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Buy or Sell @ the Deadline: What would you do

View Poll Results: Two part question: Buy or Sell @ the Deadline? Which moves would you make?
We should be SELLERS @ the deadline. 10 11.49%
We should be BUYERS @ the deadline. 37 42.53%
I would trade Jagr @ the deadline for the right return. 7 8.05%
I would trade Briere @ the deadline for the right return. 11 12.64%
I would trade picks for Gleason @ the deadline. 33 37.93%
I would trade JVR+ for Suter @ the deadline. 20 22.99%
I would trade mid round picks for Suter's rights in the offseason 26 29.89%
I would trade picks for Beauchemin @ the deadline. 26 29.89%
I would trade JVR for Luke Schenn @ the deadline. 6 6.90%
I would stand pat @ the deadline. 12 13.79%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 87. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-16-2012, 12:12 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Shadow Flyer View Post
Whatever. I read everything you and everyone else posted. I disagree with you, and if you want to believe that's because I didn't read the thread, then so be it.
and that's alright.

Of course Holmgren is not going to sell.

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Originally Posted by Shadow Flyer View Post
The window is closed without Pronger, so let's get something for Briere and Jagr because this team has no chance to win a Cup this season. Afterall, we have 5 rookies in the lineup and a goalie who can't stop a beach ball. Best to just collect some draft picks and try again at some arbitrary date in the future.
*shrugs*
Pretty much. Rather pick 5 times in 1st 2 rounds and have plenty of cap space.


Last edited by Kaktus*: 01-16-2012 at 12:21 PM.
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01-16-2012, 12:33 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
and that's alright.

Of course Holmgren is not going to sell.
Fair enough.

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Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
Pretty much. Rather pick 5 times in 1st 2 rounds and have plenty of cap space.
Again, that's a fair stance.

I'd much rather get some experienced depth on the blueline, if it comes at a reasonable price, and see what happens in the playoffs. To me, you get a much better read on your team in the postseason, as opposed to the read you may get in January. That's certainly what happened last season, and after seeing the carnage in the 2nd round, the team made the moves they thought necessary.

To each their own, we just see things differently. In the end I just want this team to win a Cup, and I know you do too.

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01-16-2012, 12:41 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Shadow Flyer View Post
I'd much rather get some experienced depth on the blueline, if it comes at a reasonable price, and see what happens in the playoffs. To me, you get a much better read on your team in the postseason, as opposed to the read you may get in January. That's certainly what happened last season, and after seeing the carnage in the 2nd round, the team made the moves they thought necessary.

To each their own, we just see things differently. In the end I just want this team to win a Cup, and I know you do too.
Dead line reasonable price? Ts ts ts..


If slipping Minnesota Wild or Dallas Stars call us tomorrow about Briere and he says yes, would you make a trade?


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01-16-2012, 12:45 PM
  #104
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The window is closed without Pronger, so let's get something for Briere and Jagr because this team has no chance to win a Cup this season. Afterall, we have 5 rookies in the lineup and a goalie who can't stop a beach ball. Best to just collect some draft picks and try again at some arbitrary date in the future.*shrugs*
It's a great strategy, and I guess the team can also change the marketing motto to "We've packed it in for 2012" and offer a refund to any STH or advertiser who wants their money back for the last half of the season, after all, it's really pointless isn't it?

Thankfully the Flyers don't give up as easily as some of their fickle, panicky fans...

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01-16-2012, 12:53 PM
  #105
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Reading a couple of these posters, are you guys for real or what? Write this team off because Pronger is out. For real? Any team in the NHL that is close to making the playoffs has one goal - make the playoffs. Once in, you have a 1/16 chance of winning the Stanley Cup. If the Flyers stay the course, they either win their division or finish 4th and have a better than 50% chance of winning round one (home ice/ higher seed than their opposition).

Now you are down to 1/8. 8 teams, 1 cup - and people want to sell or tank to get a top draft pick? Because they feel we are not good enough to beat the Bruins? No team with a shot at the playoffs should ever tank. This team is a Stanley Cup contender. We have a shot at the cup we have waited 30+ years for. Anybody who thinks you throw this season away (while Timonen and Briere are playing at the top of their games) is C-R-A-Z-Y.

I can understand "do not buy", "do not sell the future". However, I cannot understand tank.

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01-16-2012, 01:16 PM
  #106
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We'll see where we stand on Sunday.

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01-16-2012, 01:16 PM
  #107
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Dead line reasonable price? Ts ts ts..
Well, reasonable as far as the deadline goes. For instance, Tim Gleason shouldn't be getting a 1st rounder. If that's the going rate, then the Flyers should pass. Second rounder + mid pick or prospect, or something along those lines? Yea, I'd pull the trigger on that. I also think we could re-sign him cheap if management chose to do so.


