HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Montreal Wins 4-1

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-16-2012, 09:44 AM
  #201
MathMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 17,255
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
It would be nice to see some evidence which supports this theory.
For all your evidence needs, behindthenet.ca is your friend.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...4+45+46+63+67#

Desharnais starts his shifts in the offensive zone in a 54.9% ratio relative to the defensive zone. Among Habs with 30+ GP, only Darche is higher.

Meanwhile Plekanec is at 42.7% which is very, very low.

Both numbers used to be worse, but Randy's constant changing of strategies means that the players have been used in various roles over the last 13 games, with DD having games without a single O-zone faceoff and Pleks without a D-zone faceoff (which is silly, frankly).

MathMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2012, 09:45 AM
  #202
Davebo
BeepBeep!
 
Davebo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,748
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverAlone View Post
Kids in Montreal suspended from elementary schools for spitting at other classmates.
That's super!

What's it have to do with hockey? Hockey players spit on the ice all game long.

Davebo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2012, 09:49 AM
  #203
Andy
Moderator
 
Andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,917
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
For all your evidence needs, behindthenet.ca is your friend.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...4+45+46+63+67#

Desharnais starts his shifts in the offensive zone in a 54.9% ratio relative to the defensive zone. Among Habs with 30+ GP, only Darche is higher.

Meanwhile Plekanec is at 42.7% which is very, very low.

Both numbers used to be worse, but Randy's constant changing of strategies means that the players have been used in various roles over the last 13 games, with DD having games without a single O-zone faceoff and Pleks without a D-zone faceoff (which is silly, frankly).
Is that stat for all situations or just 5 on 5? Because Desharnais plays the penalty kill so will naturally get some defensive zone faceoffs.

Andy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2012, 10:00 AM
  #204
MathMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 17,255
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Is that stat for all situations or just 5 on 5? Because Desharnais plays the penalty kill so will naturally get some defensive zone faceoffs.
Just 5-on-5. Special teams are counted separately (a good habit that analysts should use systematically).

MathMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2012, 10:08 AM
  #205
417
Registered User
 
417's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Haiti
Posts: 20,421
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davebo View Post
That's super!

What's it have to do with hockey? Hockey players spit on the ice all game long.
its only a problem when it's PK and the camera angle happens to catch him spitting within a 25 foot radius of an opposing player

417 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2012, 10:11 AM
  #206
Protest the Hero
Registered User
 
Protest the Hero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,383
vCash: 500
Everyone takes Chara and Lucic at their word, but they won't believe a word PK says.

Protest the Hero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2012, 11:24 AM
  #207
Duramarier
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 55
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
For all your evidence needs, behindthenet.ca is your friend.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...4+45+46+63+67#

Desharnais starts his shifts in the offensive zone in a 54.9% ratio relative to the defensive zone. Among Habs with 30+ GP, only Darche is higher.

Meanwhile Plekanec is at 42.7% which is very, very low.

Both numbers used to be worse, but Randy's constant changing of strategies means that the players have been used in various roles over the last 13 games, with DD having games without a single O-zone faceoff and Pleks without a D-zone faceoff (which is silly, frankly).
Without neutral zone number... The guy could started in offensive zone once, never in def.zone and all other times in neutral zone and your stats would say 100% off start.

Duramarier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2012, 12:23 PM
  #208
MathMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 17,255
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duramarier View Post
Without neutral zone number... The guy could started in offensive zone once, never in def.zone and all other times in neutral zone and your stats would say 100% off start.
The question is whether the guy takes a lot of offensive zone draws versus defensive zone draws, because it's a lot easier to get goals for and prevent goals against if you start far from your net most of the time. In practice, centers don't get as skewed a distribution as you propose.

MathMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2012, 12:33 PM
  #209
MasterDecoy
Carlos Danger
 
MasterDecoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Beijing
Posts: 12,368
vCash: 500
great game but, we can't even tank properly...

i wake up, check the score, "****, we won". watch the game. i giggle and cheer and smile like a little girl. playing and winning like that, it's a good feeling, but were not making the playoffs so what's the point... im confused...

by the way, anybody that say dd is expendable or not part of the future needs a lobotomy

MasterDecoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2012, 12:50 PM
  #210
WhiskeySeven
Bustchenyuk
 
WhiskeySeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,080
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
great game but, we can't even tank properly...

i wake up, check the score, "****, we won". watch the game. i giggle and cheer and smile like a little girl. playing and winning like that, it's a good feeling, but were not making the playoffs so what's the point... im confused...

by the way, anybody that say dd is expendable or not part of the future needs a lobotomy
A lot has been, and will continue to be said, about instilling a winning attitude. If we keep losing, what's to say that Price and Subban will want to re-sign? Or FA will want to join in?

WhiskeySeven is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2012, 12:54 PM
  #211
Et le But
Registered User
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 18,394
vCash: 500
I don't see us making the playoffs and am dreaming about the draft, but ending the season on a high note and having a good second half could do as much to help this team moving forward as a lotto pick.

Et le But is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2012, 01:00 PM
  #212
Agnostic
11 Stanley Cups
 
Agnostic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
I don't see us making the playoffs and am dreaming about the draft, but ending the season on a high note and having a good second half could do as much to help this team moving forward as a lotto pick.
This team needs talent injection more than self esteem.

