flyers are getting a real stud. And again, that's probably best left for the offseason after they've assessed what this team does in the playoffs, and who may be available on the market.

I'm not talking about sending enormous assets out the door for Suter or Weber at the deadline. This team shouldn't do that. But this team shouldn't be selling vets like Briere or Jagr either. The return would never be worth their current value to the team.

There's a space in between those two extremes where veteran players are acquired for reasonable prices. The Flyers shouldn't be selling the farm for players at they deadline, but they shouldn't be selling quality veterans either.

They will add some veteran presence on the blueline and let this team fight in the playoffs and the youngsters will gain valuable experience from it all. That's what winning organizations do.

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01-16-2012, 12:10 PM
  #88
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I agree the Flyers would never sell and that's why its been 36 years since they have won a cup! Is it time to sound the alarm? Not yet but if a good deal for a top pairing defencemen does not come, I'd gamble on the future because this is not a cup winning team! People on this board can continue with the delusion but reality is reality! Its been 36 years!

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01-16-2012, 12:12 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
By the way do not compare Flyers to Bruins. Bruins did not trade their core, they built from the draft, they got Chara when he was 30-31, they have decent goalie. I doubt they would be making moves if they had 5 talented rookies and Chara on IR and lost in the woods goalie.
Missed the point, but then again, I figured you would.

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Our window of opportunity closed as soon as Pronger was done. Just the way it is.
Since you didn't answer it last time (in fact, you've pretty much avoided all of my questions), was our window of opportunity closed before Pronger got here too?

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01-16-2012, 12:14 PM
  #90
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Nice come back..
What did you expect me to do, play kindergarten with you by hurling back insults?

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01-16-2012, 12:17 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Shadow Flyer View Post
Since you didn't answer it last time (in fact, you've pretty much avoided all of my questions), was our window of opportunity closed before Pronger got here too?
Ignoring? I am not ignoring anything. Silly ****ing question.

Judging how Pens were whopping our ***** in every playoff year. Nope. No chance.
This is why we got Pronger. Remember? If you do not remember watch Prongers introduction to the Flyers. TP's questions of what Chris is going to do about Malkin and Crosby. Was pretty clear why we got him. Not a single d-men on our team was able to handle both players on regular basis.

I suggest you research Pens injuries during their games against Philadelphia Flyers.



If a month from now Bryzgalov does not improve I would sell.

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What did you expect me to do, play kindergarten with you by hurling back insults?
I already told you. I expected you to read the the thread. Not asking me "Well, what do you propse we do".

See what GKJ did. I may not agree with him and he may have a point.. But at least he quoted the right post.


Last edited by Kaktus*: 01-16-2012 at 12:24 PM.
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01-16-2012, 12:21 PM
  #92
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Ignoring? I am not ignoring anything. Silly ****ing question.

Judging how Pens were whopping our ***** in every playoff year. Nope. No chance.

This is why we got Pronger. Remember? If you do not remember watch Prongers introduction to the Flyers. TP's questions of what Chris is going to do about Malkin and Crosby. Was pretty clear why we got him. Not a single d-men on our team was able to handle both players on regular basis.
Still didn't answer my question.

You explained why we got Pronger, and that's now what I asked. Thanks for the history lesson though, because I was living under a rock when we acquired Pronger.

Are you actually implying that there would never be a window of contention without Chris Pronger? And now that he's gone, what, the window is closed till when? We get a first round pick for Briere?

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01-16-2012, 12:25 PM
  #93
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Still didn't answer my question.
Answer was bolded for you in my previous post. Made it really easy now.

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01-16-2012, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Shadow Flyer View Post
would never be a window of contention without Chris Pronger?
Never? I never said never.
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And now that he's gone, what, the window is closed till when?
Until we find real replacement and goaltending. Yes. We won't go far and will be stopped in playoffs and with 5 rookie sin the lineup it may get real ugly.
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We get a first round pick for Briere?
I do not know. Gomez was traded why not Briere?

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01-16-2012, 12:30 PM
  #95
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Answer was bolded for you in my previous post. Made it really easy now.
Newsflash: Except for 2006-07, the "window" of opportunity has been open since 94-95.

Pronger was acquired to help put us over the top, no doubt about it. But the window was open before he got here, and remains open today. It will continue to be that way for some time.

This team will not be selling vets like Briere and Jagr at the deadline, nor should they.

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01-16-2012, 12:33 PM
  #96
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Never? I never said never.
Who knows? All you said was that, without Pronger, the window was closed. Defeatist attitude.
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Until we find real replacement and goaltending. Yes. We won't go far and will be stopped in playoffs and with 5 rookie sin the lineup it may get real ugly.
So the Flyers go get a goalie like everyone said they should and, now after 45 games, we need a real goalie? And since we have 5 rookies in the lineup we should what, trade for more young players or picks instead of insulating them with vets like Briere?
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I do not know. Gomez was traded why not Briere?
Because Briere is good?

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01-16-2012, 12:46 PM
  #97
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Who knows? All you said was that, without Pronger, the window was closed. Defeatist attitude.

So the Flyers go get a goalie like everyone said they should and, now after 45 games, we need a real goalie? And since we have 5 rookies in the lineup we should what, trade for more young players or picks instead of insulating them with vets like Briere?

Because Briere is good?
I bet you can find all the answers in the thread you did not read but decided to participate. Let me know if you have somehting really specific to ask.

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01-16-2012, 12:50 PM
  #98
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I bet you can find all the answers in the thread you did not read.
Whatever. I read everything you and everyone else posted. I disagree with you, and if you want to believe that's because I didn't read the thread, then so be it.

The window is closed without Pronger, so let's get something for Briere and Jagr because this team has no chance to win a Cup this season. Afterall, we have 5 rookies in the lineup and a goalie who can't stop a beach ball. Best to just collect some draft picks and try again at some arbitrary date in the future.

*shrugs*

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01-16-2012, 12:56 PM
  #99
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just terrible reasoning by anyone who said sell now. and lol at anyone saying this team isn't a cup contender...yeah because cups are won and lost in January. Make a few moves(Beauch or Gleason) if the price is right and who knows, maybe they go on a run. Selling at the deadline is a total losers mentality.

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01-16-2012, 01:10 PM
  #100
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I don't think Holmgren should make any move unless it has the potential to benefit the team beyond this season. In other words, don't move valuable assets for a playoff-push rental. If Gleason, Beauchemin or a defensive / PK / faceoff specialist are targeted, I hope it is with the goal of resigning them beyond this season. For this season, Holmgren should avoid the pressure of the trade-deadline frenzy to overpay for someone who will be gone on July 1.

Holmgren's off-season overhaul is still a work in progress, and there are way too many variables to consider the Flyers to be a reasonable Stanley Cup contender. Talk of anything being possible if the team just gets into the playoffs is empty air: how many Cinderella teams have won the Cup in the last, oh, forever? And let's please avoid comparisons to the NFL and their 4-game playoff structure. A Stanley Cup winner plays 16-28 games, and winning it all is as much a war of attrition as peaking at the right time.

Tank? No. But continue to carefully build the team to compete now and later. Address weaknesses (defense) with strengths (forward depth) without screwing up the cap. Unfortunately, the ongoing uncertainty about Pronger's condition and ability to ever play again complicates acquiring a big-ticket player.

In short, Holmgren's objective should be to make smart, non-panicky hockey moves to build on the acquisition of several young, high-ceiling players before this season started so this team can continue to be competitive this season and beyond.

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