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If slipping Minnesota Wild or Dallas Stars call us tomorrow about Briere and he says yes, would you make a trade?
Well, it's an irrelevant question, because if those teams are slipping, they aren't trading for Danny Briere.

That was kinda my point. We won't be getting high 1st rounders for Briere or Jagr. Teams going after those players will be true contenders, not fringe playoff teams with the potential to drop into the lottery. That's why I say that guys like Briere and Jagr have more value to our team as veterans in a playoff run, which the young guns can learn alot from, as opposed to some late 1st picks. And, in the case of Briere, if the team deemed it necessary to move him to "quick rebuild", they can do so in the offseason. He's not a UFA.

Again, we just see things differently. For the record, no, I don't think this team is winning a Cup this year. I just don't think it's in our best interests to sell off veterans at the deadline. It sends the wrong message, in my opinion, and as stated earlier, we won't get the same value in return that they provide in veteran leadership on the team now.

Now, would I take a serious look at trying to acquire a young stud Dman in the offseason? Sure, even if we win the Cup, I think that's a good idea. When is that ever a bad idea, really? I just don't think we should sell during the season, considering where we are in the standings. I also don't think we should be giving up substantial assets for a guy like Suter, who we may not be able to re-sign. I don't think the Flyers will win the Cup, but at this time last year, virtually no one saw the Bruins winning either. Hell, they were still getting laughed at for choking up a 3-0 lead to our very own Philadelphia Flyers. No one is laughing at them now.

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01-16-2012, 01:21 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Shadow Flyer View Post
Well, reasonable as far as the deadline goes. For instance, Tim Gleason shouldn't be getting a 1st rounder. If that's the going rate, then the Flyers should pass. Second rounder + mid pick or prospect, or something along those lines? Yea, I'd pull the trigger on that. I also think we could re-sign him cheap if management chose to do so.
16 teams making playoffs at least 4 more making a push for it. You do not think half? Fine, you do not think at least 5 teams can offer that much for Gleason? lol

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Well, it's an irrelevant question, because if those teams are slipping, they aren't trading for Danny Briere.
It's a relevant question in this irrelevant thread. So yes or no?

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Originally Posted by Shadow Flyer View Post
That was kinda my point. We won't be getting high 1st rounders for Briere or Jagr.
I am annoyed now. Why would you say that? Did someone imply that Jagr or Briere will get high 1st rounders? No one said that.. So you do not have a point. Stop making **** up.

Not even reading the rest. Veteran this and veteran that. Makes no freaking sense.

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01-16-2012, 01:28 PM
  #109
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16 teams making playoffs at least 4 more making a push for it. You do not think half? Fine, you do not think at least 5 teams can offer that much for Gleason? lol
Possibly, which is why I said they should pass if the price gets to be a 1st rounder or more. I'm not going to pretend to know what the Canes' asking price is, and really, you shouldn't pretend to know either.

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It's a relevant question in this irrelevant thread. So yes or no?
It's not relevant, because it's not realistic. Neither of those teams would be going after Danny Briere. But if you want to play hypotheticals, then yes, I'd trade him to Minnesota for a 1st rounder. That team is a sinking ship. And no, I wouldn't trade him to Dallas, because I don't think that pick will fall into the value it needs to be for me to want to move him.

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I am annoyed now. Why would you say that? Did someone imply that Jagr or Briere will get high 1st rounders? No one said that.. So you do not have a point. Stop making **** up.
Well, after you get done swearing at me for no apparent reason, perhaps you can tell me why you would be so eager to move them for anything less?

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Not even reading the rest. Makes no freaking sense.
I'm not even arguing with you, just simply stating my opinions, and you are acting like a total dick. Seriously, grow up.

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01-16-2012, 01:39 PM
  #110
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It's not relevant, because it's not realistic. Neither of those teams would be going after Danny Briere. But if you want to play hypotheticals, then yes, I'd trade him to Minnesota for a 1st rounder. That team is a sinking ship. And no, I wouldn't trade him to Dallas, because I don't think that pick will fall into the value it needs to be for me to want to move him.
You do not know that. Minnesota was one the best teams for 30-35 games. Same goes for Dallas.

If you do not mind trading Briere regardless of his value and NMC/NTC you should really re-think your vote. Because you know Briere is getting old, you know he is a bit overpaid, you know that his value is going down finally the most important you know that by the time our youngsters are ready to make real impact we won’t have decent defense and Briere will probably be too old to contribute.

That means you hypothetically agree with me. Even know you are trying to prove me wrong.

Same for everyone here. You know you would not mind moving Briere for reasons I stated. Not because you gave up, tank or whatever other silly reason you came up with.

Briere will be making 4M real money for the next 3 years. He is still decent 20G 50pts man. Teams that are not worried about cap hit should be all over this player.