Agnostic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2012, 01:07 PM
  #213
Lshap
Moderator
 
Lshap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,965
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
This team needs talent injection more than self esteem.
Finishing the season strong is the best example of talent injection. It means our existing players are improving and gelling. Not saying this precludes more moves and UFA's, but with all the developing young guys on our roster, it's like watching the beta version of the Habs sometimes...

Lshap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2012, 01:13 PM
  #214
Cyclones Rock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duramarier View Post
Without neutral zone number... The guy could started in offensive zone once, never in def.zone and all other times in neutral zone and your stats would say 100% off start.

This is a very valid point. If included-which they should be-it narrows the gap considerably.

But, a much better stat would be the number of points which were scored after neutral, offensive, or defensive zone face offs. That would paint a much truer picture. This abridged stat is of nebulous value, if any.

Cyclones Rock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2012, 01:15 PM
  #215
Cyclones Rock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
The question is whether the guy takes a lot of offensive zone draws versus defensive zone draws, because it's a lot easier to get goals for and prevent goals against if you start far from your net most of the time. In practice, centers don't get as skewed a distribution as you propose.
And what do you have to back this up?

Cyclones Rock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2012, 01:43 PM
  #216
SeriousHabs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,673
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
great game but, we can't even tank properly...

i wake up, check the score, "****, we won". watch the game. i giggle and cheer and smile like a little girl. playing and winning like that, it's a good feeling, but were not making the playoffs so what's the point... im confused... by the way, anybody that say dd is expendable or not part of the future needs a lobotomy
In short, management goals differ from players' goals. A guy like Kostitsyn couldn't care less about tanking. He is looking for a big new contract, and playing poorly is not the best way to go about it. Same for every single player on the team.

SeriousHabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2012, 01:49 PM
  #217
Lshap
Moderator
 
Lshap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,965
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeriousHabs View Post
In short, management goals differ from players' goals. A guy like Kostitsyn couldn't care less about tanking. He is looking for a big new contract, and playing poorly is not the best way to go about it. Same for every single player on the team.
NO player thinks of tanking when he's on the ice. For that 45 second shift, he's thinking of the puck and the play, not his salary or the standings.

Lshap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2012, 02:08 PM
  #218
SeriousHabs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,673
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
NO player thinks of tanking when he's on the ice. For that 45 second shift, he's thinking of the puck and the play, not his salary or the standings.
Gomez thinks about his salary.

SeriousHabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2012, 02:22 PM
  #219
Lshap
Moderator
 
Lshap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,965
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeriousHabs View Post
Gomez thinks about his salary.
Actually, everyone BUT Gomez thinks of his salary.

Lshap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2012, 02:43 PM
  #220
Kriss E
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 26,587
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
This is a very valid point. If included-which they should be-it narrows the gap considerably.

But, a much better stat would be the number of points which were scored after neutral, offensive, or defensive zone face offs. That would paint a much truer picture. This abridged stat is of nebulous value, if any.
Point is to show the percentage of their own time each player STARTS in the offensive zone as opposed to the defensive one. In other words, put in a more offensive role, which, logically, should increase their personal offensive output.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2012, 02:52 PM
  #221
MathMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 17,255
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
This is a very valid point. If included-which they should be-it narrows the gap considerably.
Why would it? If Pleks' offense to defense distribution is 5 to 10 and DD's is 10 to 5, the ratio between the two will be the same regardless of whether there's zero, five, ten, or one million neutral zone faceoffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
This abridged stat is of nebulous value, if any.
The differential in zone starts reflect directly on puck possession and, from there, on scoring chances and goals.

Besides, doesn't it intuitively make sense that starting in the defensive zone a lot is harder than starting in the offensive zone a lot?

MathMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2012, 02:57 PM
  #222
MathMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 17,255
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
And what do you have to back this up?
Assuming it is even relevant, do you honestly think that centers often take the vast majority of their faceoffs in the neutral zone?

Take last night's game. There were 18 neutral-zone faceoffs, 14 in the Rangers' zone, 21 in the Habs' zone. No player in the game took more neutral-zone faceoffs than other types.

MathMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2012, 05:22 PM
  #223
habsjunkie2*
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,865
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Same here. It's funny how he leaves and credible insiders are starting to comment on his attitude issues(McGuire and McKenzie mentioned this).
Funny that McGuire is credible when he agrees, a ****** when he's critical.

habsjunkie2* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2012, 05:29 PM
  #224
FlyingKostitsyn
Registered User
 
FlyingKostitsyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Quebec
Country: Australia
Posts: 8,157
vCash: 827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
Finishing the season strong is the best example of talent injection. It means our existing players are improving and gelling. Not saying this precludes more moves and UFA's, but with all the developing young guys on our roster, it's like watching the beta version of the Habs sometimes...
The Leafs have missed the playoffs for almost a decade with strong season finish almost every year... I don't know if it really helps.

FlyingKostitsyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2012, 05:31 PM
  #225
Andy
Moderator
 
Andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,917
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Funny that McGuire is credible when he agrees, a ****** when he's critical.
Disagreeing with his criticism and talking about inside info is two different things.

Saying that he's heard of Cammalleri's attitude is different from saying on one day "Martin is smart for benching Laraque because he's been useless" and then the next day go on the radio and say "Martin is a bad coach for having benched Laraque because Jassen ran Price" is two different things. I hate McGuire for the latter, always flip flopping his opinion.

Also, his info has overlapped with that of McKenzie, Damphousse, Brunet who all said the exact same thing of Cammalleri.

Andy is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:14 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.