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01-16-2012, 01:44 PM
  #111
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Just to clarify, the fans that want Gleason or Beauchemin view them as replacements for Carle and hope we sign them rather than just rentals, correct?
I'd be fine with keeping them or just having them as a rental if we can get someone better like Suter in the offseason. If possible to keep Carle and one of Beauchemin or Gleason I would like to do that but I'm guessing we can't afford it cap wise.

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01-16-2012, 01:47 PM
  #112
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You do not know that. Minnesota was one the best teams for 30-35 games.
That was a total mirage, as their recent 2-9-4 record indicates. It's a poorly constructed team that is now missing 3 of their top-6 forwards. That pick could very well end up in the top-10 by seasons end, which is good enough value to move Danny for, all things considered.

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Same goes for Dallas.
Dallas has actual talent and, if they traded for Briere, would have even more talent. They're a playoff team with Briere on that roster. I wouldn't trade Danny there for a 1st.
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If you do not mind trading Briere regardless of his value and NMC/NTC you should really re-think your vote.
I didn't vote, because it's pretty obvious what the Flyers are going to try to do, regardless of what you or I think should be done. It's the same thing every team does in their position in the standings at the trade deadline.

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Because you know Briere is getting old, you know he is a bit overpaid, you know that his value is going down finally the most important you know that by the time our youngsters are ready to make real impact we won’t have decent defense and Briere will probably be too old to contribute
That may all be true, but if we can't get proper value for him, then I don't trade him. Should we just get rid of him for a bag pucks?

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That means you hypothetically agree with me. Even know you are trying to prove me wrong.
I'm not trying to prove anything. There's really nothing to prove. No team in the Flyers current position ever does what you are suggesting. It just doesn't happen.

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01-16-2012, 01:48 PM
  #113
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Right in the the thick of things.

We should probably give up.

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01-16-2012, 02:04 PM
  #114
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That was a total mirage, as their recent 2-9-4 record indicates. It's a poorly constructed team that is now missing 3 of their top-6 forwards. That pick could very well end up in the top-10 by seasons end, which is good enough value to move Danny for, all things considered.
Dallas has actual talent and, if they traded for Briere, would have even more talent. They're a playoff team with Briere on that roster. I wouldn't trade Danny there for a 1st.
So bascially you are ok with moving Danny, you just want a decent price. If it will be 1st round pick, seems like you will be fine with it.

And if let's say a 2nd round pick and NHL ready d-men are offered preferably with size, speeds, top 4 potential & right hand shot that we did not have since Éric Desjardins to make you real happy. Not prospects like Gus or Bourdon but someone a little better not much better but rather much rounded game a bit more raw potential. Not your top paring but let's say hmmm.. Sauer type, not Kurt but Michael. You would not mind that? Right?


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01-16-2012, 02:10 PM
  #115
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So bascially you ok to move Danny, you just want a decent price. If it will be 1st round pick, seems like you will be fine with it.
If I thought we could get a top-10 pick for Danny? Oh hell yes, that's great value, for all the reasons you listed. I'd hedge my bets that Minny keeps sliding, in that scenario.

It's a pipe dream though, because Minny ain't buying, and the Flyers aren't selling.

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And if let's say a 2nd round pick and NHL ready d-men are offered preferably with size, speeds, top 4 potential & right hand shot that we did not have since Éric Desjardins to make you real happy. Not prospects like like Gus or Bourdon but someone better. You would not mind that? Right?
No, I would not mind that but, I will pose the same question to you as I did to another poster: Who is offering up this young, high end stud for Danny Briere? It's another pipe dream.

You want to talk a realistic scenario? Trade Danny in the offseason for whatever, just to clear his cap hit, and then go after Suter hard. THAT makes sense on many levels. We keep Danny for the playoff run, gain his cap space in the offseason, and use it to sign a young stud Dman without giving up any assets. That is something that has a more realistic chance of happening, as opposed to the Flyers selling off veterans at the deadline, which is not the least bit rooted in reality.

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01-16-2012, 02:14 PM
  #116
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If I thought we could get a top-10 pick for Danny? Oh hell yes, that's great value, for all the reasons you listed. I'd hedge my bets that Minny keeps sliding, in that scenario.

It's a pipe dream though, because Minny ain't buying, and the Flyers aren't selling.
Ok, I need you back to earth now.


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You want to talk a realistic scenario? Trade Danny in the offseason for whatever, just to clear his cap hit, and then go after Suter hard. THAT makes sense on many levels. We keep Danny for the playoff run, gain his cap space in the offseason, and use it to sign a young stud Dman without giving up any assets. That is something that has a more realistic chance of happening, as opposed to the Flyers selling off veterans at the deadline, which is not the least bit rooted in reality.
Easy there. Who said anything about Suter? We may miss next year because of CBA or we may miss hlaf of the season. Maybe we won't miss any time at all. No one knows. Forget Suter.

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It's a pipe dream though, because Minny ain't buying, and the Flyers aren't selling.
Not necessarily. Briere is solid 50pts player and will average 4M real money for next 4 years (inluding this one). He is still clutch and some teams just might be interested in this type of player.

Might be a hell of a deal for some team. Right? Team with plenty of cap space.

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01-16-2012, 02:16 PM
  #117
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Ok, I need you back to earth now.
Fine, call me when you get here.


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Easy there. Who said anything about Suter? We may miss next year because of CBA or we may miss hlaf of the season. Maybe we won't miss any time at all. No one knows. Forget Suter.
And forget selling Briere for picks at the deadline.

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01-16-2012, 02:23 PM
  #118
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You guys remember that Danny has a full NMC and isn't going to leave Philly, right?

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01-16-2012, 02:23 PM
  #119
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Not necessarily. Briere is solid 50pts player and will average 4M real money for next 4 years (inluding this one). He is still clutch and some teams just might be interested in this type of player.

Might be a hell of a deal for some team. Right? Team with plenty of cap space.
For a team dropping like a stone like Minnesota? Seriously?

There is no chance the Wild deal anything of serious value for Briere. Have you not been paying attention to how they have played? They have TWO wins in 15 games, with a ****** roster that just got ****tier with Koivu out for at least a month.

You can scoff all you want, their 1st rounder has a very legit chance to be top-10 when all is said and done. A quick glance at their current roster and the standings makes that easy enough to see.

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01-16-2012, 02:41 PM
  #120
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Wow this nitroglycerin vs Shadow Flyer thread is awesome

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01-16-2012, 02:42 PM
  #121
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Ok for the hell of it:
1. Carle to Detroit for 1st round pick and conditional 3rd if he resigns Commodore for balance back.
2. Briere to Dallas for Niklas Grossman & Chiasson or Ritchie and conditional 2nd round pick if they pass 1st round.
3. Jagr to NYR for 2nd and conditional 3rd if they pass 2nd round. Hell maybe even for 1st round pick since it's Jagr.
4. Timonen to Van for Jensen and conditional 1st round pick if they reach SC finals. I love Timonen so I wish him nothing but the best. He is a warrior and he will do the job right. I want him to win SC. Nucks will be happy. Might overdid value.

Not perfect but I did it by team needs. Obviously, some cap moves will need to be made for team like Van.

Van wins the cup. Timonen retires.


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01-16-2012, 02:49 PM
  #122
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I don't get why you want us to sell of the team when we are 4 points out of 1st place?

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01-16-2012, 02:57 PM
  #123
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I don't get why you want us to sell of the team when we are 4 points out of 1st place?
Duh, because our window is closed...

Anyway, these unrealistic fantasy scenarios must be put on hold for now, as work calls. Everyone have a fine evening, even you nitro

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01-16-2012, 02:59 PM
  #124
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Duh, because our window is closed...

Anyway, these unrealistic fantasy scenarios must be put on hold for now, as work calls. Everyone have a fine evening, even you nitro
Ahh brah.. that's cold. I thought we agreed?

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01-16-2012, 03:25 PM
  #125
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You guys remember that Danny has a full NMC and isn't going to leave Philly, right?
Yeah, he'll never waive, so it's all moot. And even if he did, I don't think he'd ever go anywhere but home to Ottawa (he's from Hull, er, renamed Gatineau), which means they wouldn't have to give up anything for him.

Given that we can't trade Briere, Timonen or Hartnell (NMC/NTC), and we won't trade Jagr, we really don't have any old vets we can dish off to 'contenders' for picks/prospects even if we wanted to tank.

I agree we shouldn't pay TOO much for a guy like Gleason, but we don't know what the market is, just as we don't know all the buyers and sellers yet either.

As has been outlined in the Acquiring a D thread, there are many, many vet Dmen out there on expiring contracts who could help us in different ways.

Many playoff bound teams either don't need a Dman or don't have any cap room anyway.

I am usually in favour of doing deals earlier, but there might be more sellers the longer Homer waits, and a corresponding reduction in buyers, closer to the deadine.

Right now, there are only the bottom three teams in each conference who are approaching mathematical impossibility of making it: Carolina, NYI and Tampa in the east and Edm, Ana and Columbus in the West. Anaheim is making its usual late charge, but I don't think they can make up the gap in the time they have left. There are too many teams to pass.

If the bubble teams like Buffalo, Montreal, Winnipeg, Calgary and Phoenix stumble in the next few weeks, a couple of them might reasonably tank, which will mean Homer has more affordable options and fewer competitors.

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